Sony Introduces UDP-X1000ES Ultra HD Blu-ray Player at CEDIA 2016 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 12:30 PM
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Sony only released this to make Oppo fan boys snoot, get red faced, and jump up and down
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post #32 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 12:47 PM
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Another thought is that CEDIA is a lot more focused on the CI market. Perhaps they will have another UHD BD player(s) at CES in a couple of months?

As for price, my first DVD (one of the first on the market and the first from Sony in the 90's) was $1,000. With AV world inflation ( I.e. totally unrelated to reality) that would be something like $3k nowadays. So if this is in the same rumored price range as the upcoming Oppo's ($1,000-$1,500), it's not unprecedented or alone in that price range and may offer some features that the Oppo may lack. My current Sony BDP-S790 has more streaming features built in than Oppo offers for instance.

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post #33 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 01:15 PM
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Will someone please come out with a decent all in one!
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And no weird configured outputs that work only with, maybe 3%, of the input configurations!

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post #34 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDailey View Post
Sony only released this to make Oppo fan boys snoot, get red faced, and jump up and down


I would jump up and down... but it's only Sony. They make nice low end players now.


In my opinion, Oppo will come out with a similar player to the ones they have now, with HDMI inputs to allow processing and upscaling as needed, two HDMI outs, analog outputs, excellent codec support and video file support, Darbee processing and more. Add great support, you have an excellent product.


There's my Oppo fanboy cred.


Another thing that will help is that they'll be available to the general public , not just to installers if it fits your need and the price is right.

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Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post
Another thought is that CEDIA is a lot more focused on the CI market. Perhaps they will have anothe UHD BD player at CES in a couple of months?

As for price, my first DVD (one of the first on the market and the first from Sony in the 90's) was $1,000. With AV worked inflation that would be something like $3k nowadays. So if this is in the same rumored price range as the upcoming Oppo's ($1,000-$1,500) it's not unprecedented or alone in that price range.


I'd expect the player without the high end analog processing to be about 600. Just my expectation and hope, but let's see how it goes.
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post #35 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 01:22 PM
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Its weird to see Sony taking a backseat on 4k bluray... I remember them being in the forefront when Bluray first came out and now they are like

Im also surprised no word has come from Oppo on their 4k players... I have a bad feeling that when they do release their entry level player its going to start at $1k

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post #36 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 01:37 PM
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I don't see what everybody's so worked up about...seems like people posting in this thread are just looking for a reason to hate Sony. This is their first UHD player, and we don't know the price yet. But did anybody really think a first-gen Sony disc-spinner would be cheap? Panasonic's player is pretty rich at $700 and I don't see that getting any share of the vitriol towards this Sony. No doubt that this player will be excellent in build and backed by the long ES warranty. The design is a bit polarizing, but it looks like their current UHP-H1 -- which is surprisingly dense and well-built in person. Personally, I prefer the aesthetic of the Panasonic. I have owned a few Sony ES BDPs (S5000ES. S1000ES, S1700ES) and they've all been great players. For those who want an inexpensive player, they're already available from Samsung, Philips, and Microsoft. Like mentioned above, CEDIA is a show geared completely towards the CI market. It wouldn't surprise me if we saw some entry-level players announced at CES '17.

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post #37 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 02:05 PM
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After doing a little reading, it appears that all the new Sony receivers have 7 amps although the STR-ZA3100ES and STR-ZA2100ES can decode 9 channels. The existing 5000 appears to be the only one that can natively support 7.1.2 or 5.1.4 Dolby configurations.

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post #38 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 02:45 PM
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So this isn't a shock to me. Read an article a while ago about this being the main motivation for no UHD blu ray on PS Pro.......poor form.
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post #39 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 03:49 PM
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well I guess we all know why Sony didn't want to put a UHD 4k blu ray player in the ps4 pro now!
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post #40 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post
I would jump up and down... but it's only Sony. They make nice low end players now.


In my opinion, Oppo will come out with a similar player to the ones they have now, with HDMI inputs to allow processing and upscaling as needed, two HDMI outs, analog outputs, excellent codec support and video file support, Darbee processing and more. Add great support, you have an excellent product.


There's my Oppo fanboy cred.


Another thing that will help is that they'll be available to the general public , not just to installers if it fits your need and the price is right.





I'd expect the player without the high end analog processing to be about 600. Just my expectation and hope, but let's see how it goes.
Oppo showed off it's new UHD today - the 203 - with NO Darbee...
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post #41 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 08:32 PM
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With oppo coming out 3-5 months sooner and only $499, this Sony is pretty much DOA.
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post #42 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it will have to compete with the already excellent Panasonic UB900 which has a 6 month+ head start, shipping now in the US.
The Panasonic has fewer features than the Sony. Sony is competing with the Oppo.

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post #43 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by puddy77 View Post
As far as I know, there are no movies with rec.2020 color. But off the top of my head, the Shout Factory Imax movies have both SDR and HDR versions on the disc. The German version of Texas Chainsaw Massacre is SDR only. Possibly some other German discs of old remastered obscure movies.
Also, the two IMAX Extreme UHD Blu-ray sets. They have no HDR grading.
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post #44 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdeyoung View Post
Its weird to see Sony taking a backseat on 4k bluray... I remember them being in the forefront when Bluray first came out and now they are like

Im also surprised no word has come from Oppo on their 4k players... I have a bad feeling that when they do release their entry level player its going to start at $1k
Oppo said they were replacing their universal player line up with similarly priced models that added UHD Blu-ray playback. They aren't jacking up their prices much or at all.
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post #45 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
With oppo coming out 3-5 months sooner and only $499, this Sony is pretty much DOA.
Looks like I might be upgrading to an Oppo one of these days. Though, only when they add Dolby Vision.
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post #46 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 09:25 PM
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sony sony, would never learn
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post #47 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Will someone please come out with a decent all in one!
Dual outputs, all the current audio codecs, and able to play Lucy and Oblivion! UHD 4K Player.
And no weird configured outputs that work only with, maybe 3%, of the input configurations!
Panasonic has it.
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post #48 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Panasonic has it.
It's not a universal player. No SA-CD disc playback, no DVD-Audio disc playback. Both the Sony and the Oppo will be universal, though Oppo will probably have more file format support.

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post #49 of 66 Old 09-15-2016, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
It's not a universal player. No SA-CD disc playback, no DVD-Audio disc playback. Both the Sony and the Oppo will be universal, though Oppo will probably have more file format support.
I agree but:

The OP didnt ask for universal. The panasonic does what the OP asks for.

(The sony won't do DVD-A.)
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post #50 of 66 Old 09-16-2016, 04:22 AM
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By putting bluray into PS3 sony enabled a huge mass market to help bluray get market penetration, so what's up with UHDBR?

There's gotta be more to this UHDRB story, like it really-really is not ready for prime time, or surely they'd release it into their PS4-pro, why not do that? That would have been a huge enabler for disc buying, now UHDBR will go the way of the do-do bird.

I'm staying away from UHDBR and advise others to do same till 2018, yep skip 2016/2017, there's too much happening behind the scenes, who needs to buy new stuff and have it old within 1 year?

For now I truly see UHDBR as this, if you believe differently prove me wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank714 View Post
With so many things that apparently can go wrong properly connecting a UHD BD player to a 4K viewing device, esecially if it's a 4K Sony front projector, such a consideration might not be that unwise.


For anybody else you can get yourself a Playstation 4 Pro - wait a minute, it doesn't come with a UHD BD drive...
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Along with the various debacles at Sony Studios this just takes the cake.

They're a bunch of flipp'n morons.
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Originally Posted by wiyosaya View Post
I have to agree. Betamax, SACD, now this? What else? Give me a 4K Blu-ray solution for my HTPC. That I will buy, but this and its surely exorbitant cost, I'll pass. My AVR does up to 5.6 MHz DSD; while it is not 11.2 MHz DSD like this player, it is good enough for me considering that from my viewpoint, anyway, commercially available DSD files are mostly 2.8 MHz so far.

It seems like Sony is attempting to return to the days when it actually was a leader in some areas of technology; however, they lost that several years back and have not yet recovered - IMO.
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Not having Samsung and Sony on their side pretty much doomed Dolby Vision at the consumer side IMO. I would say Disney could have changed that, but with HDR10 being a required spec for Ultra HD I think Dolby Vision at least for the homes goose is cooked as anything but a niche product. And with the push by Samsung to include dynamic metadata to HDR10 sure makes it look like Samsung and Sony don't want to pay the licensing fees for what seems to be a fairly similar product.

But I agree with you on it looking like Sony wants to kill physical media, which is a goofy front to make for the only major electronics manufacturer that is connected in some part to a major studio. Sony announcing an ES custom installer player as their only player right now? Wow. Hopefully something very soon will be announced bySoy for the mainstream consumer who is still particular about quality. But this is discouraging. At least now we know why they didn't include in PS4 Pro. They want to separate people from their $$$$ for way more then $400 to get into 4K UltraHD.

And I agree with the poster above, the bed liner finish is a little ugly.
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post #51 of 66 Old 09-16-2016, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by New24K View Post
Oppo showed off it's new UHD today - the 203 - with NO Darbee...
That follows their current lines:
  • 103 - first model of the 10X - simplest, no darbee
  • 103D - more features, Darbee (100 added to price)
  • 105 - high quality analog, no darbee
  • 105D - high quality analog, darbee

If the price noted is true, then they are keeping their current price structure. The Darbee / DV disk features will probably be added later if they follow what they've done before.
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post #52 of 66 Old 09-16-2016, 09:54 AM
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It's almost like sony has just given up. It sure seems like everything they are doing is really dumb in the last 6 months... Is it me? or it's honestly seems like they are trying to fail. Once the oppo comes out, no one will buy the Sony, it's like they just wasted a bunch of money on nothing.
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post #53 of 66 Old 09-16-2016, 10:43 AM
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Can you also fix the numerous discs it has difficulty playing...and the unbearable loading times?
Well, unfortunately I cannot. I keep trying to convince M$ that they are doing things incorrectly in many other circumstances, but it appears to almost always fall on deaf ears.

My gaming solution is a mostly dedicated PC, but as this group probably knows, there are no UHDBR solutions for PC, yet, and it seems there are no indications that an UHDBR solution will ever appear unless you count this rumor from Cyberlink.
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post
I don't see what everybody's so worked up about...seems like people posting in this thread are just looking for a reason to hate Sony.
Personally, I would love to like Sony again. Their ES line was among the best years ago, but dropping it displeased a lot of Sony ES fans, then bringing it back did little, IMO, to return the ES line to what it used to be. Over the years, as I see it, Sony, having once been a technological leader and innovator, has made some poor decisions, and I personally do not think new product development has returned to that leadership position.

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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
By putting bluray into PS3 sony enabled a huge mass market to help bluray get market penetration, so what's up with UHDBR?

There's gotta be more to this UHDRB story, like it really-really is not ready for prime time, or surely they'd release it into their PS4-pro, why not do that? That would have been a huge enabler for disc buying, now UHDBR will go the way of the do-do bird.

I'm staying away from UHDBR and advise others to do same till 2018, yep skip 2016/2017, there's too much happening behind the scenes, who needs to buy new stuff and have it old within 1 year?

For now I truly see UHDBR as this, if you believe differently prove me wrong.
I have to agree with you on waiting. Nothing seems to be relatively safe for a longer lasting solution in the A/V world at this point except for, perhaps, speakers.

Looking back on the progression to HD, there were many people that jumped at lower resolution displays and probably ended up kicking themselves later because they did - unless, of course, they had lots of disposable income.

Perhaps there is something technology wise that is "wrong" with UHDBR at this point; however, I would think that such problems would have already shown up with the existing dedicated UHDBR players that are already on the market. I have not been following the stand-alone UHDBR player market closely because my preferred solution for UHDBR is one for HTPCs, so I cannot say whether such problems exist.

I cannot help thinking that it is about content providers wanting to further tighten their grip on their content, but as in the past, I think this is alienating those of us who buy and view our content legally.

There is one other demon in the woods, so to speak, and that is streaming. Everything seems to be moving in that direction, and YES, I do understand that the quality of streaming is nowhere near that of physical media.

Add them all up, and the sum of it all, IMO, easily applies to Sony.
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post #54 of 66 Old 09-16-2016, 12:36 PM
 
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Too bad about Dolby Vision not being supported on basically any player or any UHD Bluray yet.

Maybe in a couple years it'll pick up. Or on PC. That would be at least something. Player manufacturers probably decided, hey, few TVs and even fewer projectors can do more than 10-bit or 1000 nits natively so forget Dolby Vision for now. That's short-sighted but hey...capitalism. If you sell a niche feature that won't make a buck, right now, why do it?

If there were any UHD Blurays with extra Dolby Vision layers I guess we'd see more interest on the player side. Chicken vs egg.
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post #55 of 66 Old 09-16-2016, 02:41 PM
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no DV....DOA!
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post #56 of 66 Old 09-16-2016, 04:57 PM
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This afternoon the preview version of this player wouldn't play all the chapters of a Sony release Ghostbusters. The work around for the demo was to skip to the next chapter everytime it froze. THis was in the Sony show case demo theater.
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post #57 of 66 Old 09-16-2016, 05:41 PM
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Personally, I would love to like Sony again. Their ES line was among the best years ago, but dropping it displeased a lot of Sony ES fans, then bringing it back did little, IMO, to return the ES line to what it used to be. Over the years, as I see it, Sony, having once been a technological leader and innovator, has made some poor decisions, and I personally do not think new product development has returned to that leadership position.

The premium CE space can be a tough one to compete in, but I think Sony's new ES stuff is pretty fantastic. I can speak from experience. I own both the TA-A1ES in my 2-channel setup and the STR-ZA5000ES in my HT setup, and they are both superb in terms of fit/finish and sound quality (especially the integrated amp). I have been extremely satisfied with them, plus the other couple of Hi-Res collection pieces I own, and am excited to try their new Signature series headphones/amp they announced a couple weeks ago. Their new ES audio stuff like their ES/AR speakers seem to garner great reviews although I've never heard them.

I think the Sony of today is much stronger in terms of innovation, performance, and product mix than the Sony of 5 years ago.

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post #58 of 66 Old 09-16-2016, 08:30 PM
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From what I hear dealers make little margin on Oppo, so any company displaying at a custom install show for DEALERS will show them what they want to sell. And they want to sell is not necessarily what we want as regular consumers. Sony has like 4 or so bd players, do you really think they will only have one uhd player? Perhaps we should all wait till the CONSUMER audio show in January and till reviews come out before bashing something that doesn't come out till next year?
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post #59 of 66 Old 09-17-2016, 06:51 AM
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Is that 2 hdmi? The one labeled 2 looks like a dummie covered with some sort of tape.


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It will come as firmware upgrade later..
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post #60 of 66 Old 09-17-2016, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
By putting bluray into PS3 sony enabled a huge mass market to help bluray get market penetration, so what's up with UHDBR?

There's gotta be more to this UHDRB story, like it really-really is not ready for prime time, or surely they'd release it into their PS4-pro, why not do that? That would have been a huge enabler for disc buying, now UHDBR will go the way of the do-do bird.

I'm staying away from UHDBR and advise others to do same till 2018, yep skip 2016/2017, there's too much happening behind the scenes, who needs to buy new stuff and have it old within 1 year?

For now I truly see UHDBR as this, if you believe differently prove me wrong.

I think that's an apples and oranges comparison. Remember, when it came to BD there was a format war going on. One where Sony was heavily invested in BD. They put a BD player in the PS3 at a loss, losing almost $3 billion due to player sales with the hope of making up the money in the sale of games and movies. That would only work if HD-DVD died. It did. Sony won and made money as a result. Now fast forward to UHD. While yes, Sony is interested, it's "not their horse" like it was with BD. They might want it to succeed, but the success of the company doesn't depend on it like it did with BD. As a result they can be more cautious and methodical. On top of that, if Sony does have a horse in the race, they've spent a lot more backing streaming than UHD BD. They're probably producing discs an players to hedge their bets, but honestly, I doubt this time around they really care if UHD BD dies or not. However, if BD had died, Sony would probably be a very different company today. Who knows what their CE business would look like.

So in short, why did they include a BD player in the PS3? They absolutely had to. Why didn't they include one in the PS4? Because they have absolutely no compelling reason to.

As for why MS put one in the Xbox One (someone could easily say they had no reason to either), well now they can say they have something that the PS4 doesn't. Unlike the rest of us, I'm sure MS and Sony are well aware of each others plans ahead of time due to corporate research and spying that goes on all the time. MS may have just realized they could have a slight leg-up on Sony by including it. On top of that, maybe they felt like there were so many PS3 sales for the BD player that they could capitalize on that for UHD BD. Who knows, but the fact remains, Sony has no vested interest in *forcing* UHD BD to succeed, whereas with BD it was the lifeblood of their CE business.

I should also add, I've had my UHD BD Samsung since the day it came out and I love it. If the technology "isn't ready" or "there is something wrong" let me just say, I've had not one single problem. The movies look stunning and I'm super happy. Much happier than I was with my gen 1 DVD, gen 1 HD-DVD, or gen 1 BD players which were all horrible players by comparison. While I haven't gotten my hands on this Sony player, I'm sure it will be terrific as well.

TV: Samsung 55JS9000 & 50HU8550 w/ SEK-3500
Receiver: Denon X7200WA
Blu-Ray: Samsung UBD-K8500
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