Bose Spies on Users with Wireless App According to Class Action Lawsuit - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 52 Old 04-19-2017, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Bose Spies on Users with Wireless App According to Class Action Lawsuit

A lawsuit filed in Chicago yesterday alleges that Bose collects private data from users of its wireless app and sells it without user permission. Click the link to read more: Bose Wireless Headphones Spy on Users Says Class Action Lawsuit
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post #2 of 52 Old 04-19-2017, 09:23 PM
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Wow!!

That's pretty underhanded of Bose, if this turns out to be true. I bet they didn't even offer an opt out clause and it sure sounds like they failed to disclose the existence of this data mining operation (unless it was buried in a 30-page End User Licensing Agreement in a 6 point font next to the "Continue" button on the software download page). Worse yet, it wasn't even for internal marketing, but was instead purely an additional income stream. This sort of activity should not be legal without the customer's explicit consent! It is discouraging to see so many businesses that are willing to sell their integrity to the highest bidder in their quest to increase their income. If this turns out to be true, this sort of activity is a clear indicator of decay at the highest levels of Bose management....

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post #3 of 52 Old 04-20-2017, 08:53 AM
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this is disturbing: I have the QC 35 and have used the app

and to think I paid a premium to Bose so they could hack me

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post #4 of 52 Old 04-20-2017, 11:50 AM
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I'm not really surprise and expect this behaviour from all companies.

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post #5 of 52 Old 04-20-2017, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post
Wow!!

That's pretty underhanded of Bose, if this turns out to be true. I bet they didn't even offer an opt out clause and it sure sounds like they failed to disclose the existence of this data mining operation (unless it was buried in a 30-page End User Licensing Agreement in a 6 point font next to the "Continue" button on the software download page). Worse yet, it wasn't even for internal marketing, but was instead purely an additional income stream. This sort of activity should not be legal without the customer's explicit consent! It is discouraging to see so many businesses that are willing to sell their integrity to the highest bidder in their quest to increase their income. If this turns out to be true, this sort of activity is a clear indicator of decay at the highest levels of Bose management....

Mike
May guess is loads of companies are doing this...also, I wonder how Bose got caught? The average person would never know this was happening...maybe some rogue employee spilled the beans?
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post #6 of 52 Old 04-21-2017, 01:03 AM
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I'm not really surprise and expect this behaviour from all companies.
Exactly, you can not trust any of them. This reminds of when Sony installed illegal rootkits on millions of computers that modified the OS to prevent copying and also sent back user's private information to Sony.
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post #7 of 52 Old 04-21-2017, 01:16 AM
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Court clogger. This is the modern version on ambulance chasing for attorneys, I fear that more than anything. Class action raises prices on consumers in the long run. AKA Your wallet.

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post #8 of 52 Old 04-21-2017, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Court clogger. This is the modern version on ambulance chasing for attorneys, I fear that more than anything. Class action raises prices on consumers in the long run. AKA Your wallet.
Class action is also one of the mechanisms that polices capitalist economies. Also, don't gigantic salaries and bonuses and ill-conceived ad campaigns also raise costs? Where does Bose get all the money it hands to the NFL? Consumers' pockets, that's where. Plus sometimes luxury goods are simply priced high so they can be perceived as luxury goods, period. That raises costs, too.

Yes, there are plenty of firms out there hunting for class action lawsuits to file. Indeed, if a player in the high-end super-expensive audio cable industry were large and profitable enough, it would draw their attention too. I know because I asked. Anywhere a lawyer sees a consumer being defrauded, the first question is "how can I profit off of this?" That's the way it works. The sharks are circling.

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post #9 of 52 Old 04-22-2017, 07:43 AM
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Class action is also one of the mechanisms that polices capitalist economies. Also, don't gigantic salaries and bonuses and ill-conceived ad campaigns also raise costs? Where does Bose get all the money it hands to the NFL? Consumers' pockets, that's where. Plus sometimes luxury goods are simply priced high so they can be perceived as luxury goods, period. That raises costs, too.
Class action lawsuits are almost always a waste of time.

If this is like the vast majority of them, about three years from now, Bose will settle without admitting to any wrongdoing, the attorneys will get $40 million, and the class members will get a $10 coupon good for a future Bose purchase.
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post #10 of 52 Old 04-22-2017, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Class action lawsuits are almost always a waste of time.

If this is like the vast majority of them, about three years from now, Bose will settle without admitting to any wrongdoing, the attorneys will get $40 million, and the class members will get a $10 coupon good for a future Bose purchase.
Yeah typically. I once owned a GMC Jimmy, so I know all about class action lawsuits and how they work out.

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post #11 of 52 Old 04-22-2017, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Fizban19 View Post
May guess is loads of companies are doing this...also, I wonder how Bose got caught? The average person would never know this was happening...maybe some rogue employee spilled the beans?
Or someone read the license agreement for the Bose app and used a packet analyser to analyse the data being sent over their network?
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post #12 of 52 Old 04-23-2017, 07:53 AM
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Or someone read the license agreement for the Bose app and used a packet analyser to analyse the data being sent over their network?


Wireshark is free and easy to use.


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post #13 of 52 Old 05-09-2017, 02:21 PM
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Glad I never got Bose.
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post #14 of 52 Old 05-17-2017, 04:17 AM
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Vizio just paid a big fine for doing exactly the same thing. In my opinion it is unfortunate that no jail time was attached to the settlement, but that's just me.

Condemning all attorneys who file class action lawsuits, because some attorneys profit more than their clients is not an accurate depiction of the private legal system. Neither is it accurate to say that all corporations sell out their customers.

The other mechanism for stopping unfair practices by corporations is federal and state government action. While it may be tempting to form a hasty generalization that all government action is useless, it is probably also not accurate.

The internet is still in its infancy. The rules are still being made. There seems to be a consensus that customers should have a right to privacy. Corporations who do not honor the privilege given to them by their constituents should have their behavior altered. It will not work to say "you are a naughty corporation; now you play fair", and they will magically come in line.

Corporations exist to make a profit. Action which affects their bottom line is one very effective way to alter their behavior. Bringing the full weight of the public and private legal system to bear will probably get their attention. Take away their money and things will change. Again I lament the fact that more bad actors are not in jail.

It is probably not realistic to expect that people who do the hard work of bringing evidence against the corporations will do that work pro bono or to think that government workers will volunteer their time. People may quibble over what is considered a reasonable profit for attorneys or they may point out problems with the government actions, but to condemn the entire process without proposing workable alternatives is counter productive.

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post #15 of 52 Old 05-17-2017, 10:24 AM
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The worse part of this would be the embarrassment suffered by everyone finding out I had Bose products.
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post #16 of 52 Old 05-21-2017, 10:18 AM
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I simply figure that anything with any sort of microphone or camera or network interconnectivity is doing this, call me paranoid, call it 1984, but it's the modern reality in my mind.
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Soon all companies will do this.
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post #18 of 52 Old 06-15-2017, 06:33 PM
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As if their products weren't expensive enough...shame
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post #19 of 52 Old 07-01-2017, 12:49 PM
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Yet another reason not to buy Bose and any other brand that trys to do the same thing!

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post #20 of 52 Old 07-01-2017, 01:33 PM
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Fake news...
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It seems like these spying techniques are becoming more and more invisible and customers can't detach themselves from many devices today. Personally, I won't buy every Tech gadget I desire to acquire.
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post #22 of 52 Old 09-30-2017, 01:55 PM
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Fake news...

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post #23 of 52 Old 12-28-2017, 02:46 PM
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Sonos and Bose Smart Speakers Can Be Hacked (Report)


https://www.tomsguide.com/us/sonos-b...ews-26304.html

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post #24 of 52 Old 12-28-2017, 06:59 PM
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Of course this is only true if your devices sit directly on the Internet or the hacker is already on your LAN; otherwise, if your router does NAT (as virtually all do), it's not an issue.
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post #25 of 52 Old 12-30-2017, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
Of course this is only true if your devices sit directly on the Internet or the hacker is already on your LAN; otherwise, if your router does NAT (as virtually all do), it's not an issue.
The problem is, there are quite a few routers out there that come preconfigured to allow that direct access. They open ports that aren't needed to be open (Linksys, for example, used to leave the IDENT port wide open on the off chance your DSL connection needed it that way). Unless a user knows this, they have no way of knowing if they are vulnerable.

Plus, sometimes people get bad advice on the internet when their device won't connect. People will tell them to create tunnels or static routes to devices that effectively place the device outside the firewall.

While those conditions aren't technically an issue with the device, the fact that those conditions can leave those devices vulnerable still is something of concern. It's possible for devices to sit on the open internet and not be easily vulnerable to breaches if properly secured.

Devices that connect to the internet in any way should always be designed to protect even those that don't fully understand them. That's something too many manufacturers fail to do in the increasing push to create IOT devices.
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post #26 of 52 Old 01-03-2018, 06:49 AM
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It's shameful - very shameful, however, what do you think Google does? It collects data not from just the website searches, but also when you use your computer without using Google search. Additionally, it collects data from all its apps, from maps to youtube and everything in between. Any devices that you use that run on Android (TV's included) collect such data. Google then is able to collate this data to form a big picture about you. This collected data will exist forever, subjected to newer methods of data mining as they evolve. Same goes for Facebook, Apple, and a ton of other companies. Unfortunately this is the new reality.....

https://privacy.google.com/your-data.html
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz View Post
Sonos and Bose Smart Speakers Can Be Hacked (Report)


https://www.tomsguide.com/us/sonos-b...ews-26304.html
Smart devices are "smart" for their manufacturers, not their new owners. They "leak" excessive amounts of confidential data without the owner of the device ever knowing.

I prefer old school IR controlled devices vs the IP connected ones but those are getting harder to find now a days.
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post #28 of 52 Old 01-03-2018, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Devices that connect to the internet in any way should always be designed to protect even those that don't fully understand them. That's something too many manufacturers fail to do in the increasing push to create IOT devices.
Security isn't a concern for the manufacturers, especially at the design stage - its usually an afterthought. Additionally, the price pressure of being in a competitive market adds to this blatant ignoring of security. A lot of IoT devices use a $5, linux based chip to become "smart" with little to no scope of being comprehensively secured.

I think users need to be prudent about such devices and try to avoid them. However if one does use such devices, be sure to not include any sensitive information, use unique log-in data and put such devices on a separate(Guest) network than your primary network that you use for activities such as banking and official work. VPN that network out to a European node if possible (they have better laws than in the US).
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post #29 of 52 Old 01-03-2018, 01:40 PM
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Why would you even purchase anything Bose? No highs no low's...Must be Bose...

Anything wireless probably does this. I cringe when I see people having Google assistant in their homes or any of those devices.
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post #30 of 52 Old 01-03-2018, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starlights View Post
It's shameful - very shameful, however, what do you think Google does? It collects data not from just the website searches, but also when you use your computer without using Google search. Additionally, it collects data from all its apps, from maps to youtube and everything in between. Any devices that you use that run on Android (TV's included) collect such data. Google then is able to collate this data to form a big picture about you. This collected data will exist forever, subjected to newer methods of data mining as they evolve. Same goes for Facebook, Apple, and a ton of other companies. Unfortunately this is the new reality.....

https://privacy.google.com/your-data.html
Which I actually am quite happy about; I enjoy receiving targeted rather than random ads, and the more information they have, the better the targeting.

I in fact even answer telephone marketing surveys for just this reason; ideally I would see ads that say "It's been two weeks since you last visited your local grocer, are you low on Diet Mountain Dew?"

Yes, I'm serious.
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