Is OLED Burn-In a Big Problem? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JLaud25 View Post
and that 'evidence' is not evident of mixed usage in a practical scenario, so im not paying heed to it, i never run ad loops or news channels more than a hour in one viewing session.

Have you been in South Korea? Looks like you were invited for coffee to Suwon by a certain company
Yeah I was there, indeed I just landed an hour ago in NYC.... and what I was doing is my own business, but feel free to speculate if it makes your Sunday more exciting.

As for the airport TVs, just saying what I saw. A bunch of ruined 2018 OLEDs. Some, very severe issues.

As you noted not typical home use, so feel free to ignore.

Others may see it as akin to accelerated testing on a sizable sample of screens and then note the correlation with what rtings is seeing.

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post #32 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 09:32 AM
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When we get reports from consumers who have used an OLED TV like a normal person would for a lengthy period of time, I think that will be much more instructive than TV's that are in airports or run 20 hours a day with CNN as the only programming material.
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post #33 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 09:33 AM
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Honestly, I feel the personal attacks towards Mark are most definitely too much (implying he's taking money from LCD producers, come on... ).
He's entitled to his opinion, he's seen displays used for advertising showing problems, he's reporting on it. There's nothing inherently bad with this.
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post #34 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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When we get reports from consumers who have used an OLED TV like a normal person would for a lengthy period of time, I think that will be much more instructive than TV's that are in airports or run 20 hours a day with CNN as the only programming material.
None of them were playing CNN and there was different programming on the TVs, some had kids programs, some had news, some had game shows.

They do run all day and night presumably, so the accelerated usage would be about 5X that of a 5 hour per day viewer and 10X or more over a "movie a day" viewing habit and in reality an even higher rate since these TVs are likely maxed out for brightness while a home TV would likely not be.

Anyhow, for whatever it's worth, this is how the TVs were presented at the airport. Not exactly keeping the fact they are OLED a secret...

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post #35 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 10:42 AM
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Is this an article sponsored by Samsung?

Well an OLED isn't an LCD, if they were we would use OLED as computer monitors everywhere due to the energy saving alone.

I have 0 burn in on my now 12month old 65" Panasonic. Also I don't use it as a computer monitor. I did that with my old Pioneer Kuro and surprise surprise it ended up with a burn in from the taskbar after a few years. Not that the burn in was visible if you actually watched anything on it besides a black screen.

I'm not the slightest worried that this OLED will let me down before it is time to upgrade to a MicroLED in 10 years time.

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post #36 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MajorTendonitis View Post
I’m starting to get pissed off at these networks who always have there logo displayed. Anything static is probably a bad thing .
I see some networks have gone to a white logo,and you can see threw it . Hopefully this helps . History channel has a red and yellow logo, so I quit watching it and cnn
Yes, I can’t understand why they don’t do something about that. Meanwhile you can use the aspect ratio and zoom the picture every half hour or so to help not have image retention.

For me personally, I think I will keep the ZT65 plasma for now. I like to see who will win between Dolby Vision and HDR10+ and what does 2019 have in store.

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post #37 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 11:21 AM
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If you break the panel in correctly you will not experience burn in. Just like the old Plasma days.
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post #38 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 11:44 AM
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What amazes me is the fact that some people will complain about anything. This site is FREE for people to peruse and enjoy the site at will. That being said if you don't agree with a post as a lot of you don't agree with my lists then move on if you cant have normal conversation with actual good debates. My 2 cents. I personally think this is VERY informative and enjoy the posts very much.

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post #39 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
None of them were playing CNN and there was different programming on the TVs, some had kids programs, some had news, some had game shows.

They do run all day and night presumably, so the accelerated usage would be about 5X that of a 5 hour per day viewer and 10X or more over a "movie a day" viewing habit and in reality an even higher rate since these TVs are likely maxed out for brightness while a home TV would likely not be.

Anyhow, for whatever it's worth, this is how the TVs were presented at the airport. Not exactly keeping the fact they are OLED a secret...
My reference to CNN playing 20 hours was to the rtings tests.

As you say, the airport TV's are probably maxed out for brightness, and who knows what other factors might distinguish the sets in the airport and the burn-in rates on sets with "normal" home viewing.

Mind you, I'm not arguing that the OLED sets will never experience burn-in. It just seems to me that we tend to get overly concerned about the problem based on some results with sets that don't seem to mirror normal viewing conditions. If my OLED does experience burn-in after two or three years of normal use, well, I guess then I'll say "bummer, I guess those folks who prognosticated there might be burn-in issues with normal TV viewing were right." But until then, I'm not losing any sleep over what rtings tests and TV's in airports show.

Besides, don't studies show that the majority of things people spend time worrying about don't happen?
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post #40 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Calibration to 100-120 nits assumes a dark room, just as movie theaters are dark. Running ISF 120-nit in a living room TV you watch with lights on or during the day looks better with more brightness and yes the calibration still matters as it will lock in the gamma and color.

But.nobody should be grudgingly admitting that a TV that's too dim for the ambient environment looks better than a brighter TV because it is not true.

And again that all completely ignores HDR.
Agree with the earlier poster who pointed out that some people are jumping on Mark in somewhat disagreeable ways. This is a fun forum. We can disagree and jibe from time to time but we can do it in good humor. LED v. OLED, just like plasma v. OLED will always elicit passionate responses. But let's have fun with it.

My quick 2-cent follow up to Mark's reply to my post.

To me—and I stress to me only—a TV calibrated to 35fL will appear plenty bright even in a room that's less than properly light controlled. (Remember that, ignoring HDR, movie theaters in a completely light controlled environment, based on THX standards (and the light output capability of projectors), are calibrated to 14-16fL.)

But again, IMHO.

For SDR I've calibrated my OLED with a dark room setting (35fL) and a bright room setting (50fL). But strangely, I still find myself leaning towards the dark room setting even when there's ambient light. (Note, when I say ambient light I'm referring to lights on rather than the sun gunning through a window.) But once more, this is all IMHO.

How bright one likes their picture is subjective. I like mine a touch on the dark side because I personally feel that the art of cinematography lies in the shadow detail, the darks, rather than the opposite end. I guess that makes me more a Vermeer guy than a Van Gogh guy.

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post #41 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jwc1969 View Post
For SDR I've calibrated my OLED with a dark room setting (35fL) and a bright room setting (50fL). But strangely, I still find myself leaning towards the dark room setting even when there's ambient light.
Same here (although I have no idea what the foot lamberts are my dark and light room settings). Maybe I'm a Vermeer guy too. Who'd have thunk it?
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post #42 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 01:25 PM
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Didn't have any burn in on my LG 55EC9300 and no problems so far with my 55 C8..I vary my content so I'm confident I'll never have to deal with permanent burn in..Oh and I also used my 9300 and now my C8 as computer monitors and have no fear of burn in or even temporary image retention..that compensation cycle after 4 hours of use will take care of any temporary retention


Definitely an over blown issue IMO
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post #43 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Didn't have any burn in on my LG 55EC9300 and no problems so far with my 55 C8..I vary my content so I'm confident I'll never have to deal with permanent burn in..Oh and I also used my 9300 and now my C8 as computer monitors and have no fear of burn in or even temporary image retention..that compensation cycle after 4 hours of use will take care of any temporary retention


Definitely an over blown issue IMO
Sure, even if every single vote in the non-scientific poll I ran that indicated burn in occurred for 7% of respondents is accurate, it of course follows that 93% of respondents are reporting no burn in.
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post #44 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 02:19 PM
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Sure, even if every single vote in the non-scientific poll I ran that indicated burn in occurred is accurate, it of course follows that 84% of respondents are reporting no burn in.

I don't doubt burn in can happen but you really have to be trying to abuse your OLED to make it happen..like leaving it on pause for many hours on a game or keeping your TV on for days on end with CNN or Fox News on it..It's good though to make people aware of it so it won't happen to them though
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post #45 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 03:33 PM
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I’ve owned a 55B7A for 3 months and no burn in so far. I keep OLED light at 65 for SDR and 70 for HDR10 and Dolby Vision. As you can infer from my signature, I play a lot of games and no issues so far.

I think OLED burn in is a bit overplayed (especially by LG’s competitors) but it’s not a non-issue and OLED owners have to be a bit more careful.

Lastly, I’ve compared the high end QLEDs vs. the OLEDs and for my use, I prefer the better blacks, motion handling, and viewing angles of OLEDs. I encourage others to make the same comparison for themselves.

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post #46 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 08:10 PM
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That's the problem. There are so many different factors into burn-in that we cant really say someone's gripes aren't legitimate. For what it's worth, it has been proven to be a problem, just not for everyone. I don't think it's a smear campaign, but I can definitely see why someone would peeved after spending serious money on a tv that they can't use the way they want.
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post #47 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't doubt burn in can happen but you really have to be trying to abuse your OLED to make it happen..like leaving it on pause for many hours on a game or keeping your TV on for days on end with CNN or Fox News on it..It's good though to make people aware of it so it won't happen to them though
I must have been tired I forgot the poll was only 7%, which I wrote in the article, burn in total... not 16%. 16% was the one star review rate on Amazon.

Prior comments edited/corrected appropriately, I should have re-read my own post before I went off on that tangent.

7% is believable, if not scientific due to it being a public poll.

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post #48 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 10:19 PM
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It sucks that there's the uniformity panel lottery and also some kind of burn-in resistance panel lottery.

It's good that most don't have BI issues, but then you wonder if some just don't use their TV as much or don't notice it. Some run slides before they answer the survey, some don't. And yes, I'm sure some very heavy users checked with slides and found none, but along with picture settings and use, the user's diligence in checking before answering the survey is another variable.

Regarding the airport, it would be interesting if they turned them off for a few hours at 3am or something, but I guess RTings is already testing in a way that allows compensation cycles.
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post #49 of 467 Old 11-18-2018, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
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It sucks that there's the uniformity panel lottery and also some kind of burn-in resistance panel lottery.

It's good that most don't have BI issues, but then you wonder if some just don't use their TV as much or don't notice it. Some run slides before they answer the survey, some don't. And yes, I'm sure some very heavy users checked with slides and found none, but along with picture settings and use, the user's diligence in checking before answering the survey is another variable.

Regarding the airport, it would be interesting if they turned them off for a few hours at 3am or something, but I guess RTings is already testing in a way that allows compensation cycles.
It is a good question. It's hard to imagine an installation like that not having some sort of maintenance protocol in place, but I do not have that info. The arrival/departure boards of course have to be lit 24/7, but among the "TV" OLEDs I saw in the terminal, one was turned off, or had no signal, and another just showed a channel guide, while the rest had different loops of content playing.

Forgive the analogy, but IMO having an OLED with burn-in in the Seoul airport is like getting a bad Cheesesteak at the Philly airport. It's an point of pride thing and it should be avoided.
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post #50 of 467 Old 11-19-2018, 03:48 AM
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we have lots of good discussions on AVS about burn-in: we know that OLED's can exhibit burn-in from static logos, etc: it is the nature of an emissive display: and we know with a little care burn-in can be avoided (in a home theater environment)

but the airport shots seem out of place: the only thing they tell me is the folks who installed them in an airport with 24/7 service of static images did not know what they were doing

Honestly I think the airport shots should not be part of this discussion

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post #51 of 467 Old 11-19-2018, 05:38 AM
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Is OLED Burn-In a Big Problem?

Happy this thread was created. I forgot if I asked this but I’m close to purchasing the new Sony A9F. It’s cost an arm and a leg. So with that said I play Battlefield on console about an hour a day but otherwise I do watch a lot of varied content. This will be my first OLED so how safe will I be from burn-in?


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post #52 of 467 Old 11-19-2018, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Happy this thread was created. I forgot if I asked this but I’m close to purchasing the new Sony A9F. It’s cost an arm and a leg. So with that said I play Battlefield on console about an hour a day but otherwise I do watch a lot of varied content. This will be my first OLED so how safe will I be from burn-in?


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The crux of it is... it's not an issue if you don't let it be an issue. Varied content and normal usage can include games. Since you are going to play one specific game repeatedly, just keep an eye out for any signs of image retention. Because burn-in does not come out of nowehere... you'll see signs of retention in problem areas first and have plenty of time to react.

I peeked at a Battlefield forum thread on OLED and nobody was reporting issues.
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post #53 of 467 Old 11-19-2018, 06:06 AM
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Happy this thread was created. I forgot if I asked this but I’m close to purchasing the new Sony A9F. It’s cost an arm and a leg. So with that said I play Battlefield on console about an hour a day but otherwise I do watch a lot of varied content. This will be my first OLED so how safe will I be from burn-in?


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Gaming is why I swapped out my ZT60 (PDP) for a Sony 900E (LCD). As my 900E failed I am temporarily using the ZT again and it has a stupid good picture.
While an hour a day should be fine, things like levels come into play. As does the HUD and whatnot from the game itself. One thing is certain, during the return window, I would make sure to play Battlefield every day. Ultimately, depending on space as you are in NYC, the best solution might be to play games on a different display.

While no doubt many OLED owners here will tell you that they game often with no ill effects, the A9F is a mighty spendy display and IR/burn in is not covered. That said, when I purchased my ZT, Best Buy did actually cover burn in with their extended warranty so might be worth a look to see if the terms remain.

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post #54 of 467 Old 11-19-2018, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
The crux of it is... it's not an issue if you don't let it be an issue. Varied content and normal usage can include games. Since you are going to play one specific game repeatedly, just keep an eye out for any signs of image retention. Because burn-in does not come out of nowehere... you'll see signs of retention in problem areas first and have plenty of time to react.



I peeked at a Battlefield forum thread on OLED and nobody was reporting issues.


Thanks for the response! I’m waiting until CES to buy an OLED. I’ve read rumors about LG switching to top emissive OLED panels at least for 8K displays. Currently I have no interest in 8K but top emissive would mitigate burn in or so I’ve read. Do you know anything about this?


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post #55 of 467 Old 11-19-2018, 06:13 AM
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Gaming is why I swapped out my ZT60 (PDP) for a Sony 900E (LCD). As my 900E failed I am temporarily using the ZT again and it has a stupid good picture.

While an hour a day should be fine, things like levels come into play. As does the HUD and whatnot from the game itself. One thing is certain, during the return window, I would make sure to play Battlefield every day. Ultimately, depending on space as you are in NYC, the best solution might be to play games on a different display.



While no doubt many OLED owners here will tell you that they game often with no ill effects, the A9F is a mighty spendy display and IR/burn in is not covered. That said, when I purchased my ZT, Best Buy did actually cover burn in with their extended warranty so might be worth a look to see if the terms remain.


Yes, I’ve researched and BB extended warranty covers burn-in. They do charge a hefty amount just adding to the overall cost. :/
It’s an investment so I’m doing my research and taking my time to decide.
Thanks for the advice!


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post #56 of 467 Old 11-19-2018, 06:21 AM
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Yes, I’ve researched and BB extended warranty covers burn-in. They do charge a hefty amount just adding to the overall cost. :/
It’s an investment so I’m doing my research and taking my time to decide.
Thanks for the advice!


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I would absolutely add the extended warranty. While on the whole I agree that burn in is not a huge issue, it does happen. Much more liberating to not be so concerned knowing that worst case the display will be replaced.

Due to my 75900E failing just past a year, I am in a similar position to you. While I did purchase a Samsung to replace it, it has not been delivered. Using a plasma again is making me seriously consider OLED. Also making me consider standing pat.

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post #57 of 467 Old 11-19-2018, 06:46 AM
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BI is a topic most members do not want to talk about. They want to believe it is not a problem so badly, cause they own one. Every time I discuss it I am accused of being a paid Samsung plant. So I'm glad to see Mark being accused as well.

Folks love to point to their own Oleds as evidence BI is not a problem with them...but few have even 10,000 hours on them. Pretty much ridiculous to hold an Oled out with less hours as an example of prof it is not an issue in my opinion.

I see Oleds as way over priced right now. I am of the opinion that, while they do provide the best PQ available, they should be looked at similar to a BIC lighter...some what disposable, and priced accordingly. LGD is opening up a new factory for expanding mass production per my understanding. I think this will allow them to lower prices dramatically. Perhaps less than LCD's that generally offer long lifespans.

Hey Mark, the secretary just called. Wants us to report to Samsung headquarters as soon as possible. See you soon

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post #58 of 467 Old 11-19-2018, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
we have lots of good discussions on AVS about burn-in: we know that OLED's can exhibit burn-in from static logos, etc: it is the nature of an emissive display: and we know with a little care burn-in can be avoided (in a home theater environment)

but the airport shots seem out of place: the only thing they tell me is the folks who installed them in an airport with 24/7 service of static images did not know what they were doing

Honestly I think the airport shots should not be part of this discussion
TV manufacturers show off their products at airports. In fact LG installed 69 2018 OLEDs in januari 2018 at the airport. People seeing their products might be more importants than wether or not airport content will cause burn in. Other than that it seems pretty clear that folks at forums and pro sites know more about the OLED issues than LG does.
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post #59 of 467 Old 11-19-2018, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
TV manufacturers show off their products at airports. In fact LG installed 69 2018 OLEDs in januari 2018 at the airport. People seeing their products might be more importants than wether or not airport content will cause burn in. Other than that it seems pretty clear that folks at forums and pro sites know more about the OLED issues than LG does.
Sort of seems like that. I was at Target yesterday with a lady friend to pick up a cheap TV, and they had an Oled on display. Was on a demo loop and had BI so bad...I could not believe an LG rep had not come and replaced it.

But I'm sure LG and LGD are very well aware of the uneven wearing problems. They don't seem to care. They could easily change the demo loops to something like...maybe a 4~8 hour demo loop. Guess they are content as the pro reviewers always sing the PQ praises and...not having the tv very long of course...seldom comment on the uneven wearing issue. Or seem to choose to minimize the problem.

I believe if folks are willing to run them with low olight and color levels most of the time...except when it matters (company over to watch a movie). They could last for many years without uneven wearing issues. But few seem willing to do that.

Also there may be a limit to the lifespan...just sitting un-used. This 2013 Oled technical book says they only have a shelf life of around 10 years. Even unplugged and not used...the organic material breaks down. May have improved somewhat over the last 5 years, but still...


https://books.google.ca/books?id=vmV...page&q&f=false

Just another reason Oleds need to be priced much lower than LCD's...as folks start reporting problems as they run the hours/years up on them and the masses become aware of the uneven wearing issues with this technology.

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post #60 of 467 Old 11-19-2018, 08:54 AM
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I use a mix of movies, video games, and Windows PC usage on my LG C7 OLED. There's no obvious burn, but I am wary of it being an issue.

I don't see buying an LCD (or LED or Q-LED or whatever the marketing name being used is) as a great solution. It'd annoy me if I got burn on my OLED, but I'd still rather watch a burned OLED than a non-burned LCD.
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