First IMAX Enhanced Titles Now Available - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 142 Old 12-12-2018, 10:47 AM
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No HDR?
Extremely fine print, like trying to hide it. HDR10+
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post #32 of 142 Old 12-12-2018, 11:09 AM
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I assume the IMAX DTS-X Soundtrack will not work with my Denon AVR-X4300H?

The article here has no mention of my model (I assume since its 2017 and not 2018).
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...imax-enhanced/

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post #33 of 142 Old 12-12-2018, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by djkms View Post
I assume the IMAX DTS-X Soundtrack will not work with my Denon AVR-X4300H?

The article here has no mention of my model (I assume since its 2017 and not 2018).
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...imax-enhanced/
I read it as, no the IMAX version will not work, but the "standard" DTSX will work. That would be crazy if it reverted all the way back to 5.1 or whatever.
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post #34 of 142 Old 12-12-2018, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by klimo View Post
I read it as, no the IMAX version will not work, but the "standard" DTSX will work. That would be crazy if it reverted all the way back to 5.1 or whatever.
I think it's the same track. Units that have the 'upgraded' IMAX dts:X software will just be able to map the track differently to the speaker layout.

Really there's nothing special about IMAX dts:X other than being updated decoding software.
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post #35 of 142 Old 12-12-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by djkms View Post
I assume the IMAX DTS-X Soundtrack will not work with my Denon AVR-X4300H?

The article here has no mention of my model (I assume since its 2017 and not 2018).
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...imax-enhanced/
Non-IMAX components will definitely play the disc, but will just default to DTS:X (or whichever version of DTS the processor supports). I watched the disc on a yet-to-be-updated Marantz AV7705 and it definitely plays the 7.1.4 DTS:X mix. Sonically, I thought that mix sounded thinner than the IMAX enhanced version, but it was on a completely different system in a different room so very subjective.
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post #36 of 142 Old 12-12-2018, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by sciacca View Post
Non-IMAX components will definitely play the disc, but will just default to DTS:X (or whichever version of DTS the processor supports). I watched the disc on a yet-to-be-updated Marantz AV7705 and it definitely plays the 7.1.4 DTS:X mix. Sonically, I thought that mix sounded thinner than the IMAX enhanced version, but it was on a completely different system in a different room to very subjective.
Wouldn't be surprised if there's a bass boost in the 'enhanced' mix when decoded with the updated hardware. They'll never admit it though.
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post #37 of 142 Old 12-12-2018, 12:38 PM
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So what you are saying you don't like how i write lol. Well that is fine, Im here to do a job and the quote of Marks was because we had just talked about this the other day and I found it funny. My 2 cents


Frankly I was not aware this is your day job - and Mark’s, I get it.

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post #38 of 142 Old 12-12-2018, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Frankly I was not aware this is your day job - and Mark’s, I get it.

Need traffic to the site, meet your quarterly KPI’s for traffic and growth for ad revenue.


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So a couple quick points.

I'm full-time AVS Forum editorial. It's my day job. Steve is a freelancer, it's not his day job. Let's move on from that distraction now.

As for IMAX Enhanced, I'm planning to cover what news there is about it at CES 2019.
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post #39 of 142 Old 12-13-2018, 01:50 AM
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I'm allergic to Jennifer Lawrence, so. Skip.
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post #40 of 142 Old 12-13-2018, 09:35 AM
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The IMAX enhanced stuff is bizarre and hopefully someone can get to the bottom of it, maybe even IMAX and DTS. So at least DTS might have it figured out but what is IMAX enhanced? Nobody can answer that and IMAX wont answer it. Its bizarre that Sony is the only display (FP and projo) maker certified and yet, they have zero plans for HDR10+. Where are Samsung and Fox the HDR10+ guys? I am always down for new tech that makes things better, so hopefully they figure it out. It sounds like Aquaman will be perfect for this
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post #41 of 142 Old 12-13-2018, 09:38 AM
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First IMAX Enhanced Titles Now Available

Alright, so what’s the need for another immersive sound format?
Seriously now.
Yes, I’m the guy who was very early adopter back in 2012 with dtsNeoX... it was discrete 11.1, std 7.1 plus front heights and front wides. Via my Denon 4520CI.
There were what, 3 movies released with that? Sure I used the dts up mixer for everything else.






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post #42 of 142 Old 12-13-2018, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renoreigns View Post
I have a 7.2.4 setup and can't see how I could benefit from anything greater. Would love to hear from someone a little more versed on the subject.
With typical home theatre set-ups, seating is usually in the back half of the room. As such, the biggest gap between speakers is between the Fronts and Sides. A pair of Wides can help bridge that gap, so you will benefit from having 9 speakers in the base layer.

Likewise, having 4 speakers in the height layer means that there are height speakers in front of you and behind you. Sound intended to appear directly above you have to be reproduced as phantom images. A third pair of heights can replace the phantom images with more stable hard sources (speakers), so you will benefit from having 6 speakers in the height layer.

As with most things in this hobby, the additional speakers fall into the 'desired, not required' category. As a general rule, the more speakers used, the less reliance on phantom imaging. The less reliance on phantom imaging, the more stable your soundfield (for ALL listeners). Going beyond 7.1.4 will bring incremental benefits. But that's better than no improvement.
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post #43 of 142 Old 12-13-2018, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by renoreigns View Post
I have a 7.2.4 setup and can't see how I could benefit from anything greater. Would love to hear from someone a little more versed on the subject.
With typical home theatre set-ups, seating is usually in the back half of the room8. As such, the biggest gap between speakers is between the Fronts and Sides. A pair of Wides can help bridge that gap, so you will benefit from having 9 speakers in the base layer.

Likewise, having 4 speakers in the height layer means that there are height speakers in front of you and behind you. Sound intended to appear directly above you have to be reproduced as phantom images. A third pair of heights can replace the phantom images with more stable hard sources (speakers), so you will benefit from having 6 speakers in the height layer.

As with most things in this hobby, the additional speakers fall into the 'desired, not required' category. As a general rule, the more speakers used, the less reliance on phantom imaging. The less reliance on phantom imaging, the more stable your soundfield (for ALL listeners). Going beyond 7.1.4 will bring incremental benefits. But that's better than no improvement.
Well said. Thank you for the info. It all made sense, and I can understand how it would be beneficial for some people. My room isn't very large so I think the coverage overall is pretty good but I could see how this benefits those with larger rooms with more seating.
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post #44 of 142 Old 12-15-2018, 11:32 AM
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John - How'd you get a free promo version?
I'll take 1 and review it.

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Extremely fine print, like trying to hide it. HDR10+
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post #45 of 142 Old 12-15-2018, 09:39 PM
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Watched this tonight and it was quite impressive. I'm hopeful this format takes off in a big way very soon.

Spoiler!
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post #46 of 142 Old 12-16-2018, 03:12 PM
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This IMAX Enhanced business reminds me a whole lot of THX modes and what they did by putting their name on products. Its not a format just a setting. I'll wait until more reviews and products come out to make further judgment but it all seems very similar to what THX did in marketing.

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post #47 of 142 Old 12-17-2018, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by atomicron View Post
Well.. for a documentary.. in space where sound doesn’t travel.. this is arguably the most immersive audio track I’ve heard from from my system. The narration is done by multiple people (crew of the space station) and by Jennifer Lawrence. The Lawrence narration almost always comes from the center speaker in front of while meanwhile the others speaking often sounds like it coming from above you.. very similar to the VOG in an Auro3D configuration.
Is that what it's supposed to sound like, that the voice is coming from above? In my system, at least, it sounded like the other astronauts' voices were coming from my entire front wall all at once. It was weird and very unnatural-sounding. Perhaps I need to adjust my speakers again.

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post #48 of 142 Old 12-17-2018, 02:39 PM
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It was weird and very unnatural-sounding.
So like DTS Neural:X then...


/much prefer DSU
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post #49 of 142 Old 12-18-2018, 04:51 AM
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Looking at this in more detail, some Q's:

1) What's the likely-hood that projectors will be certified as IMAX Enhanced? Which ones on the market today could pass?
2) Currently what UHD TV's on the market are or could be considered IMAX Enhanced? LG OLED?
"What makes an IMAX Enhanced TV different from a regular 4K UHD TV?
IMAX Enhanced displays must meet additional requirements over and above what most 4K UHD TVs deliver today in order to receive the IMAX Enhanced program certification.

The IMAX Enhanced program features the best displays that meet the program’s standards across proper calibration, resolution, color, brightness, contrast, scale of image and sound capabilities. The carefully prescribed set of the highest audio and video specifications are defined by a certification committee of IMAX and DTS engineers and Hollywood’s leading technical specialists to ensure the devices that feature the IMAX Enhanced logo deliver flawless playback of picture and sound as the filmmakers intended."
.
.
3) I'd wager that 95%+ of people who have installed ceiling speaker have NOT installed front and rear heights, mounted on front/rear wall at ceiling/wall interface and angled down towards MLP/row, rather they have Top Mids/Rear Mids in a 7.1.4 layout.
Note: I actually have 7.2.6 with FH+TM+RH so audio wise I could experience the IMAX experience as intended.
"What are the recommended and minimum channel count requirements (including the number of subwoofers)?
For optimal playback of IMAX Enhanced content, the recommended speaker layout for an IMAX Enhanced system is 7.2.4 with seven speakers in the horizontal plane, two subwoofers and four height speakers. 5.1.4 is the minimum layout for IMAX Enhanced A/V receivers and processors. Due to various constraints, consumers may opt to install fewer speakers than the recommended and minimum layouts noted above. In such cases, the spatial remapping engine included in the DTS:X decoder will properly render and remap audio to the available speakers.
The 5.1.4 speaker layout includes the following physical speaker locations: L, C, R, Ls, Rs, Lh, Rh, Lhr, Rhr and one or more subwoofers (LFE). In a 7.1.4 system, the speaker locations are as follows: L, C, R, Lss, Rss, Lsr, Rsr, Lh, Rh, Lhr, Rhr and one or more subwoofers (LFE). For specific speaker locations, please refer to the following table:"
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post #50 of 142 Old 12-18-2018, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSonyExperience View Post
Watched this tonight and it was quite impressive. I'm hopeful this format takes off in a big way very soon.
Post your setup, are you judging this on a full IMAX certified audio/video arrangement?
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post #51 of 142 Old 12-18-2018, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
I'd wager that 95%+ of people who have installed ceiling speaker have NOT installed front and rear heights, mounted on front/rear wall at ceiling/wall interface and angled down towards MLP/row, rather they have Top Mids/Rear Mids in a 7.1.4 layout. Note: I actually have 7.2.6 with FH+TM+RH so audio wise I could experience the IMAX experience as intended.
When DTS refers to front & rear Heights, they mean speakers at 45 degrees elevation, not speakers at the front & rear ceiling/wall interface. Dolby refers to these same locations as Tops. So the high centre object in IMAX Enhanced soundtracks was mixed to render "as intended" when using speakers at 45 degrees elevation in front of you rather than at the front ceiling/wall interface.

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post #52 of 142 Old 12-18-2018, 11:19 AM
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First IMAX Enhanced Titles Now Available

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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
When DTS refers to front & rear Heights, they mean speakers at 45 degrees elevation, not speakers at the front & rear ceiling/wall interface. Dolby refers to these same locations as Tops. So the high centre object in IMAX Enhanced soundtracks was mixed to render "as intended" when using speakers at 45 degrees elevation in front of you rather than at the front ceiling/wall interface.


Well just like SAE is stds for autos, surely it’s time for std speaker naming scheme.
Not rocket science, but if not done the general public audience will never get it.
Heck, I might have know that 4 years ago and forgot as dts is a minor player compared to Dolby


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post #53 of 142 Old 12-18-2018, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Well just like SAE is stds for autos, surely it’s time for std speaker naming scheme.
Sure, IF rival competitors are willing to agree.
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dts is a minor player compared to Dolby
True, but they still have 90% of Blu-ray and over a hundred DTS:X releases on home video, including several popular franchises: Bourne, Harry Potter, Fast & Furious, Jurassic Park/World, Pitch Perfect, Mummy, Fifty Shades, Purge, How to Train Your Dragon, etc.

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post #54 of 142 Old 12-19-2018, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicron View Post
Well.. for a documentary.. in space where sound doesn’t travel.. this is arguably the most immersive audio track I’ve heard from from my system. The narration is done by multiple people (crew of the space station) and by Jennifer Lawrence. The Lawrence narration almost always comes from the center speaker in front of while meanwhile the others speaking often sounds like it coming from above you.. very similar to the VOG in an Auro3D configuration.

The background music and environmental sounds are definitely elevated to create reference immersion audio with almost continuous sounds coming from one or multiple speakers.
I did some testing today with the IMAX DTS track on Beautiful Planet. As Atomicron says, the Jennifer Lawrence narration comes almost exclusively from the Center channel. At a number of points, however, the voiceover narration from the various astronauts will be mixed to come discretely from the front Left and Right speakers simultaneously with the Surround Back left and right. Their voices do not come from the Center, the Surrounds, or any of the heights. In my room, this sounded less like the voices were above me and more like they imaged directly from my seat. It's a little disconcerting, honestly. I don't really understand why someone would want to mix the movie this way.

It also sounds a little weird in my room because (and I expect this to be a common issue) my Surround Back speakers are not quite on par with my front towers. I think for the effect to work best you'd need to have identical speakers all around.

I listened to a bunch of scenes from the documentary with all of my speakers disengaged except the height channels, just to see what's really up there. It's mostly music and some ambient noises. Not a lot of discrete sound effects.

At this point, I'm not sure why IMAX needed their own proprietary audio codec. From what I can tell, there's nothing technical about this track that couldn't have been done in normal DTS:X (or Atmos).

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post #55 of 142 Old 12-20-2018, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

At this point, I'm not sure why IMAX needed their own proprietary audio codec. From what I can tell, there's nothing technical about this track that couldn't have been done in normal DTS:X (or Atmos).

You really do know but have chosen to not actually come out and say it.


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post #56 of 142 Old 12-20-2018, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I did some testing today with the IMAX DTS track on Beautiful Planet. As Atomicron says, the Jennifer Lawrence narration comes almost exclusively from the Center channel. At a number of points, however, the voiceover narration from the various astronauts will be mixed to come discretely from the front Left and Right speakers simultaneously with the Surround Back left and right. Their voices do not come from the Center, the Surrounds, or any of the heights. In my room, this sounded less like the voices were above me and more like they imaged directly from my seat. It's a little disconcerting, honestly. I don't really understand why someone would want to mix the movie this way.

It also sounds a little weird in my room because (and I expect this to be a common issue) my Surround Back speakers are not quite on par with my front towers. I think for the effect to work best you'd need to have identical speakers all around.

I listened to a bunch of scenes from the documentary with all of my speakers disengaged except the height channels, just to see what's really up there. It's mostly music and some ambient noises. Not a lot of discrete sound effects.

At this point, I'm not sure why IMAX needed their own proprietary audio codec. From what I can tell, there's nothing technical about this track that couldn't have been done in normal DTS:X (or Atmos).
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You really do know but have chosen to not actually come out and say it.


Art
And the answer is... it is DTS. Whoever said it isn't? AFAIK, it's using DTS:X and metadata/flag is triggering specific settings, the IMAX Enhanced settings. Not too tough to wrap your head around, IMO. If there's more to it, I'll see what's up at CES 2019.

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post #57 of 142 Old 12-20-2018, 05:31 AM
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Uh, and the answer is... it is DTS. Whoever said it isn't?
From the IMAX Enhanced press release: "IMAX and DTS have also partnered with award-winning Hollywood sound mixers to use a special variant of the DTS:X codec technology integrated in home audio equipment to deliver an IMAX signature sound experience with more immersive, powerful sound."

What's special about this codec variant? Why was a variant needed? As far as I can tell, the only thing the variant does is display the word "IMAX" on the receiver front panel.

Quote:
AFAIK, it's using DTS:X and metadata is triggering specific settings. Not too tough to wrap your head around.

What specific settings? What I'm saying is that it doesn't appear to be using any special settings. It doesn't seem to do anything that couldn't be done in regular DTS:X, except put the word "IMAX" on your front panel. And yet they expect people to upgrade their A/V receivers to get this shiny new audio format.

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post #58 of 142 Old 12-20-2018, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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From the IMAX Enhanced press release: "IMAX and DTS have also partnered with award-winning Hollywood sound mixers to use a special variant of the DTS:X codec technology integrated in home audio equipment to deliver an IMAX signature sound experience with more immersive, powerful sound."

What's special about this codec variant? Why was a variant needed? As far as I can tell, the only thing the variant does is display the word "IMAX" on the receiver front panel.




What specific settings? What I'm saying is that it doesn't appear to be using any special settings. It doesn't do seem to do anything that couldn't be done in regular DTS:X, except put the word "IMAX" on your front panel. And yet they expect people to upgrade their A/V receivers to get this shiny new audio format.
I'm not an engineer, nor am I reverse engineer. But, thanks for quoting the article... My words did make it clear it is DTS:X, right? I did not use the word proprietary there, either—that's your word. My wording is derived from IMAX wording on the imaxenhanced.com site. By definition, "variant" is a lot different from "proprietary." IMAX refers to the audio mix itself, and also the video enhancement processing used in mastering the disc, as proprietary. The same term is not attached to the DTS:X processing.

Semantics! Granular detail! Just clarifying what I wrote, since these sort of thread discussions tend to be like that "telephone" game where the original message gets mangled as it gets passed along. Beyond that, feel free to speculate, experiment, post whatever, etc. just don't change what I wrote into something else, please.

CES 2019 provides a new opportunity to ask Denon/Marantz and IMAX for details, it's just a few weeks away.
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post #59 of 142 Old 12-20-2018, 08:54 AM
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What specific settings? What I'm saying is that it doesn't appear to be using any special settings.
The IE flag was supposed to turn off any dynamic range compression and switch the crossover to 70Hz (same as the high-pass filter in commercial IMAX theatres). If it is not switching to these settings, then it is not doing what was explained during CEDIA. They either changed their minds about this aspect of IE (between the two months from CEDIA to the software upgrade release) or the mode is not working as intended (like the centre channel distortion when the DTS upmixer was released).

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post #60 of 142 Old 12-20-2018, 09:11 AM
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The IE flag was supposed to turn off any dynamic range compression and switch the crossover to 70Hz (same as the high-pass filter in commercial IMAX theatres). If it is not switching to these settings, then it is not doing what was explained during CEDIA. They either changed their minds about this aspect of IE (between the two months from CEDIA to the software upgrade release) or the mode is not working as intended (like the centre channel distortion when the DTS upmixer was released).
I've never used dynamic range compression, so it didn't occur to me to check that. The IMAX soundtrack did not alter my crossover settings, at least not that can be discerned from the receiver's user menus. My front three speakers remain crossed over at 80Hz and most of the others at 100Hz.

I suppose I could try manually setting my crossovers below 70Hz (say, to 40 or 50) and then checking whether the soundtrack raises them. I'm doubtful of that, though. I did experiment with changing my front towers to Large and the soundtrack didn't change that.
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