Amazon HD Music Streaming Service Launched Today - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 146 Old 09-26-2019, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleTap1911 View Post
I've been using Amazon Music every day for many years and just heard about this yesterday.


I mostly listen at my PC which is connected to my Integra DTR 40.2 through HDMI, but I'm limited to 48K (see attached)


I'm using a Gefen HDMI Detective Plus EDID emulator - should I have higher bandwidth options available and does it seem likely that the Gefen is limiting access to those?

I do run 7.1 but the AVR seamlessly goes into stereo or multi channel mode based on what the PC is sending.


Thanks
24/48 is good. Better than the Fire TV Stick 4K's 16/48 limitation. 24/48 should be almost, if not completely, indiscernible from 24/96. 24/192 is in the realm of bragging rights only.

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post #92 of 146 Old 09-26-2019, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by puddy77 View Post
The Verge article only mentioned music in 3D audio but didn't specifically say it was Atmos. But Dolby just tweeted this: https://youtu.be/Wy4KqZYaj3c


https://twitter.com/Dolby/status/1176949418479611904
This What Hi-Fi article says that Dolby Atmos tracks are available on Amazon Music HD now but I haven’t seen any. Does anyone know of any?
https://www.whathifi.com/news/dolby-...mazon-music-hd
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post #93 of 146 Old 09-26-2019, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
Thanks. Checking reviews. PW Link appears have some issues. Here is one recent in-depth review: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...amer-dac.7763/
In my case, I use the Digital output from PW-Link to my Anthem STR Integrated Amplifier so the DAC conversion is done there. I would recommend the same for Denon. Remember this device is only $157. As far as Play-Fi goes there were issues but they have been cleared up. It has been running flawlessly in the last few months. Also, their support staff is very responsive. The ios app does not yet support Amazon Music HD but it will in one or 2 weeks as reported to me by support. I am using the Windows App right now but it only can stream up to 24 bit 44.1 but quite frankly that is good enough for me.
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post #94 of 146 Old 09-26-2019, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by emergetech View Post
In my case, I use the Digital output from PW-Link to my Anthem STR Integrated Amplifier so the DAC conversion is done there. I would recommend the same for Denon. Remember this device is only $157. As far as Play-Fi goes there were issues but they have been cleared up. It has been running flawlessly in the last few months. Also, their support staff is very responsive. The ios app does not yet support Amazon Music HD but it will in one or 2 weeks as reported to me by support. I am using the Windows App right now but it only can stream up to 24 bit 44.1 but quite frankly that is good enough for me.
I'm interested.

I have a Samsung Galaxy S9+. Do you know if the Play-FI Android App supports Amazon Music HD?

I presume your using the TosLink output?

Is 24/192 possible from the TosLink output playing Amazon Music HD?

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post #95 of 146 Old 09-26-2019, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
Thanks. Checking reviews. PW Link appears have some issues. Here is one recent in-depth review: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...amer-dac.7763/

Don't know about this...even some respected equipment measured poorly there...not sure it's even audible...guess it depends on what you're looking for.

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post #96 of 146 Old 09-26-2019, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by emergetech View Post
In my case, I use the Digital output from PW-Link to my Anthem STR Integrated Amplifier so the DAC conversion is done there. I would recommend the same for Denon. Remember this device is only $157. As far as Play-Fi goes there were issues but they have been cleared up. It has been running flawlessly in the last few months. Also, their support staff is very responsive. The ios app does not yet support Amazon Music HD but it will in one or 2 weeks as reported to me by support. I am using the Windows App right now but it only can stream up to 24 bit 44.1 but quite frankly that is good enough for me.

I agree, Play-Fi has come a long way. I remember purchasing the PW-AMP because I got a great deal, then threw it in the closet for a year due to frustration...lol. Now it's good, the software has come a long way. I believe they also plan to release an update that allows the Play-Fi device to take control of the streaming, like Chromecast, vs the steaming coming from device running the app.


The other day I tried playing on 2 devices for the first time and was surprised...no delays...audio was in sync. Still has some ways to go, but it's steadily improving.

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post #97 of 146 Old 09-27-2019, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
I'm interested.

I have a Samsung Galaxy S9+. Do you know if the Play-FI Android App supports Amazon Music HD?

I presume your using the TosLink output?

Is 24/192 possible from the TosLink output playing Amazon Music HD?
Here is the response I got from support asking about Amazon Music HD on ios but I imagine it is the same for Andriod

"Sorry about that. The news post for Amazon HD went up in there a little prematurely, and I’ve since taken it down, so as to not be misleading. We’re all set for the Ultra HD content, but Amazon needs to flip a switch for us, which they tell us they’re going to do in 1 to 2 weeks, so it shouldn’t be too long.

I’ll restore that post when we go live, and we’ll also do a whole new article as well to help indicate it.

Best,
Phorus Support"


You can also reach out to support: [email protected]
Yes. Toslink supports 24/192 so as long as the DAC in your Denon supports it, you are good to go.

As a final note, I should tell you that my experience with the unit is based upon using an Ethernet connection. I do not use wifi in the unit. Maybe someone else can chime in on their experience with 24/192 and wifi on the PW-Link.
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post #98 of 146 Old 09-27-2019, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jwAV View Post
This What Hi-Fi article says that Dolby Atmos tracks are available on Amazon Music HD now but I haven’t seen any. Does anyone know of any?
https://www.whathifi.com/news/dolby-...mazon-music-hd
Dolby have issued a list of BlueRay & streamed Atmos. The streamed stuff is mostly only available in China & the one that's not (Taylor Swift-'Reputation, Stadium Tour') isn't showing up in Amazon Music yet.
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/experien...ic-titles.html
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post #99 of 146 Old 09-27-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by emergetech View Post
Here is the response I got from support asking about Amazon Music HD on ios but I imagine it is the same for Andriod

"Sorry about that. The news post for Amazon HD went up in there a little prematurely, and I’ve since taken it down, so as to not be misleading. We’re all set for the Ultra HD content, but Amazon needs to flip a switch for us, which they tell us they’re going to do in 1 to 2 weeks, so it shouldn’t be too long.

I’ll restore that post when we go live, and we’ll also do a whole new article as well to help indicate it.

Best,
Phorus Support"


You can also reach out to support: [email protected]
Yes. Toslink supports 24/192 so as long as the DAC in your Denon supports it, you are good to go.

As a final note, I should tell you that my experience with the unit is based upon using an Ethernet connection. I do not use wifi in the unit. Maybe someone else can chime in on their experience with 24/192 and wifi on the PW-Link.
Thanks for your research.

Does Phorus supply the software for PW Link?

I found this cached version of the Play-Fi website where they announced Amazon Music HD on 9/17/19 but apparently they pulled the announcement. https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cachecgVS9VskoUJ:https://play-fi.com/news/new-features-quality-of-life-improvements-for-dts-play-fi+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Amazon and Dolby announced that they would offer Amazon Music HD songs mixed with Dolby Atmos. Given that Play-Fi is a DTS product, will DTS add Dolby Atmos support to Play-Fi?

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post #100 of 146 Old 09-27-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Self-Righteous View Post
Dolby have issued a list of BlueRay & streamed Atmos. The streamed stuff is mostly only available in China & the one that's not (Taylor Swift-'Reputation, Stadium Tour') isn't showing up in Amazon Music yet.
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/experien...ic-titles.html
Yes, I did see that but the article appears to suggest that Atmos music is available now. I suppose we will have to wait
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post #101 of 146 Old 09-27-2019, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by emergetech View Post
Remember this device is only $157.
Where did you pick it up for that price (you can pm if that's more acceptable). Thanks!
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post #102 of 146 Old 09-27-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
Thanks for your research.

Does Phorus supply the software for PW Link?

I found this cached version of the Play-Fi website where they announced Amazon Music HD on 9/17/19 but apparently they pulled the announcement. https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cachecgVS9VskoUJ:https://play-fi.com/news/new-features-quality-of-life-improvements-for-dts-play-fi+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Amazon and Dolby announced that they would offer Amazon Music HD songs mixed with Dolby Atmos. Given that Play-Fi is a DTS product, will DTS add Dolby Atmos support to Play-Fi?
Yes Phorus supplies the support for DTS Play-Fi.
As far as Dolby support, I do not know, but you can reach out to Phorus to see what they say about it.
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post #103 of 146 Old 09-27-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by emergetech View Post
Yes Phorus supplies the support for DTS Play-Fi.
As far as Dolby support, I do not know, but you can reach out to Phorus to see what they say about it.
I did over an hour ago...

to: [email protected]
date: Sep 27, 2019, 9:50 AM
subject: Dolby Atmos Support

I'm looking for a hi-res streamer that can stream/play Amazon Music HD up to it's full capability of 24/192 connected to my Denon 6200 avr.

I am considering the PW Link.

Amazon and Dolby announced that they would offer Amazon Music HD songs mixed with Dolby Atmos. Given that Play-Fi is a DTS product, will Play-Fi support Amazon Music HD Dolby Atmos songs?

Thanks

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post #104 of 146 Old 09-27-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by emergetech View Post
Yes Phorus supplies the support for DTS Play-Fi.
As far as Dolby support, I do not know, but you can reach out to Phorus to see what they say about it.
Here is Phorus' reply but unfortunately Dolby Atmos is a no-go:

Phorus Support <[email protected]>
11:33 AM (1 hour ago)
to me

Quote:
Hello,

That’s a good question. We’ll be supporting Amazon’s Hi Res playback very shortly, but we don’t have any plans for 3D audio support at this time, either for Dolby or Sony’s offerings.

Regards,

Phorus Support

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post #105 of 146 Old 09-27-2019, 03:13 PM
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I believe a couple posts in this thread suggested that Amazon's HD and UHD are simply upsampled from lower res files.

Where is the proof of this?

While I would not believe the above without proof, I am interested in knowing the provenance of the UHD tracks. Are they masters from the record labels?

I find it interesting that the UHD tracks can be 44.1, 96, or 192 kHz. Also, some tracks on some albums are in UHD, while others are in HD. Intuitively, I would think that a record label would have and would provide all album tracks to Amazon in UHD.


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post #106 of 146 Old 09-28-2019, 08:22 AM
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I believe a couple posts in this thread suggested that Amazon's HD and UHD are simply upsampled from lower res files.
Where is the proof of this?...
I don't believe Amazon Music HD service is upsampling, otherwise all tracks would be streaming at the highest resolution.
I believe that the record labels are providing the tracks and I'm 100% sure that many of these hi res tracks are upsampled because for many years we have seen "hi res" tracks being sold on sites like HDTracks which have been shown to be upsampled from lower resolution.
So, shame on the record labels!
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post #107 of 146 Old 09-28-2019, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by glennds View Post
I don't believe Amazon Music HD service is upsampling, otherwise all tracks would be streaming at the highest resolution.
I believe that the record labels are providing the tracks and I'm 100% sure that many of these hi res tracks are upsampled because for many years we have seen "hi res" tracks being sold on sites like HDTracks which have been shown to be upsampled from lower resolution.
So, shame on the record labels!
Interesting, if the record labels are simply providing upsampled versions, then the next question is what was the bit depth and sampling frequency of the original lower res track, perhaps the 16/44.1 red book track that was used to create the original CD?

Upsampling 16/44.1 to something higher res would be kind of a a joke, as it would just result in a larger file with no new musical information.

For me personally, a 16/44.1 FLAC stream derived from the original CD's red book 16/44.1 track is good enough anyway...as long as that's what Amazon is providing for tracks in "HD".


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post #108 of 146 Old 09-28-2019, 09:57 AM
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To help keep my data usage in check I wish Amazon Music HD would let us choose to limit streaming quality and not go higher than specified. I'm fine with a max quality of 24/44.1 or 24/48.

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post #109 of 146 Old 09-29-2019, 08:44 AM
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Does anyone know if Ultra HD Music(24bit), will work with the Sony ht-z9f soundbar? The HT-z9f has Sony's own Hi-Res audio, which is 24bits. When I cast it from the Amazon music app to soundbar, it's only 16bit(HD). Thanks.
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post #110 of 146 Old 09-29-2019, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by glennds View Post
Comparing mobile data usage...
...Why is Amazon HD music streaming using so much more data than Deezer HQ?...
I've found the answer to my own question.
In short Deezer uses memory to reduce data usage when playing repeat tracks, Amazon Music does not use memory (or not as much memory).

Here's some technical info on data usage:

- after sitting idle for a 5 minute period:............................... Amazon= 40KB / Deezer= 600B
- after searching for and playing a NEW track (CD quality):..... Amazon= 25MB / Deezer= 30MB
- after playing a REPEAT track:............................................ Amazon= 9Mb / Deezer= 40KB

Sitting idle Amazon uses considerably more data than Deezer.
Every time you search for a track Amazon uses much more data than Deezer.
Every time a brand new track is played (CD quality) Amazon uses slightly less data than Deezer.
Every time a track is repeated (CD quality) Amazon still uses at least 9MB and Deezer uses up to 40KB (every time)!

*** I'm currently doing a 1hour test between Amazon's "My Soundtrack" and Deezer's "Flow" each of which will play a mix of repeat tracks that have already played in the past and new tracks that has never played.***
After 1 hour playing Amazon's "My Soundtrack" (16 tracks)= 750MB of data consumed.
After 1 hour playing Deezer's "Flow" (16 tracks)= 450MB of data consumed.

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post #111 of 146 Old 09-29-2019, 05:47 PM
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Of course they are. It's business.

Currently I'm a bit mad at Best Buy so anything I would have bought there I'm getting from Amazon instead.

I don't see any problem with rewarding good service. I hope big companies aren't broken up in the future just because they have done too good of a job.

-Brian
What did Best Buy do to you? I try to spread my business out a bit, just so that I'm not doing everything on Amazon, but it's darn tempting, as often I can get stuff on Amazon that I can't even find in a store, even if I spend hours driving around looking for it.

Best Buy has gotten a lot better, and I will cross-shop them for BF Blu-Ray and electronics specials. I also won't order household goods and such from Amazon, it's easier and cheaper to just get them from Wal-Mart.
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post #112 of 146 Old 09-30-2019, 02:47 AM
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What did Best Buy do to you?.
I'd rather not say.
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post #113 of 146 Old 10-10-2019, 09:35 PM
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Anyone know if the new Amazon Music App for Apple TV will play Amazon Music HD in their higher resolution?
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post #114 of 146 Old 10-11-2019, 09:53 AM
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Anyone know if the new Amazon Music App for Apple TV will play Amazon Music HD in their higher resolution?
Well I was getting 48KHz but then ATV plays everything at 48KHz.

I do believe ATV can output 24/48 which in my opinion is all the higher resolution you could actually hear. I have yet to find surround sound music on Amazon HD yet though ... would be great if it could do 24/48 ATMOS
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post #115 of 146 Old 10-12-2019, 07:56 AM
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Denon's site now has 3 months Amazon HD Music free trial also......https://denon.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6992

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post #116 of 146 Old 10-13-2019, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucka View Post
Anyone know if the new Amazon Music App for Apple TV will play Amazon Music HD in their higher resolution?
I have searched and searched for the very same answer but can’t find one!
I assume that the Apple TV 4K well play Atmos music when that is launched on Amazon music but I doubt it is capable of outputting 24/192. I assume that the new Amazon Fire TV 4K cube has been developed to coincide with the release of Amazon music uhd and so expect that to output 24/192. If anyone has this device then please, please can you confirm that it does? I will buy it the next day!
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post #117 of 146 Old 10-14-2019, 06:17 AM
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Amazon Fire TV 4K Cube 2nd Gen (24/48)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwAV View Post
I have searched and searched for the very same answer but can’t find one!
I assume that the Apple TV 4K well play Atmos music when that is launched on Amazon music but I doubt it is capable of outputting 24/192. I assume that the new Amazon Fire TV 4K cube has been developed to coincide with the release of Amazon music uhd and so expect that to output 24/192. If anyone has this device then please, please can you confirm that it does? I will buy it the next day!

I installed the 2nd Gen Cube this weekend. The device capability is 24/48. The 1st Gen was 16/48.
I'm routing through a Denon AVR.
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post #118 of 146 Old 10-14-2019, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwAV View Post
I have searched and searched for the very same answer but can’t find one!
I assume that the Apple TV 4K well play Atmos music when that is launched on Amazon music but I doubt it is capable of outputting 24/192. I assume that the new Amazon Fire TV 4K cube has been developed to coincide with the release of Amazon music uhd and so expect that to output 24/192. If anyone has this device then please, please can you confirm that it does? I will buy it the next day!
you will buy based on 24/192 ?

Have you given this much thought? ... human hearing has limits and most agree the upper range of frequencies is around 22KHz. If you double that sampling rate you can reproduce any audible sound. In other words if the ATV4K puts out 24/48 that should be all you need.

In my own testing I played back music at 24/96 (from a Mac mini) and 24/48 for ATV4K and could not hear any difference.

If the number 192 is just one of your favorite numbers then I understand. It is a pretty cool number.


-Brian
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post #119 of 146 Old 10-14-2019, 10:10 AM
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I don't think there is a lot of content in 24/192. When I used to buy physical disks 24/192 was the SACD format which was mainly classical. Not a lot of SACD were being sold. 16/44 was cd quality. Most music today is produced for streaming so I'm guessing the content is being upsampled unless Amazon is storing FLAC or some uncompressed format.

Talks of 24/192 back in the day were about DACs upsampling 16/44 cds. I've never been concerned about sampling rate. I was more concerned on how well the music was produced and recorded. Now I'm more concerned about wanting less compression and then better recordings.

IMO, 24/192 UHD is a marketing scheme to make ppl think they are getting better quality compared to competitors which seems Amazon has done a good job of doing with all the talks of wanting 24/192. I want uncompressed CD FLAC streams. I'm not concerned with how much data I'm consuming since larger files is expected and I have unlimited data.

I'll start my free trial once I figure out what device I want to connect to my DAC on the big rig.

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post #120 of 146 Old 10-14-2019, 10:15 AM
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Anyone check the current version on iOS. is it 9.3.1 or later? I think some have received a newer version.
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