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post #31 of 1626 Old 07-03-2013, 12:40 AM
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I'm pretty sure the distance settings have an impact on syncing your ears with that your eyes see.

Meaning, if you start adjusting your speakers the way you are describing, you will notice a delay/advance in sound from what you see on screen.
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post #32 of 1626 Old 07-05-2013, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Ok, back to your question. It sounds like you want the lower end frequency feel which means the mbm wouldn't do it for you. It's more for punchy, tactile feel not shake the couch feel. I never got much shake the couch feel until I went from an SVS sub to a Captivator and then dual Captivators. I would suggest near field but for me that didn't work as well for the low end frequency couch shaking - in your room this may not be the case though. With the Caps up front in the corners the scene from Die Hard 4 with the apartment uzi the couch shook like crazy. With nearfield not so much. The nearfield Caps placement did help with music tactile feel though.

I'm not a fan of bass shakers. Some people love them though, so if you have experienced them and like them then that is the way to go for sure.
In your opinion, which will shake the couch more: Orbit Shifter or Captivator?
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post #33 of 1626 Old 07-26-2013, 12:52 PM
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Damn that is classy.

I am envy. redface.gif
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post #34 of 1626 Old 07-26-2013, 12:56 PM
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In your opinion, which will shake the couch more: Orbit Shifter or Captivator?

Completely different kinds of 'shake the couch' between the two. The Orbit Shifter is capable but will crush your chest. The Cap will make your couch feel like a water bed.

I'd say... get both! biggrin.gif
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post #35 of 1626 Old 07-26-2013, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Completely different kinds of 'shake the couch' between the two. The Orbit Shifter is capable but will crush your chest. The Cap will make your couch feel like a water bed.

I'd say... get both! biggrin.gif

That is a really good description of both subs.
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post #36 of 1626 Old 08-05-2013, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I have a speaker delay question.

So, my center channel is 1' 9" from the screen. Do I change the CC speaker distance so that it is the same as the screen (add 1'9" to the speaker distance)? If I do that it throws off the other speakers though, right? Do I simply add that same 1'9" to all my speaker and sub distances?

It probably doesn't make that much difference but I'm curious.

You probably already solved this one but I doubt the 1' 9" difference would affect the lip sync. I could be wrong but sound travels fast enough that it is hard for me to imagine one could tell.

I do however think that changing the speaker distances relative to one another would foul up how the sound from various speakers arrives at your ears and would be audible for sure just as you already thought.
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post #37 of 1626 Old 08-06-2013, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

You probably already solved this one but I doubt the 1' 9" difference would affect the lip sync. I could be wrong but sound travels fast enough that it is hard for me to imagine one could tell.

I do however think that changing the speaker distances relative to one another would foul up how the sound from various speakers arrives at your ears and would be audible for sure just as you already thought.

Yeah, you are right I can't tell. However it is starting to bug me that all my speakers/subs are staring at me and they sometimes distract me which made me realize that someday I will have to go AT. I don't have the cash right now to do it so I'm thinking it will be a good project for next summer.
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post #38 of 1626 Old 08-07-2013, 10:47 AM
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Yeah, I would guess Center Stage XD would be around $400 ballpark. If you make your own frame you can save quite a bit. One of the cheaper frames out there is from Jamestown. They have the XD fabric as well. Another thing I had considered was buying a frame from Monoprice. Then trying to put my own fabric in. Not sure how it would be done but it looks like it is a well made aluminum frame at least for the price.
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post #39 of 1626 Old 08-07-2013, 12:43 PM
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Carp - When you've got the coin saved, you've got to do the AT screen. Well worth the investment and one of the biggest 'bang for the buck' purchases I've done for my theater.

I know I've told you this before but wanted to re-state for emphasis. biggrin.gif
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post #40 of 1626 Old 08-07-2013, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Yeah, I would guess Center Stage XD would be around $400 ballpark. If you make your own frame you can save quite a bit. One of the cheaper frames out there is from Jamestown. They have the XD fabric as well. Another thing I had considered was buying a frame from Monoprice. Then trying to put my own fabric in. Not sure how it would be done but it looks like it is a well made aluminum frame at least for the price.

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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Carp - When you've got the coin saved, you've got to do the AT screen. Well worth the investment and one of the biggest 'bang for the buck' purchases I've done for my theater.

I know I've told you this before but wanted to re-state for emphasis. biggrin.gif


Thanks for the advice guys - at this point I've realized that an AT screen is happening it's just a matter of when.

I went over to Kevin's place yesterday (his new house is literally about a mile away which is nice) and I got to check out his new screen and frame he built and it made me want to go AT even more, and that's before he even has the screen put up on the frame.

I think I'll do what Kevin did and buy the screen/frame already made which will mean I'll have to wait awhile but I'm thinking next summer anyway.

In the mean time I'm planning (Grant, I know I told you today I couldn't spend money for a while but you know how that goes smile.gif ) on a cheap but large tv for the screened porch, I found a 55 inch Vizio on Ebay for 499 no tax free shipping. I'm thinking about jumping on that, but I know it's a risk since I assume there is no warranty? Check the link and let me know what you guys think:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vizio-55-E552VLE-Flat-Panel-LCD-1080p-HD-TV-Wifi-Internet-Apps-120Hz-100000-1-/141031642851

I don't need super great picture quality but I do need a large size tv since the main seating area on the porch is 20 feet from the wall where the tv would be.


Also, today I put 3 of my panels on the ceiling at the first reflection points to see what it did to the sound. There is an even more noticeable improvement on the ceiling than putting them up on the side walls. It's not a huge but easily enough for me to order 3 more 242 panels from GIK. It makes sense that the panels on the celeing make a bigger difference because the Noesis are so direct but do have a wider dispersion up and down than they do left and right.

It makes the speakers sound more like they do when you put your ear up close to the CD, which is a good thing IMO.

Hey Grant, lookie what I found - in case you want OS triplets. biggrin.gif

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-JTR-Orbit-Shifter-Subwooers-No-Reserve-/190880764801

No reserve, I'm surprised the bids haven't started going way up only 3 more days. That would be an unreal steal for someone even if the price goes up to 3 grand it's still a great deal as long as you don't mind driving to Maryland..... hmmm wouldn't be that crazy far for you right Andrew? smile.gif
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post #41 of 1626 Old 08-08-2013, 04:20 AM
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Whew, I'm glad they are the pro version (less extension) otherwise I would be ALL over that man. That isn't far from me at all. biggrin.gif
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post #42 of 1626 Old 08-08-2013, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Whew, I'm glad they are the pro version (less extension) otherwise I would be ALL over that man. That isn't far from me at all. biggrin.gif

Woah... didn't think to check that. Yeah, no wonder the bids aren't higher.
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post #43 of 1626 Old 08-09-2013, 07:15 AM
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Woah... didn't think to check that. Yeah, no wonder the bids aren't higher.

The passive Pro OS's have been selling for 1699 plus shipping each so if someone could steal the pair of these guys for under 2K they would have some VERY serious midrange going on. For someone with music use these would be tough or impossible to beat. I wonder how far they would extend in room? If they could get down to the low 20's / upper teens with room gain they would still very feasible for HT use.
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post #44 of 1626 Old 08-13-2013, 10:36 AM
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Great looking room Carp! Those subs make your center channel look like a 228!
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post #45 of 1626 Old 08-13-2013, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Great looking room Carp! Those subs make your center channel look like a 228!

Thanks ianick, I looked at your room pic - right back at you, nice room. I see you also have the 8350 - any problems? I'm on my 3rd, but actually 6 have been in the room since 3 of them were DOA. I'm keeping my fingers crossed with this one. I love it when it's working right! smile.gif
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post #46 of 1626 Old 08-13-2013, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Thanks ianick, I looked at your room pic - right back at you, nice room. I see you also have the 8350 - any problems? I'm on my 3rd, but actually 6 have been in the room since 3 of them were DOA. I'm keeping my fingers crossed with this one. I love it when it's working right! smile.gif

Sucks that you've had to go through so many. I haven't had mine for too long but I love it.

My Basement HT/Gaming/Bar Space.

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Epson 8350 on a 100" Visual Apex screen, Pioneer VSX-53, Polk RTi A5(x2) CSi 5 RTi A1 (x2) RTi 4(x2), Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX, PS3, XBox 360 with HD-DVD add-on.
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post #47 of 1626 Old 08-14-2013, 06:50 AM
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I will be starting to make my fabric frames this weekend. You might be able to make some DIY panels on the cheap if the budget is tight. I am using OC 705 and GOM fabric.
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post #48 of 1626 Old 08-14-2013, 12:26 PM
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Thanks! I'm only on my second 8350. I love it as well. My only complaint is I wish I could paint my room black!

Are you in the DSM Metro? I'm on the fence about ordering JTR 228's. I've read they sound very much like the 212's. Might I be able to talk you in to an audition?
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post #49 of 1626 Old 08-14-2013, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I will be starting to make my fabric frames this weekend. You might be able to make some DIY panels on the cheap if the budget is tight. I am using OC 705 and GOM fabric.

Ha.. speaking of which...

I just got done putting the last GIK 242 panel on the ceiling so too late for DIY. I have 3 242 panels on the ceiling and 2 on each side wall.
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post #50 of 1626 Old 10-26-2013, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I posted this in my 8 sub thread, I've always been curious what the total cost would be for all my stuff in this room including everything - furnuture etc. I did not include the cost for carpet, paint, lighting, etc. since all that was done.

This if more for me than anything else, but in case anyone is curious here is the breakdown:





AVR: 800
Minidsp (for eqing the subs): 115
HDMI Switchbox (I use this so I can have any source on for audio while any other source is on for video): 40
Harmony 900 Remote: 250
Blu Ray Player: 300

Computer hooked up to the AVR and Projector stores all music: 600
Lap top remotely connected to Computer to control music or computer audio/video from my main seat: 200
External Blu Ray Player 100
USB Box: 50
Wireless mouse for laptop: 30
Wireless mouse/keyboard for projected computer image on screen: 50

4 Tri Corner Bass Traps, 2 244 bass trap panels, 5 242 acoustic panels plus shipping: 1000
2 LR speaker stands 400 total for both
1 center channel custom stand: 300
Surround speaker mounts (4): 80
AV Rack: 400
Second Row Riser including rug for top and car carpet/glue for sides: 150
Dayton Omnimic: 300
Extension USB cord: 30

3 Noesis LCR speakers: 6597
2 new eD Cinema 6 surround speakers: 510
2 used eD Cinema 6 surround speakers: 300

Speaker wire: 100
Speaker wire for subs: 100
HDMI cables (including 2 50 foot runs and all other shorter runs): 150
xlr/rca interconnects including runs to the minidsp: 50
Relay to power on and off the sub with receiver remote and box for minidsp: 120
2 Dedicated 20 amp lines run for the sub amp: 400
Extension Cables: 50
Powerstips 2: 30

8 SI Subwoofer Drivers with shipping: 1500
8 Flatpack subwoofer enclosures with shipping: 1100
2 gallons Duratex to finish subs: 110
Glue, screws, polyfill, terminals and other supplies to build subs: 150
Cerwin Vega CV 5000 to power all 8 subs: 680

HSU MBM 12 mid bass module 500

Paint for DIY screen: 50
Molding for screen frame, velvet to wrap it, extra velvet around screen area, staples etc: 200
Plastic sheets cut for masking panels: 50
Prostar self adhesive black material to cover plastic panels: 75
Projector: 1000

Signs, Framed Pictures, Wall art stuff: 400

Lazy Boy reclinable love seat: 1200
Couch: 800
End Tables: 140
Computer desk: 100
Bar table and 3 stools: 300
Computer Chair: 75

Totals:

Speakers: 7407
Subs including finishing, all supplies needed to build, and amp: 3540
HSU MBM 12 mid bass module 500
Components including remote: 1505
Wires, cables, dedicated lines, interconnects, relay, etc: 1000
Screen/Projector: 1375
Computer stuff 1030
Room Treatments/riser/rack/mounts/Omnimic 2660
Pictures: 400
Furniture: 2615

22,032



Man... that's a lot. I never would have guessed that I've spend that much on this room. Before I added it all up I would have guessed around 15 grand. Yikes. eek.gif

I'm glad I added it all up though, I've always been curious what the total amount would be since I put this together slowly over a lot of time.
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post #51 of 1626 Old 10-26-2013, 12:15 PM
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Its funny how when you start adding everything up its always more than you would have thought. I keep a running spreadsheet for all my stuff and its always depressing watching that total creep up. I will have to post mine up in my thread sometime:).
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post #52 of 1626 Old 10-26-2013, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Its funny how when you start adding everything up its always more than you would have thought. I keep a running spreadsheet for all my stuff and its always depressing watching that total creep up. I will have to post mine up in my thread sometime:).


Will the shed count as part of the HT hobby expenditures? It has a lot of uses other than building stuff for HT so I would think that's a completely different category of expense.
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post #53 of 1626 Old 10-26-2013, 08:47 PM
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Will the shed count as part of the HT hobby expenditures? It has a lot of uses other than building stuff for HT so I would think that's a completely different category of expense.

Ugh, I actually have another spreadsheet tracking costs for that as well. By the time I'm finished building that out it may end up costing more than the theater.
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post #54 of 1626 Old 11-05-2013, 08:26 PM
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How far is it between the pole in the middle of the room to the wall on the other side of the seating? I think mine is pretty close to your same configuration in the basement. I am designing my basement HT and have been thinking about having the I-beam beefed up so I can remove the pole, but that is the price of some very nice audio gear.

Nice digs, Carp. Well done!
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post #55 of 1626 Old 11-06-2013, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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How far is it between the pole in the middle of the room to the wall on the other side of the seating? I think mine is pretty close to your same configuration in the basement. I am designing my basement HT and have been thinking about having the I-beam beefed up so I can remove the pole, but that is the price of some very nice audio gear.

Nice digs, Carp. Well done!


Thanks Doug!

The pole is 4 feet from the wall, the room is 17'3 wide and 23 feet long.

Oooh man, it would be so nice not to have it - like you though I don't want to spend the money on it.


You know you have to have some of us over sometime to hear the G-Horns!!! Of course you are welcome to come check out my room sometime too if you'd like. smile.gif
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post #56 of 1626 Old 11-09-2013, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I bought a Sony BDP-S5100 blu ray player since my Panasonic was having issues with reading some disks.

I set it up the new Sony last night and the receiver says, "PCM" instead of the usual DTS MA or DD True HD or whatever. I went in the menu and my only options are to have it set to "auto" or "pcm". I have it set to auto but the receiver still says "pcm".

Is this a bad thing that I'm getting the sound decoded to pcm instead of one of the high resolution formats?

This is why I hate buying new components, there are always little bugs and crap that I didn't have to deal with the component I'm replacing.

thanks guys for any help
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post #57 of 1626 Old 11-09-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I tried a few disks. Disks with dolby true hd sound just fine and normal and with those disks the receiver says, "dolby true hd" just like it always has.

Disks with DTS MA don't sound right. The receiver says "PCM" for these disks and the volume is lower than normal. Reference sounds more like -10 and the dynamics seem to be restrained like there is a dynamic range limiter on the player. I went in into the setttings of the sony player and there is no setting I can find for dynamic range.
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post #58 of 1626 Old 11-09-2013, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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post #59 of 1626 Old 11-09-2013, 01:21 PM
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Carp, PCM is absolutely fine!  PCM is slightly quieter than bitstream, but the quality of the audio is identical.  MikeDuke, Dmark1, Craig John, Pepar, and myself tested this out at a G2G earlier this year.  The diff is solely in the volume domain.  One or two clicks on the volume-up button will solve the issue.   (I'll try to find the discussion for you on either my thread or craig's thread.)

 

Edit: Check this post.  The discussion starts a little earlier, but this is where Bitstream/PCM became a deliberate point of focus for the G2G.

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post #60 of 1626 Old 11-09-2013, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Carp, PCM is absolutely fine!  PCM is slightly quieter than bitstream, but the quality of the audio is identical.  MikeDuke, Dmark1, Craig John, Pepar, and myself tested this out at a G2G earlier this year.  The diff is solely in the volume domain.  One or two clicks on the volume-up button will solve the issue.   (I'll try to find the discussion for you on either my thread or craig's thread.)

Edit: Check this post.  The discussion starts a little earlier, but this is where Bitstream/PCM became a deliberate point of focus for the G2G.

Oh, very cool thanks BB. That does kind of bug me though, I like to know where my volume is in relation to reference. I know it doesn't matter, but I know it will bug me.

I'll look through that thread - did you guys determine how many db's different it was? I guess I could figure it out myself by just doing a quick A/B with the 2 different blu ray players and record the spl's with my meter or omnimic.
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