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post #511 of 596 Old 10-16-2018, 09:59 AM
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My plan is to ultimately build a hush box (plan to hopefully upgrade to the NX9 once my 2yr daughter ships off to college in 16 years). The plan is to have Acoustic Frontiers design the hush box, and I’ll build it myself. So a pro hush box design plan is definitely something to think about. They do sell pre-fab hush boxes, but they cost half as much as your Trinnov!


EDIT: BTW—from what I understand, Tributaries and MHX Ethereal w/ Active source-side booster are the only fool-proof HDMI cables for this [email protected] generation. I’ve never owned the Tributaries, but can definitely vouch for the Metra MHX.

This is the Tributaries: https://www.tributariescable.com/products/UHDT

This is the Metra MHX: https://metrahometheater.com/hdmi-ca...x-lhdme15.html to be used with this accelerator: https://metrahometheater.com/hdr-4k-...s/hdm-ga1.html

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I have had absolutely zero dropouts with my celerity @ 35' distance as well, fwiw, however I have not attempted 4k60 on it as far as I know. Im not buying Billy Lynn just for that, so I'll have to get some sort of 4k streaming set up.

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post #512 of 596 Old 10-16-2018, 10:05 AM
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I have had absolutely zero dropouts with my celerity @ 35' distance as well, fwiw, however I have not attempted 4k60 on it as far as I know. Im not buying Billy Lynn just for that, so I'll have to get some sort of 4k streaming set up.
I also have the celerity running to my projector. It can't handle Billy Lynn. I thought it could until i tested it recently. Could just be my unit though.

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post #513 of 596 Old 10-16-2018, 10:17 AM
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I also have the celerity running to my projector. It can't handle Billy Lynn. I thought it could until i tested it recently. Could just be my unit though.

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Dangit. Guess I'll be attempting to sort that out sooner rather than later. Thanks Matt, thanks a lot...

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post #514 of 596 Old 10-16-2018, 10:22 AM
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Dangit. Guess I'll be attempting to sort that out sooner rather than later. Thanks Matt, thanks a lot...
Lol, don't lose hope! When Arrow AV brutally tested Celerity and its competitors (4 cables per manufacturer), a percent of the Celerities did work with [email protected], so it's sort of a shot in the dark depending on which cable you get. Yours might!

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post #515 of 596 Old 10-17-2018, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Simple answer to the 4K/60 issue .... DO NOT buy the Billy Lynn movie. I only did because I saw the reference here someplace (maybe on Matt's thread). I have yet to watch it but I have viewed a few of the early scenes and it is one VERY CLEAN colorful image. As a result of buying that movie, I have now spent the $20 for the movie, then another $50 for the Blue Jeans replacement cable and now another $150 for the newest cable. So that is pretty much $220 to watch one not-very-good movie !! Silly me!!
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post #516 of 596 Old 10-17-2018, 05:23 AM
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Simple answer to the 4K/60 issue .... DO NOT buy the Billy Lynn movie. I only did because I saw the reference here someplace (maybe on Matt's thread). I have yet to watch it but I have viewed a few of the early scenes and it is one VERY CLEAN colorful image. As a result of buying that movie, I have now spent the $20 for the movie, then another $50 for the Blue Jeans replacement cable and now another $150 for the newest cable. So that is pretty much $220 to watch one not-very-good movie !! Silly me!!


LOL, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck—as you know, the pursuit is never for the content, but for the capability to play the content if we so choose. Once the media content is procured, it MUST be playable. That is the unwritten law of an A/V enthusiast! If a buddy gives us a DSD file to listen to, and the system can’t playback DSD, then we will analyze the heck out of the system until we find the bottleneck and subsequently, SOMETHING is getting upgraded. It’s the expensive life we’ve chosen for ourselves. Lol.

I’ve only watched Billy Lynn once, and I’ll probably never watch it again....but it is pure visual splendor.

BTW—check out the scene where Billy Lynn and his unit marches with the band—the bass is powerful!


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post #517 of 596 Old 10-17-2018, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
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LOL, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck—as you know, the pursuit is never for the content, but for the capability to play the content if we so choose. Once the media content is procured, it MUST be playable. That is the unwritten law of an A/V enthusiast! If a buddy gives us a DSD file to listen to, and the system can’t playback DSD, then we will analyze the heck out of the system until we find the bottleneck and subsequently, SOMETHING is getting upgraded. It’s the expensive life we’ve chosen for ourselves. Lol.
Soooo much truth in the above!!

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BTW—check out the scene where Billy Lynn and his unit marches with the band—the bass is powerful!
I will do so when I finally get around to watching the movie. I have gone even MORE nuts since I decided to upgrade my PJ to be able to more successfully handle HDR. I have purchased so many new HDR movies (actually, not all new movies but new HDR versions of other movies) that I'm not sure when I will get to watch all of them.

Hi .... my name is Chuck and I'm an audio/video/media/diddling addict !!!
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post #518 of 596 Old 10-17-2018, 10:05 AM
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Soooo much truth in the above!!







I will do so when I finally get around to watching the movie. I have gone even MORE nuts since I decided to upgrade my PJ to be able to more successfully handle HDR. I have purchased so many new HDR movies (actually, not all new movies but new HDR versions of other movies) that I'm not sure when I will get to watch all of them.



Hi .... my name is Chuck and I'm an audio/video/media/diddling addict !!!

Ha—you are indeed an addict, as am I. the problem with our addiction is that we subconsciously seek encouragement, not help!

Are you still liking your Dune 4k player? I”m using Plex on an Nvidia Shield, and I like the interface, but I do prefer JRiver’s theater view—it was just soooo slick the way I had it customized. Having been one of the few folks I know to dabble in the Kscape eco-system, what does the Dune get right that Kscape didn’t, and vice versa?


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post #519 of 596 Old 10-17-2018, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Ha—you are indeed an addict, as am I. the problem with our addiction is that we subconsciously seek encouragement, not help!

Are you still liking your Dune 4k player? I”m using Plex on an Nvidia Shield, and I like the interface, but I do prefer JRiver’s theater view—it was just soooo slick the way I had it customized. Having been one of the few folks I know to dabble in the Kscape eco-system, what does the Dune get right that Kscape didn’t, and vice versa?


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The Dune gets way more wrong. It will not allow me, near as I can tell, to send a pure signal (no HDR conversion and no upscaling) to the projector. The interface leaves a LOT to be desired. The K system had it all (price notwithstanding) except timely access to all 4K movies, lack of access to some 4K movies, and some 4K movies that should have bee Atmos that were 5.1 until some time after you got the initial download. And the fact that if you download all your movies from them and they go "toes up" and your system breaks, not only will you have lost your hardware, you will have also lost access to every movie you bought from them. Some would have digital rights but those are all with compromised audio.

Interface wise, nothing is even close. The Apple TV could be the product but they don't support full bandwidth Atmos.

Short answer, I am only using the rather crappy interface of my Oppo to read my ripped files.
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post #520 of 596 Old 10-17-2018, 10:49 AM
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The Dune gets way more wrong. It will not allow me, near as I can tell, to send a pure signal (no HDR conversion and no upscaling) to the projector. The interface leaves a LOT to be desired. The K system had it all (price notwithstanding) except timely access to all 4K movies, lack of access to some 4K movies, and some 4K movies that should have bee Atmos that were 5.1 until some time after you got the initial download. And the fact that if you download all your movies from them and they go "toes up" and your system breaks, not only will you have lost your hardware, you will have also lost access to every movie you bought from them. Some would have digital rights but those are all with compromised audio.

Interface wise, nothing is even close. The Apple TV could be the product but they don't support full bandwidth Atmos.

Short answer, I am only using the rather crappy interface of my Oppo to read my ripped files.
Going to try something else like the Shield? Or will you stick with the Oppo for now?

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post #521 of 596 Old 10-17-2018, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Going to try something else like the Shield? Or will you stick with the Oppo for now?

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If the Shield has a 30 day return policy I might try it. As of now, the Oppo is my streaming device. Lousy interface but it works.

Why did you back away from your PC /J River Solution? Did it do HdR?
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post #522 of 596 Old 10-17-2018, 07:06 PM
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If the Shield has a 30 day return policy I might try it. As of now, the Oppo is my streaming device. Lousy interface but it works.

Why did you back away from your PC /J River Solution? Did it do HdR?
Trying to use my HTPC was a 4k video nightmare. HDR and color space reproduction--argh!!!

just to fix my performance issues, i'd need a video card thst costs more than the Nvidia Shield does. Other reports for 4k on Jriver (as of summertime) was that it wasn't ready for prime time due red October not being compatible, and i think some people had issues with madVR being too complex.

If you have any questions on the shield settings, menu or video/audio capabilities let me know and I'll shoot some video, save to Dropbox, and send you a link

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post #523 of 596 Old 10-18-2018, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Matt: Will the Shield let me send a 1080P image as 1080P or will it always up convert? I want a device that will send whatever the source is (color depth and resolution) to my PJ. No up converting SDR to HDR or 1080P to 4K.
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post #524 of 596 Old 10-18-2018, 02:09 PM
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Matt: Will the Shield let me send a 1080P image as 1080P or will it always up convert? I want a device that will send whatever the source is (color depth and resolution) to my PJ. No up converting SDR to HDR or 1080P to 4K.
I'll double-check tonight or tomorrow, but pretty sure i have the shield setup like that now (native resolution output), as my Lumagen does all upscaling when engaged via virtual inputs for some desired conditions. I'll let you know once i confirm..

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post #525 of 596 Old 11-10-2018, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Because this hobby is clearly an addiction (for me), I have a new mini-project in the works. I hope to finish in a couple of weeks.

When I decided to change the cosmetics in the room, I chose a quick and dirty approach for the front half of the side walls. I made three huge "panels" for each side to cover up either empty wall space or diffusion panels. This was all about getting the room a bit more consistent look and feel - and to get all surfaces near the screen black. And that worked, but it never was exactly what I wanted.

I have seen numerous theaters that had used multiple beveled panels in various sizes and colors to add some character and texture to the room and that is what I originally wanted and will be doing. When I did the original cosmetic redo, I had no way of easily cutting the bevels for the panels so went for function over form. I now have a solution to do that.
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post #526 of 596 Old 11-10-2018, 09:42 AM
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Because this hobby is clearly an addiction (for me), I have a new mini-project in the works. I hope to finish in a couple of weeks.

When I decided to change the cosmetics in the room, I chose a quick and dirty approach for the front half of the side walls. I made three huge "panels" for each side to cover up either empty wall space or diffusion panels. This was all about getting the room a bit more consistent look and feel - and to get all surfaces near the screen black. And that worked, but it never was exactly what I wanted.

I have seen numerous theaters that had used multiple beveled panels in various sizes and colors to add some character and texture to the room and that is what I originally wanted and will be doing. When I did the original cosmetic redo, I had no way of easily cutting the bevels for the panels so went for function over form. I now have a solution to do that.
Audioguy,

Looking forward for sure to see what you are doing once completed to your satisfaction.
Also, if I am correct Chad B. should be coming to see you maybe even this coming week

Once that takes place I hope you will post what you think afterwards ……….

Terry

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My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html
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post #527 of 596 Old 11-10-2018, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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ChadB will be here a week from tomorrow and I will post my thoughts once I have had time to view some content. I will also update my thread with new photos once the new panels are completed and installed.
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post #528 of 596 Old 11-15-2018, 04:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally decided to jump on the Roon music server/management software bandwagon so purchased a Sonic Transporter from Small Green Computer to run Roon Core. I evaluated using:

(1) The just announced Mac Mini (~ $700)
(2) An Intel NUC (~$500)
(3) The Roon Nucleus (~$1400)
(4) Small Green Computer Sonic Transporter i5 (~$780)

Clearly, based upon price, the Intel NUC was the right choice. And, based upon things I read and assistance I received from another AVSer, I was told that physically assembling the NUC (memory and SSD Drive), downloading and installing the OS, downloading and installing Roon Core was not at all difficult. BUT, given my history with "computers" and a couple of other theater "projects" I am involved in that are taking more time than they should, I decided to forgo the $300 savings and buy something that required zero assembly and zero software installation ... literally, plug 'n play. And, the entire design of this box was to serve as place to run Roon Core.

The downside to this solution: SGC is a small one-man (probably) company and the the OS is not generic so that if something happens I could end up having wasted this money. On the other hand, I had previously purchased amps from d-Sonic which costs a lot more than this box. So we shall see.

The Mac mini would have been a great choice because it could be come another desk top should I decide to no longer use Roon. I could see no real advantage of the Roon Nucleus.

Excited to get this thing up and running.
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post #529 of 596 Old 11-15-2018, 08:12 AM
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I tried to read up on roon and got basically nowhere. Their website is just a bunch of backdoor links and stuff that made absolutely no sense to me. Roon was the answer from another AVSer to a question I posed looking for a service that would allow me to pool all my music files, and clean them up/ get them all to the same format, but for the life of me I couldn't ever figure out how it actually worked... Will be interested in your findings here.

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post #530 of 596 Old 11-15-2018, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I tried to read up on roon and got basically nowhere. Their website is just a bunch of backdoor links and stuff that made absolutely no sense to me. Roon was the answer from another AVSer to a question I posed looking for a service that would allow me to pool all my music files, and clean them up/ get them all to the same format, but for the life of me I couldn't ever figure out how it actually worked... Will be interested in your findings here.
I didn't even bother to TRY a free version of Roon. I wanted to test it so that neither the interface nor performance was compromised. I have only read one negative comment on this product. EVERYONE else raves about how it changes the music listening experience. I am looking forward to a common interface for all of my music - my own Library and streaming services. In order to do some things that I had no interest in doing (like up-converting my music to DSD) I would have needed a more powerful processor. And if the device on which you are going to play the media can not receive the music over ethernet, there are some other boxes you need to buy to accomplish that. My Trinnov is "Dune Ready" so I didn't need that.

Once I have it up and running for a while, I will post my thoughts.
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post #531 of 596 Old 11-15-2018, 10:14 AM
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I didn't even bother to TRY a free version of Roon. I wanted to test it so that neither the interface nor performance was compromised. I have only read one negative comment on this product. EVERYONE else raves about how it changes the music listening experience. I am looking forward to a common interface for all of my music - my own Library and streaming services. In order to do some things that I had no interest in doing (like up-converting my music to DSD) I would have needed a more powerful processor. And if the device on which you are going to play the media can not receive the music over ethernet, there are some other boxes you need to buy to accomplish that. My Trinnov is "Dune Ready" so I didn't need that.

Once I have it up and running for a while, I will post my thoughts.
I'm pretty sure sonos is capable of running roon one way or another so I'd be in pretty good shape if that is the case. I need to dig back into it a little more.

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post #532 of 596 Old 11-15-2018, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm pretty sure sonos is capable of running roon one way or another so I'd be in pretty good shape if that is the case. I need to dig back into it a little more.
That will be nice since we have a Sonos in our family room.

See THIS link.

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post #533 of 596 Old 11-15-2018, 07:21 PM
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I tried to read up on roon and got basically nowhere. Their website is just a bunch of backdoor links and stuff that made absolutely no sense to me. Roon was the answer from another AVSer to a question I posed looking for a service that would allow me to pool all my music files, and clean them up/ get them all to the same format, but for the life of me I couldn't ever figure out how it actually worked... Will be interested in your findings here.
Just another vote for Roon. I am a happy user -- great ease of use, lossless sound quality.

Roon is not a format converter in that it will not create new files. But it will play a wide variety of source files either in native format or it can adapt them during playback to whatever hardware you have. The Sonos case, for example, requires downsampling everything to 16-bit and at most 48 kHz. For my system using the SSP-800, I have it leave everything untouched except for DSD files (from SACD) which are converted on the fly to 88.2 kHz. The DVD-A files remain in native 96 or 192 kHz, 24-bit.

Roon excels in ingesting content without "tags" or metadata, like .wav files (I had a lot of that from my CDs ripped with iTunes), and it makes it easy to identify "mystery" albums if you know the artist or album name.

I chose to run Roon on a basic Win7 HTPC I had on hand, which made it easy to connect to the SSP via HDMI.

If you can get past the website, and start the free trial, I think it will be worth the effort.

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post #534 of 596 Old 11-16-2018, 04:15 AM - Thread Starter
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The DVD-A files remain in native 96 or 192 kHz, 24-bit.
Thanks. Good to know about DVD-A files. I hope the Trinnov can accept them via ethernet since that is how it will receive all other files. Now I just need to find a program that will successfully rip them. Any recommendations?

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Roon excels in ingesting content without "tags" or metadata, like .wav files (I had a lot of that from my CDs ripped with iTunes), and it makes it easy to identify "mystery" albums if you know the artist or album name.
Also good to know. I have quite a few Albums that neither of my previous two ripping programs could identify.
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post #535 of 596 Old 11-16-2018, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Just another vote for Roon. I am a happy user -- great ease of use, lossless sound quality.

Roon is not a format converter in that it will not create new files. But it will play a wide variety of source files either in native format or it can adapt them during playback to whatever hardware you have. The Sonos case, for example, requires downsampling everything to 16-bit and at most 48 kHz. For my system using the SSP-800, I have it leave everything untouched except for DSD files (from SACD) which are converted on the fly to 88.2 kHz. The DVD-A files remain in native 96 or 192 kHz, 24-bit.

Roon excels in ingesting content without "tags" or metadata, like .wav files (I had a lot of that from my CDs ripped with iTunes), and it makes it easy to identify "mystery" albums if you know the artist or album name.

I chose to run Roon on a basic Win7 HTPC I had on hand, which made it easy to connect to the SSP via HDMI.

If you can get past the website, and start the free trial, I think it will be worth the effort.

Well, Im sold. I'll get into the free trial after thanksgiving when I have more time to digest it all. I've got a laptop that stays on 24/7 in the HT that holds all my music files and typically runs sonos, so I could easily pop Roon on there and see how it all goes. If I understand correctly, the interface (and phone app) would just supercede the sonos apps while still connecting to those "Outputs" being the sonos connects... Sounds like a cake walk

Sorry to thread jack Chuck!
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post #536 of 596 Old 11-16-2018, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Thanks. Good to know about DVD-A files. I hope the Trinnov can accept them via ethernet since that is how it will receive all other files. Now I just need to find a program that will successfully rip them. Any recommendations?
I purchased DVD Audio Extractor for its ease of use. One time I had a disc (Gaucho) that would not produce outputs for the stereo tracks, and that was solved with DVD Audio Explorer, which is not as pretty but offers more options and is free.

Quote:
I have quite a few Albums that neither of my previous two ripping programs could identify.
Roon might initially show you a generic gray box instead of the album info, but they made it super easy to correct those cases, as well as to resolve duplicate album entries triggered by having the same song from different sources. We can discuss all that once you get'er going.

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post #537 of 596 Old 11-17-2018, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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ChadB just left and while I have yet to watch any full movie, the first thing that is very obvious is that the color pop if far better - which I thought was incredible prior to his work. He fine tuned my Panamorph lens and set both focus and convergence razor tight.

It was clearly worth the money for the 8+ hours he spent. He calibrated SDR at mid laser and HDR at mid and high laser. If I can get a hush box built I would only use high laser (really audibly intrusive) for those particularly dark movies, otherwise, mid laser is more than adequate.

EDIT: We ended up watching a few episodes one of our current Netflix series (Scandal) via our 4K Apple TV. Blown away by what we saw. More importantly, my wife was more than impressed. This in now the 4th change I have made in the theater where she has actually been able to tell the difference (That is out of about 8 major upgrades. All but one of those where she could tell were projector upgrades). It was the most 3 dimensional cleanest and sharpest video image I have ever seen on any projector anywhere. My wife noted that she could even see the very faint patterns in one of the characters's dress shirts. As a note, this program is broadcast in 1080P and SDR - but you sure could have fooled me/us. What an amazing projector and what a great job Chad did in fine tuning an already amazing product.

Pumped.

Is there a way to insert a USB thumb drive into the projector and copy every single setting in it so that if I have to have it repaired and lose all of the work he did I can recover??? Maybe using the JVC Autocal program?? Given Chad's very busy schedule, getting him back here to do another calibration could be well over a year!!

Last edited by audioguy; 11-18-2018 at 02:54 AM.
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post #538 of 596 Old 11-18-2018, 10:04 AM
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Red face



Audioguy,

Thanks for your post above ^^^
I was hoping you might share with us RS4500 owners what you thought after Chad B did his thing.


Quote:
It was clearly worth the money for the 8+ hours he spent.
He calibrated SDR at mid laser and HDR at mid and high laser.
If I can get a hush box built I would only use high laser
(really audibly intrusive) for those particularly dark movies, otherwise, mid laser is more than adequate.

So, be Blunt, please with your Reply.
If noise was not any issue at all ???
Would you only use High-Laser 100% of the time ???
I Do-Not have any issue at all with running mine on High-Laser that's why I am asking and I think you will answer exactly as you feel.

I'm glad you are totally satisfied with your images now buddy.

Terry

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My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html

Last edited by tigerhonaker; 11-18-2018 at 10:11 AM. Reason: Additional thoughts and questions ...........
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post #539 of 596 Old 11-18-2018, 10:43 AM
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Admittedly, I have never heard of "Chad B", but based on your enthusiastic recommendation I may have to put his services in my flex budget when I get up and running, assuming I get a projector which deserves 8 hours of calibration service like your RS4500.

Add a Roon to that list as well!
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post #540 of 596 Old 11-18-2018, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
If noise was not any issue at all ???
Would you only use High-Laser 100% of the time ???

Terry
I would NOT use high laser 100% of the time if noise were no issue. On the vast majority of HDR movies, it just isn't necessary. To your eyes, you may perceive it differently and want more lumens. And sometimes, even high laser won't brighten up a super dark screen (Think of some of the scenes in Bladerunner 2049).

Your situation is different than mine. Your screen is probably greater than unity gain BUT, you don't have the Panamorph lens which add about 30% more light.

But just like most everything else in the hobby, everyone has their own preference. And you may prefer to use high laser for everything you watch.
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