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post #601 of 663 Old 08-02-2019, 05:01 AM
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Sure man—I’d be happy to walk you through the process Of demo creation. I ended up creating a playlist for DTM in 4k demos called: Demo: Dynamic Tone Mapping.

Access my Plex library and take some of those scenes for a stroll. I agree—everything looks clearer and sharper with DTM engaged. For a great picture, audio, and a video that immediately appeared clearer and sharper after DTM, try “Greatest Showman - Never Enough” Takes place in a dimly lit auditorium with a spotlight and great skin tone definition.

Play it at reference, and have the wife watch too.


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post #602 of 663 Old 08-02-2019, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Sure man—I’d be happy to walk you through the process Of demo creation. I ended up creating a playlist for DTM in 4k demos called: Demo: Dynamic Tone Mapping.

Access my Plex library and take some of those scenes for a stroll. I agree—everything looks clearer and sharper with DTM engaged. For a great picture, audio, and a video that immediately appeared clearer and sharper after DTM, try “Greatest Showman - Never Enough” Takes place in a dimly lit auditorium with a spotlight and great skin tone definition.

Play it at reference, and have the wife watch too.
Thanks. Will do. My wife was already a huge fan of the projector so she could not imagine why I "needed" this capability
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post #603 of 663 Old 08-02-2019, 05:08 AM
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New House - New Theater

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Thanks. Will do. My wife was already a huge fan of the projector so she could not imagine why I "needed" this capability


No problem! Yeah, play that scene for her—she will be captivated by the beautiful song, the visuals, and the “experience.” Have Craig sit in too. Also, definitely try the “Sicario 2 -Spec Ops” scene. For me, that’s the scene that changed the most drastically after installing DTM.

Edit: The Playlist might be called “HDR Performance Tests” but i think I named it Demo: Dynamic Tone Mapping. Those were the two names I was bouncing between.


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post #604 of 663 Old 08-02-2019, 05:56 AM
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Thank you for the kind comments. My room design is "function over form" so not nearly as attractive as many others on this forum. But the image and sound give me what I wanted.

I've known Scott for about 23 years. I was the Marketing Director for Cambridge Signal Technology who designed, built and sold the SigTech digital room correction product and he became a dealer for that product. He then became a customer of mine for another (non audio) business that I owned. In the last 4 or 5 years, I have done the audio calibrations for those clients of his who have purchased a Datasat or Trinnov - he trusts my ears and skill sets. He runs a very successful business.

What is your connection to Scott?
Very cool! Scott is my first cousin and has helped me in my build with many of the components I use. Small world!

Again, awesome space. I can only imagine the quality you get out of your impressive list of equipment! And I think the "form" looks great!

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post #605 of 663 Old 08-06-2019, 04:27 AM - Thread Starter
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The technology is already there. Do a google search of “Deepfake.” It’s a bit unnerving—especially what one guy did in superimposing Steve Buscemi’s face onto Jennifer Lawrence’s head/body. It looks REAL....and it was done, not in a Hollywood studio, but in someone’s house!
WOW. Interesting but super scary stuff. I watched a TED Talk on this.

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I am a little upset that True Lies was never released on Blu Ray. In my opinion, it’s one of the greatest action movies ever made. It has EVERYTHING in it!!!! I hope to see it eventually in 4k....please, no film grain on Jamie-Lee Curtis’ hotel scene!
"The Abyss" was made for 3D audio, since most of it was done below water. It was also made for 4K/HDR. I just hope I live long enough to see both of these end up on an immersive audio/4K HDR disc

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Hey, sub-twin...Did you adjust your listening mode for Alita? I started watching in my Ultra mode and the first bass note when the garbage was falling at the very beginning of the movie had my ear drums quaking....had to quickly had to switch to the more conventional “flat, minimal bass shelf” listening mode that I use for music. I think the 4k discs is 9db hotter than the Blu Ray disc.
I only have one LFE setting. I have experimented and experimented and experimented with I can't remember how many target curves over the last 6 years. This one is as good as I want it to be without spending my life creating one target curve per movie!
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post #606 of 663 Old 08-06-2019, 04:58 AM
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WOW. Interesting but super scary stuff. I watched a TED Talk on this.







"The Abyss" was made for 3D audio, since most of it was done below water. It was also made for 4K/HDR. I just hope I live long enough to see both of these end up on an immersive audio/4K HDR disc







I only have one LFE setting. I have experimented and experimented and experimented with I can't remember how many target curves over the last 6 years. This one is as good as I want it to be without spending my life creating one target curve per movie!


Yeah man, it’s uber scary!!

I’ve actually never seen the Abyss—would you recommend it from a story standpoint? I can watch it on Amazon Prime, but I always skip over it.

Ahh, one LFE setting? Then you truly have reached nirvana. I do have some midrange changes in my modes as well (particularly the Music setting) but have three different bass levels—mostly shelf related below 30Hz.

Sounds like you’re completely dialed in for both audio and video... any G2Gs in your future? I have Priceline dot com saved in my favorites menu for events such as this! Lol.


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post #607 of 663 Old 08-06-2019, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah man, it’s uber scary!!

I’ve actually never seen the Abyss—would you recommend it from a story standpoint? I can watch it on Amazon Prime, but I always skip over it.

Ahh, one LFE setting? Then you truly have reached nirvana. I do have some midrange changes in my modes as well (particularly the Music setting) but have three different bass levels—mostly shelf related below 30Hz.

Sounds like you’re completely dialed in for both audio and video... any G2Gs in your future? I have Priceline dot com saved in my favorites menu for events such as this! Lol.
The Abyss (ONLY The Directors Cut), is one of my very favorite movies. There is just something about it that I really enjoyed. The first time I saw it, I thought it was a lousy movie but then I saw the Directors Cut (on Laser Disc) and then it all made sense and became a completely different film. If you can't find the Directors Cut, don't bother watching it!

Well for movies I only have one LFE setting. But I have two for music and a fourth for Concert Videos. Since concert videos are not recorded under the "rules" of movies, the bass is always way too hot. And since I am a huge fan of 70's rock, and since on virtually all of those recording the bass is anemic, I have one with the bass pumped up just a tad.

As it relates to GTGs: I have had lots of visitors in my last 3 theaters. The closest thing I have had that might be considered a GTG, was during an Atlanta CEDIA, where Mark Seaton, @Peter M , Itai Ben-Gal of iRule fame and one other individual whose name escapes me at the moment came by to hear my all Seaton system. I only have 4 seats and one of them is awful since there is the left surround sitting in your ear (and where I sit when we have guests).

But while I have not ever thought about having an official GTG, most folks are welcome to get in touch with me and request a visit. But since I am 1.5 hours east of Atlanta, I am not very convenient.

But as a warning to anyone who does visit, and the cost of the visit notwithstanding, the last two visitors left my home and spent a rather substantive amount of $$ for new equipment. In fact, both purchased Trinnov's and the attendant stuff that goes with them (amps, etc).

And yes, the theater is pretty well dialed in. There are some recommended setting changes on the Lumagen thread posted by Jim Peterson which I may implement, but short of that, nothing left to do. Well almost nothing. Since, over the last few years I have swapped out almost every piece of equipment I owned, the back of my equipment rack is a MESS. The last time I cleaned it up took eight 10 hour days, so I'm not looking forward to getting started.

So given no new toys to buy, I am spending more money on movies - both new and re-purchases of older movies that have been remastered to 4K/HDR and usually with improved audio. My most recent purchase (that has yet to arrive) is "The Hulk" with Ed Norton. Based upon a number of reviews I have read, the audio is incredibly immersive (DTS:X) and the video is greatly improved as well.

So come visit, I would love to meet you and help you spend more of your money.
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post #608 of 663 Old 08-06-2019, 09:33 AM
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My only saving grace that our systems are somewhat similar. I am scared that if I see your projector in action, I might start selling important things to help fund it!

BTW, meant to ask—were the DTM clips on Plex helpful? Could be Craig Rounds has his own, much better battery of tests. If so, could you share what they were?


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post #609 of 663 Old 08-06-2019, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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My only saving grace that our systems are somewhat similar. I am scared that if I see your projector in action, I might start selling important things to help fund it!

BTW, meant to ask—were the DTM clips on Plex helpful? Could be Craig Rounds has his own, much better battery of tests. If so, could you share what they were?


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My Shield/Plex system is busted due to the new firmware update, so looking at your HDR titles will have to wait!!

But lest you forget, there is one huge audio difference in our two systems. Regardless of how good your processor is (and it is excellent) I am very comfortable that it won't do what the Trinnov will. In fact, nothing else will. You can replace the bulb in your PJ, have someone calibrate your projector/Lumagen and get by very nicely for quite some time. But you don't want to hear the Trinnov (picture here: money flying out of your wallet) - I promise!!

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post #610 of 663 Old 08-06-2019, 04:57 PM
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My Shield/Plex system is busted due to the new firmware update, so looking at your HDR titles will have to wait!!



But lest you forget, there is one huge audio difference in our two systems. Regardless of how good your processor is (and it is excellent) I am very comfortable that it won't do what the Trinnov will. In fact, nothing else will. You can replace the bulb in your PJ, have someone calibrate your projector/Lumagen and get by very nicely for quite some time. But you don't want to hear the Trinnov (picture here: money flying out of your wallet) - I promise!!
I concur... There is simply no substitute for 100% native. If onlyyyy the 16 had a few more channels...But that's a $35k difference..... And I'm thinking about going Porsche when my current vehicles is paid off. Whatever I don't get for the theater in the next year or so will probably never be "got!"

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post #611 of 663 Old 08-06-2019, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I concur... There is simply no substitute for 100% native. If onlyyyy the 16 had a few more channels...But that's a $35k difference..... And I'm thinking about going Porsche when my current vehicles is paid off. Whatever I don't get for the theater in the next year or so will probably never be "got!"
You've been at this long enough to know the word "never" should not be used when speaking about equipment changes/upgrades

I thought you had 9 bed channels and 9 heights?

I'm a big Porche fan. First owned a 944, then three 911's (Cabriolet, Targa, and Coupe) and then a Boxter - and the Boxter was easily my favorite. I want to get another Boxter but but my wife won't drive a manual shift. Very fun cars to drive.
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post #612 of 663 Old 08-07-2019, 02:59 AM
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You've been at this long enough to know the word "never" should not be used when speaking about equipment changes/upgrades



I thought you had 9 bed channels and 9 heights?



I'm a big Porche fan. First owned a 944, then three 911's (Cabriolet, Targa, and Coupe) and then a Boxter - and the Boxter was easily my favorite. I want to get another Boxter but but my wife won't drive a manual shift. Very fun cars to drive.
Waitttt.... You liked the boxter more than the 911's? This is why I shouldn't believe everything I see on YouTube. I can't stand manual... Id get their automatic, which actually shifts faster than a human can.

I have 11 bed and six heights, along with two sub locations (four onfront wall EQd as one, and four on rear wall EQd as one).

and you are definitely right. I should know better by now to say anything like "never"....the journey will never end! I'll be in Heaven doing spirals, using my wings like the blades in a rotary subwoofer. Lolol

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post #613 of 663 Old 08-07-2019, 04:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Waitttt.... You liked the boxter more than the 911's? This is why I shouldn't believe everything I see on YouTube. I can't stand manual... Id get their automatic, which actually shifts faster than a human can.
It's is not the speed of the shifting I am interested in, but the "experience " of the shifting. I just have trouble saying "sports car"and "automatic transmission" in the same sentence. BUT, I may go drive one and see what it is like. And If I end up buying one, it will be your fault To the extent you want to delay the purchase of one of these cars, don't test drive one!!!!!

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I have 11 bed and six heights, along with two sub locations (four onfront wall EQd as one, and four on rear wall EQd as one).
Two channel short! (you would need the miniDSP to deal with the subs in that case - which you no longer have and is still in the box it was sent to me in)

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and you are definitely right. I should know better by now to say anything like "never"....the journey will never end! I'll be in Heaven doing spirals, using my wings like the blades in a rotary subwoofer. Lolol
Yep. That pretty much sums it up.
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post #614 of 663 Old 08-07-2019, 07:07 AM
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My Shield/Plex system is busted due to the new firmware update, so looking at your HDR titles will have to wait!!

But lest you forget, there is one huge audio difference in our two systems. Regardless of how good your processor is (and it is excellent) I am very comfortable that it won't do what the Trinnov will. In fact, nothing else will. You can replace the bulb in your PJ, have someone calibrate your projector/Lumagen and get by very nicely for quite some time. But you don't want to hear the Trinnov (picture here: money flying out of your wallet) - I promise!!
Yea that settles it for me. Im not coming....ever. I haven't heard a trinnov yet, and don't plan to until I am sliding it into my very own rack.
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post #615 of 663 Old 08-07-2019, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Yea that settles it for me. Im not coming....ever. I haven't heard a trinnov yet, and don't plan to until I am sliding it into my very own rack.
When you get to that point, you will be one happy camper.
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post #616 of 663 Old 08-07-2019, 08:55 AM
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Yea that settles it for me. Im not coming....ever. I haven't heard a trinnov yet, and don't plan to until I am sliding it into my very own rack.


Beast, we need to stick together. If you see me talking all crazy about visiting Chuck, you have to step in and stop me. I will do the same if I see you posting about visiting. We need to avoid his house like the fiscal plague!


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post #617 of 663 Old 08-07-2019, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Beast, we need to stick together. If you see me talking all crazy about visiting Chuck, you have to step in and stop me. I will do the same if I see you posting about visiting. We need to avoid his house like the fiscal plague!
Probably a wise move. The "lust" factor certainly increases when you actually experience a product (e.g. drive a Porche, look at a new home; listen to/watch a home theater, etc).

I can't even imagine how much money I would have saved had I never heard about AVSForum. In fact, every product in my rack and in my room is a direct result of this website (and I, too, visited someone once (who posts on this website) and immediately bought speakers like his).

Dangerous stuff!!
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post #618 of 663 Old 08-07-2019, 11:41 AM
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Beast, we need to stick together. If you see me talking all crazy about visiting Chuck, you have to step in and stop me. I will do the same if I see you posting about visiting. We need to avoid his house like the fiscal plague!


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Yea you gotta get past me to get to him on the interstate so I will be sure just to intercept one way or another.

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Probably a wise move. The "lust" factor certainly increases when you actually experience a product (e.g. drive a Porche, look at a new home; listen to/watch a home theater, etc).

I can't even imagine how much money I would have saved had I never heard about AVSForum. In fact, every product in my rack and in my room is a direct result of this website (and I, too, visited someone once (who posts on this website) and immediately bought speakers like his).

Dangerous stuff!!
Isn't all that the truth. Still think my greatest achievement was completely inadvertently getting you to purchase that 4500 though. I didn't even mention the thing and still somehow take the blame, lol.

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post #619 of 663 Old 08-07-2019, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Still think my greatest achievement was completely inadvertently getting you to purchase that 4500 though. I didn't even mention the thing and still somehow take the blame, lol.
Blame now = credit. After having the Lumangen/RS4500 calibrated, I am blown away by the image. Some of the HDR images are simply stunning.

So THANKS !!
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post #620 of 663 Old 08-09-2019, 07:04 AM
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Blame now = credit. After having the Lumangen/RS4500 calibrated, I am blown away by the image. Some of the HDR images are simply stunning.

So THANKS !!
I would have totally tried to get on Craig's schedule while he was making the rounds (pun intended) and tried my best to coerce him into coming up to Asheville for a calibration. I really, REALLY need to get a good calibration done now that the nx7 is going to be staying for a long while... While my own settings look good, I know there is much more to get out of the machine.

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post #621 of 663 Old 08-09-2019, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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The NX 7 and 9 are apparently great projectors. I think both Kris Deering and Craig Rounds have RS3000/NX9, and Kris has stated he believes the RS3000 to be superior in many ways to the RS4500. And according to Craig, who left my home to calibrate an RS2000/Lumagen, he thinks the RS2000/NX7 is about as close as you can imagine to the NX9. If it were not for my choosing to make a "life long purchase" and, hence the laser based 4500, the NX7 would have been my choice.

Apparently a really wonderful machine!!
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post #622 of 663 Old 08-11-2019, 06:38 AM
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The NX 7 and 9 are apparently great projectors. I think both Kris Deering and Craig Rounds have RS3000/NX9, and Kris has stated he believes the RS3000 to be superior in many ways to the RS4500. And according to Craig, who left my home to calibrate an RS2000/Lumagen, he thinks the RS2000/NX7 is about as close as you can imagine to the NX9. If it were not for my choosing to make a "life long purchase" and, hence the laser based 4500, the NX7 would have been my choice.



Apparently a really wonderful machine!!
Wait...the NX7? Really? I have some thinking to do...

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post #623 of 663 Old 08-11-2019, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Wait...the NX7? Really? I have some thinking to do...
Had I not been willing to buy my "last projector", the NX7 would have been my choice. Until the RS4500, I HAVE NEVER bought the top of the line projector. Calibrated PROFESSIONALLY by one of the guys who really knows their stuff (e.g. Craig Rounds or Kris Derring or ...), I would bet you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between a NX7 and NX9 if they were not sitting right next to each other.. And the price difference would easily pay for the calibration (and a Panamorph lens if desired).

But that's just me (being my practical self). And I am willing to bet that laser projectors will continue drop in price and by the time you get tired of an NX7, laser will be the obvious choice.
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post #624 of 663 Old 08-12-2019, 06:53 AM
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Wait...the NX7? Really? I have some thinking to do...

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Had I not been willing to buy my "last projector", the NX7 would have been my choice. Until the RS4500, I HAVE NEVER bought the top of the line projector. Calibrated PROFESSIONALLY by one of the guys who really knows their stuff (e.g. Craig Rounds or Kris Derring or ...), I would bet you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between a NX7 and NX9 if they were not sitting right next to each other.. And the price difference would easily pay for the calibration (and a Panamorph lens if desired).

But that's just me (being my practical self). And I am willing to bet that laser projectors will continue drop in price and by the time you get tired of an NX7, laser will be the obvious choice.
Having owned the last 4 lines of JVC Pj's in their "Mid level" model i.e. rs500,520,540 and now nx7, I will back these statements up 100%. The more I watch the nx7, the less subtle I feel the move was up from the prior e-shift PJ's. As long as you don't need the additional brightness the 4500 provides for the larger screens, the nx7 is a incredible image. Running 120" wide scope on a ~1.1 gain screen I have no issues with brightness to say the least. I haven't even gotten my PJ calibrated yet but straight out of the box it throws a pretty incredible image.

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post #625 of 663 Old 08-12-2019, 07:14 AM
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Hmmm....I’m running the JVC RS520, but didn’t realize the NX7 came so close. I do need a lot of output for my screen, but if the NX7 matches the RS520, I’m happy with that! The last few posts really have me pondering the NX7. The NX9 would be nice, but it sounds like the differences may not be large enough to justify. The RS4500 is so far from my current budgetary capabilities (saving down payment for a rather exotic mode of transportation), even if the RS4500 had a million lumens, I’d still have to watch from the sidelines! Lol.


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post #626 of 663 Old 08-12-2019, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Having owned the last 4 lines of JVC Pj's in their "Mid level" model i.e. rs500,520,540 and now nx7, I will back these statements up 100%. The more I watch the nx7, the less subtle I feel the move was up from the prior e-shift PJ's. As long as you don't need the additional brightness the 4500 provides for the larger screens, the nx7 is a incredible image. Running 120" wide scope on a ~1.1 gain screen I have no issues with brightness to say the least. I haven't even gotten my PJ calibrated yet but straight out of the box it throws a pretty incredible image.
I just spent my first weekend with my NX7. I came from a well calibrated RS500 and I couldn't agree more with the out of the box picture the NX7 throws. Both standard blu-rays and 4K.
The great thing, like Beast said, is the brightness seems to be a lot better than I was expecting....and I have been running mine in low lamp mode.
Looking forward to seeing what a calibration brings to the table.

Now if I could afford that Trinnov everyone keeps talking about.
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post #627 of 663 Old 08-12-2019, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Importantly, the difference in MSRP price between the NX7 and NX9 (~$10,000) will pay for a Lumagen OR a Panamorph (with some strong negotiation, maybe almost both). Then it becomes no contest. The Panamorph buys you 30% to 38% light increase depending on which of the two lens you buy, and of course the Lumagen buys you DTM, improved upscaling, etc. And, both the Lumagen and Panamorph can be used with any future projector you might end up with.

Of course, if you are like Brolic, then the Panamorph doesn't buy you as much unless he chooses to leave the "dark side" and come permanently join us of the scope crowd.
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post #628 of 663 Old 08-12-2019, 10:50 AM
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Shoot, Im still using my paltry little uh380 with pretty solid results... It's better than nothing! The slight curvature I see at the screen edges is really only noticeable when looking at patterns or ESPN with the scrolling bar at the bottom. Normal movie content, the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

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post #629 of 663 Old 08-12-2019, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Shoot, Im still using my paltry little uh380 with pretty solid results... It's better than nothing! The slight curvature I see at the screen edges is really only noticeable when looking at patterns or ESPN with the scrolling bar at the bottom. Normal movie content, the benefits far outweigh the negatives.
Do you have or are you thinking of getting a Lumagen? I have the curve as well but I just use a small amount of over-scan and "presto", it is not noticeable.
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post #630 of 663 Old 08-12-2019, 11:28 AM
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Do you have or are you thinking of getting a Lumagen? I have the curve as well but I just use a small amount of over-scan and "presto", it is not noticeable.
I don't have a lumagen, nor the coin to drop on one at least at the moment...or likely in the near future. With a little lady on the way, my priorities will be changing pretty drastically

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