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post #631 of 663 Old 08-12-2019, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I don't have a lumagen, nor the coin to drop on one at least at the moment...or likely in the near future. With a little lady on the way, my priorities will be changing pretty drastically
That's great news. And that little lady will provide you a lot more joy and entertainment than a Lumagen or most anything else.

Congrats!!
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post #632 of 663 Old 08-13-2019, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I don't have a lumagen, nor the coin to drop on one at least at the moment...or likely in the near future. With a little lady on the way, my priorities will be changing pretty drastically


We just had two little ladies back to back—and I’ll definitely recommend sitting out on any major upgrades for a while. You won’t have time to use your theater for a month or two—maybe more. Even if you have time, you’ll be so tired you won’t want to. (If you already have kids, then you already know this!) Congratulations on the pending princess’ entry into the world!


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post #633 of 663 Old 08-13-2019, 04:13 AM
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New House - New Theater

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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
I just spent my first weekend with my NX7. I came from a well calibrated RS500 and I couldn't agree more with the out of the box picture the NX7 throws. Both standard blu-rays and 4K.

The great thing, like Beast said, is the brightness seems to be a lot better than I was expecting....and I have been running mine in low lamp mode.

Looking forward to seeing what a calibration brings to the table.



Now if I could afford that Trinnov everyone keeps talking about.


Coach! What’s up man...I have a question for you, @audioguy , and @beastaudio : In terms of resolution, was the difference between the 4k-Eshift of your previous generation projectors and the Native 4k of your current projectors a significant one? Like—looking at them one after the other (not side by side), would the uptick in resolution be blatantly obvious? This might be the deciding factor, as I’m honestly VERY satisfied with my JVC RS520 (from the mid-2017 model year that you guys recently upgraded from).

I know it will certainly be better, but is it night and day?


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post #634 of 663 Old 08-13-2019, 04:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Coach! What’s up man...I have a question for you, @audioguy , and @beastaudio : In terms of resolution, was the difference between the 4k-Eshift of your previous generation projectors and the Native 4k of your current projectors a significant one? Like—looking at them one after the other (not side by side), would the uptick in resolution be blatantly obvious? This might be the deciding factor, as I’m honestly VERY satisfied with my JVC RS520 (from the mid-2017 model year that you guys recently upgraded from).

I know it will certainly be better, but is it night and day?
I'm not qualified to respond as I was just passing along what Craig Owens had told me.
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post #635 of 663 Old 08-13-2019, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I'm not qualified to respond as I was just passing along what Craig Owens had told me.


I was asking regarding your RS4500 as well. We know its light output, color capability, P3, and resolution are superior....

But was the resolution piece night and day (if viewed in sequence as opposed to next to each other) vs. your RS500 w/ eshift? Really trying to determine how close eShift comes to native.


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post #636 of 663 Old 08-13-2019, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I was asking regarding your RS4500 as well. We know its light output, color capability, P3, and resolution are superior....

But was the resolution piece night and day (if viewed in sequence as opposed to next to each other) vs. your RS500 w/ eshift? Really trying to determine how close eShift comes to native.
In that case, a "way beyond night and day difference". And it didn't need to "viewed in sequence". There was quite some time between when I had the RS500 and when the RS4500 was installed. And even my wife could see the huge improvement. But remember the lens system in the RS4500 is much different than that in the 500 (and probably cost as much as the entire RS500) and, of course a different light source. It is obvious in the "crispness" of lettering, and anything else you look at.

That said, I'm not convinced it is just the difference between eShift and true 4K. There is a lot more involved I think but you would probably need to pose that question to someone like Craig Rounds or Kris Deering or .....
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post #637 of 663 Old 08-13-2019, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Coach! What’s up man...I have a question for you, @audioguy , and @beastaudio : In terms of resolution, was the difference between the 4k-Eshift of your previous generation projectors and the Native 4k of your current projectors a significant one? Like—looking at them one after the other (not side by side), would the uptick in resolution be blatantly obvious? This might be the deciding factor, as I’m honestly VERY satisfied with my JVC RS520 (from the mid-2017 model year that you guys recently upgraded from).

I know it will certainly be better, but is it night and day?


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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
In that case, a "way beyond night and day difference". And it didn't need to "viewed in sequence". There was quite some time between when I had the RS500 and when the RS4500 was installed. And even my wife could see the huge improvement. But remember the lens system in the RS4500 is much different than that in the 500 (and probably cost as much as the entire RS500) and, of course a different light source. It is obvious in the "crispness" of lettering, and anything else you look at.

That said, I'm not convinced it is just the difference between eShift and true 4K. There is a lot more involved I think but you would probably need to pose that question to someone like Craig Rounds or Kris Deering or .....

The proof is in the pudding, or in this case, the QBF pattern when tested side by side. The level of detail and sharpness you can achieve is substantially better using the new true 4K panels. Now with an actual video source and not a test pattern some would argue the difference is diminished, but IMO, it aint much and though I never tested the QBF pattern side by side with my own rs540, I don't doubt the test results one bit. The new JVC's are able to resolve the smallest text probably twice better than the eshift models.... and after having a Sony and Epson ls10k laser before my run of 4 JVC's, ALL FOUR of them never seemed to have the "calmness" to the image that the Epson had to it, nor the Sony but to a lesser degree. I believe this is a combination of not only sharpness but motion too, which was something I was seriously pining for and not something JVC has puffed their chest up about when comparing themselves to other machines. They've made incredible strides in both cases IMO.

FWIW the top tier jvc nx9/rs3000 shares the same lens as the 4500, and SHOULD resolve more detail than the lower models, but as has already been mentioned, I think the difference there, as opposed the the money savings and addition of a paladin lens to an nx3/rs2000 to be about the same cost would still beat out the much better lens.

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post #638 of 663 Old 08-13-2019, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Coach! What’s up man...I have a question for you, @audioguy , and @beastaudio : In terms of resolution, was the difference between the 4k-Eshift of your previous generation projectors and the Native 4k of your current projectors a significant one? Like—looking at them one after the other (not side by side), would the uptick in resolution be blatantly obvious? This might be the deciding factor, as I’m honestly VERY satisfied with my JVC RS520 (from the mid-2017 model year that you guys recently upgraded from).

I know it will certainly be better, but is it night and day?


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I was coming from the RS500, which I think had a slightly less light output(but probably nothing that was noticeable).
So far everything I have thrown at the NX7 just looks "cleaner". I am still playing with different setup configurations with the projector and my Panasonic UB9000. Then in a few weeks I am hoping to have it calibrated by Chad B. That is when I feel like it will look its best and will really be able to give a good review.

The NX9 was tempting, but not affordable for me. The idea of going with NX7 and then down the road, I can add a lens if I want. My guess is I won't since I am sure I will want something else instead.
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post #639 of 663 Old 08-13-2019, 10:50 AM
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@audioguy , @beastaudio , @COACH2369 , thank you for your responses. I'm very seriously planning my next move. I wonder what I can get for the RS520 these days. If it's too low, I'll keep it and put it in the gym!

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post #640 of 663 Old 08-13-2019, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
@audioguy , @beastaudio , @COACH2369 , thank you for your responses. I'm very seriously planning my next move. I wonder what I can get for the RS520 these days. If it's too low, I'll keep it and put it in the gym!

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Like the 540, you should get a decent amount for it as the 540 actually ended up being very sought after once the new units hit and they decided to discontinue the 540 even though it was originally still in the new lineup. JVC basically had to kill it off only to keep up with the demand of the new units...otherwise it would still be a current available model likely.

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post #641 of 663 Old 08-13-2019, 03:52 PM
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@audioguy , @beastaudio , @COACH2369 , thank you for your responses. I'm very seriously planning my next move. I wonder what I can get for the RS520 these days. If it's too low, I'll keep it and put it in the gym!

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I was able to sell my RS500 really quickly, but I probably had it a little lower priced that most.
Definitely lucked out because I sold it locally and didn't have to ship it.

Ended up with 4-5 offers within the first 2 days of listing it.
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post #642 of 663 Old 08-13-2019, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Stick a new bulb in one of those projectors and they provide an extraordinary image for the money spent !!
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post #643 of 663 Old 08-13-2019, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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This room is actually insane....WOW! - looks really comfortable and I like the color layout aswell!
Thank you. I don't know about the room being insane but the owner most certainly is. It is very comfortable, and a great place to listen to music, and watch movies, golf and college football!!

I appreciate your kind words.
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post #644 of 663 Old 08-17-2019, 12:31 PM
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audioguy,

Great home theater.

I see you are using a MiniDSP to handle multiple subwoofers with the Altitude16 while having a 9.1.6 setup. Looks like that model is not available anymore and wanted to ask you if you have any recommendations for what else could be used? Having a 9.1.6 setup with the Altitude16 only leaves one available channel for the subwoofer so you need something like a MiniDSP to support multiples.
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post #645 of 663 Old 08-18-2019, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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audioguy,

Great home theater.
Thank you!

Quote:
I see you are using a MiniDSP to handle multiple subwoofers with the Altitude16 while having a 9.1.6 setup. Looks like that model is not available anymore and wanted to ask you if you have any recommendations for what else could be used?
Depends on how much you want to spend - or if you are willing to buy used. I have a client who purchased one like I am using (new) and he is not using it nor probably will. THIS ONE will do the same as the one I have but you will need to remove the XLR connectors from one end of the cable to fit these Phoenix connectors.

One of my clients use THIS product. They also use Phoenix connectors.

Others use products from QSC. Much more expensive but for JUST managing subs, seems a bit over-kill to me.

Quote:
Having a 9.1.6 setup with the Altitude16 only leaves one available channel for the subwoofer so you need something like a MiniDSP to support multiples.
Correct.
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post #646 of 663 Old 08-18-2019, 08:14 AM
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Thanks.
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post #647 of 663 Old 08-19-2019, 01:35 PM
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Thank you!



Depends on how much you want to spend - or if you are willing to buy used. I have a client who purchased one like I am using (new) and he is not using it nor probably will. THIS ONE will do the same as the one I have but you will need to remove the XLR connectors from one end of the cable to fit these Phoenix connectors.

One of my clients use THIS product. They also use Phoenix connectors.

Others use products from QSC. Much more expensive but for JUST managing subs, seems a bit over-kill to me.



Correct.
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Thanks.
The dbx driverack pa360 is also an excellent option.

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post #648 of 663 Old 08-20-2019, 06:24 PM
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The NX 7 and 9 are apparently great projectors. I think both Kris Deering and Craig Rounds have RS3000/NX9, and Kris has stated he believes the RS3000 to be superior in many ways to the RS4500. And according to Craig, who left my home to calibrate an RS2000/Lumagen, he thinks the RS2000/NX7 is about as close as you can imagine to the NX9. If it were not for my choosing to make a "life long purchase" and, hence the laser based 4500, the NX7 would have been my choice.

Apparently a really wonderful machine!!
Hi Chuck,


I'm considering updating my projector to the NX7. I currently have an older Panamorph UH480 anamorphic lens. Do you think I'll need to upgrade that also?



Craig

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post #649 of 663 Old 08-20-2019, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Chuck,

I'm considering updating my projector to the NX7. I currently have an older Panamorph UH480 anamorphic lens. Do you think I'll need to upgrade that also?

Craig
Craig: Not sure I'm qualified to answer that. I would call Shawn Kelley, owner of Panamorph and ask him.

You could, at least, give it a try. If it doesn't diminish the image, then it might be, at the very least, a temporary way to increase light output.
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post #650 of 663 Old 08-20-2019, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Craig: Not sure I'm qualified to answer that. I would call Shawn Kelley, owner of Panamorph and ask him.

You could, at least, give it a try. If it doesn't diminish the image, then it might be, at the very least, a temporary way to increase light output.

Thanks! I'll try calling him tomorrow.

Lombardi said it:
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post #651 of 663 Old 08-20-2019, 06:58 PM
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One more question... what screen material are you using with your JVC?

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post #652 of 663 Old 08-20-2019, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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One more question... what screen material are you using with your JVC?
Seymour Center Stage XD™ (acoustically transparent). And FWIW, the guy that did my calibration thought that my SD image was the best he had seen and shared that with Kris Deering (who also does lots of calibrations).

HIGHLY recommended.
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post #653 of 663 Old 08-21-2019, 03:20 AM
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Seymour Center Stage XD™ (acoustically transparent). And FWIW, the guy that did my calibration thought that my SD image was the best he had seen and shared that with Kris Deering (who also does lots of calibrations).

HIGHLY recommended.
My current screen is Seymour XD. However, they make some new materials specifically for 4K projectors. Did you check out any of those when you upgraded your projector?


Do you have a video processor? I've been recommended the Lumagen.

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post #654 of 663 Old 08-21-2019, 04:08 AM - Thread Starter
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My current screen is Seymour XD. However, they make some new materials specifically for 4K projectors. Did you check out any of those when you upgraded your projector?
I did not. The thought never occurred to me - strange as that may seem.

Quote:
Do you have a video processor? I've been recommended the Lumagen.
I do now have a Lumagen - just got it.

I have never been a believer of Video Processors since their (in my mind) primary benefit was up converting the video to higher resolutions and I always thought my projectors did a great job. Maybe 15 years ago I bought one through one of the calibration software companies so I could learn and perform my own video calibration. But for as much as I know and understand about audio, I have never been able to easily grasp all of the concepts of video. With test discs, I could get brightness, contrast and a few other things really close, but not the whole thing. So have not had a VP until that last month or so.

BUT, with the help of another AVSer [@beastaudio], I was able to see the possibilities of HDR on my previous JVC RS500, and that is what prompted my insane upgrade to the RS4500 + Panamorph. And then Lumagen came out with Dynamic Tone Mapping, which had the possibilities of greatly improving HDR video, so I decided to dive in. But prior to purchasing the Lumagen, I talked to Jim Peterson (owns Lumagen) about calibration and he provided some names that he knew could get me the most out of my Lumagen/JVC/Panamorph. I selected Craig Rounds, but there are other guys as well. Craig, and Kris Deering and I'm sure others had a "package" deal of the Lumagen hardware and the calibration service combined, and that is what I chose to have done. Craig spent two days here and the results are simply stunning. The only negative I have about my video chain is the projector noise, even in mid laser, so I will eventually build a "hush box".

The current group of JVC projectors (NX7, NX9 and RS4500/Z1) coupled with a Lumagen and Lens, on our sized screen, have the ability to provide a simply stunning (yet far from inexpensive) result.
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post #655 of 663 Old 08-21-2019, 07:48 AM
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I did not. The thought never occurred to me - strange as that may seem.
Oh my! Please don't spend more money and blame it on me!!!



I called Shawn Kelley and he said my current lens will work fine. Of course, he also said the new lenses will work "better," but I saw him winking at me through the phone.


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I do now have a Lumagen - just got it.

I have never been a believer of Video Processors since their (in my mind) primary benefit was up converting the video to higher resolutions and I always thought my projectors did a great job. Maybe 15 years ago I bought one through one of the calibration software companies so I could learn and perform my own video calibration. But for as much as I know and understand about audio, I have never been able to easily grasp all of the concepts of video. With test discs, I could get brightness, contrast and a few other things really close, but not the whole thing. So have not had a VP until that last month or so.

BUT, with the help of another AVSer [@beastaudio], I was able to see the possibilities of HDR on my previous JVC RS500, and that is what prompted my insane upgrade to the RS4500 + Panamorph. And then Lumagen came out with Dynamic Tone Mapping, which had the possibilities of greatly improving HDR video, so I decided to dive in. But prior to purchasing the Lumagen, I talked to Jim Peterson (owns Lumagen) about calibration and he provided some names that he knew could get me the most out of my Lumagen/JVC/Panamorph. I selected Craig Rounds, but there are other guys as well. Craig, and Kris Deering and I'm sure others had a "package" deal of the Lumagen hardware and the calibration service combined, and that is what I chose to have done. Craig spent two days here and the results are simply stunning. The only negative I have about my video chain is the projector noise, even in mid laser, so I will eventually build a "hush box".

The current group of JVC projectors (NX7, NX9 and RS4500/Z1) coupled with a Lumagen and Lens, on our sized screen, have the ability to provide a simply stunning (yet far from inexpensive) result.
I think my current plan is to just get the projector and see how well I can make it work. Then I'll revisit the screen and Lumagen and lens.

Lombardi said it:
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #656 of 663 Old 08-21-2019, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh my! Please don't spend more money and blame it on me!!!
You would not be blamed. The only way I would potentially get a new screen is if I went to a larger screen - which with all of the necessary construction, would cost on the order of $25,000!!


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I called Shawn Kelley and he said my current lens will work fine. Of course, he also said the new lenses will work "better," but I saw him winking at me through the phone.
I would definitely give that a go.

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I think my current plan is to just get the projector and see how well I can make it work. Then I'll revisit the screen and Lumagen and lens.
Sounds like an excellent plan
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post #657 of 663 Old 08-21-2019, 09:39 AM
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Hi Chuck,


I'm considering updating my projector to the NX7. I currently have an older Panamorph UH480 anamorphic lens. Do you think I'll need to upgrade that also?



Craig
Im running the nx7 with the even older uh380 at the moment and am perfectly happy with what I am seeing on the screen. Will the DCR be better, especially for a flat screen? Probably, and a little more user friendly, but will you be able to tell with normal content? I highly doubt it. For the pricing of everything being discussed I have definitely shifted my interest more towards the lumagen for the dynamic tone mapping among other things. No lens will improve that and it would be awful hard for you to find anyone that (knowing you already have a lens of some sort) would argue more towards the Paladin than the Lumagen processor at this point.

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My current screen is Seymour XD. However, they make some new materials specifically for 4K projectors. Did you check out any of those when you upgraded your projector?


Do you have a video processor? I've been recommended the Lumagen.
This personally would be the last consideration on your list to upgrade. For woven material the XD is the brightest available gain and you'll want every bit of that to take advantage of HDR material. You can close down the iris all you want to dim the image if needed, but you can never gain lumens back from moving to a lower gain screen. Your only other option is to transition to a microperf material for some more added gain...but as Chuck has already mentioned, the XD is a wonderful fabric, and it's 1.0 benchmarked gain is right in the sweet spot for most applications.

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Oh my! Please don't spend more money and blame it on me!!!



I called Shawn Kelley and he said my current lens will work fine. Of course, he also said the new lenses will work "better," but I saw him winking at me through the phone.



I think my current plan is to just get the projector and see how well I can make it work. Then I'll revisit the screen and Lumagen and lens.
Oh he'll blame it on you alright...

I think your plan is sound. The lens should suffice just fine IMO as will your screen. The lumagen will just help take an already breathtaking image and get it to the next level...as would a professional calibration of your nx7 when you could get one of those guys out your way.

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Oh he'll blame it on you alright...
I only "blame" Craig for past audio upgrades - but not really - I LOVE my Triads. And now that I have the video chain that I do, I "blame" no one for that either.
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post #659 of 663 Old 08-21-2019, 10:08 AM
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I only "blame" Craig for past audio upgrades - but not really - I LOVE my Triads. And now that I have the video chain that I do, I "blame" no one for that either.
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post #660 of 663 Old 08-21-2019, 10:21 AM
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Im running the nx7 with the even older uh380 at the moment and am perfectly happy with what I am seeing on the screen. Will the DCR be better, especially for a flat screen? Probably, and a little more user friendly, but will you be able to tell with normal content? I highly doubt it. For the pricing of everything being discussed I have definitely shifted my interest more towards the lumagen for the dynamic tone mapping among other things. No lens will improve that and it would be awful hard for you to find anyone that (knowing you already have a lens of some sort) would argue more towards the Paladin than the Lumagen processor at this point.



This personally would be the last consideration on your list to upgrade. For woven material the XD is the brightest available gain and you'll want every bit of that to take advantage of HDR material. You can close down the iris all you want to dim the image if needed, but you can never gain lumens back from moving to a lower gain screen. Your only other option is to transition to a microperf material for some more added gain...but as Chuck has already mentioned, the XD is a wonderful fabric, and it's 1.0 benchmarked gain is right in the sweet spot for most applications.



Oh he'll blame it on you alright...

I think your plan is sound. The lens should suffice just fine IMO as will your screen. The lumagen will just help take an already breathtaking image and get it to the next level...as would a professional calibration of your nx7 when you could get one of those guys out your way.
Hi Brandon! Thanks for the confirmations. Much appreciated!


One followup question on screens. Seymour ScreenExcellence has a couple of new(ish) 4K screen materials, Enlightor-4K, (0.98 Gain), Enlightor-Bright, (1.1 Gain), and Enlightor-Neo, (No gain specified.) They're finer weaves with less visible porosity. They allow you to sit closer without any visibility of the screen surface. Do you think any of these would be an upgrade from the XD material? I'm particularly thinking of the Enlightor-Bright, but I need to find out more about the Neo also. I have a call in to Chris Seymour, and I'm waiting to hear back.

http://www.seymourscreenexcellence.c....pdf#zoom=100&


Thanks!



Craig

Lombardi said it:
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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