New House - New Theater - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 256Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #211 of 596 Old 01-23-2016, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
My HST18's



welcomed two new (almost identical) twin brothers to join the family yesterday. Almost identical in that this is a Master/Slave combination.



I used the miniDSP to do some adjustments, and did NOT rerun Audyssey (just used the previous filter set) and did some listening. I'm not where I want to be but it was pretty awesome that the older children played so nice with the new additions. I will not rerun Audyssey as I am expecting my new SSP in a few weeks (finally).

I don't know if psychologists have identified primary and secondary addictions, but if they have, audio is my primary addiction with sub woofage running a close second as my secondary addiction. Clean, tight, massive bass just makes watching movies at home so much more enjoyable ---- and sooooooooo much better than 99.9% of any commercial theater I have ever heard.
carp and NextLevel217 like this.
audioguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #212 of 596 Old 01-23-2016, 09:31 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,073
Mentioned: 672 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3513 Post(s)
Liked: 3196
Nice!! Ahh I miss the sight of stacked Submersives!! What a GREAT sub the subm is....


carp is offline  
post #213 of 596 Old 01-23-2016, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Nice!! Ahh I miss the sight of stacked Submersives!! What a GREAT sub the subm is....


I agree.

I have not heard all subs but I have yet to hear any that match the mid bass slam of the SubMersive. My 4 HST18's sure did not even after Mark Seaton shared with me some things to get them closer. I do like them better below 40 to 50HZ than the SubMersives. So while I don't have the two different kinds of subs dialed in properly, it is already clear that the combination of the strength of both should get me where I want to go.
audioguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #214 of 596 Old 02-12-2016, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
New Project

I have been "inspired" by other installs seen on AVS and the work done at the place where I purchase my equipment. I have decided to tackle the job of cleaning up the equipment room [easy job], including the rack of equipment [ not an easy job].

It normally does not look quite this bad as I usually have things a lot more tidy, I have undone all of the zip ties and velcro straps to get ready for the install of a new rack. But it is still a mass of speaker wire, interconnects, power cords, ethernet cables, IR control cables and a few other things.


I have ordered the Middle Atlantic rack, have rack ears for some of my equipment and custom shelves and face plates coming for most everything else [as well as lacing bars to go on the back for making everything a lot more tidy.] Part of the reason I have never tackled this project is that nothing has historically stayed long in the rack. Now, most of the key pieces [SSP, amps, miniDSP, DirecTV, power conditioner, Kaleidescape Alto and Disc Server] are here to stay so that it makes much more sense. I have been told by those who do this for a living [and are as OCD as I am] that it can take upwards of several weeks to get it all cleaned up.

UPDATE: Here is the back of my rack as of today ......... OCD is a good thing. [Three weeks all day everyday!!!]

Mike_WI and bscool like this.

Last edited by audioguy; 06-03-2016 at 09:06 PM.
audioguy is offline  
post #215 of 596 Old 02-26-2016, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
Datasat RS20i SSP Install

I was either fortunate or cursed to have a dealer-borrowed RS20i in my room about 18 months ago - and was never able to get the sound out of my head. We had done a blind comparison of it to my then SSP and the differences were anything but subtle - and that was before I had all of the knowledge on the RS20i that I do now.

I have purchased one and now have it up and running --- and while it can be classified as an obscene amount of money to spend on just one box, it is truly an exceptional audio component. Sounds that were previously obscured are much more audible; all of my speakers have totally disappeared; the sense of envelopment is nothing but incredible; imaging is far more precise; and sounds emminate from a true three dimensional space. Glad I made the purchase. One of this things I have discovered is the amount of audio that goes into the ceiling speakers. The Home screen on the RS20i has an active bar graph that shows this for every speaker. Anyone thinking they can put much lower quality speakers in the ceiling would be making a mistake.

As I do with all of my audio/video changes, I never tell my bride what or when I do anything. It is not about hiding the expense, but rather to see if she ever notices any change. I usually give her 6 moths to a year and then tell her what I changed.

In the last 8 years, of all of the changes I have made, she has noticed two: what she did not notice was a change from a JVC RS2 to a JVC RS55. She did notice the change from the RS55 to the Sony 600ES. She also noticed the change to Atmos. In addition to the change to the RS20i, I have also modified the sub configuration. It will be interesting to find out if she notices any of this. Hoping so - but doubting so !!!

EDIT as of 08-12-16: Not a complete surprise but as of today my wife did not notice any of the sonic improvements as a result of the changes though she does know about most of the physical changes that I did (since I told her). What a strange hobby this is. Cosmetic changes not withstanding, it appears that most of our upgrades are for US!!!!!
Frohlich likes this.

Last edited by audioguy; 08-12-2016 at 01:28 PM.
audioguy is offline  
post #216 of 596 Old 02-26-2016, 07:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Frohlich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 4,355
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1972 Post(s)
Liked: 2151
Sounds like an awesome upgrade to an already stellar room. Glad you love it!!!

On a side note, I also don't always share all my purchases with my wife. I don't want to burden her with all the details of my obsession and have to keep track of all the changes.....it's for her own good. Not to mention there are plenty of times I see an 87th..88th..etc. pair of shoes show up in our closet unannounced. I am sure she is trying to equally lift the burden of me having to keep track of all her changes.
Frohlich is online now  
post #217 of 596 Old 02-26-2016, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
Sounds like an awesome upgrade to an already stellar room. Glad you love it!!!
Thanks. I do enjoy movies in our home. We now have a new strategy for watching action/adventure movies. I like them louder than her (or most all of our friends we invite), I watch them first, alone, as loud as I like sitting in the sweet spot.

Quote:
On a side note, I also don't always share all my purchases with my wife. I don't want to burden her with all the details of my obsession and have to keep track of all the changes.....it's for her own good. Not to mention there are plenty of times I see an 87th..88th..etc. pair of shoes show up in our closet unannounced. I am sure she is trying to equally lift the burden of me having to keep track of all her changes.
Since I am now retired, I must live within a budget. When I sold my small company, I set aside a tiny amount for future audio/video purchases and I do have an annual (very small) budget for audio/video expenses as well. After the RS20i acquisition, the sub changes, and the up and coming clean up of my equipment room, the funds available for anything large are now totally depleted. But .... I can only see a few changes in my future: a UHD Blu Ray player a year or so from now; a streaming media server of some kind when 4K streaming become more widespread; and potentially a swap out of my Sony 600ES since it is not UHD compatible. Apparently, 4K without UHD is not quite as amazing as 4K WITH UHD. The latter will be a lot more difficult to pull off. My best opportunity to bypass that change will be to NEVER see a 4K UHD image live in a dealer, someone's home or an audio/video show - and quit reading AVS Forum

Last edited by audioguy; 02-27-2016 at 07:55 AM.
audioguy is offline  
post #218 of 596 Old 03-02-2016, 05:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
madhuski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,612
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1289 Post(s)
Liked: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I was either fortunate or cursed to have a dealer-borrowed RS20i in my room about 18 months ago - and was never able to get the sound out of my head. We had done a blind comparison of it to my then SSP and the differences were anything but subtle - and that was before I had all of the knowledge on the RS20i that I do now.

I have purchased one and now have it up and running --- and while it can be classified as an obscene amount of money to spend on just one box, it is truly an exceptional audio component. Sounds that were previously obscured are much more audible; all of my speakers have totally disappeared; the sense of envelopment is nothing but incredible; imaging is far more precise; and sounds emminate from a true three dimensional space. Glad I made the purchase. One of this things I have discovered is the amount of audio that goes into the ceiling speakers. The Home screen on the RS20i has an active bar graph that shows this for every speaker. Anyone thinking they can put much lower quality speakers in the ceiling would be making a mistake.

As I do with all of my audio/video changes, I never tell my bride what or when I do anything. It is not about hiding the expense, but rather to see if she ever notices any change. I usually give her 6 moths to a year and then tell her what I changed.

In the last 8 years, of all of the changes I have made, she has noticed two: what she did not notice was a change from a JVC RS2 to a JVC RS55. She did notice the change from the RS55 to the Sony 600ES. She also noticed the change to Atmos. In addition to the change to the RS20i, I have also modified the sub configuration. It will be interesting to find out if she notices any of this. Hoping so - but doubting so !!!

Ha - yeah: I do the same thing. Don't tell the squaw when I make a change. It serves as a litmus test for me to see wether what I *think* I hear is really going on or not.....

Selling in AVS Classifieds
Revel Studio2 Pair - gloss black
madhuski is offline  
post #219 of 596 Old 03-03-2016, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
Ha - yeah: I do the same thing. Don't tell the squaw when I make a change. It serves as a litmus test for me to see wether what I *think* I hear is really going on or not.....
Very nice room, by the way. LOVE the dog!! So how often does your "squaw" hear the differences?
audioguy is offline  
post #220 of 596 Old 03-03-2016, 07:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
madhuski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,612
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1289 Post(s)
Liked: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Very nice room, by the way. LOVE the dog!! So how often does your "squaw" hear the differences?
Off the top of my head, three times:

- when I wanted to give xt32 a try, I bought a Onkyo 818. Previously had the Pioneer sc-35 at the time. She did not like the 818 at all.
- when Selah Audio made me a 3-way center to match my songtowers. She noted that things were much better
- The last few months when I've been on a processor bender (denon 4520, Anthem 710, Anthem d2v3d, krell foundation, emotiva xmc-1, yamaha cx-a5000) she generally didn't say much, except when the Yamaha was in chain she felt compelled to say that things sounded worse

Selling in AVS Classifieds
Revel Studio2 Pair - gloss black

Last edited by madhuski; 08-16-2016 at 05:07 AM.
madhuski is offline  
post #221 of 596 Old 03-09-2016, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
Here are some interesting (to me, at least) charts on the frequency response of the RS20i vs the Marantz 7702.

The corrected frequency response of all of the speakers is much better than expected --- and significantly better than what I was able to previously obtain. I have attached some plots of the left front speaker. The red is with no correction. The blue is what Audyssey Pro did on the Marantz and the black is what the RS20i did (using both Output Preset PEQ’s and Dirac). It is not an exact apples to apples comparison as I measured with Dirac about 3 to 5 inches closer toward the MLP when I did the outside measurements. The black is about as close to a straight line as you might imagine. Also, the roll off of the curve from 10K up is a bit steeper with Audyssey as that was the target curve I used in Audyssey Pro. I will be adding a bit more slope to all non-LFE channel targets.

Also, the Audyssey curve has the dip between 1K and 2K and the Dirac plot does not - but I am going to use that dip for movies but not music.


Last edited by audioguy; 03-09-2016 at 04:46 AM.
audioguy is offline  
post #222 of 596 Old 03-09-2016, 07:44 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 11,607
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1172 Post(s)
Liked: 1439
That's pretty impressive Chuck. What does this mean: "It is not an exact apples to apples comparison as I measured with Dirac about 3 to 5 inches closer toward the MLP when I did the outside measurements."?
Where your mic placements similar for Audyssey and Dirac, except of the "outside" measurements?

The Dirac curve doesn't look like the preset curves I had for Dirac in the 88A that I had. The 88A presets had about a 6 dB downward slope from low to high frequencies. Yours looks pretty flat with just a couple dB of slope. Did you set it that way, or does the RS20I have different presets that the 88A?

Can the Pro Kit be used to set a target curve that doesn't have the steep roll off of the higher frequencies? It looks like Audyssey is starting to roll off at about 5kHz and is down well over 10 dB at 20 kHz. My understanding is that it's not supposed to start the roll off until 10 kHz, and then it's only supposed to be 3 dB at 20 kHz.

Also, can the Pro Kit be used to eliminate the 2kHz dip? IIRC, my friend Jeff did that... and then immediately put it back in because he didn't like the result with the 2k dip removed.

Finally, how much different does Dirac SOUND than Audyssey?

Craig

Lombardi said it:
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System
craig john is offline  
post #223 of 596 Old 03-09-2016, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post
That's pretty impressive Chuck. What does this mean: "It is not an exact apples to apples comparison as I measured with Dirac about 3 to 5 inches closer toward the MLP when I did the outside measurements."?
Where your mic placements similar for Audyssey and Dirac, except of the "outside" measurements?
I used 8 measurements with Audyssey and 9 for Dirac. For Audyssey, I measured at the MLP, approximately 24 inches on either side of the MLP, behind the MLP about 24 inches at two points (behind the two outside positions on either side of the MLP), and 3 in front of the MLP about 24 inches. With Dirac, I measure at the MLP, about 18 inches on either side of the MLP, about 18 inches in front of the MLP (two measurements and then do the same positions but about 6 inches higher. This is the recommended positions for measuring a single seat with Dirac.

Quote:
The Dirac curve doesn't look like the preset curves I had for Dirac in the 88A that I had.
Wisdom Audio had Datasat add output channel presets which Dirac does look at. Dirac ignores input channel presets.

Quote:
The 88A presets had about a 6 dB downward slope from low to high frequencies. Yours looks pretty flat with just a couple dB of slope. Did you set it that way, or does the RS20I have different presets that the 88A?
Dirac provides an initial target curve which does have a very slight downward slope, but that can be modified as desired. While I modified the upper and lower end of their suggested targets (to eliminate any possibility of over correcting) I did not change the overall slope.

Quote:
Can the Pro Kit be used to set a target curve that doesn't have the steep roll off of the higher frequencies? It looks like Audyssey is starting to roll off at about 5kHz and is down well over 10 dB at 20 kHz. My understanding is that it's not supposed to start the roll off until 10 kHz, and then it's only supposed to be 3 dB at 20 kHz.
I assume you mean the Audyssey Pro kit? You can change the slope of the upper portion of the target curve. I don't recall making any changes to the recommended Audyssey target curve, but I may have.

Quote:
Also, can the Pro Kit be used to eliminate the 2kHz dip? IIRC, my friend Jeff did that... and then immediately put it back in because he didn't like the result with the 2k dip removed.
In Audyssey Pro, you select a button to enable the 2K dip. I ALWAYS enabled it. Without the dip there was a definite harshness that would show it's ugly head on occasion particularly at high SPL's. I don't have that dip defined in my Dirac target curve and I have yet to hear the same issue. I have listened to close to ZERO music since I got the RS20i installed. Once I got it up and running, I started a NEW project to clean up my equipment rack (new rack from Middle Atlantic) AND do some serious cable management. That turned out to be a much larger task than I could have possibly imagined. I got the equipment out of the old rack and into the new one (after assembling the new one) in 1 day. I have been working on cable management coming up on two weeks, all day most every day.

Quote:
Finally, how much different does Dirac SOUND than Audyssey?
Totally different. Envelopment is far, far superior. That was not a complete surprise since when I ran Dirac for two channel (from my server), it did a much better job of imaging than did Audyssey. So if you think about imaging between 11 speakers instead of two, what you end up with the better imaging in a 3 dimensional space, aka improved envelopment.

Individual sounds that were previously buried in the mix have become more distinct. There is less sibilance in voices. The blend between the subs and all other speakers is greatly improved. The bass is also cleaner.

Stupid amount of money to spend but certainly better improvement than going from a $1000 amp to a $20,000 amp, changing all of your cables, etc. Next time you come south, come see my and we'll see if we can't get you to spend some more money !!!!!!
audioguy is offline  
post #224 of 596 Old 03-09-2016, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
I am experimenting with a version of this target (Harmon) curve: ---- and no, I don't know what the red line represents:



When I had my Marantz 7702, I would increase the LFE channel about ~5+ db over all of the other channels when watching action movies. The problem with doing so is that it would sometimes give chesty vocals that were clearly wrong. Since the LFE channel extends into the lower end of voices, this was not a surprise but I was OK with messing up the vocals to have "better" bass.

The Harmon curve gives results (for action movies) better (more fun) than just raising the bass and does not mess up the vocals. It is easy and quick to do so in Dirac on the RS20i (takes about 3 minutes to re optimize after defining a new target and uploading to the RS20i. Not quite so quick in Audyssey Pro). That said, I have a friend who is using Audyssey Pro on a Denon 5200 and he has created (in Audyssey Pro) a curve as similar as possible given Pro limitations. Neither he nor I have quite the bass increase as is depicted in this curve. We are up about 5 db or so. He likes that approach over just raising the LFE channel as do I.
biga6761 likes this.
audioguy is offline  
post #225 of 596 Old 04-18-2016, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
The addiction upgrade bug has struck yet again. A Kaleidescape Alto has been ordered with 6TB of storage. ( I sold an expensive watch I haven't worn in years to pay for it). I have chosen to wait until all of the 4K UHD issues have been standardized before I move forward with 4K and hence put off purchasing the Strato. I figure 18 months or so and the 4K dust should settle. In the meantime, I can get all of my movies cataloged at the least.

As with many other things I have said I would or would not do, getting a movie server made absolutely no sense to me. You put in a movie, watch it and 2 hours later, take it out. Why would I need a system to do that? Certainly the primary motivation is the "cool factor". But I have recently been exposed to multiple users with various K-Scape products and realize there are some other "real" benefits to one of these systems.

I have been using some 3rd Party software to keep all of my movies organized and the Alto will replace that. And trying to decide what movie to watch should also be simplified as well and a few other goodies. Maybe after I have played with it for a few months I can further justify why I purchased it . But the "cool factor" is, at the moment, the only reason I need.
Mike_WI likes this.

Last edited by audioguy; 08-12-2016 at 01:29 PM.
audioguy is offline  
post #226 of 596 Old 06-03-2016, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
Does it ever end? [Please know that was a rhetorical question. Of course it never ends]

I have now decided to sell the 2 DIY Stereo Integrity HST 18 subs and Peavey IPR 7500 amp and get 4 Seaton F18's to replace them [Master/3 Slaves]. I have simply been unable to get the bass I want trying to integrate the DIY subs and the SubMersive subs. The DIY subs really crush the Seaton SubMersives below 50HZ But above that point, they simply do not have the mid bass slam that I can get from the SubMersives --- and trying to integrate them has not worked. I had hoped to have the low end of the HST's and the mid bass slam of the Seatons. Can not get it to work. Had I never owned the SubMersives, I would be completely happy with my DIY subs. Simply incredible. Room shaking bass.

I have now heard 4 F18's (all be it in a much smaller room), and they seem to provide what I am looking for so the 4 F18's coupled with my existing two SubMersives will be the new bass package.
Mark Seaton and NextLevel217 like this.
audioguy is offline  
post #227 of 596 Old 07-18-2016, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
Every since I first saw the theater done by Peter M (and others), I was really drawn to the look and feel. A friend just built a new theater and we copied (to the extent possible) that look, and it looks [and sounds] marvelous. I don't know if I can pull it off (or if I will even try), but that will be one of my next possible projects. And while it would bet cost prohibitive to move my L + R speakers behind the screen, I am going to evsaluate moving them closer to the screen. As it is now, the folks sitting anywhere but the MLP, are too close to the speakers. This will only occur if I can get reasonable frequency response in their new position. [Note: I have tried this multiple times with no success - but I will try again]

UPDATE AS OF 08-02-16

First of all, I decided to keep the Kaleidescape Alto {don't ask].

On a more important note, I was able to move the L+R speakers back about 18 inches, the FR prior to Dirac was different but no worse and the after-Dirac sound is awesome. On a separate note, one of the advantages of moving to the SubMersive F18 from my DIY subs is the form factor. I will be able to place them in the two front corners, turn them so the driver is facing along the front wall (vs facing into the room) and then hide them behind acoustically transparent acoustic fabric. Thus moving one step closer to making the room look less like the science project/recording studio it is currently and more like the room I would like to have [see photo below].

Here is a photo from Peter M's room.



Here is another version of that room (much smaller)

BrolicBeast and NextLevel217 like this.

Last edited by audioguy; 08-02-2016 at 05:58 AM.
audioguy is offline  
post #228 of 596 Old 08-18-2016, 03:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
brian6751's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 6,979
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1687 Post(s)
Liked: 1678
do you have any more info on that second room?

--------------------------------------------------
FOR SALE:
Lots of stuff. Check the Audio Gear Classifieds
brian6751 is offline  
post #229 of 596 Old 08-18-2016, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
do you have any more info on that second room?
What specifically would you like to know? It has B&W speakers all around; until the owner movies in (it is a show home for the next 10 months) it has 4 Sunfire subs (one in each corner) but those will be replaced by 4 Seaton F18's; JVC RS500 projector, Marantz 7702 SSP.
audioguy is offline  
post #230 of 596 Old 08-18-2016, 05:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
brian6751's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 6,979
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1687 Post(s)
Liked: 1678
The space size is very similar to mine. Is there any build pics or a thread?

--------------------------------------------------
FOR SALE:
Lots of stuff. Check the Audio Gear Classifieds
brian6751 is offline  
post #231 of 596 Old 08-18-2016, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
The space size is very similar to mine. Is there any build pics or a thread?
I designed the acoustics for the room and the visual aspects of the room. It is not very large but does have 11 foot ceilings if I recall. There is no build thread since it is not my room and the guy whose room it is doesn't do that kind of stuff and almost never posts here.
audioguy is offline  
post #232 of 596 Old 08-26-2016, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
audioguy is offline  
post #233 of 596 Old 08-26-2016, 07:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
TMcG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,659
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1615 Post(s)
Liked: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Furniture sliders for the win!!

Looks like somebody is going to have a GREAT weekend playing with his new toys! The thought of your system having even greater low end grunt with this new Seaton kit has me giddy...or scared....but mostly giddy....
TMcG is offline  
post #234 of 596 Old 08-27-2016, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Furniture sliders for the win!!

Looks like somebody is going to have a GREAT weekend playing with his new toys! The thought of your system having even greater low end grunt with this new Seaton kit has me giddy...or scared....but mostly giddy....
I was not home when they were delivered but my wife said the two FedEx guys about died moving close to 500 pounds of boxes into the garage. One of them said they had to be speakers because nothing else in that size box weighs that much. A friend and a friend of his carried them upstairs for me and then helped me stack them [with the sliders ] so it would be easy(er) for me to get them into the corners. Unfortunately, they put the powered unit on the bottom of one off the stacks so I will need some help re-doing it to the top.

As you may remember, I had my 2 SubMersives stacked in the left rear corner and that asymmetry has always bugged me so I un-stacked them. I am going to try to place them along the rear wall [not stacked] and move them around to see if I can get reasonable non-EQ'd response coupled with the front subs that will now be in the corners.

I'm not sure I will have more low end grunt but I am sure what ever grunt I do have, it will be cleaner than what I did have. The bigger [potential] gain for me is the bass north of about 50HZ vs the DIY subs --- and the slimmer profile which will allow me to hide them in the corners. The front of the room already looks so much better after having moved the two DIY subs out of the way. I can't even begin to count how much money I have spent on this addiction hobby as a result of trying to keep my OCDness and "neatnick" disorders in check.
Mark Seaton likes this.
audioguy is offline  
post #235 of 596 Old 08-29-2016, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
I have put theF18's close to where they will be and moved the rear SubMersives to their new spot on the rear wall. Set levels and looked at the FR. The blue curve is just the raw plots while the other included a couple of PEQ's to flatten things out a bit prior to room correction. Looks like a great start. Since Dirac does such a great job on the bass, it won't be necessary to use the PGM2 button on the SubMersive or the equivalent dial on the F18's. Once everything is in the exact spot, I will re-run Dirac on the subs and see where we are.


Last edited by audioguy; 08-29-2016 at 02:53 PM.
audioguy is offline  
post #236 of 596 Old 08-29-2016, 06:23 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,457
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2929 Post(s)
Liked: 1684
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
The blue curve is just the raw plots while the other included a couple of PEQ's to flatten things out a bit prior to room correction.

Looks really good. Quite free of room modes. Does this represent the response across the various seats?

I have a feeling that the PEQ at ~76 Hz ought to have a higher Q, then the dips at 72 and 82 Hz could be reduced. Just a guess.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win7 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #237 of 596 Old 08-29-2016, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Looks really good. Quite free of room modes. Does this represent the response across the various seats?

I have a feeling that the PEQ at ~76 Hz ought to have a higher Q, then the dips at 72 and 82 Hz could be reduced. Just a guess.
Roger, thanks. You may be right. But since the subs are not exactly where they will end up (building columns to hide them in the corners) and one of them is rotated 90 degrees from where it will end up, I didn't want to spend too much time diddling. But I will keep that in mind when I get them placed exactly where I want them. And no, this is not an average across the seats. I was just getting a base line to compare to my other sub setup.

I am in the middle of listening to my system with no Dirac as the room is filled with "stuff" and won't do the final measurement until everything is in place - hopefully later this week. I was running OmniMic SPL while some of these actions scenes were playing and realized that at the levels I sometimes listen, bass peaks in excess of 120db are not exactly uncommon. I was very surprised. I was testing earlier today how loud the 4 F18's will play before they come unglued (compression/distortion) running signal sweeps through them. They can exceed 120 db with very little compression. Unfortunately, but not surpassingly (given I have 4 boxes of F18's and 2 of SubMersives), the dual SubMersives come apart much, much sooner and since all of the subs play at the same time, the sub "package" comes apart when the SubMersives do. I'm now trying to figure out a way to "justify" swapping my SubMersives for 4 more F18's OR buying two more SubMersives (Master/Slave). What an amazing and expensive addiction hobby I have chosen!!!

Roger: I thought I remembered that you were building a new home and/or new theater. Is that correct and if so, what is the status?

Last edited by audioguy; 08-29-2016 at 07:52 PM.
audioguy is offline  
post #238 of 596 Old 08-29-2016, 09:40 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,457
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2929 Post(s)
Liked: 1684
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I'm now trying to figure out a way to "justify" swapping my SubMersives for 4 more F18's OR buying two more SubMersives (Master/Slave).
I don't want to get in the way of more F18's. But I was thinking that an asymmetrical arrangement could work well, with bigger subs up front than rear -- the rears being closer to the fronts, it should take less power to either cancel the back wave (dual bass array) or to cancel modes. But all that will have to await getting the new room built to verify.

Quote:
Roger: I thought I remembered that you were building a new home and/or new theater. Is that correct and if so, what is the status?
The home is recently finished, and am just starting the theater build. This week will order 75 sheets of 4x8' materials (drywall, OSB, plywood) and 6 buckets of green glue to get the envelope enclosed. For now I live vicariously through the great builds at AVS Forum.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win7 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #239 of 596 Old 08-29-2016, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not far from Atlanta - but far enough!
Posts: 9,080
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4580 Post(s)
Liked: 3348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I don't want to get in the way of more F18's. But I was thinking that an asymmetrical arrangement could work well, with bigger subs up front than rear -- the rears being closer to the fronts, it should take less power to either cancel the back wave (dual bass array) or to cancel modes. But all that will have to await getting the new room built to verify.
Did you mean rears being closer to the MLP or fronts? I am going to get some feedback from Mark on this. I really don't want to spend any more $ on subs if I don't absolutely have to so I can spend it on other stuff!
audioguy is offline  
post #240 of 596 Old 08-29-2016, 10:16 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,457
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2929 Post(s)
Liked: 1684
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Did you mean rears being closer to the MLP or fronts? I am going to get some feedback from Mark on this. I really don't want to spend any more $ on subs if I don't absolutely have to so I can spend it on other stuff!
Sorry, rears being closer than the fronts. Would start with equal SPL at the MLP to see how many dB less is needed from the rears. That will add to the system headroom. Might also find out that the rears can be high-passed (or otherwise EQ'd down) somewhere below the longest axial mode (ballpark 35 Hz) and that means less subterranean excursion stress, again yielding more headroom.

In other words, I'd try various subwoofer tuning strategies to get the most out of the current subs before throwing in the towel, err, wallet.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win7 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply What's Your System Configuration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off