My 11.4.12 "Franken-Atmos" living room. - Page 23 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #661 of 837 Old 05-02-2019, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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And then there is this :

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post #662 of 837 Old 05-02-2019, 04:25 PM
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Just sent you about it and the other convo we had going. So sorry to hear that man!!! Back to what worked so well for you then!!

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1400cuft sealed room, suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo 203 | Epson 5040 4K | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Screen | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | 4x BK LFEs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD
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post #663 of 837 Old 05-02-2019, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
And then there is this :




Nice, is that a super PR seat build?

That’s too bad about your BOSS experience.
I think your TR might have already been so high the way you were setup, modifying it for the BOSS was only detrimental.

The MA’s are definitely a lot stronger below ~15Hz, and you have a ton of them, but my BOSS carries very high energy over my previous setup, especially across 20-35Hz with only 2 MA’s to carry the bottom end. I’m still hitting a PSD around and over 1e-01 at 10Hz during scenes that call for it, but my 15-20Hz seems to drop off a bit in most the VS scenes I measured, might just be the content though as I haven’t ran any WN 0-50 or sweeps to verify my overall TR response. The soft isos alone seem to really boost the 10Hz TR on their own.

It’s definitely a lot more complex mixing this many transducers to achieve a similar and well blended effect, but you’re a lot better at calibrating these things. I hope the current project you’re working on adds more of what you’re looking for.

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Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
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post #664 of 837 Old 05-02-2019, 10:44 PM
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Loving the experiments!

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post #665 of 837 Old 05-03-2019, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Got some work/tests done today.

Made some progress with the BOSS setup today. Weird how everybody finds different ways of configuring their setup, but putting the MA’s BELOW the iso’s gave better results over here, both on VS and the ol’ butt meter

So here are some VS comparisons, all with the same clip: The Meg at 02:20. Same settings as before.
Top left are old setup with stack MA, 4xBK and 8 HU iso’s front iso only, and right top is full iso.
Left bottom is full iso BOSS+ 4x MA with MA’s above the rear iso’s.
Right bottom is same only MA’s below the rear iso’s.



Not to bad, and now it’s starting to get fun again
And here is a sweep, only difference is MA above and below iso’s.



Below iso’s has bigger numbers overall.


And i got one of the SLAPS boxes done. So i removed 2 of the JBL’s, replaced one with a SLAPS M12 and sealed the last hole. So, 4cf, 2 active drivers(JBL) and 1 PR.
Connected in series to a NU6K channel, so 8ohms.
Her is a close mic of the 4xJBL 4cf sealed vs 2xJBL 4cf PR. No EQ and all levels were the same. But that may be wrong since it it 8ohm vs 4ohm?
(Also a close mic of the PR)



Running out of time, so just threw on the same EQ as the 4xJBL box,, and here is the FR of them seperate and together.



The FR follows all the way down !! It has a small dip ~16hz, but still contributes to the ULF all the way down, LOL. This is with NO EXTRA MASS ADDED!! So only the mass as included, like 255grams.

And the TR!! Holy moly it has tons more TR than the other 4xJBL box! And it is felt pretty much down past 10hz, same as the 4xJBL box.
Initial impression is actually WOW! Considering it only has 2 JBL’s, no mass added, and still hangs with it’s 4xJBL cousin, is mighty impressive

But it moves a bit more than it’s cousin too, LOL. I need to fix a way to keep it from walking over the floor, but other than that i am optimistic

Looks a bit funny though

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post #666 of 837 Old 05-03-2019, 08:31 AM
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^^^ Nice!! So liking the BOSS a little better then with the isos above MAs? Or do you still prefer the feel of the BKs + MA stack vs single layer of MAs with isos on top of the MAs + BOSS?

Either way, sounds like the SLAPS are gonna help from the VNFs no matter which direction you go ...BOSS + MAs with Iso on top of MAs or back to the previous way with stacked MAs + BKs.

OR, put your SLAPS in place of the JBLs in the BOSS under your seat, especially if they are making that much of a TR difference in the VNFs. Man, them things looks so beefy compared to the JBLs LOL

Awesome man, glad to hear your making progress!!
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post #667 of 837 Old 05-03-2019, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, as opposed to you where MA under the plattform didn’t work at all, it actually improved the TR in my setup. So strange, but it seems in my setup it is the best compromise.

I am not at the same level as the old setup, but it is much better now, although i barely had time to test, however the remotes were shaking of the couch again during The Meg, so that is a good sign (Probably sounds crazy for normal people, LOL)

I was actually most impressed with the difference the SLAPS made, i could actually feel the improved TR from the RIGHT NF box while sitting in the LEFT seat !!

So yeah, now i am thinking what if i mounted the SLAPS downfiring in the NF boxes, and then put them and the couch on a new plywood plattform with Hudson’s underneath. I actually think just 2 of the SLAPS would be insane!

During the demo clip i did earlier, the PR box vibrated over the floor and pushed it self into the couch(that’s good 4 inches), and almost ruined the surround on one if the JBL’s, LOL. So it has potensial for sure
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post #668 of 837 Old 05-04-2019, 07:43 AM
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Since I seem to really like the JBLs in my full riser version boss, I just may have to try dropping a SLAT in place of the JBLs. Could even do two per seat. I've got about 2" clearance between the top of riser and reclining bar underneath the seats since I've also got the height of the MAs and isos in there, plus about 6" of clearance space underneath from plywood to carpet on floor. Could probably fit them pretty easy and could be pure TR insanity!!!!

Here we go again, just about when I thought I was done ...you gotta do this with the SLATS!!!

I'm gonna at least TRY to a least enjoy what I've got for a while though. But you know how that goes once you get something in your head that you wanna try LOL

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post #669 of 837 Old 05-04-2019, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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LOL, you realize a SLAPS is a passive radiator? As in a alternative to a port, and as such need a otherwise sealed box and active driver to work
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post #670 of 837 Old 05-04-2019, 10:54 AM
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^^^ LOL yeah I was just thinking about that. I guess if I wanted to use it in the Boss, I'd need to leave one JBL in under the seat and its platform, then seal the box with the SLAP in it as well, which is doable since I've been getting great results with it setting on the ground anyway, making it a 'leaky sealed box' but still. IDK, may work, may not, but got me kind of excited thinking about it hahaha. What I experienced with the new setup last night though with tons of isos I honestly don't know that I need it. But I guess one could always use more under 10hz, if you could get more under 10hz out of it.
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post #671 of 837 Old 05-06-2019, 09:24 AM
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Hi Nalleh
Did you do anything the prevent the stuffing pillows from blocking the speaker pole vents or getting stuck between the cage and cone?
I was thinking about using 4 of these in each cabinet. The cabinet volume is 4 cubic feet, so the ratio would be 0,9 pound per cubic foot. A little less than the recommended 1 pound per cubic foot.

https://jysk.dk/sovevaerelse/puder/f...fiber-60x63-70
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post #672 of 837 Old 05-06-2019, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyoreDK View Post
Hi Nalleh
Did you do anything the prevent the stuffing pillows from blocking the speaker pole vents or getting stuck between the cage and cone?
I was thinking about using 4 of these in each cabinet. The cabinet volume is 4 cubic feet, so the ratio would be 0,9 pound per cubic foot. A little less than the recommended 1 pound per cubic foot.

https://jysk.dk/sovevaerelse/puder/f...fiber-60x63-70
Those should work fine. I used 4 of the 700gram ones, and it was no problem with the vent or cone. Just make sure you tuck them well arround the sides and not right behind the vent. I have opened mine since i first assembled them, and the pillows hasn’t moved, so the way you leave them when assembling should not change.

I have 4cf boxes too, and like i said no problem fitting the almost double your size pillows in there

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post #673 of 837 Old 05-07-2019, 09:12 AM
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I got 16 pillows and replaced the fiberglass insulation. I had to staple them to the sides and backside of the front baffle, otherwise they would completely fill the cabinet and block the pole vent.
The cabinets does not sound quite as dead, when knocking on them, as they did with the fiberglass, but it is close.

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post #674 of 837 Old 05-07-2019, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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That looks much better

But are those boxes 4cf each? And you use 4x 400grams pillows in each box?

Strange... as i said my boxes are also 4cf and i use 4 of the (edit)750gram pillows, and i got plenty of space left:


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post #675 of 837 Old 05-07-2019, 09:37 AM
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Yes, the internal volumen is 111,6 liters (3,94 cubic feet). The pillows are quite thick and fully stuffed despite being only 400 grams each. Yours looks a lot less stuffed, perhaps the fibers in yours have a higher density?
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post #676 of 837 Old 05-07-2019, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyoreDK View Post
Yes, the internal volumen is 111,6 liters (3,94 cubic feet). The pillows are quite thick and fully stuffed despite being only 400 grams each. Yours looks a lot less stuffed, perhaps the fibers in yours have a higher density?
Ok.
Yes, your look a lot more fluffy than mine. Should be good either way

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post #677 of 837 Old 05-07-2019, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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This could also be a way to use the SLAPS for a BOSS function(sorry again for the crude Autocad drawing )

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post #678 of 837 Old 05-12-2019, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm.... 2x used SI18HT popped up for sale nearby.....


Boss?...... NF?.......

Hmmm ......




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post #679 of 837 Old 05-12-2019, 03:54 PM
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^^^ Yeah go for it Nalleh!! you be the guinea pig this time and try out the 18's in the BOSS hahahaha. If you say its good, then I'll put mine in, instead of in the VNF cabs behind my seats. Sounds like GK sure likes them and makes sense they would be way better than the 12's. Those IB drivers of his are probably pretty insane though with those specs!! Our normal 18's may make a huge diff too though. I'd be real supersized if they didn't. There is just not quite enough meat and excursion on these 12's by themselves in the BOSS to be super potent down low. Well at least not when fully isolated likes its supposed to be. Its another story when on the ground with no isos on my suspended floor, the ULF TR is pretty insane surprisingly and is what I posted the VS's on the other day in the VS thread. BUT, it densest feel as good as being fully isolated. Always pros and cons to everything it seems. Maybe, just maybe the 18's got give all one would need down low, but a con would be the height for sure.

Sounds like your SLAPS in your cabs behind your seats are killer already so ..... (not sure if the 18's would have anything on them at all ..probably not).

If only the riser didn't have to be so damn high with the 18's I think I'd have already done it. May be worth it though since I seem to be struggling getting my BKs to feel right below about 18hz these days in my seats (at least with BEQ anyway). Kind of bums me out, because we both know those things are BRUTE!! I do seem to love the BOSS with the 12's for the most part, BUT I know the 18's would smash the hell out of them down low!!
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post #680 of 837 Old 05-12-2019, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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^ Haha, yeah i knew you were going to say that, LOL. I will know more tomorrow

It would be awsome to test with some 18"s NF because of what you say about yours. I know my JBL NF’s are similar on paper, but i am not sure i get the wobble from mine, that you say you get from yours. So getting a 18" NF would answere that question.

If i get them, man do i have some testing ahead: NF vs BOSS vs MA vs BK’s vs PR NF vs PR BOSS 12" vs 18" vs downfiring vs upfiring, under seat BOSS(high plattform) vs cantilever low riser(driver behind seat). My head is spinning just from all the ideas, lol.

The 18"s was included DIYSG 4cf boxes too, so plug and play
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post #681 of 837 Old 05-12-2019, 06:11 PM
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LOL yeah that is a LOT of stuff to try out!!!!! And I cant think of a better person for the job, seriously!! You've got a ton of experience with TR, and not just any TR, the best of the best TR already with your previous setup, + your just great at testing it all objectively (as well as subjective) and then documenting it. I'm grateful for all your testing and will really look forward to all your upcoming tests of it all!! It will be a lot of testing, but super cool to have all these options for TR.

Yeah my 18" VNFs can really bring the ULF TR. Well they used too anyway, when my seats were lower. They used to bring it so much that I was shocked to find out that my BKs and MAs were turned down way too low to even be contributing ULF there for a while (about the time I first started reviewing some of those BEQ'd movies in the BEQ thread). I mean, my floor resonance around 12hz helps a ton for sure for wobble power, but it worked with the VNFs great and would just wobble the heck out of me down that low.
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post #682 of 837 Old 05-12-2019, 06:51 PM
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My 11.4.12 "Franken-Atmos" living room.

Aaaaw come on man, y’all are a terrible influence!

You’ve got me looking at my 18” Dayton driver I’m not using and thinking of its BOSS potential. The only problem is the surround alone sticks up a full inch over the mounting frame, so I’d have to add at least a couple more inches height for ground clearance and the basket width might be a little wide to fit in my empty seat cavities where the current drivers are (about 11” to play with). The 460HO driver has 2.8 times the moving mass of the JBL but only an extra mm of Xmax, so maybe it’d be like using three of the 12” drivers but with a lower Fs of 20Hz and thus greater ULF and TR potential than the JBL with an Fs of 28Hz. I’ve already got 6 JBL drivers on hand so no point in letting them go to waste and don’t really want to mix and match.

After someone mentioned the Dayton classic driver, the Classic 15” actually looks to be a pretty solid option for a budget BOSS woofer ($80) with an Fs of 17.5Hz, and with 66% more mms but 25% less Xmax than the JBL so not sure how that’d shake out. I’m guessing any similar woofer with a significantly lower Fs should provide great TR below 25Hz where the JBL is a little lacking compared to Crowsons, but I’m not sure all the driver parameters that equate to awesome TR in such a platform.

I haven’t built the second BOSS platform yet and am second guessing myself now on driver choice, dang it! I think the JBL is a great little driver for it’s super low sale price, but if for just a bit more money...
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Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
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post #683 of 837 Old 05-12-2019, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL, yeah this is a terrible place to be for sure, there is always something new, bigger and better, haha.

I was extremly happy with my stack and BK’s, but here we are, LOL.

If i had a 18" laying around unused, there is no doubt i would try it, man !! DO IT!

Yeah, in order to get all this tested, i am thinking i need to temporary disconnect the 3-piece couch and just do the testing on my seat, it is too much work doing it on the whole couch each time. And then i need to think of and build some kind of modular plattform so i can test all variants and combos in a easy repeatable way.

I think a plattform kind of like in the drawing a few posts up, with some clever MDF/plywood insert could be used for all tests.

Damn that @Gorilla Killa and his 18" monster mega BOSS !

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post #684 of 837 Old 05-13-2019, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, gosh darn it, i went and did it !



These are the SI18HT MK1’s, but they actually have more MMS than MK2, so i guess better for a BOSS use.

They came with DIYSG 4cf flat pack boxes and speakons, so they are plug and play



Duratex’ed and with heavy duty caster wheels on them
It always surpriseses me, but 18" is BIG!



So these will either be used for NF duty, and with the JBL’s for BOSS. Or visa versa, depending on how they perform.

Either way, i can now test if there is a difference between 1x18" as NF vs what i have today with 4xJBL 12", behind each seat.

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post #685 of 837 Old 05-13-2019, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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T/S for the mk2 to the left and mk1 to the right:

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post #686 of 837 Old 05-13-2019, 03:57 PM
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Oh dang ....hell yeah Nalleh!!! Let the testing begin hehehehe

Yeah will be interesting to see how they perform behind your seats compared to 4 JBL 12's behind you, as well as the SlATS subjectively and objectively. Run a VS on them behind you when you get a chance and see how they compare to the VNFs 'only' reading that I posted in the VibSensor thread the other day. That was with the platform setting on the ground. They do pretty good that way and can really be felt. BTW, I'm back to having the platform on the ground again with no ISO's, but isos on top of the platform this time. I haven't posted anything about it yet, but I'm sure the readings will look real similar to what I posted the other day. All combined the ULF TR feels pretty damn crazy. It seems to give the most power in the ULF this way for whatever reason. It's probably hitting up close to 1e+00 on WN-50hz the closer it gets to 10hz (at my reference levels) just like the last readings when setup this way (had no isos at all then though, bottom or top). Isos on top does seems to soften it just about right now though, making it less jarring and more fluid. Was super happy with it today.

Iv'e been though so many configs lately, but I think I may have found my sweet spot setup finally. At least for now. Since I'm sealed again on the floor (or leaky sealed), I think I may try the SLATS in there as well for an experiment just to see how they do, eventually. May work great, may not. Either way though, I'm pretty stoked about the setup now with just the JBLs with platform on the floor, MAs on top, and VNFs combined. Don't know that I need much more, but I'm sure if the SLATS work, it just shoot the low end though the roof to inane levels form what you said about them.

oh yeah, I think I'm gonna try the BK LFE's one more time too, but just not have them contribute much at all under 18hz, as they just don't feel right to me on my seats lower than this. I wish this wasn't so, but it is.
I'm really looking forward to all your testing!!!! Depending on how your 18's do in the BOSS if you try them that way, I may try them as well, but not super motivated to change what I have ATM. Your tests may persuade me, even if it may set me up higher than I want
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post #687 of 837 Old 05-14-2019, 03:35 AM - Thread Starter
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^^ Sounds like you are doing a good deal of testing yourself, LOL. Good work, man

Well, the JBL do look tiny in comparison, LOL



Wheeled it into place for NF duty



Laying down the box gets it closer to the seatback, so it doesn’t get more NF than this(actually dragged it a bit away from couch to take pic).



And i modified the plattform today, so i can now do test just on my left seat, much easier. At the same time i now reconfigured to MA only under plattform, dual layer and 2x Hudson iso in front.

Not sure if it is the return to proper MA setup(front iso only again), or if it is the SI18 NF, but it feels more smooth again, soft deep effertless TR

Preliminary check indicate the SI18 can be used for BOSS with ~ 7 inch high plattform.
And since the height limit i have used on plattform is out the door, i think i can get 4 JBL under there with a 5 inch height.

Not included iso’s though.

And i haven’t even started testing yet. This will be fun
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post #688 of 837 Old 05-14-2019, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a quick test today.
So this info affects the results, so be aware:
4X JBL NF is in the middle position behind couch.
SI18 NF is behind the left seat.

And 2x2 stack of MA is under left seat. And levels are mostly as when in use.

So here i sweeps with the different TR components:

Note: JBL’s is to the left of position, while the SI is right behind, which probably account for the level difference.
1 layer MA isn’t as jagged as it looks, it just has a very different scaling than the rest, because of a tigher result.



And here they are summed. As soon as MA are involved, extension goes below 10hz :



And just using the same EQ as the JBL’s worked great, here is FR:

Note: mic is in center of couch, which accounts for the level difference between JBL and SI.


Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 6xSI18" - 8xJBL 12" BOSS - 4xJBL 12" w/SLAPS M12" VNF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873.
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post #689 of 837 Old 05-17-2019, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Here we go again.

Madness.... Madness i tell you , LOL.



It seems i can manage about 4 inch recessed up into seat chassis, so about 5.5 inch height on plattform. But i need a bit more opening below than just the iso. Just the surround is 1.5 inch height, so i probably need at least 3 inch clearance floor to plattform.

So total plattform height from floor about 9inch.


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post #690 of 837 Old 05-17-2019, 07:19 AM
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^^^ WOW!!!! Oh hell yeah, I cant wait to hear about your thoughts on this!!!! Awesome job with the mount my TR lovin' friend!!! Looks insane, and hopefully it'll feel like it too!!

EDIT: Cool that you have that recess to help out with height!! I don't have any of that, so basically if I do the 18's I'll have to mount them with driver up and it'll put my at least 10-12" with the MAs in there with the isos. Might be worth it, IDK.
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My "Blacked Out" Home Theater Room
1400cuft sealed room, suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo 203 | Epson 5040 4K | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Screen | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | 4x BK LFEs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD

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