My 11.4.12 "Franken-Atmos" living room. - Page 27 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 832Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #781 of 796 Old 06-12-2019, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,389
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2369 Post(s)
Liked: 3023
Managed to watch a couple of movies over the weekend and discovered some popping noises from one of the LFE components during loud ULF transients.

One example is at 10:10 in Captein America Civil War, where black widow is fighting some bad guys, there is a couple of ~15hz bursts that is very loud(look at the BEQ spectrum in Bass EQ thread).

My first suspect was the BOSS unit, as i am not yet limiting them on the amp, but it turned out it was the JB/PR VNF that bottomed out. And it wasn’t the SLAPS, it was the JBL’s. I was thinking, if i have to turn down the level, using a HPF or negative LS, that would affect all content on all listening levels. So once again i activated the compressor function on the 10x10HD. And guess what: it worked perfect for this purpose, it is a soft(totally adjustable) limiter, so you don’t notice it engaging, and it allows you to keep whatever EQ or HC you want, and only limits power when it becomes to much to handle.

It kind of works like a "reverse" Inuke DEQ, only instead of increasing area of the FR curve you choose when lowering the volume, you taylor the FR curve like you want, and instead limit it when it goes bananas

And then i thought: could that approach work on the BK’s too, to prevent them bottoming out, instead of using the negative LS i have been using up until now, and yup, it works equally great there . So then i ran each of my LFE components(exept FF’s) through some of my demo clips, while tweaking the compressor on each output, and ended up with no bottoming, plopping or clacking, just clean deep ULF TR. I was very impressed with how perfect the compressor worked in this case, because i don’t have DSP amps on all my gear, so this was a great solution
DesertDog, SBuger, Kevnmin and 1 others like this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT

Last edited by Nalleh; 06-12-2019 at 06:28 PM.
Nalleh is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #782 of 796 Old 06-13-2019, 09:58 AM
Senior Member
 
BP1Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Columbus, Oh
Posts: 482
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Nice adjustments!

Sony XBR65x900e / STR-DN1080 / original PS4 / WOW! Ultra TV / Quantum Access Mini PC Stick w/Windows 10 / 8 x Rockville SPG88 8“ DJ PA Speakers / Dayton Audio SA1000 / Kicker 08S15L74 in a Tapped-Tapered Quarter Wave Tube (negative flare tapped horn).
BP1Fanatic is offline  
post #783 of 796 Old 06-14-2019, 10:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
DesertDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 745
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 484 Post(s)
Liked: 1381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Managed to watch a couple of movies over the weekend and discovered some popping noises from one of the LFE components during loud ULF transients.

One example is at 10:10 in Captein America Civil War, where black widow is fighting some bad guys, there is a couple of ~15hz bursts that is very loud(look at the BEQ spectrum in Bass EQ thread).

My first suspect was the BOSS unit, as i am not yet limiting them on the amp, but it turned out it was the JB/PR VNF that bottomed out. And it wasn’t the SLAPS, it was the JBL’s. I was thinking, if i have to turn down the level, using a HPF or negative LS, that would affect all content on all listening levels. So once again i activated the compressor function on the 10x10HD. And guess what: it worked perfect for this purpose, it is a soft(totally adjustable) limiter, so you don’t notice it engaging, and it allows you to keep whatever EQ or HC you want, and only limits power when it becomes to much to handle.

It kind of works like a "reverse" Inuke DEQ, only instead of increasing area of the FR curve you choose when lowering the volume, you taylor the FR curve like you want, and instead limit it when it goes bananas
Nice! You said it wasn't the SLAPS but the JBLs bottoming out. Do you think it was the addition of the SLAPS to the box though that allowed the JBLs to start bottoming out?

Mentioning the Inuke DEQ reminded me too that I need to look into how to actually set it up. I've never used it before and wanted to start using it to boost my BOSS up a bit at lower levels.

BEQ Slack group
The struggle is real for Generation Xplain Digital to the Analog and Analog to the Digital.
Klipsch RF-7III, RC-64III
SI HS-24mkIII BOSS-Sac
Sony 85X900F, Denon 8500, nVidia Shield, Apple TV
DesertDog is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #784 of 796 Old 06-14-2019, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,389
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2369 Post(s)
Liked: 3023
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
Nice! You said it wasn't the SLAPS but the JBLs bottoming out. Do you think it was the addition of the SLAPS to the box though that allowed the JBLs to start bottoming out?

Mentioning the Inuke DEQ reminded me too that I need to look into how to actually set it up. I've never used it before and wanted to start using it to boost my BOSS up a bit at lower levels.
Yes, it was because of converting to "ported". Sending the same 300W pr driver to them now, is asking for 25mm+ Xmax from them(at the same 15hz the content in question was), so they bottom out. They no longer has the "stiff air spring" a small sealed box is.
The SLAPS is at ~80mm stroke at that power, so it’s still good .
So, using the compressor took care of the bottoming, but left all the good stuff in there

In fact the compressor works so seamless and unnoticed, that i actually use Low Shelfs on both the BOSS, JBL/PR’s and the BK’s to add as much ULF as possible except for those mega bursts that overpower them

Speaking of, after i read @Sekosche was taking it for a spin, i watched Battle Los Angeles tonight, and O!!!! M!!!!G!!!!!

What a ride!! Holy Moly that movies has a INSANE soundtrack! I used Neural X upmixing for a 9.1.6 config, and altough using even the modern upmixers isn’t a garuantee for a good experience, THIS ONE was ! It had exellent surround and height action and as such was A LOT better than many of the native Atmos/X tracks out there.

And the LFE track...... man it was off the hook! Totally nuts, and BY FAR the best experience i have had in my setup! It was relentless, had very creative use of sounds/effects, guns, bombs, the alien aircrafts, etc.

And it had it all, wobble, punch, sweeps, and all weapons and bombs had different sound signatures, i had such a blast, LOL, i was exhausted after the movie was done, holy cow, HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!! I have of course seen it before, but a long time ago now, with a much smaller setup, so it was such a cool revisit

After my earlier tweaks on the compressors, this was a perfect test to see how it worked, and i am happy to report no bad sounds from my setup, no popping, bottoming, distorsion(although it is probably there, but nut audiable), so that was cool.
In fact i am so impressed with how well all the components work together now, it is awsome, with so many different components that all have their pros and cons, getting them all to cooperate isn’t easy, but it seems i have made them behave together. It is so dynamic, explosive, the wobbles is just nuts, and it is so tight it is like it is trying to slap you. With a BIIIG hand, LOL. And it sounds and feels so effortless, like the headroom is endless, it just keeps going, there is never a time where you think: oh, that was a little over the top. It’s rather : how the hell can it sound/feel like that, without struggling??


Also, i got the 2x SI18" setup in a NF’ish config, like @SBuger has them, to the sides of the MLP along the back wall, and no REW on them yet, just a quick delay and phase setup by ear, but they really seem to "fill out" the LFE better, it sounded more complete and full.


Here is a pic, you can see the SI’s in the outer rear corners. Sorry for the mess, but i was on my way to work, so just a quick pic




Fun times
DesertDog, SBuger and Sekosche like this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT

Last edited by Nalleh; 06-14-2019 at 06:00 PM.
Nalleh is online now  
post #785 of 796 Old 06-14-2019, 08:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,193
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1343 Post(s)
Liked: 3320
I bet Battle L.A. is just relentless on your setup!

I agree about setup complexity being finicky, and I hate recalibrating everything for this reason, because usually I get it just to my liking and then the next big change in the setup I lose a little special sauce doing another calibration and am taking one step forward and another one back. I don’t spend much time these days tweaking anymore now that I know where I like most my settings and haven’t even ran REW in a good while, such a rabbit hole it can be.

Battle L.A. and MMFR are probably the two bass tracks that wear me out to the point of exhaustion when ran full tilt. Speaking of which, I haven’t watched MMFR in a while, but that’s part of the reason why, so brutal!

Looking at the long game now for some serious nearfield subwoofer power, and these “reasonably priced” 21” pro drivers have been calling to me. Just ran across the LaVoce San214.5 Neo drivers that look to be a bargain at only $450 each and seem to be nearly identical to the B&C 21DS115 for $150 less, but they are 8ohm only so I would definitely fall short on power with an iNuke 6K, but I probably wouldn’t need that much anyway. I barely use 5-600w for each of my current 15” nearfields and rarely ever hit the limiter on them.

https://www.parts-express.com/lavoce...8-ohm--293-732

It’s innovative DIY threads like yours that make this hobby so fun, and a never ending journey for what is possible and enjoyable. I’ve been working nights the last 4 years and am finally getting back to day shift soon, so I’ll be looking forward to having more time for projects during the daylight hours. I’ve got a big family vacation coming up at the end of July so probably not a good time to drop another grand on HT gear, but will see if any decent sales pop up to get the ball rolling before the end of summer. And this is only if the wife doesn’t kill me for wanting to already replace my current 4.5 cu ft VNF subs with a larger single 10 cu ft box behind the couch after only a year.

Keep up the good work!
SBuger and Nalleh like this.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
post #786 of 796 Old 06-14-2019, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,389
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2369 Post(s)
Liked: 3023
^^^Thanks man

Hey now, don’t sell yourself short, i bet it is insane on your setup too, with MA’s, BOSS and ported 15" VNF’s, you have a pretty crazy setup too

Oh yeah, the complexity can be daunting when you start tweaking, but what i find extremely satisfying is when you get a better results than when you started Just from tweaking what you already have!
But i agree, i was super happy with my setup after i did the stack MA’s, and had no plans on going further, but as we now: i did, LOL.

But today i am glad i did, because the end result is just staggering, and much better than i hoped. Tried a lot of versions, but have now ended up with a setup i can live with .... i think...

And yes, i too know what works with my setup, and a REW session is rather fast nowadays, so delays, levels and EQ is almost done without measuring. A advantage of knowing your setup and what you like

Yeah, i have been reading about those B&C and LaVoce drivers too, they seem quite spectacular for the money, so they would probably pound something fierce as nearfields, LOL. Seems like they work extremely well i PSA’s new TV36 subs, so yeah, would be fun to try out. Let us know how that goes, if you go there

I work nights and weekends too, so i understand about finding time for projects, however i am single, so no WAF to consider, LOL. I don’t think my setup would be this crazy if i wasn’t, HAHA.

BTW: have you seen Fury lately? It is insane in UHD and Atmos, and it has a awsome LFE track too
SBuger and Kevnmin like this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT

Last edited by Nalleh; 06-14-2019 at 09:04 PM.
Nalleh is online now  
post #787 of 796 Old 06-14-2019, 10:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,193
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1343 Post(s)
Liked: 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post


BTW: have you seen Fury lately? It is insane in UHD and Atmos, and it has a awsome LFE track too

It is insane! I’ve watched the Fury UHD twice already with BEQ too (I think once after adding the first BOSS), and it was spectacular! Such a well balanced track with just brutal midbass, mortar explosions, machine guns galore, and that deep tank rumbling ULF. Although it’s just an updated soundtrack in my setup, it was easily one of my favorite’s of the year.

I posted my brief thoughts on it in the bass thread after @PioManiac recommended it, and how it nearly gave me an anxiety attack at +120dB’s; only time I’ve experienced that from audio. It was the first movie I really let rip after adding the VNF subs, and wow they really made it pound. It’s memories like that when I wonder why/if I really want more bass...but more is usually better.

Now I want to watch Fury again, but first I need to give Lone Survivor a BOSS ride, lol.

The new PSA subs are also what got me looking into pro audio drivers, as those definitely look to be some beasts. I’m still undecided if I want to shoot for a little higher tune in the mid/upper 20’s in a bit smaller cab 5-7cu ft with a pair of boxes or go bigger around 10 cu ft for a 20Hz tune closer to where all my subs are now with a single driver. I guess I could just build one smaller cab for starters and see how I like it, would definitely be the wallet friendly way to go.

I feel like I wouldn’t miss much around 20Hz for TR with all the other fire power I have now, but it’s hard to say without experimenting. The cabs have to be really slim, 14-16” at most for depth to fit behind me and less than 24-26” tall, so I’m not really wanting to build a super long 80”+ single sub enclosure that would be very awkward to handle, which is why I broke up my current VNF into two boxes with one behind each seat.

Luckily, I’ve got a week off now, so plenty of time to get the DIY wheels turning. I think I’ll start a build help thread for potential slim 21” sub designs to verify my WinISD modeling is accurate, and the ideas are sound. We’ll see what the future holds!

Hope you have a good work/weekend!
SBuger, Nalleh and Kevnmin like this.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
post #788 of 796 Old 06-15-2019, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,389
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2369 Post(s)
Liked: 3023
^^^ Yup, Fury was probably the first movie that got me exhausted too, after the first tank battle i was like: "phew, i almost fogot to breathe there". It is awsome !
Yes, all this TR firepower decreases the need for a low tuned NF somewhat, but if tuned to high, it migh be more localizable, so it is a balance. However you can just turn it down, it that happens, so no biggie. But it seems midbass/punch isn’t hard to do, it’s the ULF that is difficult, and that is what i love, so i would actually do as low a tune as possible. But that’s just me

A build thread sounds like a good start

Have a nice weekend you too
SBuger likes this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT
Nalleh is online now  
post #789 of 796 Old 06-16-2019, 07:18 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut.
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Managed to watch a couple of movies over the weekend and discovered some popping noises from one of the LFE components during loud ULF transients.
....I was thinking, if i have to turn down the level, using a HPF or negative LS, that would affect all content on all listening levels. So once again i activated the compressor function on the 10x10HD. And guess what: it worked perfect for this purpose, it is a soft(totally adjustable) limiter, so you don’t notice it engaging, and it allows you to keep whatever EQ or HC you want, and only limits power when it becomes to much to handle.
It kind of works like a "reverse" Inuke DEQ, only instead of increasing area of the FR curve you choose when lowering the volume, you taylor the FR curve like you want, and instead limit it when it goes bananas
Nalleh, can you share more about what you're doing with the compressor function. Either the settings you use or how how you derived the setting to use. I read the manual last night for the 2x4HD I have in my system. It sort of make sense, but I'm still somewhat confused by it.

I'm using an old Sony AVR to power my BOSS. I feel that I have my MV on that unit set just about right, but I do experience the random bottoming out. Last one was in the new Death Wish with Bruce Willis. I didnt time stamp the time, but it was at the bar scene about 3/4 into the movie. The deep ULF music in the background scene was the culprit, but only at one time throughout the whole scene. I think this compressor function would work effectively as you've found.

Sony 75X940E, Denon X6200w, Sony X700, Roku Ultra, MiniDSP 2x4HD
Parasound (2x)HCA-855a, HCA-750a, Sony ES4300
Mission 705a L&R, dual 70c3 C, 703 SL&SR, 705 BL&BR, (4x)Yamaha NSIC800 Atmos
LFE- Front: M&K MX-200 & MX-150THX; Rear: M&K V-75 & Klipsch RW-12
ULF- 4xJBL Mini-riser BOSS + (2x)Aura AST-2B-4 shakers
Kevnmin is offline  
post #790 of 796 Old 06-16-2019, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,389
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2369 Post(s)
Liked: 3023
@Kevnmin :

Sure, no problem.

In this recent case i had a scene that caused the bottoming, so i used that to test the settings. First of all i played that clip repeatedly with only one LFE component active at a time, while increasing the volume up to my normal movie watching level. This way i found which one was bottoming/overpowered.

Then i started by setting the threshold at -25dB to see if it was enough. You can also see when/how much it activates on the vertical green to red bar. If that was enough, try reducing, if not: increase.

The bar only shows what’s above the threshold, so it should only be active on the peaks/loud sounds). So if it is on 0(zero), it is not still activating.



PS: not the settings i use in pic.

I set the ratio at 4-6 (a rather sharp knee), because i want that level to be more of a stop, not just sligthly progressive.

Then there are 3 more settings: attack, hold and release. As explained in the manual, these are for how quick it activates, how long it holds, and how long before it deactivates after the peak is gone.
Once i found the needed threshold level, i tweaked the others setting and ended up on 30-50ms on the attack and release, and 20-30ms on the hold parameters.

This fixed the problem like clockwork
SBuger and Kevnmin like this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT

Last edited by Nalleh; 06-16-2019 at 08:55 AM.
Nalleh is online now  
post #791 of 796 Old 06-16-2019, 12:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut.
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Thanks for the pointers. I'll do some experimenting to find the magic numbers.

By the way, I love the config of your TR sled setup now. The numbers you posted, holy crap!!!!!!!
Nalleh likes this.

Sony 75X940E, Denon X6200w, Sony X700, Roku Ultra, MiniDSP 2x4HD
Parasound (2x)HCA-855a, HCA-750a, Sony ES4300
Mission 705a L&R, dual 70c3 C, 703 SL&SR, 705 BL&BR, (4x)Yamaha NSIC800 Atmos
LFE- Front: M&K MX-200 & MX-150THX; Rear: M&K V-75 & Klipsch RW-12
ULF- 4xJBL Mini-riser BOSS + (2x)Aura AST-2B-4 shakers
Kevnmin is offline  
post #792 of 796 Old 06-16-2019, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,389
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2369 Post(s)
Liked: 3023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
Thanks for the pointers. I'll do some experimenting to find the magic numbers.

By the way, I love the config of your TR sled setup now. The numbers you posted, holy crap!!!!!!!
No worries, and good luck

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT
Nalleh is online now  
post #793 of 796 Old 06-16-2019, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,389
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2369 Post(s)
Liked: 3023
Hmm, just a week in, and i am already planning upgrades, LOL !

Ok, so a i have now loaded my TR Sled with(amongst other) a 4xJBL cantilever BOSS + the 2xJBL+1x PR VNF/BOSS box on top of that. And it works awsome.

But somehow it just seems i have more gas in the tank....i still feel using 8 total JBL’s pumping free air, seems like a waste, altough it works great for TR, and then i end up with just 2 VNF boxes with "just" 4x JBL’s total(+2x PR) for NF SPL.

So the Pr setup i use now is:

2x 4cf NF boxes each with 2xJBL +1 x downfiring SLAPS M12. MMS for BOSS action= 544 x 2= 1088grams.

And then 8x JBL total in cantilever BOSS. MMS= 179 x 8=1432grams

= 2520grams total MMS for the whole couch.

What i am thinking is:

Use the 3x NF boxes each with 4xJBL as i had it from the start, only adding 2x SLAPS m12 downfiring in each box, so MMS=544 x 6= 3262 gram TOTAL (no BOSS).

This way i will get more MMS for better BOSS function, AND still have all the 12x12" JBL’s for VNF duty making SPL. Plus the added low end from the 6x SLAPS.

The WINisd looks rather similar for the 2xJBL+1xPR as it does for the 4xJBL+2xPR, only more midbass for the latter, but no disadvantages.

Yellow is 4x sealed, blue is 2+1PR, and red is 4+2PR. Both active and passive drivers behave similar in both PR setups, stroke wise.



And instead of 1 xPR working at ~60-80mm stroke, i will have 2 per box!

Sounds like a no-brainer in my brain

Oh, and i slapped some paint on the nr2 TR Sled

SBuger and Sekosche like this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT

Last edited by Nalleh; 06-16-2019 at 01:55 PM.
Nalleh is online now  
post #794 of 796 Old Yesterday, 09:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SBuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 2,100
Mentioned: 312 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1141 Post(s)
Liked: 3515
Great stuff man!!

Sounds like the compressor on the mini works great!!

Also, way cool about Battle Los Angeles. I thought I had that one but don't. Need to check it out for sure. I remember that used to be one of coolrda's favorites for full band craziness, right before he became inactive. That and HTTYD (and TIH) of course.

As far as your latest plan, sounds good. I'm sure you'll settle in on the ultimate and be nothing short of AMAZING!! It already is, but will get even better I'm sure There always seems to be room for improvement in this crazy hobby of ours.

Seems kind of strange for me after the last couple months (and even years lol) of seemingly endless experimenting and tweaking, that over the last 3-4 days I've just enjoyed the HT with none of that. Felt reaaaaaaally good actually lol. Finished up the last two seasons of Game of Thrones and some other stuff.

Cool that you mention B:LA upmixed as being so good from 5.1.

I don't know what it is about 5.1, but it seems to upmix very well for the surrounds channels with an amazing kind of atmosphere or something with Neural:X. Even more so than 7.1 for me with the mixes I've tried it on. EX. Tome raider (the latest one) upmixed in N:X was just crazy and better in ways than the actual atmos mix. I thought GoT was amazing as well upmixed with Neural from the 5.1 track.

I do think (at least on my system), that the bass (dynamics, clarity, and just raw precision and power (the kind that is hard to describe)) lacks in comparison to the base mix with no upmixer (Neural or the DSU) whether it be 5.1 or 7.1. The bass is just different and losses something with the upmixers in comparison. Maybe a tad bit better in some ways, but suffers in bigger ways (mainly ULF I think). I've noticed this on just about every track I've done the comparisons on. Pirates: DMTNT actually shocked me at the difference and was sickening to find this out. Yes the overall surrounds where better and more engulfing, but the bass suffered in weird ways like I was trying to describe. Sometimes is doesn't matter, and I didn't really care on GOT because the surround and envelopment was so much better and the bass was still good. And if one doesn't do a direct comparison, you may never know the difference anyway in the bass.

Me and biga use to talk about his quite a bit a while back (before he went missing around here too) and we both found the same thing. Except Neo:X didn't seem to do this with the bass on his, nor did it when I was Neo:X capable on my older system. I wish they still had that as an upmixer option instead of just DSU and Nueral:X only for the older (and sometimes newer) non atmos or dtx movie mixes.

I may be in the extreme minority here though and one of the few that notices it. Or it could just be on my system. It may be different on you system with so many speakers, but on mine with the normal 11 channels, bass suffers with these two umixers. Sounds like it kicked major ass for you though on B:LA and all your speakers (surround and bass). I'm sure it does as well with most content, 5.1 or 7.1 non atmos mixes.

Do you ever find this to be the case for you in what I was trying to describe on non-atmos/dtx mix's with the upmixers or do you find it to be the same or maybe even better in the bass department?

With all your speakers though, you may use one of the upmixers (Neural:X) all the time though, even on native atmos/dtx mix's, IDK. Just curious.
Nalleh likes this.

My "Blacked Out" Home Theater Room
1400cuft sealed room on suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo UDP 203 | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Drop Screen | Epson 5030 PJ | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL-12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD

Last edited by SBuger; Yesterday at 09:40 AM.
SBuger is offline  
post #795 of 796 Old Yesterday, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,389
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2369 Post(s)
Liked: 3023
Thanks man

Yup, you need to get Battle L.A for sure, it is awsome. Can’t believe you don’t have that one, it should be in everyones demo disc pile

Yeah, i need to order some more SLAPS, and then go for that change. Looking into it.

It is great to finally enjoy some movies, huh? I have managed to see a couple too lately, both John Wicks for example(both were awsome), and plan to watch more going forward.

Yeah, some movies gets a tremendous upgrade from the upmixers, while others are just "mehh", so you never can tell going in how it will turn out.
However i always use one of the upmixers, unless it is native Atmos/X/Auro, So i haven’t noticed any difference in the LFE track. The little i have tested that, i did not noticed any difference either, so that sounds strange.

It may be that my setup is tuned to how i normally listen to it, as since i always use upmixers, it is not a problem for me.

However i have noticed that the Auromatic upmixer seem to have a louder LFE track than DSU and X, but haven’t investigated it further.
SBuger likes this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT
Nalleh is online now  
post #796 of 796 Old Yesterday, 04:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SBuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 2,100
Mentioned: 312 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1141 Post(s)
Liked: 3515
Yep for sure, I need to get Battle LA. I did have it at one time on my Hard Drive but lost it. I thought I had replaced it but guess I never did. Gonna do that for sure!! Also glad you mentioned the John Wicks, as I was wanting to re-watch those again to get ready for the 3rd installment but might have forgotten about it with all the other stuff I want to watch as well.

Also I need to go check out that Underworld Awakening again since you mentioned it in the BEQ thread. That used to be one of my absolute favorite Demo movies (lots of scenes) even before BEQ got hot around here. That movie is insane bass wise and will just pummel and shake you death in such a good way. Some of the best bass ever IMO, right there along side MMFR. Those two just deliver in the BIG bass slam you can really feel, even beyond some of the best bass movies around IMO. Maybe its their mega powerful 20-35hz area and the way its used IDK, along with some deep stuff in there too.

You and Sekosche were talking about MMFR and Fury being so awesome and exhausting with so much intensity and some of your best experiences. On my last system, that's how MMFR and Underworld Awakening were to me. I remember letting them rip full out when I use to listen louder with about the same amount of TR system capability I have now, and was exhausting (and even terrifying) in such a great and awesome way LOL Those were the most insane Bass and TR experiences I've ever had back on that system with those two movies. I need to revisit them again on this one, just not quite as loud and see how it compares (I use to listen too loud, because the louder you can listen the more slam you can get). Not good on the ears though if it gets too loud, at least not mine.

Heck, maybe it'll be even better now with this system . A bit different I'm sure, but hopefully as good or better. That'd be cool I demo'd my current favorite today of that street chase scene in 'Venom'. It seemed so brutal and had that certain terrifying feel to it, yet still in complete control. It actually felt like it was hurting my insides from bass intensity (although I know it was mainly TR intensity that just seems like ultra powerful bass), but man was it ever satisfying It's the feeling I've been chasing ever since moving into this new room. I've had it, but wanted more of it. I'm sure you get a real similar kind of feeling and then some on that Battle LA movie (and others) from your descriptions of it (which I loved reading about BTW!! ) I can only image the brutality you get from it on you system!!!!

I also ran those sniper shots again from The Girl in the Spiders Web that Aron was talking about in the BEQ thread. INSANE!!! Have you checked that on out yet? Super cool use of ULF throughout too!! Good movie too I though, if you haven't seen it yet.

But yeah man, so great to finally start enjoying some content and be really happy with the system, as well as through in my normal demo time (which is just so fun and satisfying in its own way )

Cool then on your up mixer experiences, glad to hear it that you don't notice a diff in bass quality or presentation on your killer Frankenatmos system, except louder with Aura!!! That's fantastic, and easy enough to turn your sub trims down a hair too if need be when you do switch to that one.

I wish I didn't notice a diff in bass presentation, but I do on my system. Oh well, there are becoming more and more good ATMOS and DTS:X mixes all the time. I'll have to try it out again though, and Underworld Awakening will be a good one, since its DTS-MA 7.1 still. I'll try normal DTS-MA 7.1 against DSU and Neural:X. The surround I know will be way more immersive with the upmixers, but am pretty sure my bass will suffer from it too as usual, unfortunately. It's not just that's a little louder either, as I do need to usually turn down the trims about .5 to 1 db to level match them better to non umpmixed (from the redirected bass from extra ceiling channels I think), but it's not just that. It's different feeling and lacking in certain areas vs just the plain ole DTS-MA 7.1 track. Whatever the reason on my system, I wish it wasn't so, but it's there ever time I do the comparison on most good movie bass material. I guess I really only care about this on intense demo sessions on some of my favorite tracks. Just movie watching, not near as big of a deal and the better surround is welcomed.

My "Blacked Out" Home Theater Room
1400cuft sealed room on suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo UDP 203 | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Drop Screen | Epson 5030 PJ | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL-12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD
SBuger is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply What's Your System Configuration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off