My 11.4.12 "Franken-Atmos" living room. - Page 28 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #811 of 837 Old 06-19-2019, 01:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
@Nalleh h I'm glad you mentioned your experience with that because just as @SBuger mentioned, I did make the comment about wanting to try the X axis over in the Boss thread. Sounds like you're light years ahead in the TR realm of experiments. I believe I'll pass on the side to side thoughts now and continue to come up with my own version 2 -most likely more of the cantilever design rather than under seat.
Yeah, IMO X-axis is a bonus axis: if you get some action from it, fine. If not, no need to chase it


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Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Yes, but I'm talking about not something actually mounted to the side of you, I'm talking about maybe a BK underneath you but just mounted sideways, (not normal mounting and off to the side). Or even a driver or something. Make sense? May not be any good though, IDK. Could possible give too much X as well, again IDK. Was just a thought since you are master of experiment

When you had the BK mounted on the sides, you just had them mounted normal side up vertical right? Yes, I agree, pull to one side or the other is not good and seems out of balance if you can feel it (not good at all!). Not the same as side to side motion though (X axis).

EDIT: oh yeah, meant to comment on your graphs above too. BIG difference!!!!
Ok, i see what you mean now.

I don’t think i will be pursuing that subject

Yes, the BK’s were mounted vertical.


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Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
You know they've made some more of them, right? What's another 8 to go along with what you already have? THey're almost all hidden.

That's a quote to keep
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
^^^ LOL ..now that's funny and yep a keeper for sure

and yeah, heck what's another 8 x 12's in addition for more canti BOSS action, you've gone this far
Yeah, sorry about that guys, i wrongly assumed a goal in sight, but will go on to search every webstore for MOAR JBL’s! NEED MOAR JBL’s.....
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post #812 of 837 Old 06-19-2019, 02:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chroman View Post
Been a big fan of your setup, do you happen to have a diagram of both AVRs (pre-outs, zones, etc) to see how everything is connected (similar to the diagram on first page with three AVRs)? I'm still wrapping my head around that. For context, I have a X8500H and I'm considering getting a cheap X6200W to expand the hardware limitation for more channels (Planning to do > 9.2.4). Thank you!
Thanks
I will look into it, but i seem to have problems using the program i used for the drawings. So we’ll see.

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post #813 of 837 Old 06-19-2019, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Yeah, IMO X-axis is a bonus axis: if you get some action from it, fine. If not, no need to chase it




Ok, i see what you mean now.

I don’t think i will be pursuing that subject

Yes, the BK’s were mounted vertical.







Yeah, sorry about that guys, i wrongly assumed a goal in sight, but will go on to search every webstore for MOAR JBL’s! NEED MOAR JBL’s.....
No need to be sorry man, we're just messin' with ya since your TR is already better than ours

Also, no worries on the pursing more X axis moment with something mounted differently, was just throwing it out there since I think your were wanting to get as much (all) axis overlay as possible (if one is going to lag any, it always seems to be X). Like I was saying before, might suck, might not. But probably not something i'd be interested in messing with either with sideways mount. Especially since I dint know what to think about the feel, when I was getting a lot more X axis down real low there for a short while with a driver firing sideways.
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post #814 of 837 Old 06-19-2019, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Thanks
I will look into it, but i seem to have problems using the program i used for the drawings. So we’ll see.
@Nalleh Thank you!

Question, I still do not fully understand how exactly the wide extraction works (AVR connection level), but a 9.1.4 system could be upgraded to 11.1.4 by adding an extra AVR configured as 5.1.4+Wides (w/ rears @110 degrees) so you get mixed sound from Surrounds/Rears? Does this need some kind of extraction?

Last edited by chroman; 06-19-2019 at 11:18 AM.
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post #815 of 837 Old 06-19-2019, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
No need to be sorry man, we're just messin' with ya since your TR is already better than ours

Also, no worries on the pursing more X axis moment with something mounted differently, was just throwing it out there since I think your were wanting to get as much (all) axis overlay as possible (if one is going to lag any, it always seems to be X). Like I was saying before, might suck, might not. But probably not something i'd be interested in messing with either with sideways mount. Especially since I dint know what to think about the feel, when I was getting a lot more X axis down real low there for a short while with a driver firing sideways.
No worries

Yeah, the problem with X-axis is we have "no control" over it! The LFE channel is a mono channel, and as such can’t differentiate between left and right motion.

Now, the DBox is another matter completely, as it not only have complete control over motion in ALL three axis, but it also has a seperate encoded signal in the audiotrack, so it can control for example X-axis in accordance to what happens on screen, like a car chase and a left turn, by tilting the DBox plattform. If you look at demo videos on YouTube, it looks like quite a ride, LOL.

BUT SUPER EXPENSIVE !!!!
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post #816 of 837 Old 06-19-2019, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chroman View Post
@Nalleh Thank you!

Question, I still do not fully understand how exactly the wide extraction works (AVR connection level), but a 9.1.4 system could be upgraded to 11.1.4 by adding an extra AVR configured as 5.1.4+Wides (w/ rears @110 degrees) so you get mixed sound from Surrounds/Rears? Does this need some kind of extraction?
Yes, that is exactly as i do it now with just two AVR’s. One set up as 9.1.4 and the other as 5.1.4 +wides.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 6xSI18" - 8xJBL 12" BOSS - 4xJBL 12" w/SLAPS M12" VNF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873.
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post #817 of 837 Old 06-22-2019, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Time to get the whole couch in on the fun (poor right seat has just had MA’s for weeks now, LOL):

So got the second TR Sled in place to se how it fits.



Used some more 2x4 lumbar with metal plates/brackets(to save height). Should have thought about this expansion form the start



Then i took it apart, and flipped it over to put some 3/4" board pieces to connect the underside.



It actually ended up VERY stiff. If i lift one corner, there is no give!! It lifts the whole plattform

So now there is the (right side)BOSS and JBL/PR part of the TR Sled left to mount. Will do that tomorrow
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post #818 of 837 Old 06-22-2019, 12:41 PM
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OMG! Keep up the insanity!
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post #819 of 837 Old 06-23-2019, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so today i can say i have completed the TR Sled project The upgrade to 4JBL2SLAPS will get done, but no rush just yet. It is working just CRAAAZY as it is now, complete with both sides done, so i will relax and watch some movies

So, 4x JBL BOSS done on the right seat. Never mind the messy wires, it is hidden in normal use



Here is a better view of both sides.



Second JBL/PR done converted. Using just a blockout plate for this one too, easy enough to convert further down the line.



And mounted.



A LOT of firepower in this pic, LOL.

Per seat: 2xBK in front, 2x MA in the middle(2x2 stack on the left seat), 4x JBL cantilever BOSS and 2x JBL VNF box on top with SLAPS passive radiator downfiring for BOSS duty.

So basically double all that for the whole couch



And what’s cool is with the couch in place, it is mostly hidden, LOL.
Stealth setup indeed

Just ran trough some demo clips afterwards, and it is just bollocks!! Totally nuts with wooble, insanely sharp attack and displacement like no tomorrow. It’s got everything, and in spades, holy cow. Pretty stoked with the results, i must say
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post #820 of 837 Old 06-23-2019, 12:06 PM
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Incredible!
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post #821 of 837 Old 06-23-2019, 07:38 PM
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WOW, insanely cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fantastic job on getting both sleds built and connected!!! I can only imagine how insane that feels!!!

So with them connected, do you think its better then vs just one sled? Better or not, a bit different feel or no?
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post #822 of 837 Old 06-23-2019, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
WOW, insanely cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fantastic job on getting both sleds built and connected!!! I can only imagine how insane that feels!!!

So with them connected, do you think its better then vs just one sled? Better or not, a bit different feel or no?
Thanks man

Yeah, it feels better now, the plattform is more stable and uniform. Probably because of how i split it before, since the centersection was not part of my seat, it only had the MA’s from the right seat, while now it has all of it.
Only negative it is back to being jiggly when the other person moves in his seat. But since the plattform is a lot more rigid now, it isn’t as bad as before.

The whole ting is kind of heavy now thought, LOL. But the effect doesn’t seem lessened by it, on the contrary, it seems more planted and precise.

I tried to make a video of the SLAPS and BOSS moving, but it wasn’t very good. I thought they would be close to bottoming based on how it felt, but they didn’t move as much as i expected. Awsome !

Oh, and because of the weigth and the sticky isolators, i can no longer move the couch so my seat is in center when i watch alone, LOL. But i’ll get used to it

All in all, this is the best setup of all the ones i have tested, and the difference is MASSIVE!!!!!!! It is not one step up from before, it is impoved in every way by a pretty big margin.

Now that i have arrived at a sort of goal with the project, i still have some tweaking to do with final levels, EQ and delay on it all, i still think there is more in it, but that is icing on the cake
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post #823 of 837 Old 06-23-2019, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the video anyway.

Bad focus, bad phone mic, and the noise is from the seat being unloaded and getting airlifted, LOL.

But you can still see the plattform moving

The clip is from the (newer) Poltergeist movie and with no BEQ.

https://i.imgur.com/o6PsmZN.mp4
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post #824 of 837 Old 06-24-2019, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Pics of the nearfield setup. Although not much is revealed, LOL.





And my love for the NF’ish SI18" continue to grow, i love how they fill out and contributes to a fuller more weighty LFE sound, i run both of them from one channel of NU6K and the 4x BK on the other channel, and it seems plenty
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post #825 of 837 Old 06-24-2019, 07:14 AM
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That's the way it should be, nice and stealth while delivering those body bLOWs!
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post #826 of 837 Old 06-24-2019, 09:24 AM
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Wow man, you can't even really tell you have all that massive TR firepower under and behind by sight. Can just see a little bit of your VNFs if you really look. Yep, nice and stealth like BP1 said, while delivering the terror

Cool your really liking the NFs, I know I really like mine too in the way that they contribute in their location.

I did a little something different with my VNFs this weekend that seems to work great. I had been meaning to do it, but just never got it done. Didn't take long, so it was cool. I may post a pic of it in my thread when I get a chance.
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post #827 of 837 Old 06-24-2019, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Ok, so today i can say i have completed the TR Sled project The upgrade to 4JBL2SLAPS will get done, but no rush just yet. It is working just CRAAAZY as it is now, complete with both sides done, so i will relax and watch some movies

So, 4x JBL BOSS done on the right seat. Never mind the messy wires, it is hidden in normal use



Here is a better view of both sides.



Second JBL/PR done converted. Using just a blockout plate for this one too, easy enough to convert further down the line.



And mounted.



A LOT of firepower in this pic, LOL.

Per seat: 2xBK in front, 2x MA in the middle(2x2 stack on the left seat), 4x JBL cantilever BOSS and 2x JBL VNF box on top with SLAPS passive radiator downfiring for BOSS duty.

So basically double all that for the whole couch



And what’s cool is with the couch in place, it is mostly hidden, LOL.
Stealth setup indeed

Just ran trough some demo clips afterwards, and it is just bollocks!! Totally nuts with wooble, insanely sharp attack and displacement like no tomorrow. It’s got everything, and in spades, holy cow. Pretty stoked with the results, i must say
@Nalleh , Man I have a UM18-22 in a 4cuft box, a 12" Klipsch Sub and a AuraSound AST-2B-4 shaker on each chair and the bass is INSANE!!! How in the world are you managing all of those subs and tactile feedback!

My wife would refuse to watch anything with me with all that bass!
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post #828 of 837 Old 06-24-2019, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by BP1Fanatic View Post
That's the way it should be, nice and stealth while delivering those body bLOWs!
I know, right
A lot of work and hours put into it, and almost impossible to see it, LOL.
But you will feel it

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Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Wow man, you can't even really tell you have all that massive TR firepower under and behind by sight. Can just see a little bit of your VNFs if you really look. Yep, nice and stealth like BP1 said, while delivering the terror

Cool your really liking the NFs, I know I really like mine too in the way that they contribute in their location.

I did a little something different with my VNFs this weekend that seems to work great. I had been meaning to do it, but just never got it done. Didn't take long, so it was cool. I may post a pic of it in my thread when I get a chance.
Yeah, NF’ish is another one of your ideas i have adopted, so thanks for that too I had it in the back of my head when i got them. Although they PROBABLY was a bit better as BOSS in the single digits because of the massive stroke, i still think the current setup is the best compromise, considering the extra height the VNF would have with them as BOSS.

However, IF i use them as BOSS, i COULD do the beforementioned 4JBL2PR boxes in combination with BOSS.....

It never ends.....

Dude! Now you HAVE to tell more about this VNF change you did! I am curious Post pics in your thread please

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Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
@Nalleh , Man I have a UM18-22 in a 4cuft box, a 12" Klipsch Sub and a AuraSound AST-2B-4 shaker on each chair and the bass is INSANE!!! How in the world are you managing all of those subs and tactile feedback!

My wife would refuse to watch anything with me with all that bass!
Well, first of all i am single(no wonder, right?), so no wife to consider, LOL.
But yeah this is bordering insanity, i’ll admit. But i just love to tinker, and always wonder: what if? And this last project was mostly done with gear i already had, just did a massive reconfiguring, and in that regard, the improvement is staggering

And yeah, i didn’t start with this, my first venture into TR was some tiny, puny, cheap "Sinus Live BassPUMP" shakers, and i was hooked. Down the rabbit hole, you know.

But this complex setup isn’t exactly for newbies
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post #829 of 837 Old 06-25-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post

Yeah, NF’ish is another one of your ideas i have adopted, so thanks for that too I had it in the back of my head when i got them. Although they PROBABLY was a bit better as BOSS in the single digits because of the massive stroke, i still think the current setup is the best compromise, considering the extra height the VNF would have with them as BOSS.

However, IF i use them as BOSS, i COULD do the beforementioned 4JBL2PR boxes in combination with BOSS.....

It never ends.....

Dude! Now you HAVE to tell more about this VNF change you did! I am curious Post pics in your thread please
LOL, isn't that the truth about it never ends hahahahaha

I said I was done the other day, but already changed a little something on the VNFs. It's not much of a change other than a lift mainly after trying a few different things, but made a hell of a diff in feel. Will post a bit about it here in a few or later tonight.
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post #830 of 837 Old 07-04-2019, 03:29 PM
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@Nalleh did you ever test the JBL+SLAPS without the BOSS riser? I'm thinking of doing my VNF boxes now and adding in the BOSS expansion later. So I'm wondering if it's work putting the SLAPS in right away or adding them when the BOSS expansion happens. I've also been toying with using 4 of the DIY Sound Group's Buyout 15" Subwoofer instead of 8 JBLs. Not much of a price difference with the JBLs not going on sale and the size will work a little better.

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post #831 of 837 Old 07-04-2019, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
@Nalleh did you ever test the JBL+SLAPS without the BOSS riser? I'm thinking of doing my VNF boxes now and adding in the BOSS expansion later. So I'm wondering if it's work putting the SLAPS in right away or adding them when the BOSS expansion happens. I've also been toying with using 4 of the DIY Sound Group's Buyout 15" Subwoofer instead of 8 JBLs. Not much of a price difference with the JBLs not going on sale and the size will work a little better.
Yes, but only in a frontfacing config. That was the first test i did with SLAPS, and i covered that earlier in the thread. It worked awsome like that too, just on the floor as a VNF, with much more TR in your back/ chest than the 4xJBL.
Sure you can build your VNF boxes now, just take into account how you will mount them later on the riser, so you don’t need to modify the boxes to do that.

Yeah, that 15" probably is a better choise, but at $150 a pop, that’s $600 for 4 drivers, while 8 JBL’s at ~$50 each is $400. And with that 15" you would probably use a 1:1 ratio of active vs passive driver, but with the numbers you speak of, that should be fine.
It doesn’t list Mms of that driver, but presumably it is more than the JBL, so it should be a great BOSS driver
Do you have any plans/drawings of how it will look?

Edit: just realized the 15" wasn’t meant for BOSS duty, but for VNF Nevertheless it should work awsome
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post #832 of 837 Old 07-04-2019, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Yes, but only in a frontfacing config. That was the first test i did with SLAPS, and i covered that earlier in the thread. It worked awsome like that too, just on the floor as a VNF, with much more TR in your back/ chest than the 4xJBL.
Sure you can build your VNF boxes now, just take into account how you will mount them later on the riser, so you don’t need to modify the boxes to do that.

Yeah, that 15" probably is a better choise, but at $150 a pop, that’s $600 for 4 drivers, while 8 JBL’s at ~$50 each is $400. And with that 15" you would probably use a 1:1 ratio of active vs passive driver, but with the numbers you speak of, that should be fine.
It doesn’t list Mms of that driver, but presumably it is more than the JBL, so it should be a great BOSS driver
Do you have any plans/drawings of how it will look?

Edit: just realized the 15" wasn’t meant for BOSS duty, but for VNF Nevertheless it should work awsome
Thanks! I already designed out the expansion with the 8 JBLs. It was going to be along the lines of the attached drawing. So what I was thinking of doing now is building the boxes and the the legs to have it behind the couch. Then when I want to pull apart the BOSS and expand it I can attach it to the platform.

I haven't redone it for the 15s yet. But what they'll allow me to do is cut 10" off of the length of it to match the couch size. That's one of the things drawing me to go with the 15". I didn't like the 5" outcropping on each side of the couch. I'll also be able to position it so that each of the seating positions has a 15 firing directly into it. The 12s don't match up directly.

The Xmax on them is 14.25 mm. That's a Vd of 1173.77 cm^3 which is just under half of a SLAPS (2453cm3) so I was figuring 1:1 with them vs 2:1 with the JBLs (666cm3). So 4 SLAPS either way.
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post #833 of 837 Old 07-04-2019, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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^^ Great! Looks like you have it all under control Make it so !

"Approved by the TR King"
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post #834 of 837 Old 07-05-2019, 06:37 PM
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^^ Great! Looks like you have it all under control Make it so !

"Approved by the TR King"
We need to make a seal with that for you so that you can stamp our stuff.
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post #835 of 837 Old 07-07-2019, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Nothing major going on here these days, just enjoying watching movies I am just in awe of how incredible it all works together now, so it is just plug and play

A couple of small teething problems has surfaced. The screws i use on each side of the MA’s to keep them from moving, sometimes make a squeeky sound, and the right side BOSS sometimes have a little rattle at around 50hz. No biggie though.

But i am about to leave for 4 weeks vacation, so i will look into it after that
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post #836 of 837 Old 07-07-2019, 07:52 AM
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Awesome!! Yeah, you’ve got your TR config nailed down and all working together great now huh!! A few little noises here and there will be an easy fix for you I’m sure when you get back.

Speaking of, wow 4 weeks!? That ought to be a great vaca!! But can you survive being away from that wicked cool system of yours for that long?? hahahaha

I’ve been away from mine for about 4 days this week and can hardly wait to get back to it LOL. A get away is great though for many reasons and can make one appreciate their system even more once you get back to it though

Cool on your movie watching! I’ve been enjoying quite a few lately too with the new config. Nice to have them working like we want huh
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post #837 of 837 Old 07-07-2019, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^Yeah, after the last tweaks i did with the compressors and levels, i basically haven’t touched the setup! It just flat out works, which is just awsome

Yes, i have three weeks vacation, and since i work a shift cycle, my week off comes the week before the vacation weeks, so yeah: 4 weeks! I’ll be visiting my folks, so that will be nice

I will miss my HT for sure! It is torture, LOL, but as you say a time apart makes one appreciate it more when i am back, and it will be nice with a break from work

Indeed, watching movies is the point of doing this, so it is awsome to be able to just sit back and press PLAY

So, even if i will be around, it wouldn’t be to much updates in the thread.

But "I’ll be back"

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