AVS Forum banner

My 11.4.12 "Franken-Atmos" living room.

184K views 1K replies 87 participants last post by  Nalleh 
#1 · (Edited)
My 13.4.12 "Franken-SWAtmos" living room.



EDIT april -23.

Denon finally came out with a AVR capable of Atmos 9.4.6 all with inboard amp channels, so i ditched the Franken Atmos and went legit😂😂 Read on from post 1303 👍


I get a lot of questions about my setup, so i tought i could make a thread explaining it a little more. And maybe some pics too.

Short version: i use more than one Atmos AVR's to expand beyond the 7.1.4/9.1.2 hardware limit on todays affordable gear.

Updated may 2019: ventured into the BOSS world of shakers, post 562..
Updated Mars 2019: stacked Crowson motion actuators and Buttkickers, post 498.

Updated may 2018: new nearfield solution with 12x12" JBL’s behind the couch. Starts at post 281.


UPDATED MARCH 2018


Ok, here we go again. Since reading about the new Denon flagship receiver capable of 13.1 and all amps built in, i had to make changes. So i sold the 5200 and 6200 and have now gotten the brand new AVC-X8500H. So no i can either do 9.1.4 or 7.1.6 with JUST the 8500, or as i have it configured for now 7.1.6 from the 8500 and 9.1.2 from the 7200 for a total of 9.1.6. And this is as correct 9.1.6 as you can get in this price range. And i can also do a (nearly) correct DTS:X 9.1.6. Auro is coming in a May update and will be 13.1. So i should be covered either way.

And if i want(and will test later on) i can still do the 13.1.8 setup i had earlier, but now i just need these two AVR’s. The 8500 for 9.1.4 (FH+RH), and the 7200 setup with 5.1.4+W for special wides and special surround + TF+TR.

So gear now is:

Gear.
Oppo BDP-203 UHD player(regionfree)
XBOX ONE X
Canal Digital HD PVR satellite-box
Apple TV3
(Darbee Darblet and MARSEILLE MCABLE for 1080P content)
Denon AVC-X8500H
Denon AVR-X7200WA
Yamaha RX-V3067
3 X Inuke NU6000DSP
JVC DLA RS600
Dreamscreen V2 dynagrey 120" screen
Samsung UE65JU7005 UHDTV
Harmony Ultimate.
Front=Klipsch RF-82 mk1
Center=Klipsch RC-64 mk2
Wide= Dynavoice Challenger M65 V3
Surr= Klipsch RS52
WideSur1/Sur2=Klipsch RS42
Surrback= KEF3005SE
Height speakers= 10x KEF3005SE
Nearfield mid-bass= Behringer B1200D
LFE= 2 X Sonosubs with 2 X SI18HT v2 in Dual Opposed config.
4x Crowson Shadow8 motion actuators
MiniDSP 2X4 balanced

Read more in post 259 :)


OLDER SETUP:


Did a quick and dirty diagram of the setup.
Blue speakers powered by the 7200.
Red speakers powered by the 6200.
Yellow speakers powered by the 5200.





I will try to have the first post as updated about the setup as possible, and then take the details as we go.

Edit: updated Feb -17:

My HT is in the right half of my living room, and the room dimensions are:

5.1x4.1x2.4 meter

16.5Wx13.5Dx7.8H feet


EDIT sep17:

Or about 1800 cubic feet
(+ the other half).

Gear.
Panasonic DMP-UB900 UHD player
HD FURY Integral
Oppo BDP-103 BD player
Darbee Darblet
Canal Digital HD PVR satellite-box
Apple TV3
PS3 (fat)
XBOX360
Denon AVR-X7200WA
Denon AVR-X6200W
Denon AVR-X5200W
Yamaha RX-V3067
Inuke NU6000DSP
JVC DLA X500R
Dreamscreen V2 dynagrey 120" screen
Samsung UE65JU7005 UHDTV

Front=Klipsch RF-82 mk1
Wide= Dynavoice Challenger M65 V3
Center=Klipsch RC-64 mk2
Surr= Klipsch RS52
WideSur1/Sur2=Klipsch RS42
Surrback= KEF3005SE
Height speakers= 10x KEF3005SE
Nearfield mid-bass= Behringer B1200D
LFE= SVS PB12-Plus/2
ULF= PSA S3000i +4x Crowson Shadow8 motion actuators
MiniDSP 2X4 balanced

All controlled by a Logitech Harmony Ultimate with the hub+4 extenders.

So my earlier setup was a Denon 7200/5200 combo, to get 7.1.4 + Wides + 8 channels of height speakers, for a 9.1.8 setup, explained further down on page(behing the spoiler), but i recently got a 6200 to gain HDMI 2.0 and DTS:X on the second AVR. Then i discovered "Special Wides" descrided in post 67 in this thread. Since i now had 3 Atmos AVR's, this gave me the opportunity to gain both 2 set of wides, AND keep my 8 channels of heights, for a grand total of 13.1.8 in native Atmos and 9.1.8 on DTS:X.




In daily TV use, i have just the 7200 playing DSU in a 7.1.4 setup, but it has all 14 speakers connected, for a 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS:X or 10.1 Auro 3D setup.

So in native Atmos, setup is as follows:
7200 switched to 9.1.2 for fronts @ 25 degrees, "Pure Wides" @ 50 degrees, "Pure Surrounds @ 85 degrees and Surround backs @150 degrees. Playing only 9.1.0(note 1)(note5).



6200 setup as 5.1.4+Wides(note2) for Wides/Sur1 @ 70 degrees, Sur2/Rears @110 degrees and Top Front+ Top Rear. Playing Wides, Sur2, and Tops(note4).



5200 setup as 5.1.4 for Front Height and Rear Height. Playing 0.0.4
(note 1)(note 2)(note3).



So basically the 7200 plays 9.1.0, while the 5200 plays 0.0.4(heights).
And 6200 plays 5.0.4(Wide/Sur1+Sur2/Rear+Tops).



As you can see in the little channel indicators in front display, the 7200(to the left) plays SB and WIDES, the 6200(bottom right) plays wides but no SB's and the 5200 (top right) plays no wides and no SB's.
As before, they are linked together via HDMI ZONE2 daisy-chained to the next AVR.

I only need on/off and main volume changes on the 6200/5200, so one original remote(and Harmony ultimate) handles that very well.

Note 1: both the 7200 and 5200 front and rear heights pre-out goes to the main and zone2 outputs of the Yama, so i just use the remote to switch the heights currently beeing used between the 7200 and 5200. So when the 7200 is in 9.1.2 mode, i let the 5200 power the heights.

Note 2: both the 6200 and 5200 wides pre-out goes to zone3 on the Yama, so i can choose wich one powers the Wide/sur1 speakers. This way i can use Neo:X wides from the 5200 in DSU(wich do not use wides).

Note 3: in Auro 3D, the 7200 powers the full 10.1 possible. But i can copy the 5200 surrounds(in Auro mode) to the surround back speakers(silent in Auro 10.1) for Auro "12.1" This way i get more "rear fill" than with just the 7200 surrounds @85 degrees. This is done with a dual source speaker switch. I can also power the Surround Heights with the 5200 if i change amp assign to FH+SH, for Auro "14.1".

Note 4: i have a "Center Height" speaker above the screen. This is connected to the center output of the 6200, and works as a "dialog lift", and also helps pannings between the front heights.

Note 5: the 7200 powers a VOG(sub2 pre-out) used in Auro 3D. In other formats, i can matrix a VOG using PL2 in the Yama extracted from the rear heights.


After all this was connected, all 3 AVR's got a full Pro calibration. This took a while...



I got a third !?! Kef3005SE 5.1 speaker kit for this upgrade. I switched out the surround backs from Klipsch to Kef, and the rear heights from white to black Kef's.



And got rid of the bookshelfs used as Surround Heights for white Kef's.
See the Kef sub on top of the Bluray rack? I now have bass-managment on the rear heights ;)




Older setup behind spoiler, no longer used. Too complicated :(

7200 Audyssed with 7.1.4 FH+RH+wides+VOG. 14 speakers.
5200 Audyssed with 7.1.4 TF+TR+wides. 13 speakers.

In native Atmos, my 7200 is playing 7.1.4, no SB+FW.

My 5200 is playing TF+TR.
However: since the 7200 has deactivated SB's in this case, and they then are downmixed into the surrounds, I switch the surrounds and surround-backs over to the 5200, via my old AVR(Yama 3067 set up as a multisource(all three zones) active speaker switch).

So the 5200 also plays surrounds and SB's.

="TRUE" 9.1.8 ;)

When playing native DTS:X (wich is limited to 7.1.4 anyway) from the 7200, i can play wides from the 5200 in Neo:X mode(matrixed from fronts and surrounds in both cases anyway).

And then when playing native Auro 3D, the 7200 plays 10.1, and if the track is 13.1, the 5200 can fill in with surround backs.




Setup. Ok, so a little more in detail how it all is connected.

The two AVR's are simply connected with a HDMI cable from the 7200 zone2 HDMI OUT, to AV1 input on the 5200. This output is a copy of the input, untouched, unprocessed, full sound and picture.

From the 7200 the speakers are:

Front LR= 7200.

Center=7200.

Surrounds= goes trough a dual source-dual output speaker switch.
Input A is from the 7200 surround speakers
Input B is from the 5200 surround speakers
Output 1 goes to surround speakers 1 at 85 degrees
Output 2 goes to surround speakers 2 at 110 degrees
So i can choose wich surround should play, even both sets from on AVR. Or one from each. Like when i deactivate the 7200 SB's to gain the wides, i can let the 5200 play surround1 and SB's, and then let the 7200 play the surround2.

Surround back= Both 7200 and 5200 surround back pre-outs goes to Yama AVR zone2 input audio1 and audio2. So i can choose wich plays the SB's. I also have a input from 5200 surrounds here, so i can copy the surrounds to surround back, eg in Auro.

Front wides= goes trough a second dual source-dual output speaker switch.
Input A is from the 7200 front wide speakers.
Input B is from the 5200 front wide speakers.
So either the 7200 or the 5200 can power the wides.

Front height= 7200.

Rear height= 7200 pre-out goes to Yama AVR main zone input AV1
I can choose stereo(2speakers) or PL2 matrixing to the center channel, VOG(3speakers).
Rear height is also connected via a Y-connector to the Yama multi ch front input.

Top surround(Auro 3D)= 7200 sub2 pre-out goes to Yama multi ch input, center channel.

So by switching the Yama from AV1 input(Atmos/DTS:X) to multi ch input (Auro 3D) i get correct signal to rear height and top surround).

From the 5200 the speakers are:

Front LR= connected to 7200 multi ch inputs, fronts. When calibrating or playing from 5200, the 7200 is switched to multi ch.

Center= 5200 to a center height.

Surrounds= see above dual source speaker switch.

Surround back= see above Yama zone2.

Front wides= see above second dual source speaker switch.

Top fronts= 5200.

Top rears= 5200 pre-out goes to Yama AVR Zone 3.

Surround height(Auro 3D)= 5200 pre-out is also connected via a Y-connector to Yama AVR main zone multi ch input, surround channels.

So on the Yama, if i turn of zone3(top rear) and switch to multi ch, the 5200 height2 signal is directed to the surround heights(Auro 3D).

I have a lot of flexibility with this setup, but it is not advisable to leave the remote with grandma :)

Some pics of the recently redone living room.





























 
See less See more
25
#97 ·
Got a little upgrade today:



Got a good deal on a used JVC RS600, so the X500 has to go:



This projector is insane! There is so much light and everything is upgraded compared to X500, so every movie is jawdropping.

Also got a Linker, so i can load @Manni01 custom gamma curves, so this should be fun :)

 
#99 ·
Got a little upgrade today:

...

Also got a Linker, so i can load @Manni01 custom gamma curves, so this should be fun :)
Hi Nalleh,

Looks great, I'm sure you're going to enjoy this upgrade a lot :)

Just to clarify, the linker isn't necessary to load the custom gamma curves. It's only necessary to prevent the JVC from forcing Gamma D whenever it detects HDR, and also to allow the DI in HDR. Without the linker, you can still load custom gamma curves but you have to select them manually every time you start a film, and you can't enable the DI with HDR content.

Have fun!
 
#98 ·
And i renamed the sources on the 3 AVR's. You like? (Bottom right one)

 

Attachments

#103 ·
@Nalleh

I was wondering, did you ever experiment with a double pair of TMs (FH-TM + TM-RH) instead of the FH-RH + TF-TR combination you are using now? The advantage would be not having a signal intended for the TM position spread all the way from front to back.
 
#104 · (Edited)
Yeah, i did try 'overlapping' vs 'on top of each other' setups.

Consider this:

In a dual TM Setup, if a overhead sound/panning goes from the rear to front(or vica versa), setup1(FH+TM) has to start that sound in the TM, or right above you, and pans to the front(FH), while setup2 (TM+RH) starts it (correctly) from the rear(RH), and ends at TM, above you= sounds from 2 different places all the way=smearing.

Either way you get more action from above, but less precise with dual TM's.

My setup might be called a 'wide TM' setup, as both setups has to phantom TM, but it is more stable because of a height(wide) setup and a top(narrow) setup = more speakers placed different trying to sound from the same place.

Remeber the placement of all my overhead speakers is not correct, with all 4 tops in front of MLP, but placed as equidistant along the ceiling as possible.
 
#105 ·
Ideas, ideas.

That Depotter dude got me thinking AGAIN !

In Auro 3D my 4 Atmos tops are unused. In the Auro guidelines it says you can use 4 VOG's, and you can use Atmos guidelines for the tops for these. So i am going to see if i can test this.

Auro to the left and Atmos to the right:

 
#106 · (Edited)
Ok, so the discussion leading up to this test started in the Auro thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...ad-home-theater-version-161.html#post53483330

Where Auro saids that 2 or 4 Atmos tops can be used for Auro Top Surrounds, so since i have both heights and tops, and my tops are unused in Auro, i thought i could see if it could work.

First, even though there are guidelines for this( on Atmos and Auro, discussed in the link), i was left with what i already had setup as ceiling speakers. This means they are not quite according to specs.
My seating arrangement is a two seater recliner, so there is a left and a right MLP.
I have a correct placed Top Surround today, used for Auro 10.1. Straight up and centered.
I have Atmos top Fronts @45 degrees median, placed a little inside the front speakers, @2.5 meters apart(left/right).
And Top Rears @ ca 80 degrees median, in other words slightly in front of MLP, same width as TF.

So what i did was rewire the 4 Atmos tops to a ext. amp with a speaker A and speaker B output, so i could switch between one set, or both. Sent top surround pre-out from the Denon 5200 to this amp via a y-connector, and this way i could test all options.

However i have tested more than one top surround before, where i used my (then) top middles as top surrounds, and did not like it, as it moved the resulting sound from VOG to my left side MLP, and almost past my straight up position, or from my top middle left speaker. And that did not sound 'correct' in my opinion.

And i got the same result now. Engaging either Top Rear or Top Front as Auro Top Surround shifted the sound to my leftside MLP, and it sounded like only my left tops were active. Even all 4 activated did not help. I even have all ceiling speakers aimed at the opposite side, for energy trading.
This can probably be a result of my tops beeing mounted to wide, outside spec(for 4 Auro VOG's anyway), but i did not want to move any ceiling speakers AGAIN.

However, i did find a happy compromise.
By using my exisiting correct Top Surround in combination with only my Atmos Top Rears, i got the best from both parts:
Auro Top Surround centered the soundfield from above, and stopped it from coming from my left speaker.
Atmos Top Rears as Top Surround widened the soundfield and moved it slightly forward, decoupled it from the speakers, so to speak.

So using 3 ! speakers as Top Surround gave the best result, without moving any speakers.

I will used this setup for now, and test it some more as i get some more time.

Here is a pic showing the sofa, TF(barely in right upper corner), TR, VOG, RH(on wall), and SurrBack. Also SH(Auro) in the rear corner on ceiling.

Sorry for the dark pic :(

 

Attachments

#111 ·
From first post:

5.1x4.1x2.4 meter

16.5Wx13.5Dx7.8H feet
That is the main cause. With your ceiling height the 4 top speakers should be max 1.35 meter apart to create a sound that from any point in your seating area is perceived as coming from right above.

In fact, for small rooms with low ceilings Wilfried van Baelen's general advice is to forget about the VOG speaker, as its too close proximity can cause distracting speaker localization. If you nevertheless want to include the top channel in a small room/ low ceiling situation, applying multiple top speakers is still the best way to go. From Auro3D's guidelines:

Still, (as you have noticed) that does not prevent sound shifting to the left or right pair of speakers if you move a bit to the side. That is because a stereo phantom image created by a mono sound already collapses to one side with a time difference approaching 0.7 ms.

For my 'Lab' I am currently designing a 'minimal headroom' system to slide speakers to any x,y position on the ceiling, including toeing and tilting facilities. It is still drawing table, and have yet to discuss the concept with a company specialized in steel constructions. These things take time... :serious:
Yes, i agree. I need to make a temporary way to move the top speakers to test this further, and i am looking into it ;)

But the 'compromise' i found is ok for now, and still a upgrade from before, so it' all good.

Sound like a cool 'Lab' you're setting up. With small motors and and remote control it would be so much easier to hear differences :)
 
#113 ·
I get a lot of questions about my setup, so i tought i could make a thread explaining it a little more. And maybe some pics too.

Short version: i use more than one Atmos AVR's to expand beyond the 7.1.4/9.1.2 hardware limit on todays affordable gear.

Did a quick and dirty diagram of the setup.
Blue speakers powered by the 7200.
Red speakers powered by the 6200.
Yellow speakers powered by the 5200.



I will try to have the first post as updated about the setup as possible, and then take the details as we go.

Edit: updated Feb -17:

My HT is in the right half of my living room, and the room dimensions are:

5.1x4.1x2.4 meter

16.5Wx13.5Dx7.8H feet

Or about 3000 cubic feet (+ the other half).

Gear.
Panasonic DMP-UB900 UHD player
HD FURY Integral
Oppo BDP-103 BD player
Darbee Darblet
Canal Digital HD PVR satellite-box
Apple TV3
PS3 (fat)
XBOX360
Denon AVR-X7200WA
Denon AVR-X6200W
Denon AVR-X5200W
Yamaha RX-V3067
Inuke NU6000DSP
JVC DLA X500R
Dreamscreen V2 dynagrey 120" screen
Samsung UE65JU7005 UHDTV

Front=Klipsch RF-82 mk1
Wide= Dynavoice Challenger M65 V3
Center=Klipsch RC-64 mk2
Surr= Klipsch RS52
WideSur1/Sur2=Klipsch RS42
Surrback= KEF3005SE
Height speakers= 10x KEF3005SE
Nearfield mid-bass= Behringer B1200D
LFE= SVS PB12-Plus/2
ULF= PSA S3000i +4x Crowson Shadow8 motion actuators
MiniDSP 2X4 balanced

All controlled by a Logitech Harmony Ultimate with the hub+4 extenders.

So my earlier setup was a Denon 7200/5200 combo, to get 7.1.4 + Wides + 8 channels of height speakers, for a 9.1.8 setup, explained further down on page(behing the spoiler), but i recently got a 6200 to gain HDMI 2.0 and DTS:X on the second AVR. Then i discovered "Special Wides" descrided in post 67 in this thread. Since i now had 3 Atmos AVR's, this gave me the opportunity to gain both 2 set of wides, AND keep my 8 channels of heights, for a grand total of 13.1.8 in native Atmos and 9.1.8 on DTS:X.

In daily TV use, i have just the 7200 playing DSU in a 7.1.4 setup, but it has all 14 speakers connected, for a 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS:X or 10.1 Auro 3D setup.

So in native Atmos, setup is as follows:
7200 switched to 9.1.2 for fronts @ 25 degrees, "Pure Wides" @ 50 degrees, "Pure Surrounds @ 85 degrees and Surround backs @150 degrees. Playing only 9.1.0(note 1)(note5).



6200 setup as 5.1.4+Wides(note2) for Wides/Sur1 @ 70 degrees, Sur2/Rears @110 degrees and Top Front+ Top Rear. Playing Wides, Sur2, and Tops(note4).



5200 setup as 5.1.4 for Front Height and Rear Height. Playing 0.0.4
(note 1)(note 2)(note3).



So basically the 7200 plays 9.1.0, while the 5200 plays 0.0.4(heights).
And 6200 plays 5.0.4(Wide/Sur1+Sur2/Rear+Tops).



As you can see in the little channel indicators in front display, the 7200(to the left) plays SB and WIDES, the 6200(bottom right) plays wides but no SB's and the 5200 (top right) plays no wides and no SB's.
As before, they are linked together via HDMI ZONE2 daisy-chained to the next AVR.

I only need on/off and main volume changes on the 6200/5200, so one original remote(and Harmony ultimate) handles that very well.

Note 1: both the 7200 and 5200 front and rear heights pre-out goes to the main and zone2 outputs of the Yama, so i just use the remote to switch the heights currently beeing used between the 7200 and 5200. So when the 7200 is in 9.1.2 mode, i let the 5200 power the heights.

Note 2: both the 6200 and 5200 wides pre-out goes to zone3 on the Yama, so i can choose wich one powers the Wide/sur1 speakers. This way i can use Neo:X wides from the 5200 in DSU(wich do not use wides).

Note 3: in Auro 3D, the 7200 powers the full 10.1 possible. But i can copy the 5200 surrounds(in Auro mode) to the surround back speakers(silent in Auro 10.1) for Auro "12.1" This way i get more "rear fill" than with just the 7200 surrounds @85 degrees. This is done with a dual source speaker switch. I can also power the Surround Heights with the 5200 if i change amp assign to FH+SH, for Auro "14.1".

Note 4: i have a "Center Height" speaker above the screen. This is connected to the center output of the 6200, and works as a "dialog lift", and also helps pannings between the front heights.

Note 5: the 7200 powers a VOG(sub2 pre-out) used in Auro 3D. In other formats, i can matrix a VOG using PL2 in the Yama extracted from the rear heights.


After all this was connected, all 3 AVR's got a full Pro calibration. This took a while...



I got a third !?! Kef3005SE 5.1 speaker kit for this upgrade. I switched out the surround backs from Klipsch to Kef, and the rear heights from white to black Kef's.



And got rid of the bookshelfs used as Surround Heights for white Kef's.
See the Kef sub on top of the Bluray rack? I now have bass-managment on the rear heights ;)





Older setup behind spoiler, no longer used. Too complicated :(

7200 Audyssed with 7.1.4 FH+RH+wides+VOG. 14 speakers.
5200 Audyssed with 7.1.4 TF+TR+wides. 13 speakers.

In native Atmos, my 7200 is playing 7.1.4, no SB+FW.

My 5200 is playing TF+TR.
However: since the 7200 has deactivated SB's in this case, and they then are downmixed into the surrounds, I switch the surrounds and surround-backs over to the 5200, via my old AVR(Yama 3067 set up as a multisource(all three zones) active speaker switch).

So the 5200 also plays surrounds and SB's.

="TRUE" 9.1.8 ;)

When playing native DTS:X (wich is limited to 7.1.4 anyway) from the 7200, i can play wides from the 5200 in Neo:X mode(matrixed from fronts and surrounds in both cases anyway).

And then when playing native Auro 3D, the 7200 plays 10.1, and if the track is 13.1, the 5200 can fill in with surround backs.




Setup. Ok, so a little more in detail how it all is connected.

The two AVR's are simply connected with a HDMI cable from the 7200 zone2 HDMI OUT, to AV1 input on the 5200. This output is a copy of the input, untouched, unprocessed, full sound and picture.

From the 7200 the speakers are:

Front LR= 7200.

Center=7200.

Surrounds= goes trough a dual source-dual output speaker switch.
Input A is from the 7200 surround speakers
Input B is from the 5200 surround speakers
Output 1 goes to surround speakers 1 at 85 degrees
Output 2 goes to surround speakers 2 at 110 degrees
So i can choose wich surround should play, even both sets from on AVR. Or one from each. Like when i deactivate the 7200 SB's to gain the wides, i can let the 5200 play surround1 and SB's, and then let the 7200 play the surround2.

Surround back= Both 7200 and 5200 surround back pre-outs goes to Yama AVR zone2 input audio1 and audio2. So i can choose wich plays the SB's. I also have a input from 5200 surrounds here, so i can copy the surrounds to surround back, eg in Auro.

Front wides= goes trough a second dual source-dual output speaker switch.
Input A is from the 7200 front wide speakers.
Input B is from the 5200 front wide speakers.
So either the 7200 or the 5200 can power the wides.

Front height= 7200.

Rear height= 7200 pre-out goes to Yama AVR main zone input AV1
I can choose stereo(2speakers) or PL2 matrixing to the center channel, VOG(3speakers).
Rear height is also connected via a Y-connector to the Yama multi ch front input.

Top surround(Auro 3D)= 7200 sub2 pre-out goes to Yama multi ch input, center channel.

So by switching the Yama from AV1 input(Atmos/DTS:X) to multi ch input (Auro 3D) i get correct signal to rear height and top surround).

From the 5200 the speakers are:

Front LR= connected to 7200 multi ch inputs, fronts. When calibrating or playing from 5200, the 7200 is switched to multi ch.

Center= 5200 to a center height.

Surrounds= see above dual source speaker switch.

Surround back= see above Yama zone2.

Front wides= see above second dual source speaker switch.

Top fronts= 5200.

Top rears= 5200 pre-out goes to Yama AVR Zone 3.

Surround height(Auro 3D)= 5200 pre-out is also connected via a Y-connector to Yama AVR main zone multi ch input, surround channels.

So on the Yama, if i turn of zone3(top rear) and switch to multi ch, the 5200 height2 signal is directed to the surround heights(Auro 3D).

I have a lot of flexibility with this setup, but it is not advisable to leave the remote with grandma :)

Some pics of the recently redone living room.
































Just reading about your tedious setup gave me the willies and I enjoy tinkering with electronics. This was truly a labor of love for you. How's the sound? Is it cohesive?
 
#115 ·
Thanks :)
Yes, we all know that a 'normal' full 7.1.4 Atmos setup sounds awsome, and to be honest: it is enough !
But i had the opportunity and econmy to try these things out, and like to explore, so i did it.
I can play the normal 7.1.4 and then fill out with the rest and thereby compare the 'expanded' setup to the normal, instantly.
And yes it sounds cohesive, only bigger, taller, wider.

Stacking electronics components is a bit risky and detrimental to the health of your components, plus, may have a negative effect on your noise floor. FYI only. otherwise, very impressive undertaking by you.
No worries, i have that covered. I have a DIY cooling solution for all of them.
Each AVR has a digital thermostat, temp sensor and fan, so i can adjust when the fan needs to start.

Like these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC12V-50-11...mart-Sensor-/311685956088?hash=item4891ee41f8


So the temp never go above 100F/38C.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Justin Walker
#116 · (Edited)
Nalleh, I have a question: Do you think that setup is possible to recreate with Yamaha? I now have a 3067 (like your old ap - great thing, but no X or Atmos, of couse) running an 11.2 system (actually 14.4, with dual speakers on front and center, and dual subs on the two separate channels - two 15" and two 12") in my cabin. I have set up four JBL ceiling speakers ready for Atmos use with speaker boxes built into the ceiling, and I have built boxes for another two, so I can run 6 Atmos/X/whatever speakers when that becomes an option.



I like the sound of the Yamaha setup with front and rear presence, but I would like to get in on the X and Atmos stuff too. So I'm thinking about using one amp to run most of the setup and only let the final amp run the Atmos speakers and a second (and perhaps third) zone, by setting most of the speakers to "external amp". I'm assuimg that won't work with the 3067, both because of the stuff you mention earlier in the thread, about Atmos being sendt from the surrounds and presence/heigth speakers, and because I suspect the difference between the chip on the 3067 and newer models is too great, so I will have sync problems. Would you say that's correct?


If so, I can afford (just bought a house and a *load of furniture and stuff to fill it up with) one 3070, which I think I'll be able to get for around 20 000 NOK some time this winter, and one of the earlier models, maybe a 2050, or something, for about half. Two 3070 is probably just above the very seriuos "divorce lawyer look" in my wife's eyes, so that is probably not possible. :D Do you think that would work, or do I need to get two of the same generation of receivers because of the chips? I see that the 3070 har new ESS ES9026PRO DA-converter chips, so maybe that would mess up the timing too?


Hope you can give me a few pointers with the experience you've picked up since I first discussed going dual receiver with you (I think that was you) a few years ago, either here or in the Norwegian AV-Forum. :D


Oh, btw, you seem to have a Photobucket-problem.
 
#117 ·
Nalleh, I have a question: Do you think that setup is possible to recreate with Yamaha? I now have a 3067 (like your old ap - great thing, but no X or Atmos, of couse) running an 11.2 system (actually 14.4, with dual speakers on front and center, and dual subs on the two separate channels - two 15" and two 12") in my cabin. I have set up four JBL ceiling speakers ready for Atmos use with speaker boxes built into the ceiling, and I have built boxes for another two, so I can run 6 Atmos/X/whatever speakers when that becomes an option.

I like the sound of the Yamaha setup with front and rear presence, but I would like to get in on the X and Atmos stuff too. So I'm thinking about using one amp to run most of the setup and only let the final amp run the Atmos speakers and a second (and perhaps third) zone, by setting most of the speakers to "external amp". I'm assuimg that won't work with the 3067, both because of the stuff you mention earlier in the thread, about Atmos being sendt from the surrounds and presence/heigth speakers, and because I suspect the difference between the chip on the 3067 and newer models is too great, so I will have sync problems. Would you say that's correct?


If so, I can afford (just bought a house and a *load of furniture and stuff to fill it up with) one 3070, which I think I'll be able to get for around 20 000 NOK some time this winter, and one of the earlier models, maybe a 2050, or something, for about half. Two 3070 is probably just above the very seriuos "divorce lawyer look" in my wife's eyes, so that is probably not possible. :D Do you think that would work, or do I need to get two of the same generation of receivers because of the chips? I see that the 3070 har new ESS ES9026PRO DA-converter chips, so maybe that would mess up the timing too?


Hope you can give me a few pointers with the experience you've picked up since I first discussed going dual receiver with you (I think that was you) a few years ago, either here or in the Norwegian AV-Forum. :D


Oh, btw, you seem to have a Photobucket-problem.
Yes, as i have said before, mixing different AVR's is problematic, if different mfr's or Atmos/Non-Atmos, and can get lip-sync issues.

However a dual 3070 or a 3070/2050 could work, but the Yama's are limited in how they can expand, as they do not have wides. There is no point mixing presence(3067) with Atmos heights(3070), as that will just blur the sound, so in the end there is not much you can expand on, exept maybe two sets of overhead speaker: height and tops.
But since Yama's only have 9 amps, you can of course use the 3067 as a ext. amp to get 11 channels.

And yes, i have a Photobucket problem, the whole WORLD has a Photobucket problem, as they now wants $399 A YEAR!!!
That a no-go for me. I am on vacation at the moment, but will look into fixing the problem as i get back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scott Simonian
#118 · (Edited)
Thanks! I have now spent a week days researching and thinking. It seems that I actually need one of the 30x0 receivers because the 20x0 does not even have the ability to run 11.2. So maybe I should rather do this with a bit of automation (which I often do...). I can have a macro that uses relays to switch speaker wires between front/rear presence and the four Atmos ceiling speakers, and then (porbably, when I find the right command) use the TCPIP communication to send a command to the receiver that changes from using presence to using ceiling speakers when I am going to watch a movie with Amos or DTS-X Sound. That way I can use only one new receiver and just keep using the old RX-V3900 that I now use to power the presence speakers. The 3067 I'm going to use in the house I recently bought, for running three powered zones. :D


Edit: Or is there some logical flaw here that I do not see myself? I will open a thread in the receiver forum to see if I whould go 3060 or 3070, with the price difference of 6000 NOK.
 
#120 ·
Thanks :)

Yeah, tell me about it, Photobucket really ruined pretty much all of the internet. There are so many forums and threads that are without pics now, it is unbelivable.

Speaking of threads: do you have a thread about your HT? Cause that would be on my list :) I found a couple speaker build thread of yours, but that's it.
 
#124 ·
#125 ·
Lots of great material here. I am ready to jump in. I currently have a 7.4.4 set up I want to kick it up to 7.4.6 but I would not mind being able to end up with 9.4.6. Before I just start buying 4 extra speakers and a extra receiver let me make sure I am thinking right..
Right now I have a yamaha 2040 (9ch 11chprocessing) I have taken the pre out and ran it to a cheaper sony AVR to power the 10th and 11th channel. What it sounds like is if I get a nicer second receiver with atmos I can connect my preouts to the new reciever and that one will run 4 of the 6 atmos speakers?
 
#126 ·
If you want 6 heights, your best bet is ScAtmos, and use two older PLII AVR’s to extend from 4 to 6 heights.

You can’t use a native Atmos height pre-out to another Atmos AVR to get more native Atmos channels. Native Atmos can only be via HDMI.

That is not how i do it to extend. I use multiple Atmos AVR’s in parallell, and each has different speaker setups.

And Yamaha doesn’t have wides, so 7 base level speakers only.
 
#132 ·
A while a go i made a new shelf for my blurays, as the old one was to big and was also getng full.

So i got the idea for this from a old IKEA BD rack, and this is what i started with:



I took it completely apart, and built it up again as i wanted it.



This is of the «minimalistic» design and is shallower than a BD cover.



I modified some more for my surround speakers.



And after some paint, it was ready to use.



It holds over 800 BD’s and takes up no space and works great :)



And it cost like $30 and some paint and screws ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: vn800art
#133 ·
Very nice. I like the super slim style.
 
#134 ·
Slim indeed :)

The IKEA shelf i was inspired by was called «Lerberg», if anyone wanna google it.

Here is a pic of the old «Billy» bookshelf also from IKEA.




I like the new one much better ;)
 
#135 ·
A little embarassing, but i was checking out room sim in REW, and after putting in my room dimensions in meters, i tried changing to feets, and my room volume came up at ~1800 ft3! NOT 3000 as i wote in first post, LOOL. Have no idea how that conversion error got in there, but feet and inches is not my native language, so i put the blame there ;).

Fixed that error in first post.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vn800art
#136 ·
So I might have just ordered a X7200wa.... I think this winter I will get some time and start re-doing some things in my set up. I dont know if I will end up with 3 recievers but I will probably pick up a x5300/x5400 next. I was also following your DIY sub build. That turned out so nice! You have a great set up and I love the wood look on those tubes. Were you ever able to find a copy of the 2016 Atmos Demo? I think you were looking for one awhile back.
 
#137 ·
Thanks :)

Yes, the 7200wa is still one of the best AVR’s on the marked, and it supports wides ;) For the second AVR you don’t need the newest ones, but thats up to you.

Yes i found the demo disc on ebay, a cheap one from thailand, bu it works for me.
Besides i also downloaded the disc from the thread on this forum, so i am covered :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Justin Walker
#139 ·
For your Dolby 13.1.8 are those 8 Atmos channels all discrete? If so then I am confused because if I understand correctly you have to use PLII to do more than 4 overhead channels.
 
#140 · (Edited)
Technically they are discrete, the problem is neither know of each other, but there are differences between heights and tops, but this is not the same as 8 overheads with a Trinnov, for example.

However, in my testing heights give a wide eleveted circle of sound, while tops give a narrow circle above you, so together these are more distinct wide from above, if you understand.
Also the two set of overheads help plant pannings front to rear better. This is not the same as just connecting 8 speakers to 4 outputs(copying), as all 8 overheads here is correctly calibrated seperately, and Audyssey’ed.

I have never said this is the correct way to do it, i tested it and liked it, so i kept it :)

2 x PLII AVR’s is one way to get past 4 heights, this is another.
 
#141 ·
I'm waiting and hoping the new crop of receiver's in early 2018 will include 6 overheads. If not then I think something more along what you and others have done is the route I'll also take.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nalleh
#142 ·
Btw, the new subs is up and running :)

 
#143 ·
And i am starting to pile up on Inukes, so today i did a quick «rack» for two of them. Nothing fancy, used some 2x4’s i had laying around. Not the normal rack, but wanted it as slim as possible.



It took about 5 minutes to make, and put the amps out of the way, but still easy to reach.



Never mind the wires and mess, just got it finished and in place :) I will put some paint on it later on ;)

I also did the fan mod on the second amp, so wisper quiet now.
 
#144 ·
That's a great set up you have there @Nalleh! I have to admit that after going the Scatmos route and enjoying it for a few months, the bug of improving my home cinema experience bit me again and makes me think more and more going the FrankenAtmos/SWAtmos road. With just one additional receiver for now that could still do SCAtmos for 6 speakers instead of Heights plus Tops.

Apart from the setup and the calibration I was wondering how did you choose which speakers go to which place? Obviously the best speakers should be in the L/R position, but what about the second best? I see that you have Dynavoice Challenger M65 V3 as Wides and Klipsch RS42 as WideSur1 and Sur2. I do recall though from the Wide exploitation forum that the WideSur1 were also called as "Sissy" Wides (lol) because they "talk" all the time, in contrast to the pure Wides that are used every now and then. Would it make sense to have the second best loudspeaker in that position then? Or is there another speaker position e.g. Sur2 or Surround that operates so much and covers such an area that the second best speaker should be there, all space concerns aside?

The reason I ask is that I have a 7.1.6 setup based on a Marantz SR7011 and the Tannoy Revolution XT series speakers, so I have the XT6f pair for L/R, the XTC for C, I have XT minis as front and rear heights, and XT6 as rear surrounds at the moment. BW 601s are my side surrounds. For SWAtmos I plan to have the XT minis brought at the ground layer, and install Focal Domes for Heights. I am not sure though where to place the XT6 which are my second best speakers and I feel they are a bit underutilized as rear surrounds, especially since Auro3D does not use them. Any idea which position would make the most of them based on your utilization so far?
 
#145 ·
Thanks, @ioanni.

Well, the speaker priority has kind of developed as i upgraded, and i have tried to place them with the following thoughts.

First priority in my mind is LCR, and as such i have placed the biggest and best of my speaker at those positions, the Klipsch RF82 and RC64.

After that i feel the side surrounds come next, and even though the M65 are bigger floorstanders, i went with the Klipsch RS52’s, since they are the same family as my LCR’s, and the M65 «fits» better as wides, because they are floorstanders.

I earlier had one set of RS42 for my rear surrounds, but since the whole «special wides» came into play, i swapped them for KEF 3005’s, as i have the rear surround just 3 feet behind me, i felt that they would be enough.

That left me with 3 pairs of side surround: Sur/wide1, pure side surrounds, and Sur2 that i felt benefitted most from being the same, all Klipsch RS family. And all heights are the same, KEF eggs, and were bought for that purpose.

If i did it all from scratch today, i think i would have done it the same, 3 big, good speakers LCR, and then bought ALL the rest the same type, like for example SVS Prime Satellites.

So maybe SVS Prime Towers(maybe as pure wides too) and Center as LCR, Bookshelfs as all ear level surrounds, and either that, Satellites or Elevations as heights.

I think that would sound awsome :)

(I was actually THIS close to buying a few pairs of those Prime Bookshelfs a couple of weeks ago, when a store nearby had them on 50% off sale !!)
 
#146 · (Edited)
Hey Nallah-

I've checked out your build for quite some time, but never thought I'd have the desire to try something like that. My system currently sounds excellent to my ears.

However, now I'm buying a new house and moving. The basement has two bedrooms. I'm going to move the wall between them way back and have a dedicated theater room and a smaller dedicated room for accessing the rear of the equipment rack as well as housing my server and network gear.

Since I have enough speakers for 9.3.4, I'm actually considering adding another AVR for expansion since I love the way the soundstage opens up further with them engaged.

Initially it looks like the AVR-S730H is the cheapest model that will do the job as the secondary AVR.

I should be able to take one of the HDMI outputs from my X6200 to the main input of the S730 and be good to go, right?

Here's my general initial plan:





Granted, I've only done about 30 minutes worth of looking/research, but it seems fairly straightforward.

Any thoughts?

BTW- I've got all SVS Primes for my front stage and they sound most excellent. I have no doubt the bookshelves would be great as well. If I had to replace all of my speakers at this point, I'd have zero hesitation going with all SVS Primes.

Thanks!
 
Top