My 11.4.12 "Franken-Atmos" living room. - Page 32 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #931 of 967 Old 12-02-2019, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Magly View Post
This looks interesting, the way you described the feeling more smooth and effortless is pretty much exactly what i experienced with the cantilevered um18s in free air without isos.
with isos it kinda had a more sharp feeling and limited the range of motion in the lower frequencies i guess

That makes perfectly sense. And i would consider doing it your way, if i only had a BOSS cantilevered. But my VNF/BOSS combo is just to heavy to do it that way, it would fall backward, as you mentioned it being on the tipping point on yours. But the resulting function would be the same. I just use the air bags to offset the weight of the boxes

You could say our setup are similar, only you have the VNF’s and BOSS seperated, while i have them combined

I also completely agree with you that cantilevered gave much more effect in the single digits than the normal under the seat mounting.
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post #932 of 967 Old 12-07-2019, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Didn’t get any free time to test my idea this week, and don’t know if i will until next year. But no biggie

Funny story:

So a ~ month ago i found a sale on the JBL’s, in sweden. Managed to finish the order, and a week later they sent me a mail, saying that they did not have enough in stock for my order, and wouldn’t get them until januar 2020. That’s ok, i replied, since they had a good price.

Fast forward to Black Friday, and the store here in Norway where i got my first JBL’s had a 50% off sale on them, even better, so i made the order there instead, and cancelled the order from Sweden.

Got a reply from the swedish store, saying that was no problem, BUT they had actually got the shipment of JBL’s THAT DAY!

Anyway, still cancelled, easier to order from Norway

So, a couple days later i got a reply from the store in Norway, saying they did not have enough JBL’s in stock for my order, and had to wait for more !!!!

HAHAHA, karma right??

I am in no rush however, it’s winter up here, so i’ll wait. They said they will know more about delivery next week.

Oh, right... my order was for 16 JBL’s
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post #933 of 967 Old 12-07-2019, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post



HAHAHA, karma right??



I am in no rush however, it’s winter up here, so i’ll wait. They said they will know more about delivery next week.



Oh, right... my order was for 16 JBL’s

Haha that figures. You making an IB wall of subs with 16 JBL’s?! Or a BOSS mega riser?

I’m seriously debating selling all my HT toys for cheap and just starting over at the next house. Too bad you’re across the pond!
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post #934 of 967 Old 12-07-2019, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Haha that figures. You making an IB wall of subs with 16 JBL’s?! Or a BOSS mega riser?

I’m seriously debating selling all my HT toys for cheap and just starting over at the next house. Too bad you’re across the pond!
Actually nothing specific planned, LOL. But i have been on the lookout for another sale on them for probably a year now, so i just scooped up "enough" now that i finally found a sale

I got some plans to test some of them out in new FF subs, instead of my 18" i have now, maybe try some ported ones. We’ll see

Nice to have a couple of them laying around, in case i wanna build something, LOL !
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post #935 of 967 Old 12-08-2019, 02:18 PM
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LOL

I saw your pm, but I don't have enough posts to send pm's yet
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post #936 of 967 Old 12-10-2019, 12:21 PM
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So, I don't know if I have understood well; up there in the northern Europe there will be an earthquake following the installation (not altogether, as it's been said) of 16+16 + the existing 12 if I am not wrong = 44 Jbl 12inches cones!
Unbelievable!
I don't want to follow the construction of this ordeal! Will unsubscribe immediately from the thread, otherwise I'll be consulting compulsively my phone's Tapatalk to read the hundreds posts that will be originated since!
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post #937 of 967 Old 12-13-2019, 04:48 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^ LOL, no i cancelled the swedish order, so "just" 16 new ones


Ok, so about the idea i had.....

This is based on two things.
1. From my early tests, i ended up with my BK’s under the front of my seats. This combined with the MA’s under the rear of the seats gave a good balance and let both devices work optimally. Alone, the BK’s was not as "feet only" feel as i feared, and when i built my TR Sleds, this was even less noticable. Why? Because on my old plattform, the hinge point the BK’s worked against was at the rear of the seat. But now with the new sleds, the hingepoint is ~2ft BEHIND the seat, since the sleds continue past the seats. This makes the movement from the BK’s more Z-axis, which is good.
2. On the TR sleds, the MA’s under the rear of seat has to work against a "soft ground" = the iso’s, so i question if they are optimal i this setup.

So here is the idea. Since the BK’s work so well under the front, what if i put the MA’s under the front, and move the BK’s under the rear of seat(cantilever)?
If i keep only the rearmost iso’s at the rear of TR Sleds, no iso’s under the middle of sled, where the BK’s would be, and have the MA’s under the front, this would make the MA’s work against a rigid ground, the BK’s would have some "flex" with no iso’s underneath, and the VNF’s would have the iso’s or air susp(as it is today) to work against.

So to test this, i moved the MA’s to the front, under the board that the BK’s are mounted on.

Like so.



This was just half the idea, and only the single layer MA’s, but it was easy to do. This made the BK’s kind of "inert" as they did not contribute to the total TR. But that was expected.



Some Viberry. Here is a sweep with just the VNF’s. New test is called "6Ma fr" on graph. Improved curve.



Here is the MA’s only. Nice improvement considering going from 2 layer to one.



And here is some content. New idea is worse, but this is practically without the BK’s, they added nothing here, and again: single layer MA’s.



Here is Z-axis. A bit surprised here but not a big deal.



And Y-axis also took a hit.




I expected the result to be worse, so no surprise there, but i wanted to know how it felt, and in that regard i would call it a success.

Doing the full test, with stacked MA’s and fully working BK’s will require a bigger reconfig of the sleds, with moving several of the boards, and i am going on a christmas holiday trip next week, so it will have to wait until next year
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post #938 of 967 Old 12-13-2019, 09:29 AM
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Oh man, have to wait until next year!!!?? …good thing time flies and next year might just be right around the corner

Seriously, right on, man!! Sounds like a fantastic plan to me and makes perfect sense

Always thinking and pushin’ the boundaries my friend!! Great stuff as usual, keep it coming!!!
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post #939 of 967 Old 12-13-2019, 01:01 PM
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Nalleh, you're killing it with all the different modifications! Don't ever stop!
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post #940 of 967 Old 12-13-2019, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, i think i must have a very high count of the "what if" gene, because i am always thinking : what if i try this, what if i test that, etc
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post #941 of 967 Old 12-13-2019, 03:30 PM
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^^^ LOL yeah, I think I got a good bit of that gene too. I’ve got about 5 more things I’d like to try for TR in my current setup, but just haven’t been able to make myself start in again. I almost tried a couple of them last week, but then at the last minute, I thought to myself, am I freaking crazy, what more am I after here LOL?? …and opted not to touch anything and just went and enjoyed the heck out of some demoing and some more movies Then there is that inner part of me that pushed me this far that makes me sometimes think “what if” like you and that I may not ever be quite ABSOLUTELY FULLY AND COMPLETELY 110% SATISFIED (although I LOVE what I have going now more than I ever have before) until I get so much TR and slam that it causes me to blackout or something hahahaha. The slam and TR in my system isn’t quite to that point yet (at the normal to lower levels I listen at anyway), so I KNOW there is still room for improvement LOL

I know things can always be better no matter how good it is, but like I was saying earlier, I think I’ve finally got my system’s TR and Bass closer to where I want it to be than ever before. So, I’ll just wait and see when I might start feeling the urge again to experiment and/or add more. Even though we’ve kinda gone about getting what we want from our TR in a bit different way recently, it’s still very inspiring to me to see what you’re up to and experimenting with next. I have already picked up an extra amp for experimenting and will probably try to pick up some extra BKs or something along the way too just because . We’ll see what happens. For now, though, I think I’m just gonna enjoy as is for a while longer with all the new BF 4K movie purchases and going through all the MCU’s in order. Heck, I think I’ve spent the last 3 days or so just watching and demoing Avatar 3D who knows how many hours trying to soak up all it has to offer. I just can seem to get enough of it, as you probably well know from all my recent posts about it in the BEQ thread!!! LOL

Oh yeah, there's the DIY big scope screen too that I’ve almost started on a few times as well. LOTS of things to build and mess with still when I get bored or that craving for ‘more’ becomes too strong again I guess hahahha

So I'm gonna try to just enjoy what I've got going on now and let my "experimental/what if/need for "more" side of me" be lived vicariously through you for now
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post #942 of 967 Old 12-13-2019, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^ Yup, you got it too, LOL.
That is what makes this hobby so fun: a little change here, a new idea here Sometimes it doesn’t work, but sometimes a simple thing can make it better. And i love when that happens.
Hey, if we didn’t have that gene, we would still just have our MA’s and be happy as a clam, HAHA, not knowing any better

And if you have just one TR device, it is easier optimizing it, just look at what the different iso’s did for improvements.
But if you Have several TR devices, there is a lot more combos that CAN work. Or NOT, LOL. And it is that nagging feeling: AM I TAPPING INTO ALL I CAN with the combo i got ???? THAT is what drives me, and i LOVE it, when some idea or some tuning makes it better. That like finding money !

But since i am going on a trip next week(monday in fact), and because of your raving reviews of Avatar, i am going to put my rig back to normal today and enjoy that movie, since i can’t wait until next year to experience it, LOL. So thanks for that, HAHA.

It’s not like i wasn’t happy with my setup as it was , LOL.
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post #943 of 967 Old 12-14-2019, 01:16 PM
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^^^ Very well put on all that, I couldn’t have said it better and agree 100%!!!

Well, you’ll be a week ahead of me on your trip then, we leave the following Monday LOL

Have a great trip and Happy Holidays my good friend!!!

Oh yeah, cool on Avatar too!! Our rigs are similar enough that I know you’ll get the same kind of experience I got from it, maybe even better actually Between the huge screen 3D effects in the Navi world (best I’ve seen hands down I think), BEQ and up-mixed 5.1 (carp was right on the money when he posted that in the BEQ thread about it), plus the love I’ve always had for that movie (I know not all folks feel the same way though), it’s one of the, if not THE best overall experiences I’ve had in my HT. As our systems continue to get better and better, it just seems to bring all that I mentioned out more and more for an even better amazing experience, which is way cool and makes the effort we put into our systems even more worth it

It really just blows me away that to take an older movie that I've probably seen way too many times over the years, to be able to play it multiple times over this last week and I still just can't seem to get enough of it LOL . Something must be wrong with me!! Hahahaha
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post #944 of 967 Old 12-14-2019, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^ Yeah, i ran out of time, but managed to watch half of Avatar today, and i agree : WWWOOOOOOW, WHAT A EXPERIENCE!!!
Like you i can NOT believe that nowadays with UHD, Atmos, HDR and what not, that a 10 year old movie !!!, JUST a bluray, JUST a 5.1 sound can BLOW MY MIND!!! AGAIN!!
This is unbelievable!! The picture is mindboggling clear and vivid, the upmixing is WAY better than most of the Atmos/DTS:X native tracks, and the 3D!!!! This IS THE 3D BENCHMARK !! And the crazy part ? Even today, 10 years later, IT STILL IS!! HOLY MOLY this is a cool A/V Experience

When they take the first helicopter ride and over the waterfall: WOOW the wobbles, IT WAS TOTALLY CRAZZZZYY!! So cool

I watched this scene, and several other again and again, LOL, my jaw was on the floor! And when those flying seeds landed all over him, YIKES the 3D was OFF THE SCREEN !!

Will watch the rest tomorrow, and probably 6 Underground too, that looks cool

Happy holidays back at you, my good buddy
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post #945 of 967 Old 12-14-2019, 02:34 PM
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^^^^ YESSSSSSSSS!!!!! I KNEW YOU WOULD BE BLOWN AWAY BY IT TOO!!!!

Yeah man, all that you mention, just INSANE huh!!!!!!!!!!

It really is still the 3D benchmark, and that 5.1 upmixed sound, good god, yes way better than most native Atmos/DTS:X tracks!!!

Yeah, when they go over that waterfall in the helicopter ride, WOBBLE CITY huh!!!

Also, yeah, the seeds and so many other places …. just mind-blowing 3D!!!! It just doesn’t get more real and mind blowing that that IMO & E. That whole area actually, from where he is sharpening that stick in the forest and Neytiri is up in the tree with her bow up to that point …just OMG WOW x10!!!!!

Only halfway through …just wait, there is some more insane 3D and TR stuff coming too LOL. The area where they take Grace to the big tree and all the Navi are sitting together and swaying in circles, the TR will nearly knock you out of your seat and just feels SOOOOO COOL!!!! It’ll rock your world LOL

Too many mind-blowing scenes to cover, (I could do this all day LOL), but this has to be HT REALISM AT ITS BEST!!!!!!! This is the kind of experiences us diehard TR and HT junkies live for right here, at least IMO it is
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post #946 of 967 Old 12-14-2019, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Yup, i agree, it is truly insane, in all aspect. And now i can’ wait see the rest

Thing is, normally when watching a 3D movie, the effect is cool at the beginning, and then it wears off!!!

Avatar though just keeps getting better, and the WOWs just keeps coming !!

There are other really good 3D movies out there, but i don’t know of ONE, that does that

And yes, there is constantly either 3D effects, surround/height effects or LFE/ULF effects that just keeps your jaw to the floor !!

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE IT !!
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post #947 of 967 Old 12-20-2019, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ryanmh1 View Post
FWIW, I have actually used the SLAPS, and put an extensive write up of my project over at Data-Bass. I haven't cross posted it here yet, but will when I have some time.

Ryan,
Have you posted that page of technical analysis that got wiped when you bumped the backspace key somewhere? I found your initial post on DB but did not find it anywhere. I'm sure a lot of people would like to see that since there's really not a lot of info on these SLAPS out there. Hope you have time to re-type all of that.



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Originally Posted by ryanmh1 View Post
In short, for people trying to build stuff with cheap JBLs, there is no point to using a SLAPS. It costs two or three times what the drivers do. Just add more drivers. On the other hand, the SLAPS make a lot of sense when you want an unreasonably low tune in a small box using an expensive driver where you can't just buy 4 more for $120.

I'm one of those people and I'm calling this project "Bass 1221" or "ULF 1221", I haven't decided yet :-) so I have 21 of these JBLs at home and 6 M12 SLAPS, I'm stacking them up as a Christmas tree and will post a pic here soon! 21 stacked makes a perfect tree, so I bought another one, LOL! We were all impressed by the results posted by Nalleh and Michael when utilizing these and with less JBLs. But your statement above seems to contradict what we've seen but it seems that you've spent a lot of time with these SLAPS so I'm sure you know what you're talking about and have that page of tech analysis to back your statements up. For me, like a lot of people, I was considering a magic cube of (3x3x3) 9 JBLs for a 4 Ohm load now SLAPS came along (courtesy of Nalleh) and the 2 JBLs +1 SLAPS was born. So I'd really like to see your data and how you obtained it so I can start building my boxes! Thx.
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post #948 of 967 Old 12-20-2019, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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^^ He is not very active around here, but here is his thread on DB with info about SLAPS:

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/topic/7...in-a-tiny-box/

He was not contradicting that the SLAPS work great in a sub box for FR, it is the TR part he was skeptical about.

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post #949 of 967 Old 12-20-2019, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
^^ He is not very active around here, but here is his thread on DB with info about SLAPS:

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/topic/7...in-a-tiny-box/

He was not contradicting that the SLAPS work great in a sub box for FR, it is the TR part he was skeptical about.

Yup found that post on data-bass last night. That's where he referred to the backspace fumble that erased a page of tech. analysis. I like what he said about the tuning of the PR also goes down as you push it! On his post here, I got the part about the non-linearity of the SLAPS hence unsuitable for TR.


But quoted below is where he explains why he thinks(his data) that its better to just get/use more JBLs. Did I get what he was trying to say wrong :-( ?



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Originally Posted by ryanmh1 View Post
To hit 10Hz, you would need a pair of JBL drivers with a pair of 10" SLAPS weighted to 1200g. This would give you 90dB of output at 2M groundplane. It's also mostly a waste of your time. 4 JBLs sealed will get you almost the same output, in the same space, with more output below tune, at less cost. I could play with the models more, but it didn't look very favorable to me. Low tuned passive radiator systems demand about 30mm of suspension travel from the active driver to avoid bottoming it.
In short, for people trying to build stuff with cheap JBLs, there is no point to using a SLAPS. It costs two or three times what the drivers do. Just add more drivers. On the other hand, the SLAPS make a lot of sense when you want an unreasonably low tune in a small box using an expensive driver where you can't just buy 4 more for $120.

BTW, what's new on your end? Now I understand why DD has that hashtag! LOL.
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post #950 of 967 Old 12-21-2019, 03:20 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^ Got it

Well, i posted this in another thread, i guess i can put it here too:

"Let’s take it from the top.
In Winisd the "ported" option looks good for sound/FR and that is what Winisd is for (Not TR).
Both ported and PR have similar pros and cons, they flatten the FR curve, less peaky up top and more effective around tune. And they drop of faster below tune than a sealed would, because of phase shift between the driver and port/PR.

So used as VNF, a ported and PR behave similar, and the fact that the active driver moves the least around tune is irrelevant, because that is exactly where the port/PR is most effective, adding to sound/FR/SPL.

Here is a close mic measurement of the JBL/PR in REW, one on the JBL driver(black) and the other on the PR(yellow). This looks like it should for a ported/PR. This is NO EQ, so a flat signal(sealed box for comparison is red).



And here is how it looks for FR after EQ. This is from the MLP with JBL/PR placed VNF. I had to use less EQ on the JBL/PR because of the things mentioned above, and had no problem integrating the JBL/PR (blue)with the rest of my subs, as can be seen in the black curve, extension well below 10hz.



That was for FR/ sound.
Let’s move to the TR "sideeffect bonus" of this config.

So, putting the PR option into Winidsp it seems to work not as good for TR.
Here is exursion on the JBL, sealed vs PR.
This is typical behavior when using ported/PR. Clearly not as linear as sealed.

(Sorry for the weak blue colour)



And here is exursion on the SLAPS. Very peaky around tune, and not exactly linear.



And here is SPL on sealed vs PR.
PR looks flatter, but drops faster below tune.



So in the Viberry thread i showed what happened when i put the sensor ON the cone of the different subs. These aren’t technically mm excursion, but it meaures how much the cone moves, so it is a good indicator of it.
These are all with NO EQ, so a flat signal.
Just for reference, here is one SI18Mk1 sealed box. Note dip down low! This dip has shown up on everybodys Viberry AND VS measurements to date, so don’t read to much into it.



Here is the JBL cone. Same dip down low, and as expected a dip around tune.



And here is where things differ from Winisd, excursion of the PR. It is not NEARLY as peaky as on paper, however same dip down low, as expected, but for TR i would call this a pretty ok rising house curve.
And guess what: this also mimics how it feels



And here are a couple of Viberry measurement playing real content, San Andreas:



The Meg:



I think it looks pretty ok, and if the dB scale to the left is any indication, i would say both intensity and extension works pretty good

To say i am happy with it is a understatement

Using a PR BOSS solution makes the FR and TR kind of "locked" together. But you still have DSP control. Only when adjusting EQ for FR it also affects TR and visa versa. This also include delay/phase.

So there is three ways of doing this.

1. EQ for FR and let TR be whatever the result is.
2. EQ for TR and let FR be whatever the result is.
3. Make a compromise of both.
Depending on what other TR devices, VNF, NF and FF’s you have, these could all be viable options.

I went for option 1 and the resulting TR was great, so no further action was required

And IF you feel the FR is great, but TR is a bit much (what blasphemy!!), you could try isolators between VNF box and plattform, to dampen TR while keeping FR.
OR, if TR is great, but VNF are a bit much(even more blasphemy!! ), you could move the VNF’s a couple inches further away from your back. "

We are dealing with the basic differences between sealed and ported/PR here. If you have a set enclosure volume to go on and unlimited amp & drivers: Go sealed and stuff it with as many drivers and as much amp as you can.
Are you limited in the amp or driver area, use Ported/PR to get most out of each watt/driver.

Also he is calculating one SLAPS pr JBL, which is way overkill! This is where the 2JBL’s pr SLAPS is genious, as suddenly the SLAPS are cheaper pr JBL than the JBL’s themself, i.e 2JBL1SLAPS is cheaper than 4JBL’s sealed, and requires less amp. And even another bonus is you don’t have to change the box! Just use the sealed one you have, as i did
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post #951 of 967 Old 12-22-2019, 10:32 AM
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"Both ported and PR have similar pros and cons, they flatten the FR curve, less peaky up top and more effective around tune. "


I've seen the similar increase in response in the graphs posted between 20-40Hz with SLAPS in use. The one and only thing that I don't like about the PR is that deep notch right below the tuning freq.


"And they drop of faster below tune than a sealed would, because of phase shift between the driver and port/PR."


As far as I remember as you approach port/PR tuning freq, the port/PR is already at 90 deg. out of phase but this is still an additive effect and by the time you reach about a third octave down its completely out of phase.


"Also he is calculating one SLAPS pr JBL, which is way overkill! This is where the 2JBL’s pr SLAPS is genious, as suddenly the SLAPS are cheaper pr JBL than the JBL’s themself, i.e 2JBL1SLAPS is cheaper than 4JBL’s sealed, and requires less amp."


All you had to say what this! ^^^ Kudos to you Nalleh! But you are always very helpful and go the extra mile to help people out! More power to you Man!!! That's why I was asking Ryan for more info, I wasn't getting why his results were contradictory to yours and Michael's. Thanks for all the additional info, I'll digest all this later. Just been really busy, expecting family for the Holidays tomorrow.



"And even another bonus is you don’t have to change the box! Just use the sealed one you have, as i did"


This is the beauty of SLAPS that you don't have the extra volume needed compared to a ported alignment specially w/low tuning. Last ported sub I built tuned to 15hz had dual 4" J-shaped ports and that took up a lot of space. No port compression though :-).


I think I'm building my boxes as I want them to be as small as possible without sacrificing too much SPL and low end FR.


From your modelling, what's the optimum size for a 2JBL+1SLAPS?


Thx again!
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post #952 of 967 Old 12-23-2019, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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^ Well, i have tried two SLAPS configs, both in the same box i built from the start, which is 4cu ft.

Nr one was the 2JBL1 SLAPS setup, i actually tried that one in both frontfiring and later downfiring. This gave each JBL 2cu ft, and a flatter curve. This replaced the 12x sealed JBL, and was actually plenty. Maybe not as much max SPL, but not a problem the way i set them up. It actually provided more TR than the sealed version.

The reason i had just the two boxes each with 2JBL1SLAPS was i used the remaining 8 of the JBL for BOSS duty. And that worked great, but i just felt the JBL’s pumping free air was a waste of good SPL, which lead to :

Nr two is the version today: 4JBL2 SLAPS per box. I simply put all JBL’s back in the three boxes and put two SLAPS downfiring in each. This gives each JBL 1cu ft, but the sheer number of drivers outweight any downsides to smaller boxes. Instead of a total of 4 JBL’s and 2 SLAPS, I now have 12 JBL’s and 6 SLAPS. And of course all the SLAPS versions was placed ON the TR Sleds for maximum effect from the TR the SLAPS was making. This way i get the max nearfield effect from all 12 JBL’s acting more like a planar wave than omnidirectional, great SPL addition to the whole LFE track, and amazing TR from the DF SLAPS. Win-win.

If you plan to make the most out of any subwwoofer and built from scratch, use Winisd to optimize the enclosure. Aron had some great contributions earlier in this thread with the SLAPS, but i ended up just using the boxes i already had. Which probably leaves a bit on the table, as they are small.

Take a look:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/29-wh...l#post57849104

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post #953 of 967 Old 01-03-2020, 11:17 PM
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Nalleh,
So I looked at the link above and read through it and led me to other pages, I haven't read this much for such a long time! I also read through Aron's PR analysis on this thread.
So your current set-up is with the 4JBLs +2SLAPS, do you happen to have a comparison of the measurements between this and just the 4JBLs sealed? Like not even touching your MV or EQ comparison? This way we can see how much less EQ and power is needed with SLAPS. I know you took measurements with just the 2JBLs + 1SLAPS but obviously that's not apples to apples due to the load/power difference like you said.


Also, I don't recall anyone on those posts mention the effect of wiring in series or parallel when drivers are sharing a box. As far as I know you're supposed to wire drivers sharing an enclosure in parallel to minimize the effect of back EMF produced by one driver to another which can lead to identical drivers performing differently, I don't think the effect is really that much but you're trying to maximize your system so I thought I'd mention it.



Thx!
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post #954 of 967 Old 01-04-2020, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
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^^ I am still on vacation, but i am not sure i have measurements directly comparing both their native response pre-EQ. I can look into it when i get some time
However, IIRC i used ~10dB of Low Shelf on the sealed version to get it flat, while i now just use a single 5dB LS to get the same.

About the EMF thing, i have no idea In my case i have no choise because of the amp i use. I can only go down to 4ohm, so with 4 JBL’s per channel, it has to be series-parallel for a 4 ohm load. With 6 JBL’s per channels, as i use now, it has to be series-parallel again for a 6 ohm total load.

I am not aware of anyone thinking about anything else than amp load when wiring up several drivers, even in same box.

But again i have to "warn" about designing a sub with SLAPS: my use is very special and exploits something normally regarded as a con about sub properties, and my "design" should not be used as a template for a "normal" sub.
I did not do any "designing" as such, i just used the boxes i had (not optimal) and i "abuse" them for TR.
The benefits of a SLAPS sub should be much greater if designed correct from the start. Like Ryan’s example.

If i were to try to build farfield subs with SLAPS, i would use bigger boxes, probably at least 2 cu ft pr driver, and dual opposed SLAPS, to cancel box vibrations.
For example, a 8 cu ft sub tower with 4 JBL’s on the front baffle and one SLAPS on each side. Or a lower "fatter" box with 2 JBL’s front baffle, 2 on the rear and SLAPS on each side. Very inert box

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post #955 of 967 Old 01-15-2020, 03:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Posted this in the TR thread, but i guess i can put it here too, a little TR for you

"Not even sure i can top those last videos, because they were "unsane" but it looked like fun, so i had to " wet my couch" too, LOL.
MV at -20dB, which is my normal movie level. So i got some left in the tank, but approaching ludicrous levels, HAHA.

13 Hours, 1st wave clip:


EOT intro clip. Harmony remote kind of airborn and look at the Mac at the end, LOL.


(Note my little comment at the end of the clip! Didn’t know i said that until i watched the video after, LOL)"
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Sooo tactile!

if you were redesigning you’re VNFs, would you keep them pretty much as is or increase cubic volume? I ask because I read where you said you were already reaching the limits with minimal power. I figure a bigger box will cause the boxes to reach excursion even easier unless that applies more so to sealed.
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post #957 of 967 Old 01-15-2020, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
Sooo tactile!

if you were redesigning you’re VNFs, would you keep them pretty much as is or increase cubic volume? I ask because I read where you said you were already reaching the limits with minimal power. I figure a bigger box will cause the boxes to reach excursion even easier unless that applies more so to sealed.
Yeah, these boxes have been trough some modifications since i first built them. So today i would build them differently. First of all the angle to the seat back isn’t optimal, more slant to fit even closer to the seat. And second bigger boxes. There is a lot more to consider in this special case of VNF/BOSS, so i would exploit more of the space i have available behind the couch. 2cu ft pr driver would give them more low end. Midbass is in surplus no matter what, with these many drivers

The fact that you need less watt the bigger the box, is just because they are more efficient With small boxes you just have to "power through " .

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post #958 of 967 Old 01-15-2020, 03:30 PM
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I ordered 2 more SLAPs today so total of 6. I already had enough JBLs. Regarding slant, do you recline almost all the way back when you’re sitting? For cubic feet I’ll be at least 6 cubic feet total maybe a little more.
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post #959 of 967 Old 01-15-2020, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
I ordered 2 more SLAPs today so total of 6. I already had enough JBLs. Regarding slant, do you recline almost all the way back when you’re sitting? For cubic feet I’ll be at least 6 cubic feet total maybe a little more.
You're not allowed anymore. We just got what you have dialed in! Anyway I think your wife is onto the tricks now and isn't going to fall for it again.

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post #960 of 967 Old 01-15-2020, 04:22 PM
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LOL she actually will be happy to see the pile of JBL boxes disappear from the garage.
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