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post #991 of 1020 Old 02-06-2020, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
More work. In testing yesterday, i heard a lot o air leaks from the drivers pumping. I don’t have carpet floors, i have hardwood.
Also if you noticed on last pics i turned the 2x4 around so it was 4" tall instead of earlier laying flat= 2". This was so the JBL’s under the seat would clear the seat frame.

This of course makes the sleds 2"+ taller. And i don’t like that, so i found a way to continue using them flat, or 2".
I rotated the JBL’s under the seat, so they clear the frame and fits up IN the frame.

And i will also use the same fabric, or a carpet under the sled, to seal against the floor.

A little more testing earlier today, these tings are totally iiiinsane!! The headroom is simply off the charts, 4 hz is like riding a horse, LOL!! That test was before i made todays mods, so there was a lot of blowing noises, LOL, as air escaped everywhere under and over the tubes, but there wasn’t any signs of the JBL’s giving in.

Funny note. At first i thought it felt very gimmicky and strange. Since i now have the JBL’s in correct downfiring position, the concensous is to have them in phase, so i did. But then i tried them inverted, and VOILA, there it was, it was like night and day, LOL. Also, they produce a lot more SPL than i thought they would, being so tiny "boxes«, LOL.
Nice! When you say it's insane was that with it having the air leaks or after you added the carpet? I was a little unclear on that point. Also, running into any issues with the 2x4 on top of the ply? I'm thinking of doing mine that way when I rebuild. I'm hoping to be able to get a bunch done on mine this weekend.

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post #992 of 1020 Old 02-06-2020, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
More work. In testing yesterday, i heard a lot o air leaks from the drivers pumping. I don’t have carpet floors, i have hardwood.
Also if you noticed on last pics i turned the 2x4 around so it was 4" tall instead of earlier laying flat= 2". This was so the JBL’s under the seat would clear the seat frame.

This of course makes the sleds 2"+ taller. And i don’t like that, so i found a way to continue using them flat, or 2".
I rotated the JBL’s under the seat, so they clear the frame and fits up IN the frame.



And to seal the tubes better, i used speaker box fabric under the sled.



This also sloved the squeeking the tubes made against the wood sled.



And tubes back on. Not as symmetric, but purely cosmetic, and doesn’t show under the sleds anyway




And i will also use the same fabric, or a carpet under the sled, to seal against the floor.

A little more testing earlier today, these tings are totally iiiinsane!! The headroom is simply off the charts, 4 hz is like riding a horse, LOL!! That test was before i made todays mods, so there was a lot of blowing noises, LOL, as air escaped everywhere under and over the tubes, but there wasn’t any signs of the JBL’s giving in.

Funny note. At first i thought it felt very gimmicky and strange. Since i now have the JBL’s in correct downfiring position, the concensous is to have them in phase, so i did. But then i tried them inverted, and VOILA, there it was, it was like night and day, LOL. Also, they produce a lot more SPL than i thought they would, being so tiny "boxes«, LOL.
I have also recently switched my BOSS to inverted and have been happy with the results so far.
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post #993 of 1020 Old 02-06-2020, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
Nice! When you say it's insane was that with it having the air leaks or after you added the carpet? I was a little unclear on that point. Also, running into any issues with the 2x4 on top of the ply? I'm thinking of doing mine that way when I rebuild. I'm hoping to be able to get a bunch done on mine this weekend.
Yes, that was before i mounted the carpet, it is much quiter and better now. The carpet also helped where it was very thight between tubes and drivers, and eliminated any squeeks. Still no carpet between the tubes and floor, will do that tomorrow.

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I have also recently switched my BOSS to inverted and have been happy with the results so far.
Indeed. I think hoverboss converts the movement again, to in sync with driver movements.
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post #994 of 1020 Old 02-06-2020, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Since i now have the JBL’s in correct downfiring position, the concensous is to have them in phase, so i did. But then i tried them inverted, and VOILA, there it was, it was like night and day, LOL. Also, they produce a lot more SPL than i thought they would, being so tiny "boxes«, LOL.
That's what I noticed aswell after adding the BK's they would cancel out the hoverboss but worked well with the regular boss, so I tried a lot of delay and it kinda worked but the delay was very noticable with music so I removed the delay and inverted the hoverboss and VOILA LOL
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post #995 of 1020 Old 02-06-2020, 02:11 PM
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Yes, an update!!! . Sounds promising and great so far!!! Yeah, I too was surprised how much SPL those JBLs in the tiny sealed enclosures produce.
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post #996 of 1020 Old 02-06-2020, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Couple more pics.

By rotating the two forward ones under the seat, i could make them fit within the square seat frame without increasing height. I can’t believe i didn’t think of this earlier, LOL.



It isn’t a world of space, but enough to recline and move around



And the cantilever ones. Actually struggling with too little weight on these as air presssure from the drivers escapes under the tubes, LOL.




A new day tomorrow
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post #997 of 1020 Old 02-06-2020, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
Also, running into any issues with the 2x4 on top of the ply? I'm thinking of doing mine that way when I rebuild. I'm hoping to be able to get a bunch done on mine this weekend.
Forgot to answer this one.

Not sure what issues you are thinking about, but in my case: no
It is a genious material to use as a frame, and in my case i needed more height than a sheet of plywood or mdf would give. Since i expected a lot of experimenting, nothing is glued on yet, screws only, so i was a bit worried about movement and squeeks from the screw mounting, but solid as a rock so far And of course it is very strong and stable, and good material to screw into.

And i find it a bit easier to build a frame with sheets/board where needed, rather than multiple full sheets to get the right height/thickness.

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post #998 of 1020 Old 02-06-2020, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Forgot to answer this one.

Not sure what issues you are thinking about, but in my case: no
It is a genious material to use as a frame, and in my case i needed more height than a sheet of plywood or mdf would give. Since i expected a lot of experimenting, nothing is glued on yet, screws only, so i was a bit worried about movement and squeeks from the screw mounting, but solid as a rock so far And of course it is very strong and stable, and good material to screw into.

And i find it a bit easier to build a frame with sheets/board where needed, rather than multiple full sheets to get the right height/thickness.
Ah, sorry, thought you'd know what I meant. In my rebuild I've been thinking of putting the frame on top of the plywood like what you did instead of under it to make tube placement easier. I'm running into sizing issues the other way. I wasn't sure though if it would give different feel or be worse structurally since the ply will be getting pulled down from the frame instead of being pushed into it.

I think I'm going to be able to get the rest of my cuts done tomorrow and then be able to start playing with it some over the weekend.

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post #999 of 1020 Old 02-06-2020, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post

And the cantilever ones. Actually struggling with too little weight on these as air presssure from the drivers escapes under the tubes, LOL.

Instead of the drivers in the cantilevered part like that are you going to try putting the VNFs with the slaps on it?

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post #1000 of 1020 Old 02-07-2020, 01:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
Ah, sorry, thought you'd know what I meant. In my rebuild I've been thinking of putting the frame on top of the plywood like what you did instead of under it to make tube placement easier. I'm running into sizing issues the other way. I wasn't sure though if it would give different feel or be worse structurally since the ply will be getting pulled down from the frame instead of being pushed into it.

I think I'm going to be able to get the rest of my cuts done tomorrow and then be able to start playing with it some over the weekend.
Ahh, ok. No, i don’t see any issues doing the frame above the plywood. As you say it simplifies getting the tubes around the drivers, and frame will be hidden under the couch anyway. Go for it, keep it simple

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Instead of the drivers in the cantilevered part like that are you going to try putting the VNFs with the slaps on it?
Yes, i am thinking i can remove the two rearmost JBL’s in the slead, and mount the VNF with DF SLAPS on the slead over those two holes, sealing the opening from above on the sled. The increased stroke of the SLAPS COULD be a advantage, but since it also helps produce SPL(it is the port of the box after all, and i will kind of be plugging it) i might loose SPL doing it that way. But it should be easy to test it. Aside from doing REW in both scenarios i was also thinking of taping the Viberry sensor to the JBL and SLAPS cones in both too, to monitor excurison.

If it doesn’t work, i’ll just use the hoverboss as is, and mount the VNF on top

Then i’ll be back to 4 TR devices, LOL.

Excess is just enough, HAHA.
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post #1001 of 1020 Old 02-07-2020, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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LOL, HoverBoss is just ridicolous !! Holy Testicle Tuesday, the excursion you get from these are second to none, MA’s can’t match this, LOL!! And the single digits? Oh yeah man, All the way down to 3.5hz is like driving a tractor in high gear right through the forest road, HAHAHA.
UNBELIVABLE !!

I do however have 6x JBL per seat, so there is some firepower, two of them per NU6K channel.

Couple videos. This is at MV -30dB, hoverboss only, and they are actually turned down in the minidsp. 10hz. PS: only one seat/sled is done, so it jiggles a bit sideways too, LOL.


4hz. Listen how it blows at the microfone at the end there, LOL, the sled is to light with no load

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post #1002 of 1020 Old 02-07-2020, 08:28 AM
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Nice

Are you going to mount the BK's in the back of the seat like I have them? seems like there is not enough room in the front where you had them under the seats
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post #1003 of 1020 Old 02-07-2020, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice

Are you going to mount the BK's in the back of the seat like I have them? seems like there is not enough room in the front where you had them under the seats
Yes, i am going to mimic what you, @m0j0 and @SBuger did, and direct mount them on the rear of seat
I just didn’t have time to do that too now.
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post #1004 of 1020 Old 02-07-2020, 09:27 AM
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@Nalleh - WICKED!!! So how much air pressure you got in your tubes now?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Yes, i am thinking i can remove the two rearmost JBL’s in the slead, and mount the VNF with DF SLAPS on the slead over those two holes, sealing the opening from above on the sled. The increased stroke of the SLAPS COULD be a advantage, but since it also helps produce SPL(it is the port of the box after all, and i will kind of be plugging it) i might loose SPL doing it that way. But it should be easy to test it. Aside from doing REW in both scenarios i was also thinking of taping the Viberry sensor to the JBL and SLAPS cones in both too, to monitor excurison.

If it doesn’t work, i’ll just use the hoverboss as is, and mount the VNF on top

Then i’ll be back to 4 TR devices, LOL.

Excess is just enough, HAHA.
Hmm, I hadn't thought of sealing them down like that. It seems like it would hurt the effectiveness of the SLAPS for their normal use. The question is if the sealing out weighs that loss. Does that put the drivers that are firing into you seats too low? Any thoughts on putting the boxes on legs to give the SLAPS clearance? I have mine on legs that put them about 8" above the frame. That puts the boxes at about the top of my couch so that the drivers are chest high.
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post #1006 of 1020 Old 02-07-2020, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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@Nalleh - WICKED!!! So how much air pressure you got in your tubes now?
I am at about 4.5 psi now. Haven’t tested with different pressures yet, but it is lifted well of the iso with that pressure, so its all air bags, baby

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Hmm, I hadn't thought of sealing them down like that. It seems like it would hurt the effectiveness of the SLAPS for their normal use. The question is if the sealing out weighs that loss. Does that put the drivers that are firing into you seats too low? Any thoughts on putting the boxes on legs to give the SLAPS clearance? I have mine on legs that put them about 8" above the frame. That puts the boxes at about the top of my couch so that the drivers are chest high.
Yeah, i thought that was that you asked about Yes, i will and can try using the SLAPS as hoverboss, but it is a experiment for sure, no telling how that will works I started with those VNF’s on the floor behind me, so it will work for sure
But like i said, if it doesn’t work, i’ll just put back the two jbl’s in those holes and mount the VNF/SLAPS on top of them(with legs), like i had before
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post #1007 of 1020 Old 02-07-2020, 12:00 PM
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Dude, go check out that scene in Dark Phoenix where Gene goes to see her dad and confronts him. You know where all that mega single digit stuff is. It's some kind of ride with just hover alone!!!! I think you'll freak with the 6 under your seat when you run this scene

Ive got 5lbs in my tubes now. But the bottom of the platform touches the isos. Maybe because of my carpet and the tubes really sink in idk
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post #1008 of 1020 Old 02-07-2020, 02:36 PM
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@Nalleh - strange, my HB feels better (similar but still a little better) with it not inverted, especially with the MAs and BK's not inverted. But I have it set to the same negative delay as the MAs and BK too. 24' in the AVR. You got any ND set in your AVR on your HB when you liked it inverted better?

Just curious
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post #1009 of 1020 Old 02-07-2020, 03:10 PM
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@Nalleh - strange, my HB feels better (similar but still a little better) with it not inverted, especially with the MAs and BK's not inverted. But I have it set to the same negative delay as the MAs and BK too. 24' in the AVR. You got any ND set in your AVR on your HB when you liked it inverted better?

Just curious
In my setup the HB feels way better when in opposite phase as everything else, but I only have the cantilevered yet, will be interesting to see if I need to invert the jbl's aswell after converting them to HB or if they will work better opposite as the cantilevered drivers.

I'm using the same negative delay for all TR stuff
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post #1010 of 1020 Old 02-08-2020, 06:43 AM
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Thought you might like to see. First gen Buttkicker, I was surprised the piston is the same size to be so much larger than the LFE.
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post #1011 of 1020 Old 02-08-2020, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Dude, go check out that scene in Dark Phoenix where Gene goes to see her dad and confronts him. You know where all that mega single digit stuff is. It's some kind of ride with just hover alone!!!! I think you'll freak with the 6 under your seat when you run this scene

Ive got 5lbs in my tubes now. But the bottom of the platform touches the isos. Maybe because of my carpet and the tubes really sink in idk
Thanks for the demo tip, will look into it
Yeah, your carpet could be the reason, as it sinks more into it, than my wood floor. I did put that speaker carpet UNDER the tubes too now, and it got even better, very little air escaping now

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Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
@Nalleh - strange, my HB feels better (similar but still a little better) with it not inverted, especially with the MAs and BK's not inverted. But I have it set to the same negative delay as the MAs and BK too. 24' in the AVR. You got any ND set in your AVR on your HB when you liked it inverted better?

Just curious
Yeah, not done ANY measuring yet, so that might be why. And yes i run it all on same ND so far.

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Originally Posted by Magly View Post
In my setup the HB feels way better when in opposite phase as everything else, but I only have the cantilevered yet, will be interesting to see if I need to invert the jbl's aswell after converting them to HB or if they will work better opposite as the cantilevered drivers.

I'm using the same negative delay for all TR stuff
I am guessing you would need the same settings on both your cantilever and under seat boss. I have the same now, cantilever and under seat, and if i invert either, they cancel each other out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
Thought you might like to see. First gen Buttkicker, I was surprised the piston is the same size to be so much larger than the LFE.
Thanks for the pics, that older one looks huge, LOL. They really trimmed down that newer edition
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post #1012 of 1020 Old 02-11-2020, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, got my BK’s direct mounted

Actually got it done yesterday, but was plaqued by a irritating squeek i haven’t had before, so couldn’t turn it up. Turned out to be a screw moving against wood and made the noise. Removed screw, problem solved, LOL.

So i did what @Magly , @m0j0 and @SBuger have done lately and mounted the BK’s on the rear of the seat frame. Me and Magly have the same brand couch, so he did the legwork, so thanks for that

I (again)used some scrap pieces of 2x4 and a earlier board used to mount the BK(on the prototype sled) for this, and i simply mounted the board at an angle to the 2x4.



Ready to mount to seat.



Mounted.



And seat back together, and it all fit great, and as Magly reported, slightly harder to recline, but nothing big.



So now i have 6xJBL Hoverboss, 2x MA’s(single layer only) and 2x BK’s up and running on my seat.
And i found time check it a bit in REW and Qvibe/Viberry, and i got it all to play nice

Adding the BK’s to the already insane hoverboss really did improve thing, it seemed to add more dynamic range, it got punchier and fuller feel, and the BK’s clearly likes both this place to mount them AND the tubes instead of iso’s below them.

So here is a quick Viberry graph.
Orange is a older one using iso’s, grey’ish is previous setup with tubes as iso’s and green is todays hoverboss. Orange is MV-20, while the two others are MV -30 !! And still massive i improvements, LOL. Look at that 8.6hz peak in the green one!




And this is still without my VNF’s and only one seat! I expect getting all setup will only get things better
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post #1013 of 1020 Old 02-11-2020, 10:54 PM
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Keeps getting better! From a Viberry standpoint, does the current set up surpass when you had SLAPs in play?
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post #1014 of 1020 Old 02-12-2020, 05:34 AM
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Great work Nalleh! That looks next level awesome!
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post #1015 of 1020 Old 02-12-2020, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
Keeps getting better! From a Viberry standpoint, does the current set up surpass when you had SLAPs in play?

Yes!! That last graph was with NO slaps! And 10dB lower level, so yeah it is heaps better But that is ALL because of the tubes sealing around the drivers!

But don’t worrie, the SLAPS are going back in Either on top as before, or incorporated into the hoverboss. I will test with removing the two rearmost JBL’s in the sled and mount the VNF/SLAPS there instead, sealing it to the hoverboss and see if that works.
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post #1016 of 1020 Old 02-12-2020, 07:10 PM
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^^^ If those VNF/SLAPS work as Hover, it might just hover you to the moon!! Dude, i think you are fixing to surpass whatever was in your wildest TR dreams, even though it probably already has with what your running now.
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post #1017 of 1020 Old 02-14-2020, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Got the VNF back on the sled I just went out in the garage and found the legs i made for them earlier, and used them to space them up for clearance between the hoverboss JBL magnets and SLAPS. Again: not pretty! But it’s just for testing



3" + clearance now, should be plenty.




You can see the HB JBL’s, the BK and the VNF/ SLAPS here, LOL.




Made another run with Qvibe, and it is really starting to get wild in the single digits, LOL. 142dB at 7hz ! ! ! (Martian airlock clip again)



Impressions:

Well, even with all this the 6x hoverboss is just crushing it !! UN-BE-LI-EV-AB-LE ! The rest of the TR devices adds a couple dB each here and there, but they are simply no match no more for the HB, LOL.
And the VNF on top of sled adds the same SPL and punchy sound as before, not as much TR, but again, what surprises me is, how much SPL the HB adds! Not so much down low, but from 17-20hz it is very audiable, so it adds SPL to the rest too.
And luckily it doesn’t seem to be any cancellations between the SLAPS and the rest, either SPL or TR wise, so that’s good

Videos:




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post #1018 of 1020 Old 02-14-2020, 10:02 PM
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^^^ AWESOME and LOTS of movement in those vids!!! WOW!!!
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post #1019 of 1020 Old 02-15-2020, 11:29 AM
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Yeah there is! AWESOME update Nalleh!
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post #1020 of 1020 Old 02-15-2020, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^ Thanks guys

Here is a REW graph with all components.
As you can see, there is plenty of SPL from the hoverboss(black). The HB is of course not EQ’ed any way to flatten that curve, as is for TR only. Any SPL from it is bonus
Oh, and the curve looks like that on all subs with no EQ on them, so that is all room related nodes, peaks and dips.

So the "baseline" is the FF’s or my sonosubs, in this case the green one, and then each component seperate and added.

Red line is all subs, and then blue is with HB included, so you can see it actually adds a couple dB’s here and there, all the way down to ~8hz! I wonder if that is because the whole hoverboss sled becomes a moving membrane, LOL.



Also note above the VNF’s adds all over the curve, no cancellations anywhere(FF/green compared to FF+VNF/red)

And the added SPL from ~40hz on up from the HB is in spite of it having a 60hz 12dB LPF and -8.5dB of negative HS from 23hz, LOL. These JBL’s just want to pound, haha.



PS: these were done with just one FF (1/2 of normal), one VNF(1/3 of normal) and one hoversled(1/2 of what will be normal), so there is more to come. And that will smooth out the curve more too

Ohh, and having just 1/3 of the VNF/SLAPS is probably why just the one now "don’t impress me much".

Dual AVR 13.1.8 SWAtmos - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 6xSI18" - 12xJBL 12" w/6xSLAPS M12 downfiring VNF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE Dual TR Sleds- 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XB1X - ATV4K - Vertex2 - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873.
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Last edited by Nalleh; 02-15-2020 at 01:01 PM.
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