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My 11.4.12 "Franken-Atmos" living room.

184K views 1K replies 87 participants last post by  Nalleh 
#1 · (Edited)
My 13.4.12 "Franken-SWAtmos" living room.



EDIT april -23.

Denon finally came out with a AVR capable of Atmos 9.4.6 all with inboard amp channels, so i ditched the Franken Atmos and went legit😂😂 Read on from post 1303 👍


I get a lot of questions about my setup, so i tought i could make a thread explaining it a little more. And maybe some pics too.

Short version: i use more than one Atmos AVR's to expand beyond the 7.1.4/9.1.2 hardware limit on todays affordable gear.

Updated may 2019: ventured into the BOSS world of shakers, post 562..
Updated Mars 2019: stacked Crowson motion actuators and Buttkickers, post 498.

Updated may 2018: new nearfield solution with 12x12" JBL’s behind the couch. Starts at post 281.


UPDATED MARCH 2018


Ok, here we go again. Since reading about the new Denon flagship receiver capable of 13.1 and all amps built in, i had to make changes. So i sold the 5200 and 6200 and have now gotten the brand new AVC-X8500H. So no i can either do 9.1.4 or 7.1.6 with JUST the 8500, or as i have it configured for now 7.1.6 from the 8500 and 9.1.2 from the 7200 for a total of 9.1.6. And this is as correct 9.1.6 as you can get in this price range. And i can also do a (nearly) correct DTS:X 9.1.6. Auro is coming in a May update and will be 13.1. So i should be covered either way.

And if i want(and will test later on) i can still do the 13.1.8 setup i had earlier, but now i just need these two AVR’s. The 8500 for 9.1.4 (FH+RH), and the 7200 setup with 5.1.4+W for special wides and special surround + TF+TR.

So gear now is:

Gear.
Oppo BDP-203 UHD player(regionfree)
XBOX ONE X
Canal Digital HD PVR satellite-box
Apple TV3
(Darbee Darblet and MARSEILLE MCABLE for 1080P content)
Denon AVC-X8500H
Denon AVR-X7200WA
Yamaha RX-V3067
3 X Inuke NU6000DSP
JVC DLA RS600
Dreamscreen V2 dynagrey 120" screen
Samsung UE65JU7005 UHDTV
Harmony Ultimate.
Front=Klipsch RF-82 mk1
Center=Klipsch RC-64 mk2
Wide= Dynavoice Challenger M65 V3
Surr= Klipsch RS52
WideSur1/Sur2=Klipsch RS42
Surrback= KEF3005SE
Height speakers= 10x KEF3005SE
Nearfield mid-bass= Behringer B1200D
LFE= 2 X Sonosubs with 2 X SI18HT v2 in Dual Opposed config.
4x Crowson Shadow8 motion actuators
MiniDSP 2X4 balanced

Read more in post 259 :)


OLDER SETUP:


Did a quick and dirty diagram of the setup.
Blue speakers powered by the 7200.
Red speakers powered by the 6200.
Yellow speakers powered by the 5200.





I will try to have the first post as updated about the setup as possible, and then take the details as we go.

Edit: updated Feb -17:

My HT is in the right half of my living room, and the room dimensions are:

5.1x4.1x2.4 meter

16.5Wx13.5Dx7.8H feet


EDIT sep17:

Or about 1800 cubic feet
(+ the other half).

Gear.
Panasonic DMP-UB900 UHD player
HD FURY Integral
Oppo BDP-103 BD player
Darbee Darblet
Canal Digital HD PVR satellite-box
Apple TV3
PS3 (fat)
XBOX360
Denon AVR-X7200WA
Denon AVR-X6200W
Denon AVR-X5200W
Yamaha RX-V3067
Inuke NU6000DSP
JVC DLA X500R
Dreamscreen V2 dynagrey 120" screen
Samsung UE65JU7005 UHDTV

Front=Klipsch RF-82 mk1
Wide= Dynavoice Challenger M65 V3
Center=Klipsch RC-64 mk2
Surr= Klipsch RS52
WideSur1/Sur2=Klipsch RS42
Surrback= KEF3005SE
Height speakers= 10x KEF3005SE
Nearfield mid-bass= Behringer B1200D
LFE= SVS PB12-Plus/2
ULF= PSA S3000i +4x Crowson Shadow8 motion actuators
MiniDSP 2X4 balanced

All controlled by a Logitech Harmony Ultimate with the hub+4 extenders.

So my earlier setup was a Denon 7200/5200 combo, to get 7.1.4 + Wides + 8 channels of height speakers, for a 9.1.8 setup, explained further down on page(behing the spoiler), but i recently got a 6200 to gain HDMI 2.0 and DTS:X on the second AVR. Then i discovered "Special Wides" descrided in post 67 in this thread. Since i now had 3 Atmos AVR's, this gave me the opportunity to gain both 2 set of wides, AND keep my 8 channels of heights, for a grand total of 13.1.8 in native Atmos and 9.1.8 on DTS:X.




In daily TV use, i have just the 7200 playing DSU in a 7.1.4 setup, but it has all 14 speakers connected, for a 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS:X or 10.1 Auro 3D setup.

So in native Atmos, setup is as follows:
7200 switched to 9.1.2 for fronts @ 25 degrees, "Pure Wides" @ 50 degrees, "Pure Surrounds @ 85 degrees and Surround backs @150 degrees. Playing only 9.1.0(note 1)(note5).



6200 setup as 5.1.4+Wides(note2) for Wides/Sur1 @ 70 degrees, Sur2/Rears @110 degrees and Top Front+ Top Rear. Playing Wides, Sur2, and Tops(note4).



5200 setup as 5.1.4 for Front Height and Rear Height. Playing 0.0.4
(note 1)(note 2)(note3).



So basically the 7200 plays 9.1.0, while the 5200 plays 0.0.4(heights).
And 6200 plays 5.0.4(Wide/Sur1+Sur2/Rear+Tops).



As you can see in the little channel indicators in front display, the 7200(to the left) plays SB and WIDES, the 6200(bottom right) plays wides but no SB's and the 5200 (top right) plays no wides and no SB's.
As before, they are linked together via HDMI ZONE2 daisy-chained to the next AVR.

I only need on/off and main volume changes on the 6200/5200, so one original remote(and Harmony ultimate) handles that very well.

Note 1: both the 7200 and 5200 front and rear heights pre-out goes to the main and zone2 outputs of the Yama, so i just use the remote to switch the heights currently beeing used between the 7200 and 5200. So when the 7200 is in 9.1.2 mode, i let the 5200 power the heights.

Note 2: both the 6200 and 5200 wides pre-out goes to zone3 on the Yama, so i can choose wich one powers the Wide/sur1 speakers. This way i can use Neo:X wides from the 5200 in DSU(wich do not use wides).

Note 3: in Auro 3D, the 7200 powers the full 10.1 possible. But i can copy the 5200 surrounds(in Auro mode) to the surround back speakers(silent in Auro 10.1) for Auro "12.1" This way i get more "rear fill" than with just the 7200 surrounds @85 degrees. This is done with a dual source speaker switch. I can also power the Surround Heights with the 5200 if i change amp assign to FH+SH, for Auro "14.1".

Note 4: i have a "Center Height" speaker above the screen. This is connected to the center output of the 6200, and works as a "dialog lift", and also helps pannings between the front heights.

Note 5: the 7200 powers a VOG(sub2 pre-out) used in Auro 3D. In other formats, i can matrix a VOG using PL2 in the Yama extracted from the rear heights.


After all this was connected, all 3 AVR's got a full Pro calibration. This took a while...



I got a third !?! Kef3005SE 5.1 speaker kit for this upgrade. I switched out the surround backs from Klipsch to Kef, and the rear heights from white to black Kef's.



And got rid of the bookshelfs used as Surround Heights for white Kef's.
See the Kef sub on top of the Bluray rack? I now have bass-managment on the rear heights ;)




Older setup behind spoiler, no longer used. Too complicated :(

7200 Audyssed with 7.1.4 FH+RH+wides+VOG. 14 speakers.
5200 Audyssed with 7.1.4 TF+TR+wides. 13 speakers.

In native Atmos, my 7200 is playing 7.1.4, no SB+FW.

My 5200 is playing TF+TR.
However: since the 7200 has deactivated SB's in this case, and they then are downmixed into the surrounds, I switch the surrounds and surround-backs over to the 5200, via my old AVR(Yama 3067 set up as a multisource(all three zones) active speaker switch).

So the 5200 also plays surrounds and SB's.

="TRUE" 9.1.8 ;)

When playing native DTS:X (wich is limited to 7.1.4 anyway) from the 7200, i can play wides from the 5200 in Neo:X mode(matrixed from fronts and surrounds in both cases anyway).

And then when playing native Auro 3D, the 7200 plays 10.1, and if the track is 13.1, the 5200 can fill in with surround backs.




Setup. Ok, so a little more in detail how it all is connected.

The two AVR's are simply connected with a HDMI cable from the 7200 zone2 HDMI OUT, to AV1 input on the 5200. This output is a copy of the input, untouched, unprocessed, full sound and picture.

From the 7200 the speakers are:

Front LR= 7200.

Center=7200.

Surrounds= goes trough a dual source-dual output speaker switch.
Input A is from the 7200 surround speakers
Input B is from the 5200 surround speakers
Output 1 goes to surround speakers 1 at 85 degrees
Output 2 goes to surround speakers 2 at 110 degrees
So i can choose wich surround should play, even both sets from on AVR. Or one from each. Like when i deactivate the 7200 SB's to gain the wides, i can let the 5200 play surround1 and SB's, and then let the 7200 play the surround2.

Surround back= Both 7200 and 5200 surround back pre-outs goes to Yama AVR zone2 input audio1 and audio2. So i can choose wich plays the SB's. I also have a input from 5200 surrounds here, so i can copy the surrounds to surround back, eg in Auro.

Front wides= goes trough a second dual source-dual output speaker switch.
Input A is from the 7200 front wide speakers.
Input B is from the 5200 front wide speakers.
So either the 7200 or the 5200 can power the wides.

Front height= 7200.

Rear height= 7200 pre-out goes to Yama AVR main zone input AV1
I can choose stereo(2speakers) or PL2 matrixing to the center channel, VOG(3speakers).
Rear height is also connected via a Y-connector to the Yama multi ch front input.

Top surround(Auro 3D)= 7200 sub2 pre-out goes to Yama multi ch input, center channel.

So by switching the Yama from AV1 input(Atmos/DTS:X) to multi ch input (Auro 3D) i get correct signal to rear height and top surround).

From the 5200 the speakers are:

Front LR= connected to 7200 multi ch inputs, fronts. When calibrating or playing from 5200, the 7200 is switched to multi ch.

Center= 5200 to a center height.

Surrounds= see above dual source speaker switch.

Surround back= see above Yama zone2.

Front wides= see above second dual source speaker switch.

Top fronts= 5200.

Top rears= 5200 pre-out goes to Yama AVR Zone 3.

Surround height(Auro 3D)= 5200 pre-out is also connected via a Y-connector to Yama AVR main zone multi ch input, surround channels.

So on the Yama, if i turn of zone3(top rear) and switch to multi ch, the 5200 height2 signal is directed to the surround heights(Auro 3D).

I have a lot of flexibility with this setup, but it is not advisable to leave the remote with grandma :)

Some pics of the recently redone living room.





























 
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25
#2 ·
Here' how i did it over a year ago:

Well, screw DTS:X. Got tired of waiting, so i tried something else.
Frustrated about the 7.1.4 limit of speaker in Atmos?
Don't want the hassle of 8min config loads to get both Atmos/Auro full setups?
Can't afford the overly expensive Trinnov or Datasat?

Well, i found a way to get 9.1.6 native Atmos and 12.1 Auro 3D with 1 setup!

How?
Well, as you know, i have my Denon 5200, connected to 14 speakers, and it is setup with full 10.1 Auro:
5.1+FH+SH+TS(VOG).
Press the movie remote button and the 9.1.2 Atmos is selected:
5.1+FW+SB+FH.
Ok, since i got over a grand for my old Onkyo 3010 receiver, i used the money to buy a second Denon, this time the little brother: 4100.
So, connected some of the 5200's speakers and some new to get it calibrated, this has amp assign as follows:

Amp Assign: 9.1
Height Speakers: 4 height speakers
Height Layout: Top Middle+Rear Height
Pre-out: Front and rear height

The two receivers are connected using a HDMI from the Zone2 HDMI out from the 5200, that send full image and sound, by the way, to one of the HDMI input on the 4100.

I do not have fronts connected to the 4100, but the 4 ceiling seakers make the new native Atmos setup a full 9.1.6 :
5.1+FW+SB+FH(as before from the 5200) +TM+RH(from the 4100).



The 5200:



The 4100:



Movie button again switch to the full 10.1 Auro setup from the 5200 and with a dual source speaker switch for the Surround backs between 5200/4100 , and i gain the SB from the 4100 on the Auro setup= 12.1.

But wait, there's more. The following are connected to the 4100, eq'd and separatly calibrated from the 5200' speakers.
Side Surround B. Since the 4100 have empty surround speaker post, why not use them with a second set surround speakers placed at ca 80 degrees(surround A at 110 degrees).
Center Height. Same here, empty center speakers posts, so connected another center speaker high on the front wall.

And remember the pesky use of sub pre-out 2 for the Top Surround in Auro 10.1 setup?
Well, the 4100 has 2 brand new seperatly calibrated sub pre-outs available!

Actually, with a second dual source speaker switch, i can use the Atmos RH as SBH in Auro, since the SBH is ganged in SH anyway in Auro 15.1 setup.

So, one could say the following:

Atmos: 5.1+SB+S2+FW+FH+TM+RH+CH=11.1.7

Auro 3D:
5.1+SB+S2+FH+SH+SBH+TS+CH= 17.1

It works!! The lip sync is spot on, and espesially the 6 ceiling speakers really woke up the "spaceious" feeling, and i believe the 4100 will be staying :)

A couple of glitches though, but nothing major, ex. two volum buttons etc. but i can live with them.
And some pics:










It has been updated since this, but the basic function is the same.
 
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#3 · (Edited)
More pics



Old 50 inch HD vs new 65 inch

When watching movies, black curtains drawn
 
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#4 ·
A older rendition from 2012, LOOL.


 

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#5 ·
thanks for the write, still a bit over my head but Im sure after I read it a few more times I will get it. ^^;;
 
#7 ·
Sure, This kind of setup is not for everybody. ;)

Wow. You might single handedly keep the speaker manufacturing business in business! Your creativity is awesome. With this layout and all these speakers, and the two receivers, what formats (and which speakers are used for each specific format) are you able to play?

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
Thanks :)

Well, this days with DTS:X there is a bit of reconfiguring going on to get the best total setup for all format. Especially since the 5200 is not able to do DTS:X.

But now, with just the 7200 I can do a shared setup of ATMOS/DTS:X/AURO 3D as follows.

It is setup in a 7.1.5 using FH+RH+VOG, so in ATMOS and DTS:X it is 7.1.4 and in AURO it is 5.1.5 or 10.1.
With the 5200 i can fill in several sets of speakers, like TF+TR in ATMOS. Or Surround back in AURO 3D.

I will explain more is a get done configuring.
 
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#6 ·
Wow. You might single handedly keep the speaker manufacturing business in business! Your creativity is awesome. With this layout and all these speakers, and the two receivers, what formats (and which speakers are used for each specific format) are you able to play?

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
 
#10 ·
Need more speakers, can almost see a bit of walls between them. :)

Have you managed to try the Atmos demos in that setup yet?
 
#11 · (Edited)
Sure did :)
Man, that Battle Front demo was intense ;)

Now with DTS:X and this demo disc i am in some serious thoughts about how to set it all up. It is A LOT to consider with all three formats.
 
#12 ·
Nalleh,

For the multiple AVR setup I have a few questions.

Have you tried connecting the remote control in/out connection from one unit to the other?

I am curious to know if they will stay in sync if the poweron volume levels are set and they get the same vol up/down to each unit...
I wonder if the Marantz remote link will do the same without the need for a remote flasher or constant use of two remotes or a phone app.

Do the audyssey calibration volume levels match or do you set them with an SPL meter?

I actually have a Marantz SR7009 and was considering a second one or even just a simple older SR500x unit to do Surround and Back Surround and not worry about TR given that it would be only around $250 for a used 7.1 unit to get 9.2.4 and about $900 for another SR7009 to enable 9.2.6 (or 9.2.8) which is getting fairly expensive for diminishing returns (and less spousal understanding).

I read that you said that the same unit has to control surround and back surround or the backs are mixed into the sides which is a good tip! Wth only 9.2.4 I am assuming that the sound would not overlap or be mixed at all as long as I have the LCR, wides, and 4 atmos on the main receiver. Do you agree?

Thanks for doing some of the pioneering work here,

Rich
 
#13 ·
I have not tried the remote in/out connections, as i use ID2 on the 7200. I would say you need two seperate remotes, because there are always situations where you need to adjust something on just one. If the AVR are different, then one command would do different thing on the two AVR's.
Yes, all the Audyssey results are rather identical.

There are two problems with using another AVR for just the surround backs.
1. On your main AVR, disabling the SB's, means it will downmix those signal into the side surrounds. Getting another AVR to do just the SB's, means the SB signal will come from both the main AVR's side surround, AND the AVR2's SB speakers.
2. Using a NON-Atmos AVR2 for your SB's, means in will have the "height-sounds" mixed into AVR2 SB's. So the sounds coming from main AVR heights, will also come from your SB's.
 
#17 ·
^^^ Correct !

It is not easy to get this right. If it was easy, everybody would do it, right?
 
#18 · (Edited)
Agreed.

It isn't easy and it isn't cheap to get it right.

I haven't seen an official dolby spec that really breaks down what content goes to the surrounds in atmos mode so it is good to hear what the consensus is from everyone's experiences.



I finally see the info on how the base/heights change in 7.1/atmos in post 2615 here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...-thread-atmos-dts-x-auro-88.html#post39983362

There sure is a lot of stuff to sift through to find what is needed on this topic...


I have a coworker who just swapped out his SR6007 with an SR5010 so he said I could play around with the SR6007 which is just sitting around now.

I am very interested to compare the surroundsin back to back listening tests with my atmos SR7009 in 7.1.4 mode and the TrueHD SR6007 in 7.1 mode. I understand that there are difference but I am curious to see if it is subtle or a big difference.

Have you tried the configuration where you setup your second AVR to drive the surrounds only to see how different it really is?

-Rich
 
#22 ·
No, they will not. If you want one setup for all three formats, then front height+rear height is the only setup possible.
 
#23 ·
Lately i have upgraded the projector to a JVC X500 4K E-Shift. And a HDFURY, to compliment the Samsung K8500 UHD Bluray player.

 

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#24 · (Edited)
Just ordered some Crowson MA's. Very exited to test them out :)
 
#26 · (Edited)
Thanks :)

Not as crazy as you yanks, but it works for my needs. And thanks for getting me on to the Crowsons, they rock ;)
 

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#28 ·
5.2.4 would probably be enough ;)

I would not recommend this kind of madness to anyone.
 
#29 ·
So, I'm trying to understand how your system is connected in terms of getting a mental picture of how it's configured. From a strictly Atmos-specific layout, am I correct in assuming that each Denon AVR can only be assigned a maximum of two Atmos channels? With two AVRs, you run 4 Atmos channels (8 speakers). Theoretically speaking, is it possible to daisy-chain a 3rd Atmos receiver so you can run all 5 Atmos channels? i.e. FH+RH+TF+TM+TR?
 
#30 ·
It is possible. Would it be noticable better? Don't think so.
 
#31 ·
From the other night, getting ready to watch a movie.

 

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#32 ·
Nalleh, I don't have Denon AVR's so I am a little lost with the verbal hook up description... any chance you have this all drawn out? A connection diagram would be way easier to digest...

I think that I could budget for two AVR's (for example new 11 channel units) that would give me what I want...
 
#33 ·
Hi Al.

I am away on vacation at the moment, but i will see if there is something i can get done, to make it easier to visualize what i am doing.
 
#35 ·
Outstanding. Just incredible!
 
#41 ·
Updated first post with more pics, and updated gear list.
 
#43 ·
I love my Klipsch speakers, they are really dynamic and have plenty of power, more than i use, so they are great value for money.

Sidenote:
Just ordered two more Crowsons, and a Behringer B1200D for MBM duty. Can't wait :)
 
#44 ·
First, awesome system!

Second, which do you find you prefer from a sound quality standpoint - Atmos, DTS:X or AURO 3D? I am considering getting the Yamaha RX-A3060 or the CX-A5100 but they don't have AURO 3D and I keep reading good things about it. I also like the Denon and the Marantz systems and don't want to miss out if AURO 3D is the better option.
 
#46 ·
Thanks.
Regarding upmixers, i probably use DSU most, on a daily basis, It works best with 2-channel PCM in normal TV watching.
When speaking about native format, i actually love Auro 3D. It has the most natural, dynamic and logical placements of sounds. DTS:X is a a bit like Auro and has great 3D soundscape, while Atmos is the least agressive of them all.

HOWEVER: the big problem with Auro is content. Or lack thereof.

I too run a Denon X7200 WA. Do you have video dropouts?
After watching stuff for just on 2hrs, I get 1-3 droputs in a row, lasting about 10-15 seconds each, with 2-3 minutes between them, then it seems to settle down again. This happens when using my JVC X3 projector not the TV.
I had those problems when my 5200 was new, two years ago, but new HDMI cables solved it.
 
#48 ·
Dolby Atmos Setup Questions

I am looking for a little help in my set up of my Home theatre.
I run PSB speakers (Alpha B and C's...fronts, center,sub,side surround and back surround) and the new PSB Atmos speakers that sit on top of the front right and left speakers. I am only running front Dolby ATMOS speakers, no rears.
I have the Denon AVR-X4100W Receiver as well as the Denon AVR 3802 receiver.
The 4100 is driving all the speakers except the DOLBY ATMOS speakers, which are run from the 3802. (RCA pre out from the height speaker out on the 4100 to the front L/R in on the 3802. I have 2 subs which are run from the sub 1 and 2 pre outs on the 4100.

So... the question is in the Auddesey setup and what speaker setup to choose.

It gives me all sorts of options including 9.1 speaker, Dolby ATMOS Speaker and 7.1 speaker setups.
Which is correct?
I currently have it on 9.1 with front dolby speakers. Should I be using the Dolby ATMOS speaker configuration.???
A little confused here....any help would be appreciated.
 
#50 · (Edited)
I currently have it on 9.1 with front dolby speakers. Should I be using the Dolby ATMOS speaker configuration.???
A little confused here....any help would be appreciated.
You have the correct setup.

That is just a bonkers set up, in the most awesome ways. I am curious how large is that room? I mean it looks fairly small for the amount of speakers you have going on in there, I mean compared to the size rooms you normally see when people running a set up close to yours. Although there are probably not many running something near that complicated. But this place being what it is I am sure someone will chime in with their 32.16.153 9 AVR uber set up. And out of curiosity what remote do you use to control that bad boy? Im still amazed by the layout of it and that diagram. Heck I sitting here just finally getting ready to set up my first legit 5.2 set up.
Yup, you are correct, this is bonkers and totally overkill. I would probably be very happy with a normal 7.1.4 setup, but hey: i wanted to see if it could work :) And it does, rather exellent too ;)

Good point about the room size, forgot about that:

5.1x4.1x2.4 meter

16.5Wx13.5Dx7.8H feet, or about 3000 cubic feet.

I use a Logitech Harmony Ultimate with two extra extenders(4 total+the hub of course), and it works perfect. The 7200 is switched to remote code ID2, so they work independently.

However when i am switching from TV to movie watching, i still have to do a couple of things manually, if it is Atmos:
Disable 7200 SB(to gain wides)
Switch SB over to 5200( powered from Yama's zone2)
Switch SURR over to 5200(sp.switch1)

So i still use the original remotes regurlary. But hey, i am pedantic :)
 
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