A bit more update from last time (warning ...kind of a long post here)
So I said I was done experimenting and tweaking with the bass and TR in my setup in last weeks update, and was ready to just start really enjoying it and watching a lot of content.
Well here I am a week later and I just couldn’t help myself I guess LOL. I caved and did a few more little experiments I had intended to do previously on my VNFs and also made a few little tweaks here and there.
But, that said I have been enjoying the heck out of the system and watching a lot of content like I said I wanted to do. The wife has even got in on quite a bit of it.
Finished up the last two seasons of Game of Thrones, and watched First Man and Captain Marvel (CM twice lol), all with BEQ for full band of course BEQ rules!!!
Game of Thrones was awesome to watch on big screen!! Seemed very much like IMAX and just HUGE since it’s 16:9 and I sit so close to the 120”. I didn’t realize I was a season behind in GOT so that was a real treat to find out ....so an extra season that I didn’t even know I was gonna get. I wanted to try to get some real cool dragon pics, but didn't want to spend a bunch of time trying to find the really cool ones. But, I do love me some GOT and Dragons! The mother of Dragons is not too bad either, even though she has issues
Wouldn't mind watching the whole thing again start to finish once they all come out in Atmos, like the first two seasons:
I posted a little about First Man and Captain Marvel over in the BEQ thread the other day, but might as well mention it here too I guess.
First Man with BassEQ, WOW!!!!! Some of coolest ULF TR and just overall TR I think I’ve ever experienced to go with the visuals on screen. I truly felt like I was in the shuttle compartment every time they were in it, not just the big blast take offs. From the tiniest of nuances to the big shifts and jolts. Pretty crazy how BEQ totally brings the ULF back to life from it being so heavily filtered. This movie’s effects would be no where near the same without it. Makes me thrilled to have a system capable of delivering the goods down deep into the singles digits.
My wife watched this one with me and even said it felt so real. She said it felt like we were on a ride and right there actually inside the cabin feeling it all. Was cool that she got to experience it with me.
We were watching a movies the other day (before First man), The Girl in the Spiders Web. There were some really awesome TR scenes that I had to rewind and replay right quick because they were just so cool. She normally doesn’t care at all about TR, but she said, I have to admit, that’s pretty darn awesome. So, I thought that was cool since she usually doesn’t care about that kind of stuff lol
That movie was awesome too BTW.
Then Captain Marvel. Supersized me. Pretty decent movie with some awesome ULF with BEQ and other bass, plus overall great Atmos mix. Was a good time!!
I’ve done quite a lot of demoing too with good movie material (I still love to do this and always will I think). So after a week or so with being basically finished with the new BOSS sub riser in the system, I’m still blown away by it. I just can’t get over what this sub woofer riser feels like just setting on the ground with no isolators under it. It just almost doesn’t seem right when I really think about it and I would have never thought it could move me like it does and feel the way it feels. It’s kind of uncanny actually just how freaking real it feels, plus has tons of power across the board. So needless to say I guess, it’s probably been the best TR component I’ve ever added to my system. So glad I tried it out!!!
That said, I do love my Crowson MAs too and they really help add to it, especially down super low. They work together fantastic too, which is way cool.
So with all that said, what this post originally started out to be, was an update on what I messed with a little more. My VNF subs, and even checked out my BK LFEs one last time just to be sure I had made the right decision about Tao how them out of the mix.
But first and foremost, the Very Near Field subs. VNF yall, , they are friggin awesome!! I think I had almost forgotten just what VNFs subs are capable of delivering and why I have always been such a huge fan of them over the past 4-5 years.
My BOSS sub riser is 6” tall, so with the VNF subs setting on the floor, that leaves about that much of a gap from where the driver hits the seat back. So, I raised them up. Easy enough. I had plans to build a nice stand(s) and even angle them, but just used some crates for now that seems to work great to get the driver up higher.
First I tried them without the crate and just left the back end of the cab setting on the floor and rested the front on the back of the riser, since it has no isolators under the riser anyway with it sitting on the floor. So this angled it up, got the drivers a little closer to the seat backs and also gave additional TR as well from the cabinet in contact with the sub riser. Was pretty darn good.
I think I forgot to takes pics of this.
So then, next step was to raise the back end up with the crates and that brought the drivers up real close to the seat backs pretty close to chest level when Reclined.
A few Pics of that ...
You can see about an inch of the front of the cab resting on the sub riser. More would have been better but this worked for a first test:
And then all lined up, on riser and drivers up close to seat backs:
^^^ Pretty crazy, got the slam (and TR) from Particle Velocity since the drivers were so close to my back + the TR the cabinets created from being in contact with the sub riser. Since it was connected now, even with just about an inch of the front part of the cabinet, the TR could really be felt. But it just ended up being too much TR in the higher frequencies for my liking and didn’t feel quite right, since I like to crossover at 90hz. 80hz was even too much at times. My system seems to just sound and feel the best with crossovers set to 90hz. The LPF of LFE setting as well. So I wanted to leave them set like that if I could.
So next, moved the cabinet back a bit so that it’s not resting on the sub riser and only the crate to lift it up chest height and also fire into the bottom bracing of the seats as well.
You can see the crates I used to raise the subs up higher. Lightweight be seem to do the trick well for now:
In between seats with subs behind:
Side shot the very left seat. Driver is about an inch away from the bottom crossbar and top of seat back. Can also see the back JBL 12". There is one in front of it too but can't see it. Can also see where I have the Crowson MAs positioned under the inner inside feet of the seat frame. They do real well here:
Another side seat shot:
A shot on left side corner. I do use 4 isoslators on top of the BOSS sub riser on the outer feet since the MAs are on the inner feet a bit further in (you can see one in the pic). None on the front or anywhere else though. I really like the feel of just these four isos on the top back in between the 6 MAs:
And a few shots with them all lined up. Lifted but not resting on the sub riser:
^^^ Yes ....PERFECT! Brings a pretty good amount of TR and a whole a lot of slam that can really be felt internally from the PV. A ton of it actually. Drivers being only 6” closer made a pretty crazy difference!!! Especially in the MB area for chest feel. A LOT more visceral and in combo with the BOSS sub riser, there is a violence now that I didn’t really realize I was missing out on. The TR also feels more engulfing, bringing more of a feeling that the TR is coming from everywhere, if that makes sense.
Also, it’s not too sharp feeling in the chest like it used to be occasionally. I think them being about 1” lower than I used to have them pre 6” BOSS sub riser may have helped some, but also I think Audy was boosting the 68hz area a little too much on them previously, making them a little too aggressive feeling (or too sharp feeling in the chest I guess I could say with them being this close). Now that I’ve got plenty of subs spread out though, I can fix the problem pre-Audy.
LOVE LOVE LOVE the VNFs and now remember why I said I’d never be without them, no matter what other TR devices I’m running and or how great they might be. Almost didn’t think I needed them there for a while I guess, since I was so happy with the MAs and Sub Riser.
- I think your gonna be blown away by that 21” ported beast of a VNF sub your building, especially if you can get the drivers and even the port close to your back at the MLP.
In most cases I think, the combination is where the true magic is for the complete package though.
With that said, on to the BK LFEs. Over the last couple weeks or so, I had made the decision to retire them and take them out of the mix for different reasons that I may or nah not have mentioned in some of my previous posts.
So this is where they have been hanging out, as theater entryway decor LOL.
Just doesn’t seem right huh! LOL. I still have a lot of respect for them and know what they are capable of. I’ve enjoyed them immensely over the years and was pretty much the backbone of my 13-28hz TR power.
So, since I see them every time I go in and out of the theater, I thought I’d give them one more chance. Plus
is still rocking them out in his new setup and loving them. So your partially responsible too for me to try them again. hmmmmm ...what’s wrong with the world here Nalleh, I nagged you into trying them in your system because I told you they are just so good at what they do, then you gave in and you love them. Now I go and take them out of my system, WTF!!?? Strange times man LOL
Ok, So on with it.
Short version: They are staying retired and out of the mix. I know, seriously, WTF rihgt!!??
Long version: It still amazes me that I don’t think I need these anymore. In fact, I think they just do more harm than good when it comes to the overall TR feel for whatever reason in my setup. Yes, they combine well like they should and add more TR. But, I’m just so happy with the precision, power, explosive and extreme feeling of realism (at least to me anyway) with the combo of BOSS sub riser, MAs and VNFs that the BKs just seem to mess this up for me just a little bit no matter how I set them I the mix.
Could be that I’m just loosing my skills to be able to integrate these bad boys these days or maybe it’s just my particular seating. IDK, maybe a little of both. I thought the wee the best things ever on my couch so used to use.
So there it is. Now I know and gave them one more try (again) and don’t have to always wonder if I’m leaving more on the table by not having them in the mix. I guess I’ll be remaining BK LFEless. The combo of everything else seems to be giving me everything I want right now though, which is cool.
That said, I know setups can always be better. There are things I could still do and try and may at some point. Like maybe even add some SLAPS to my BOSS subriser in place of my rear 3 JBL 12’s, or even just the one in the rear position under my middle seat MLP. I think it would work great actually. Maybe not, but I’d be real surprised if t didn’t after what Nalleh has done with his, even though mine would be really different than his.
Then there is the 24” VNF sub behind the MLP like I’ve always dreamed of. That would bring on the hurt in a big way I think, especially since I seem to love what an 18” can do.
Or, build some stands that will angle my 18’s at about a 45 degree angle so the entire driver covers the seat back from lower to higher, which would bypass he part of the driver firing into the lower crossbar and out it more on my body. I think could deliver some pretty serious upper body blows. Might be amazing, but then again, might be too localized feeling and the way I have it now may be better overall. Only one way to find out. I actually already have the wood to build it, just haven’t wanted to take the time to mess with it yet. Maybe one of these days if I get board.
But for now, time to just enjoy the heck out this bass and TR setup as is for quite a while first. I think I’m finally tired of tinkering and trying to squeeze ever last drop of awesomeness I can out of it lol.
Speaking of tweaking. I did some of that as well this last couple of days now that I’ve settled on a setup config. After REWing and VSing etc for all the objective stuff, I put all that away and just made a few adjustments here and there by the seat of my pants so to speak , mainly levels adjustments on a few components to feel and sound the best to my ears and other senses with a variety of good demo material. Also, played with more and less isos on top. Even differnt kinds. I kept coming back to just the 4 hifi Hudson soft isos on the back of the outer seat feet in between the MAs. Again just going by feel here because in the end that the ultimate test and what matters most, not what the VS shows. I knew from VS measurements that I lose a bit of TR from adding them in. I don't care though. It feels quite a bit better with them in there, especially in the ULF TR department. Such smooth, fluid, powerful and super realistic feeling ULF TR movement with them in place. Take them out, and I loose some of that. I could really tell a big diff on First Man and a few others I tested it on. Seems to work well with my more rigid seating, softening is just the right amount. Add isos to the front in additions though and it gets almost to much and looses a bit tos much detail.
After raising up my VNFs 6”, I found I liked my NFs 1 dB lower and the BOSS sub riser 1db lower as well. Then bumping sub trims 1/2db (Not that they were struggling or bottoming (I don’t think I’ve bottomed the 6x JBL 12’s yet with them in sub riser form yet, With ISOS under I did though trying to get enough low end)). It’s just that sometimes a bit -less- feels like -more-. A little cleaner and punchier and richer feeling. Kinda like running you’re subs too hot in the mix. Most of the time it doesn’t mean they are hitting their limits, it just sounds better if you back them off a bit to strike that perfect balance and harmony. So that may not sound like much with those tweaks I did, but really helped bring on the best feel and sound in my system I think. Sometime it doesn’t take much. I think I've got so much TR power I tap now, that it just comes down to the little things sometimes to get the best feel out of it all.
So that’s that. Then I also moved my 6 JBLs to one BK amp instead of split between two BK alps. So instead of 3 JBLs in series per one amp getting about 110-150 watts a piece, I’m now running them 3 JBLs in front in series and the other 3 in back in series and then running those together in parallel for a 6 ohm load instead of 12 ohm. I think that’s how that works anyway, probably doubling the power.
I had to turn the the BOSS sub riser down about 4db exactly in the mini to be the same level as before. Seems to be working great.
— kind of a funny story about the BKs amps thing — as if I haven’t typed out enough crap already LOL. When comparing the two ways ( 1 all vs 2 to power all 6 JBLs), when switching back to two amps at one point to compare, I somehow got the wrong polarity of the wires messed up. I use banana plugs and just wasn’t thinking right when I reconnected the wires back to the plugs. So it reversed the phase and I did t know it. When I don’t run the phase inverted on the BOSS, it totally cancels out all of my TR under about 12hz and under when combined with my other TR components. I scratched my head for about 30 minutes trying to figure out just what in the hell happened to all my 12hz and under TR that I usually have by the truckload. I should have known since I know this is what happens when the phase is not set right, but took me a while to figure out that I messed up the wiring. LOL.
I tell ya though, Folks that say 10-12hz and under is not that important and not worth chasing are dead wrong!!! With BEQ these days making all movie content full band, it felt like a major portion of my bass and TR was missing on some of my favorite demos that’s I’m so fond of and familiar with. Just crazy what those super lows add to the experience!! They are VERY important to say the least
So anyway, back on track. That gives me one freed up spare BK amp. So not sure what I’m gonna do with my 4 BK LFEs and extra BK amp now. I kind of want to keep them all just in case I ever change my mind and want them for whatever reason or in a future setup or something, since they do still hold a special place in my heart for all the joy they have brought me over the years LOL
Or I could try to sell them all I guess and maybe put that towards a new 4K projector. I’ve already started saving for a new 4 K projector, but need to start looking into what to get and try to educate my self a little bit on the PJ subject. Not sure if I should get another Epson (which I still love my Epson 5030, but probably need get with the times and to go 4k) or a JVC or Sony. Maybe even just go with the Epson 5040 (next step up from mine) for a little cheaper than some of the other 4Ks. Not sure how much I’m wanna spend. Could easily spend 5 grand or more I’m sure if I go to looking into the newest ones.
If anybody sees this, any recommendations on a 4k projector or thoughts are welcomed.
Ok guys, I now that was a very long winded post, had a lot I wanted to say I guess. Hopefully it didn’t bore you all to tears and the pics helped a little!!