Originally Posted by biga6761
Just wanted to swing by and say I see what your doing Bug and I love it man. Very nice choice on the seating and great work getting the oh so nessacery Buttkickers mounted. Very clean and neat solution. Glad to hear how much you are digging what the new seats bring to your experience. I think it's cool that the new seats can add that little something extra that you found they add. Seating is so important for so many reasons and I'm glad your investment is paying off so well.
Also read about the tactile upgrade coming your way in the form of more Buttkickers and MA's for the 2nd seat. I would feel remiss if I didn't at least mention the temptation you are going to face once the new TT gear comes in to try adding them to your seat instead of the 2nd one. I'm here to say, do it man, I have always wondered what 4 Buttkicker LFE's and 4 MA's would feel like on one chair and I think you(like myself) like TT's just enough to try before resigning them to their permanent home in the 2nd seat. Before you say hell no I'm crazy, just think of the tactile headroom, never bottom a Buttkicker again, even on the biggest of effects under 10hz. And do I even need to mention 4 MA's, I mean come on. And just think you could have a chance at shaking your brain hard enough to hallucinate or even find a new level of tactile glory that could potentially negate eating or even sex. LMAO
All joking aside, you are one step closer brother and as always making it look great every step of the way homey. Keep up the awesome work. I look forward to your progress and write up of installing new TT's. I'm definitely interested in whether or not you find the new MA's stronger than the old ones or if your old ones are actually working properly or not like you suspected.
Nice decision too. I know I pushed for you to go Atmos as soon as possible but I also agree with your decision on the TT's and that the foundation takes priority
to us card carrying Bassheadaholics. Haha You really couldn't go wrong either way.
Keep us posted brother, in the eyes of this humble hillbilly you're, as usual, killin it.
Hey thanks Biga, I appreciate it!!
I can always count on you for support, a good laugh, and to nudge me a little further in ways to try and push the envelope a little more in this HT craziness
About the 4 MAs and 4 BK LFE's per seat - could be absolutely freaking insane! Maybe even enough to make me hallucinate in a new found level of tactile glory and potentially negate eating or even sex like you say ..LOL!!!!
Speaking of, me and the wife had a 3 day get away this weekend for her birthday. My folks watched our daughter for us while we took a trip and stayed at a really cool resort. They usually always try to do that for us on her birthday and anniversary every year, which is very cool of them. Probably a little more info than you want to know here, but hey you brought up eating and sex
(definitely a couple of the finer things in life IMO), the food was beyond amazing (we love to eat fantastic food, who doesn't right!?) and well, the other probably just goes without saying with a good getaway and good eats (that can be an aphrodisiac in itself)
Anyway where I'm going with this is, we were talking about how euphoric these two things can be and I had to add in that great HT bass and TR can rank right up there with it and be very euphoric as well, and is probably one of the main reasons I'm so addicted to it
Who knows, maybe with 4 and 4 per chair, it'll even go beyond comparison
If it does surpass, I wont tell her that though, I might be in a bit of trouble LOL
Seriously though, it really could be spectacular on a whole new level, then again, maybe not since 2 and 2 per can be pretty crazy and the whole diminishing returns thing once you get to a certain point. But I will say that going from 1 BK LFE to 2 makes a VERY noticeable difference in feel, even when only running 1 BK turned up to the level that 2 together can produce (said another way - two at a little lower levels to make the same level as one turned up a bit more). The same is true with going from 1 Crowson MA to 2 MAs. I tried both the BK's only going from 1 to 2 and also the same with the MA's only. Big difference in fullness and power and the feeling it creates. The same goes when combining the MAs with the BK's. I tried this as well. Partially because I was initially thinking about just running either the MAs only or the BK's only with these new seats or splitting up my 2 MAs and 2 BK's between the two seats, giving each seat 1 MA and 1 BK LFE. But no, too big of a performance hit and diminished feeling they create doing it that way.
So with all these different configs with the MA's and BKs, I did quite a lot of subjective testing on hard tile floor and carpet over pad (I did do some objective as well, but way more subjective). I'd step up through tones starting in single digits up through about 30hz, as well as some of my favorite movie demo clips. This will let you know right quick what you like best and what is king (along with there differences, minor and major). Granted, like you brought up about what I was saying before, my MA's may be lagging a little compared to some of the other guys (ie coolrda, Nalleh, etc) for whatever reason (maybe a bit faulty or something not quite right with them etc), IDK. That said, the MA's do still feel great, its just that my 2 BK's will stomp all over my 2 MAs when it comes to power and a certain physical feel they can induce. I really do hope that the new ones will have more power and be closer to my BK's. That said, the two combined (BK's and MAs) are most definitely better with both running together, whether or not my MA's may or may not be performing like they should be.
So, like you and
say, I'll be real interested as well to see if the new ones feel any different and have more power. I've almost boxed them up a couple of times and sent them in to have Randy check them just to make sure everything was working properly with them. Now with the new ones coming, it'll make it very easy for me to tell right away. It's not like the 2 MA's I have now are bad, they still feel great, especially on the upper end over about 27hz, they just don't come close in the power and feel what the BK LFE's generate when pushed to a little higher levels (or even at normal levels, but especially higher levels) in that 10-27hz range. But they do feel very realistic like a sub, I'll give'm that. I just hope the new one will be closer in power to the BK LFE's in that 10-27hz. We'll find out soon. Would be a real easy fix and a win win if the new ones are more powerful and all I had to do was send in my older ones for a tune or whatever. That said, even it that's just how the MA's should feel, I'm perfectly happy with the way the two combine together.
So to give you a bit of an example of what I'm talking about between the way the 2 BK LFE's by themselves feel compared to the way the 2 MAs by themselves feel, here is one of many scenes in a lot of the better bass movies that really drives this difference home for me. Take this time stamp in Batman VS Superman where Ben Affleck is driving that car through the city in the first chapter, right where he drives through the fire (Time Stamp: 6:00 through 6:06). I ran VibSensor with both BK LFE's only and both MAs only (no subs this time in the mix). This is about where I would run them listening at about -15mv with subs about 8-10db hot with no DEQ since I run my BKs and MAs through my Oppo and control their intensity with the volume control (about 85 percent out of 100). The two graphs look way more similar than different, granted the BK's graph is a touch higher in areas, but not much. Even though they look very similar in the graphs for the most part, the difference in feel that the BK's produce compared to the MAs, is pretty drastic. Not really the higher end above 30-35hz, but lower. Subjectively, the BK's are crazy and kind of make me squirm in my seat and gives me a panicky type of feeling (panic might not sound so good, but its awesome) with a very cool internal type of pressure feel, and kind of makes me feel it somewhat sharply in my chest as well (by the way the BK's movement is by design I guess), even though this is not midbass. The feeling to me is crazy and kind of freaky, and I absolutely love it. I can not get this with the MAs, no matter how high I turn them up (just little more to match the BK's graph, or even higher). Because the intensity level where I did this objective and subjective testing, they still had more in the tank that they could give and can be cranked up more to try to get that same feel, but to no avail. Also my subs don't quite give me as an intense of feeling that the BK's do either on scenes like this, although if I turn them up and run them hot enough, its closer. Now all of them combined, is best, but I'm only comparing the MAs to the BK's here. Also of note here, is that only 1 BK LFE turned up enough to make up the difference from what 2 at a little lower level would give, wont give me this feel either (or just barely maybe), but two ..oh man! So that said, maybe 4 MA's per chair would ..hmmmm, but damn that is getting expensive for one seat
Here are the two graphs in comparison for that BvsS Time Stamp (6:00-6) with the VibSensor using a 5lb bag of rice on the phone in recline mode (this was on my old chair, but still very similar feeling and looking in my new seat, besides some of the differences I was describing earlier between the feel between the old and new seat - but still more similar than different). In these readings on the old recliner, they read a little higher between 10-15hz in comparison to the frequencies above, but that's ok since both the MA's and the BK's by themselves have this (a bit of a peak in my TR response in the 10-15hz region).
2 MA's only per the one recliner:
2 BK LFE's only per recliner:
IDK, we'll see what the new MA's feel like compared to the new ones this week. You guys give this time stamp a go on your system and see what it feel like. It's pretty bad ass feeling if you can get the TR intense enough.
I'll definitely try 4 MAs per seat, that'll be an easy test since the MA's are so easy slip under the legs. Now the BK's, not so easy. I really would like to try 4 BK's per seat as well, just to see, since going from 1 to 2 made such a big difference (I'm afraid this may ruin me as well though - damn you Biga!! haha
) ...nah just kidding. Also like you say, more headroom, because there are some hardcore scenes I can bottom out my dual BK's if I'm not careful. I may not be able to get two more in these seats though. I felt like getting two in there was pushing it. We'll see.
Anyway, thanks for swinging by and your thoughts on it all! It's always a pleasure reading you posts. You make me feel like I might actually be doing something right with all this stuff, at least for a couple junkies like us LOL