10 Ways to Stream or Download Music - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 109 Old 08-28-2015, 04:54 PM
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Personally,
1,000+ CD collection converted to FLAC on my home server.

Oh, and my son uses Rhapsody to listen to Wierd Al when we are in the car.
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post #62 of 109 Old 08-29-2015, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by lespurgeon View Post
Personally,
1,000+ CD collection converted to FLAC on my home server.
.
So what do you use to organize and play your music library?
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post #63 of 109 Old 08-30-2015, 12:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post
So what do you use to organize and play your music library?
And why do you force your son to use a download service to listen to Al?

hmmm...I thought I had quoted lespurgeon, not sure how I quoted you now that I come back and look.

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post #64 of 109 Old 08-30-2015, 03:08 PM
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So what do you use to organize and play your music library?
My guess is JRiver.
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post #65 of 109 Old 08-31-2015, 12:41 PM
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Hey so Imagic,

I may have mis-read you in this thread.

You seem to say compressed music and high rez music sound the same.

I think maybe you mean properly compressed music can sound like a CD source... ?

Throwing out the compression idea for a moment, I don't have an amazing audiophile setup but to me there is a large difference between for example CD and SACD. For example, I love Pink Floyd and the SACD of DSotM was amazing to me when I first heard it and didn't at all resemble the CD... In this case there is the added value of having a surround sound mix.

Now I have several Blu Ray Audio recordings and none of them could be confused with CD (or worse, compressed audio streaming)... maybe the stereo 24/96 ... could throw some people on an AB test.. maybe .... I don't listen to the hi rez stereo stuff enough since I have a 7.1 system and like the 5.1 mixes.

I've head the stereo hi rez Led Zep releases though and they sound clearly superior to me than any previous version. (Of course, they were remastered again for the 20th odd time which was part of the process.)
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post #66 of 109 Old 08-31-2015, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Hey so Imagic,

I may have mis-read you in this thread.

You seem to say compressed music and high rez music sound the same.

I think maybe you mean properly compressed music can sound like a CD source... ?

Throwing out the compression idea for a moment, I don't have an amazing audiophile setup but to me there is a large difference between for example CD and SACD. For example, I love Pink Floyd and the SACD of DSotM was amazing to me when I first heard it and didn't at all resemble the CD... In this case there is the added value of having a surround sound mix.

Now I have several Blu Ray Audio recordings and none of them could be confused with CD (or worse, compressed audio streaming)... maybe the stereo 24/96 ... could throw some people on an AB test.. maybe .... I don't listen to the hi rez stereo stuff enough since I have a 7.1 system and like the 5.1 mixes.

I've head the stereo hi rez Led Zep releases though and they sound clearly superior to me than any previous version. (Of course, they were remastered again for the 20th odd time which was part of the process.)
As soon as you remaster or otherwise change the sound of the album, sound quality comparisons between formats become practically irrelevant. The issue is if you can hear the difference between 320 kbps AAC, CD, and Hi-res if the source material is otherwise identical aside from the hi-res files containing ultrasonic information.

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post #67 of 109 Old 08-31-2015, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
As soon as you remaster or otherwise change the sound of the album, sound quality comparisons between formats become practically irrelevant. The issue is if you can hear the difference between 320 kbps AAC, CD, and Hi-res if the source material is otherwise identical aside from the hi-res files containing ultrasonic information.
Well,... in my case much of the high rez that I have is also available in surround sound... And there's not much similarity between the surround sound and stereo even from a accurate sweet spot.

Music tends to be produced on several tracks ( at least 4 ... sometimes 8,... 16... sometimes more) and having access to the original multi track recordings to produce surround sound versions results in some of the most amazing audio I've ever heard.

Plus,... you have made several comparisons of Vudu and Blu Ray so I'm sure your not like deaf and blind and stuff.

I think you also mentioned listening to the multi channel version of Pink Floyd's The Endless River over at Atmos system... sounds like the kind of thing that would lead to up sampling or something ... but regardless... I think you have heard some of the blu ray audio releases and you can't suggest an MP3 can compete ????... or ...do you?

-BRian
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post #68 of 109 Old 08-31-2015, 05:40 PM
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Am I the only person who pirates their music?

Last edited by Babylon7; 08-31-2015 at 06:06 PM.
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post #69 of 109 Old 08-31-2015, 06:05 PM
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Am I the only person who pirates their music?
Hopefully. Why would you steal at all, but especially from people (artists) you like?
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post #70 of 109 Old 08-31-2015, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Well,... in my case much of the high rez that I have is also available in surround sound... And there's not much similarity between the surround sound and stereo even from a accurate sweet spot.

Music tends to be produced on several tracks ( at least 4 ... sometimes 8,... 16... sometimes more) and having access to the original multi track recordings to produce surround sound versions results in some of the most amazing audio I've ever heard.

Plus,... you have made several comparisons of Vudu and Blu Ray so I'm sure your not like deaf and blind and stuff.

I think you also mentioned listening to the multi channel version of Pink Floyd's The Endless River over at Atmos system... sounds like the kind of thing that would lead to up sampling or something ... but regardless... I think you have heard some of the blu ray audio releases and you can't suggest an MP3 can compete ????... or ...do you?

-BRian
Let's just say there's some bitrate—I'm not sure what it is exactly—where audio takes on a level of fidelity beyond which humans cannot hear a difference. If you apply that to as many channels as a format demands (two? eight?) then you are done. Blu-ray exceeds that threshold, which is commendable.
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post #71 of 109 Old 09-05-2015, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
I think you also mentioned listening to the multi channel version of Pink Floyd's The Endless River over at Atmos system... sounds like the kind of thing that would lead to up sampling or something ... but regardless... I think you have heard some of the blu ray audio releases and you can't suggest an MP3 can compete ????... or ...do you?

-BRian
Nothing beats your own blind ABX test. You'll find plenty of resources over at the great HydrogenAudio forums.
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post #72 of 109 Old 09-06-2015, 12:04 PM
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Nothing beats your own blind ABX test. You'll find plenty of resources over at the great HydrogenAudio forums.
I should do that for the stereo 24/96 stuff I have versus the CD audio.

I wouldn't have any trouble discerning the multi-channel though. Even if I was in the perfect stereo sweet spot I would instantly recognize the multi channel versions. This is maybe partly because my surrounds are placed for movies (high on the sides) instead of for multi channel music.

(And I don't have separate surround sound systems for music and movies... it's just one HT.)
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
I should do that for the stereo 24/96 stuff I have versus the CD audio.

I wouldn't have any trouble discerning the multi-channel though. Even if I was in the perfect stereo sweet spot I would instantly recognize the multi channel versions. This is maybe partly because my surrounds are placed for movies (high on the sides) instead of for multi channel music.

(And I don't have separate surround sound systems for music and movies... it's just one HT.)
Why would you compare 2ch to multi-ch materials at all? Apples and oranges. Just use 2ch/stereo. Foobar2000 has an ABX comparator tool you can use easily enough and its freeware
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post #74 of 109 Old 09-06-2015, 02:18 PM
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Why would you compare 2ch to multi-ch materials at all? Apples and oranges. Just use 2ch/stereo. Foobar2000 has an ABX comparator tool you can use easily enough and its freeware
Oh,... sorry guess it's a tangent.... On the topic of streaming music the notion that like MP3's sound as good as lossless high rez audio came up somehow... (which I do not agree with.)... Then, Well,... I just couldn't believe anyone would think that....

So... I started suggesting that was impossible...

Then, someone suggested AB testing....

Anyways... Just so happens almost all of my High Rez Audio is availalble in multichannel and that's how I prefer to listen to it.

I have listened a little to the 24/96 stereo versions and maybe .. maybe I would not be able to tell them from CD in a blind test... maybe .. I honestly don't know... I typically listen just to the multi channel versions which I find truly magical.

(Does that clear it up at all.... )

-Brian
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post #75 of 109 Old 09-10-2015, 10:31 AM
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Multi-channel - YES! Need more sources...please
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post #76 of 109 Old 09-10-2015, 11:14 AM
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If people would like to download free legal music, you might want to check your local libray. Many have arrangements with Freegal where you can download legal mp3s (most are 256K bit rates) for free. Usually 3 to 5 per week with many popular artists.
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post #77 of 109 Old 09-11-2015, 09:28 AM
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@ boguspomp & Pixel Dude


There are absolutely instances where a new release of an old recording (or just different format releases of a new recording) sound better in their "high resolution" version vs. the CD release. But the difference you hear has nothing to do with it being a higher sampling rate or a higher bit depth. Instead, what you are hearing are two different masters. (. . .)


So rather than focusing on the container, and attributing any differences in sound to the container, what I am hoping is that we will start to focus on what is being put into those containers.
Well said. What Pono, in particular, is doing, is using the format claims as the sales pitch while doing the useful work in the masters. (Neil Young constantly boasts about how when he plays MP3 and Pono versions side-by-side everyone prefers the Pono version, but never mentions the actual MP3 settings or whether they are from the same master).

Note that this is basically the same approach used for decades by MFSL -- all the marketing focused on the magic of "half-speed mastering" but their best results always came from access to original tapes and careful disc mastering.

I'll also note that even great mastering is going to be useless in many cases where the overcompression and earbud-ready-production is inherent in the recording itself. I guess in some cases the brick-wall compression is being added in the mastering (particularly in "improved" remasters of older releases) but I think increasingly it's there from the earliest steps.
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post #78 of 109 Old 09-11-2015, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Well said. What Pono, in particular, is doing, is using the format claims as the sales pitch while doing the useful work in the masters. (Neil Young constantly boasts about how when he plays MP3 and Pono versions side-by-side everyone prefers the Pono version, but never mentions the actual MP3 settings or whether they are from the same master).

Note that this is basically the same approach used for decades by MFSL -- all the marketing focused on the magic of "half-speed mastering" but their best results always came from access to original tapes and careful disc mastering.

I'll also note that even great mastering is going to be useless in many cases where the overcompression and earbud-ready-production is inherent in the recording itself. I guess in some cases the brick-wall compression is being added in the mastering (particularly in "improved" remasters of older releases) but I think increasingly it's there from the earliest steps.
These games have been going on for a long time. Published in Stereophile in 1963... 52 years ago!!!

"But Mr. Lieberson is right in asserting that Dynagroove is inimical to musical integrity, for not only does it constantly "rearrange" the original bass/treble balance of the music, it evidently excuses the use of more dynamic compression than we have encountered since the latter days of the 78rpm disc. If this constitutes "an evolution in the art of recording," to quote RCA Victor, then we are obliged to incite the industry to counter-evolution, for this is one kind of hanky-panky that no home-type tone control will ever be able to compensate for."
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit...B7GdPg7vKZV.99


And

"For the American record manufacturers, we suggest a premium line of stereo disc releases, paralleling the releases they now put out for the mass market, but cut with full dynamic range, full frequency range, and miked so as to produce the best stereo illusion when reproduced through speakers with adequate spacing between them. We, personally, would be happy to pay a buck or so more for recordings that would justify the expenditures we have made on high-fidelity equipment, and if the premium line wouldn't play on the mass-market phonographs, the customers might start asking some of the right questions. Such as, why won't a premium disc play on my Magnificent Console?"
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit...B7GdPg7vKZV.99
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post #79 of 109 Old 09-11-2015, 09:51 AM
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Youtube does have very good sound for some stuff; very surprising to me.
YouTube recommends uploading using 384bits/s AAC which is pretty great (should be indistinguishable from source CD, though I don't want to open that argument up). I believe this is the format that most "official" or label-sourced audio clips are using.

The problem is that they accept audio in almost any format or resolution, and only a small portion of music on the service is uploaded with optimum encoding.

The result is that the experience is highly variable, especially for "playlists" or autoplay where you might go from one clip with perfect audio to another that is a low-res upload of a cassette recording.

Last edited by JGM; 09-11-2015 at 09:56 AM.
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post #80 of 109 Old 09-11-2015, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
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YouTube recommends uploading using 384bits/s AAC which is pretty great (should be indistinguishable from source CD, though I don't want to open that argument up). I believe this is the format that most "official" or label-sourced audio clips are using.

The problem is that they accept audio in almost any format or resolution, and only a small portion of music on the service is uploaded with optimum encoding.

The result is that the experience is highly variable, especially for "playlists" or autoplay where you might go from one clip with perfect audio to another that is a low-res upload of a cassette recording.
The quality of the YouTube music is also due to the source material & psycho-acoustic perception of either in stereo mode or multi-channel equipment.

A question is whether a person prefers performance "quality" or sound quality. I do watch & enjoy old videos of operas that were not optimum is this times; but the performance was very good despite the video & sound qualities. Same with jazz performances.

I also like much material recorded in the 1950's & 1960's & a few recorded in the 1930's. The sonic qualities are not comparable to what can be produces now.

I think that some like "vinyl" over CDs is due to the sound engineer and/or the producer to mess with digital CD because they can do so.
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post #81 of 109 Old 09-12-2015, 09:43 AM
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On youtube, I can find 20 or more versions of the same song & grab the ones I like,
Such as: extended versions, remixes, cover versions, higher quality versions, Live concerts, the different videos.
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post #82 of 109 Old 09-22-2015, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post
This post could not have come at a better time. I recently signed up for the free 3 month trial with Google Music. I am trying to figure out the best way to send music to my HT. I have All cast premium app and it sends all sorts of content from my Samsung Note4 phone to my Apple TV2, everything except the Google music. I don't want to buy a chrome cast.
Does anyone know of another way to send Google music to my HT system? Below my post is my HT equipment.

Thanks

Paul
Well, I read the rest of the thread, and, unless I missed it, nobody answered your question. Which is a shame because I'm looking for an answer too! I have a Denon X2200W, so I can Bluetooth directly from my phone, but I have gotten Bluetooth dropouts in other contexts and I don't like depending on it. I'm considering getting a Chromecast, and it's cheap enough that if it works, I'm OK with it... what's your objection? My next choice is a Nexus Player. In fact, I'm sure that's what I'd use if it had an Ethernet connector. One more level up is the Nvidia Android TV box, but that seems ridiculously expensive if all you want to do is music. But, I understand Google is about to announce a specific music casting system, which should not be confused with Google Cast: http://9to5google.com/2015/09/18/exc...kers/#comments But I have to admit that I find this story a little confusing and am just going to hold up until Google explains to me just what this thing is.
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post #83 of 109 Old 09-23-2015, 04:46 AM
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Greetings gurus...

Can seniors here point me to a thread(s) or url(s) that can help optimize process for taking/ripping (dbpoweramp...?) a music collection (CD's) to correct loss less format and the play them to AVR (serve...? - JRiver or iTunes...)? Where does a NAS (just a storage repository, correct...?) come in - I've set aside a 5 TB drive just for this, but is a NAS something more than 'just a drive'...?

For example, I have a Denon x3200 AVR and computers which are both Win (10), primary and Mac (iMac) secondary. My Denon x3200 shows up as a device on WIN 10 system - but when 'media server' selected the files show up as 'empty'...

Hey - I'm sure this seems pretty funny - but I'm lost in wilderness of a new media adventure...!

Any tips, or if I'm asking in wrong forum, please advise and thank you in advance...!
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post #84 of 109 Old 09-24-2015, 11:23 AM
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Which is the best service for hard rock/metal variety? I have found places such as Pandora seem to repeat a ton of stuff.
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post #85 of 109 Old 09-24-2015, 12:00 PM
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Which is the best service for hard rock/metal variety? I have found places such as Pandora seem to repeat a ton of stuff.
If you mean free, not sure. And I assume you want discovery -- try Slacker.

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post #86 of 109 Old 09-24-2015, 12:06 PM
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If you mean free, not sure. And I assume you want discovery -- try Slacker.
Is the pay slacker better than the free version? I have only ever tried the free one.
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post #87 of 109 Old 09-24-2015, 12:59 PM
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Is the pay slacker better than the free version? I have only ever tried the free one.
If I ever used the free one, it was a long time ago.

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post #88 of 109 Old 09-24-2015, 01:17 PM
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If I ever used the free one, it was a long time ago.
Thanks for the info
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post #89 of 109 Old 09-25-2015, 03:10 PM
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Two quick comments... Amazon Prime Music is not available on Sonos. For high quality streaming it is hard to beat Deezer Elite
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post #90 of 109 Old 10-02-2015, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
You are right, Youtube is a huge source of streaming music, although some of it skirts the edge of ethics when it comes to copyright (i.e. people posting unauthorized copies of songs and collecting ad revenue). But yeah, I've had evenings of Youtube-fueled music discovery. And no doubt Youtube is also a great platform for legit publishing. I con;t quite forgive Youtube for creating Justin Bieber. Thanks for the suggestion though, it definitely deserves a spot on the list!
What audio quality are people getting from You Tube? It seems all over the map to me with low quality dominating.
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