Dolby Vision Support basically Non existent - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 01-08-2018, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Dolby Vision Support basically Non existent

For quite a while now its been baffling to me that there are supposed to be two widely accepted HDR formats HDR 10 and Dolby Vision and yet there are so few available pieces of hardware to watch your Dolby Vision content with.

There are only a couple of UHD players capable of outputting Dolby Vision content including the Oppo 203 but these players cost just shy of $1000. The LG UP970 player that was advertising support for Dolby Vision keep pushing back their firmware update to implement it after first releasing the Dolby Vision update back in June 2017 but then later pulling it and deleting its support with later firmware updates.

No Samsung, LG or Sony UHD player support Dolby Vision but all support HDR 10. But you can get Dolby Vison support via Netflix.

What is the reason for this?? Surely Dolby would like their new HDR format at the forefront of UHD market and yet they basically have ghosted in terms of an appearance and its super frustrating when you do have a TV that supports it but unless you wanna spend $1000 or watch compressed content Dolby Vision is nowhere to be had.

Its seriously weird that the vast majority of people are not getting to experience the superior HDR format.
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post #2 of 24 Old 01-08-2018, 05:13 PM
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Apple TV 4K supports DV and also has some content. Soon Sony's sets with X1 Extreme will get DV update.
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post #3 of 24 Old 01-08-2018, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck Sonido View Post
Apple TV 4K supports DV and also has some content. Soon Sony's sets with X1 Extreme will get DV update.
Im referring more to the UHD bluray player support. If you want the best possible picture quality then you need to watch via physical media which is far superior to streamed content. You really notice the compression in dark scenes.

After spending almost $5000 to get into an OLED TV it is upsetting that there are so few players supporting what is the superior HDR format.
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post #4 of 24 Old 01-09-2018, 07:42 AM
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BUT, the OPPO units are amazing and you don't really need anything else. I guess it'd be nice if it was cheaper but it's not unreasonable. Considering how superior it is to all the other players on the market.
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post #5 of 24 Old 01-09-2018, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabrit View Post
For quite a while now its been baffling to me that there are supposed to be two widely accepted HDR formats HDR 10 and Dolby Vision and yet there are so few available pieces of hardware to watch your Dolby Vision content with.

There are only a couple of UHD players capable of outputting Dolby Vision content including the Oppo 203 but these players cost just shy of $1000. The LG UP970 player that was advertising support for Dolby Vision keep pushing back their firmware update to implement it after first releasing the Dolby Vision update back in June 2017 but then later pulling it and deleting its support with later firmware updates.

No Samsung, LG or Sony UHD player support Dolby Vision but all support HDR 10. But you can get Dolby Vison support via Netflix.

What is the reason for this?? Surely Dolby would like their new HDR format at the forefront of UHD market and yet they basically have ghosted in terms of an appearance and its super frustrating when you do have a TV that supports it but unless you wanna spend $1000 or watch compressed content Dolby Vision is nowhere to be had.

Its seriously weird that the vast majority of people are not getting to experience the superior HDR format.
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Originally Posted by dabrit View Post
Im referring more to the UHD bluray player support. If you want the best possible picture quality then you need to watch via physical media which is far superior to streamed content. You really notice the compression in dark scenes.

After spending almost $5000 to get into an OLED TV it is upsetting that there are so few players supporting what is the superior HDR format.
The Oppos and Cambridge are the only players currently supporting DV. The LG 970 will get it via firmware eventually, as will the Philips 7502.

CES has just started. Panasonic announced DV in their new 820. Sony just announced DV in their new 700. Philips announced their 7503 will also have DV.

You should ask about DV players in this thread https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...er-thread.html
And just read the Blu-ray Players forum in general.
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post #6 of 24 Old 01-10-2018, 01:04 PM
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Dolby Vision has been a bit of a mess regarding its roll out. The UP970 debacle has disillusioned many on the UP970 owners thread.

I think HDR10+ will quickly replace Dolby Vision, mainly because Dolby seems to have done an absolutely terrible job of getting it to market. Given the difficulty in obtaining a DV capable TV and player and the money you currently need to spend on something like the Oppo, plus the relative scarcity of DV media, it's hard to see Dolby Vision as anything other than a disaster.

If the industry can do a better job with HDR10+, Dolby Vision will become a distant memory.
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post #7 of 24 Old 01-10-2018, 01:33 PM
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This is what happens when optional formats try to become de facto standards. The HDR space has one default format -- HDR10. Every HDR-enabled device supports HDR10. Everything else is optional.

Aside from HDR10, the market is unsettled because both DV and HDR10+ are optional formats with varying degrees of industry support and added cost. Dolby is marketing DV as an indispensable upgrade. If they convince enough of the buying public, then it forces the market to adopt DV, even if it's not a mandatory part of the UHD specs. Samsung is a holdout, and they're a big enough player to at least create some uncertainty over DV's market prospects.

This is not much different than when DTS was originally trying to gain traction in the market. When the DVD format was finalized, Dolby Digital and PCM were the only audio formats baked into the spec. DTS was optional. But, DTS managed to get enough of the public to buy in that DVD players and AV receivers could only compete if they supported DTS.

Dolby and Samsung (the main proponent of HDR10+) are both trying to force a similar market compromise. It ultimately boils down to the tradeoff between the added cost (not just royalties, but meeting performance specs as well) and whether the feature generates added sales or defections from competing brands. This all takes time, and while the market is in flux, nothing's a sure bet. The slow uptake with DV reflects the unsettled state of the market.
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post #8 of 24 Old 01-10-2018, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post
Dolby and Samsung (the main proponent of HDR10+) are both trying to force a similar market compromise. It ultimately boils down to the tradeoff between the added cost (not just royalties, but meeting performance specs as well) and whether the feature generates added sales or defections from competing brands. This all takes time, and while the market is in flux, nothing's a sure bet. The slow uptake with DV reflects the unsettled state of the market.
The reality is that 95% of consumers who turn up at the store to buy a new TV have no idea about the competing HDR standards. They load up Netfix and don't have any idea if they're watching HDR10 or DV. Unlike VHS vs BETA, this "war" is largely happening between manufacturers and content providers and is completely transparent to mom and pop consumers. AV enthusiasts like us are aware, but really, we just get to watch from the side-lines - we have little ability to influence the outcome, as at best, we are 5% of the market.

Ultimately, we will all lose, as it seems to me that the likes of Samsung and LG are taking sides, and whomever's product we choose, we will miss out on a certain percentage of the best quality video available.

As you say, the market is in flux, but with the rate of change in technology accelerating all the time, it will always be in flux. "Standards" used to last for decades, now they seem to change very rapidly and it's almost impossible to make the right decision. I guess the best we can do is to look at the formats supported by the source we consume the most (e.g. DV from Netflix) and pick the product that currently supports it. Not an easy game to play.
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post #9 of 24 Old 01-11-2018, 12:19 PM
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There is well over 90% chance that the TV you buy in 2018 will be either Sony, Samsung, Vizio, LG or TCL. Only 1 of those will have HDR+. All others will have HDR10 or DV. To me, HDR+ can't beat DV unless other TV's start including it and I don't see that happening in the near future.
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post #10 of 24 Old 01-11-2018, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SiliconAudio View Post
As you say, the market is in flux, but with the rate of change in technology accelerating all the time, it will always be in flux. "Standards" used to last for decades, now they seem to change very rapidly and it's almost impossible to make the right decision. I guess the best we can do is to look at the formats supported by the source we consume the most (e.g. DV from Netflix) and pick the product that currently supports it. Not an easy game to play.
The market is in flux only because we have a food fight going on over optional formats. HDR10 is the actual standard because every HDR-capable device supports it, as does every Ultra BD title. DV and HDR10+ are each vying to become de facto standards, and that does indeed create some degree of market uncertainty in the meantime while both formats ramp up.
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post #11 of 24 Old 01-19-2018, 12:26 AM
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You'd think after DVD being so successful because there weren't competing formats they'd have learned their lesson... but oh no

HD DVD vs Blu Ray , SACD vs DVD-A , DTS vs Dolby Digital , now this HDR formats debacle..

If anything its even more complex with the hdr formats !

Apple will update the appletv to support HDR10+ soon

Looks like HDR10+ will be the de facto standard after all ..?

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post #12 of 24 Old 01-19-2018, 06:25 AM
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The latest saga on Sony's update to DV adds to the mess. On their high end TV's they have been promising DV since last year's CES; when implemted it turns out that it only works on streaming apps, not thru any HDMI connection. Various stories as to whose fault it is; but not very good communication regarding the topic; correction, etc.

As an owner of Oppo 203; Sony ZD9, and Yamaha 2070 (all supposedly firmware updated for DV), as well as an apple TV, the situation is very frustrating. Hopefully it will get worked out, but this will depend on multiple companies getting their act together. There is apparently also a bug of some kind with LG displays and DV in certain situations.

I am curious if devices that are DV and HDR10 capable could be upgraded to add HDR10+; no one has said much about that.
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post #13 of 24 Old 01-19-2018, 12:28 PM
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All the while...

There are really only a few Tv's that actually have the brightness capability to get any real impact from these formats

Does that mean the market doesn't really care?

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post #14 of 24 Old 01-21-2018, 11:42 AM
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Im looking for some Dolby Vision demos to download and play on my TCL P. I found an LG DV demo with a TS format. My TCL recognizes the file but gets stuck.

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post #15 of 24 Old 01-23-2018, 10:36 AM
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I'm waiting for all of this to settle out (DV and HDR10+). I purchased a Philips 7302(Sam's club version of 7502) late 2017 hoping for a DV upgrade soon. Meantime this player would freeze several movies and so back to Sam's it went! Thanks to the "Great Deals" forum page here, I purchased an LG UP807 from my local Walmart for $50. So far no freezing and the picture is great. This will get me through till format war ends.
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post #16 of 24 Old 02-12-2018, 04:28 AM
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I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I don't think I am even seeing an HDR picture, and I KNOW I won't be seeing a Dolby Vision picture anytime soon either. I have a new SONY XBRX55930e, SONY UBP-X800 and a Yamaha RX-A1070 and I'm pretty sure I haven't seen anything tell me I'm in HDR. I'd LOVE to know what the fuss is all about!

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post #17 of 24 Old 01-02-2019, 01:13 PM
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Hello all,



Did Sony ever release Dolby Vision/HGL update for X85C TV ? If so where can I find it ?


Thanks,
N
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post #18 of 24 Old 01-22-2019, 11:59 AM
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A year after this thread's OP, DV has made a few strides. N/A to me. There'll always be something. I'm happy with 4K HDR10.

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post #19 of 24 Old 05-20-2019, 04:23 PM
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A year after this thread's OP, DV has made a few strides. N/A to me. There'll always be something. I'm happy with 4K HDR10.
DV is supposed to be 12 bit but current implementations are only 10 bit
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post #20 of 24 Old 05-24-2019, 08:11 AM
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DV is supposed to be 12 bit but current implementations are only 10 bit
because no 12 bit panels exist yet
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post #21 of 24 Old 05-24-2019, 08:40 AM
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How quickly things changed after OP wrote this post. It's looking more and more like Dolby Vision will win this format war. With Samsung, the last major non-DV hold out, for at least a few more months.

A story on Dolby Vision winning the last remaining battlefields, I just read yesterday here.

I hardly play discs anymore, but I did just pick up last year's Sony Dolby Vision Blu Ray player on the cheap (UBP-X700) as new models land. I also couldn't resist the 65" LG B8 for $1600 a month ago. And my Denon AVR got its DV enabling firmware update like more than a year ago I think.

DV quickly became so ubiquitous across content and devices over the past 18+ months that you no longer have to buy the bleeding edge newest model thing to get it. Quite the impressive land grab IMHO, for better or for worse.
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post #22 of 24 Old 05-24-2019, 10:35 AM
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Reviews are yet another nail in the HDR10+ coffin

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How quickly things changed after OP wrote this post. It's looking more and more like Dolby Vision will win this format war. With Samsung, the last major non-DV hold out, for at least a few more months.

A story on Dolby Vision winning the last remaining battlefields, I just read yesterday here.

I hardly play discs anymore, but I did just pick up last year's Sony Dolby Vision Blu Ray player on the cheap (UBP-X700) as new models land. I also couldn't resist the 65" LG B8 for $1600 a month ago. And my Denon AVR got its DV enabling firmware update like more than a year ago I think.

DV quickly became so ubiquitous across content and devices over the past 18+ months that you no longer have to buy the bleeding edge newest model thing to get it. Quite the impressive land grab IMHO, for better or for worse.
If you watch Vincent Teoh on Youtube (he posts his calibration assessments of various TVs and HDR formats), he concluded significant improvements of image quality for DV over HDR, but barely noticeable improvements between HDR10+ and HDR. Sooooo... hmmm
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post #23 of 24 Old 05-24-2019, 05:55 PM
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If you watch Vincent Teoh on Youtube (he posts his calibration assessments of various TVs and HDR formats), he concluded significant improvements of image quality for DV over HDR, but barely noticeable improvements between HDR10+ and HDR. Sooooo... hmmm
When contemplating my LG B8 purchase, I did do some deep dives into DV vs HDR10 vs HDR10+ online comparisons (my recently demoted TV is a 2015 HDR10 Samsung JS9000). I trust Vincent Teoh on his technical analysis, and there was an obvious difference in every back and forth OLED screenshots analysis I found somewhere of various scenes in DV vs HDR10/+.

But... while there was a clear difference in every example, I think some would argue which example was more visually pleasing (at least for the screenshots). Each had their strengths and weaknesses in showing high/low details in different scenese.

Not trying to argue any point really, except to continue the point that DV's market grab has impressed me regardless of the quality details and Samsung's market dominance. For the record, I am gushingly pleased by the more natural immersiveness of DV, HDR10 and SDR on my new TV vs the older one.
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post #24 of 24 Old 06-09-2019, 03:29 PM
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As much as Dolby would like, most are not going to buy new equipment so they can access the wonders of Dolby Vision, or HDR10 for that matter. It'll be a major accomplishment to get the remainder of 720p and 1080p TVs replaced by 4K anytime soon. Then the streaming channels must comply. Then the folk who have non-Dolby Vision players and AVRs must comply.

As much as the relatively few Dolby Vision followers would like it to "win" the HDR War, it just won't happen as long as consumers lag, and HDR10 is default for 4K. We may revisit the issue when 8K and 12 bits become the household TV norm.

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