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post #31 of 38 Old 06-13-2020, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by CloudHead View Post
They are already trying to push 8k. At least when 1080 came out it was fully adapted before 4K appeared. 4K is not even fully adapted yet but there is already 8k. Kinda makes me not want to fully invest in 4K
Re 4K, as-good-as-it-got was probably 2015 - 2017. Small window.

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post #32 of 38 Old 06-13-2020, 12:19 PM
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Re 4K, as-good-as-it-got was probably 2015 - 2017. Small window.
And it’s still not fully implemented
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post #33 of 38 Old 06-13-2020, 12:33 PM
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And it’s still not fully implemented
Moot point. Welcome to the electronics industry. No guarantees for 8K or anything else either.

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post #34 of 38 Old 06-14-2020, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by LeisureDave View Post
So I’m sure this issue has been beat to death, but oddly when I search the title of this post nothing really comes up on here.

I am not sold on 4K. I just got a 1080P projector. I sit 11.5ft away from a 100” screen.
The picture looks phenomenal. Could it be better? Sure. Would I really notice with most content? Maybe only side by side comparisons would shine a light on this for me. However, here are a few major issues holding my back from the 4K band wagon.

1) 3D. It doesn’t exist on 4K.
2) Extensive standard DVD library.
I have 400 movies mostly on regular DVDs. The bigger and better a screen you try to display low res content, the worse it looks.
3) not enough content.
While TVs are flying high at 8K we are still slow to the market with 4K content. We are picking up steam but still lacking in general TV and even streaming content. Storage and bandwidth can also create issues with the latter.

So while I will not content the 4K is a technical better picture than 1080, I argue whether I would ultimately be happy with that move.

Convince me otherwise.

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1. 3D is really only good on 80inch + screens which are projectors only. The tiny screens we use for TVs aren't well suited to it, for the best experience. But I agree, 3D in many ways is better than 4K/HDR.
2. If you only watch DVDs, get a Plasma. However, for those of that watch Blurays, Netflix, Disney+ etc. HDR/4K are huge benefits.
3. Are we slow to the market with 4k content or are you slow to the market with 4k content? I don't watch broadcast TV. I game in 4k using my PC. I only watch 4k/HDR Blurays with the very rare 1080p version if its not available. My TV shows upscale from 1080p Blurays to 4k very well. Netflix, Disney Plus, Amazon Prime, Apple TV are all 4K/HDR. 720/480p content is pretty much gone for me now.

Although 8K is definitely a bunch of rubbish with diminishing returns, 4K is well and truly here and has met bandwidth and storage limitations in the current day.
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post #35 of 38 Old 06-15-2020, 03:38 PM
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I mean there is a big gap between what consumer are pushed to buy and what the production world is currently working with and publishing ( TV, streaming, film, game ).

It may sound stupid ( and it is ) but consumer get the tools to watch a resolution that the vast majority of production are not using yet, and are years from using in most case ...

The HD to 4K move is far from being done by TV broadcaster and TV producer, most of the stuff is produced in HD and will keep being broadcasted in HD for years, the cost to upgrade in a world where there is less and less cash make no sens.

For movie, the HD to 4K move went faster, more cash to produce in 4K, easier to distribute in 4K. Now most movie are distributed in 4K, we can consider the film business mostly 4K ready and 4K mature ...

But people where still able to buy 4K TV way before any real content was available from any form of distribution, streaming included. And these early 4K TV are horrible compared to what we have now.

I just bought a 4K TV this years, because I feel like now 4K & HDR is mature, I can enjoy real 4K content on a daily basis.

Of course, TV company need to sell people stuff, so they already moved to 8K even if there is no film production in 8K or 8K distribution as we speak. As always, streaming and download will be the first to offer 8K product, there is youtube video in 8K but ...

In conclusion there is no point to upgrade to something if what you playback is not produced in that resolution. Its useless to be ahead of the game, its cost a fortune to get bad and immature product. As we speak the target for most content is 4k, and the run to 8K will be long for some but shorter for others depending on what you consume. But for the next 5 years, film, gaming & streaming will be the first to push real 8K content, but it will take time, years ...

I think there will be more work towards advancement in HDR than in putting more pixel in the screen ( 8K ). People are not buying 80 or 100 inch 7000$ TV in bulk so the need of 8K is a bit like 3D ...
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post #36 of 38 Old 06-17-2020, 05:00 PM
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There's more to it than simply saying more pixels = more detail. Resolution is just one of a number of factors that go into our perception of detail.

The bit rate is also key. A 4k UHD Blu Ray is undoubtedly more detailed. They have a 100 mbps bit rate VS 40 mbps for a 1080p Blu Ray. That number is essentially the amount of information you see per second.

The DCI movie files used by theaters have a 250 mbps bit rate regardless if they're 4k or 2k. The intent when 4k was first marketed to theaters was less visible pixel structure on super large screens. It wasn't about more detail. A 2k dci movie theater file has well over twice the information found on a 4K UHD Blu Ray disc.

Streaming services vary and are somewhat dependent on your internet connection but Netflix, for example, recommends a 15-25 mbps connection for 4k streaming. I.e. A 4k Netflix movie is a good bit less detailed than a 1080p Blu Ray. 1080p and 4k Netflix look very similar to my eye as a result.

There is also huge differences between displays (aside from resolution) which makes it hard to compare. 4k looks great on my 77" Oled but everything looks better on Oled. The first 1080p Oleds looked a lot better than Sony's first 4k LCD TV's.

LCD, Lcos and Oled displays have horrible motion resolution compared to Plasma and CRT. A 4K image can suddenly look like standard def on fast moving scenes on a poor quality 4K display. Higher quality LCD, LCOS and OLED displays use frame interpolation to compensate for lower motion res. The extra frames they create make the image look more detailed and some assume this is the 4K res kicking in. But... things look different when it's switched off..

Similarly, there's the frame rate. Doubling the frame rate would create far more extra detail than doubling the resolution. So... It's not a simple question and a lot depends on the content.

If you're looking for the highest quality most detailed movie content currently available for home use, that is undoubtedly 4k UHD Blu Ray. The files are over twice the size of 1080p Blu Ray with a wider color space and better sound.
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post #37 of 38 Old 06-21-2020, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudHead View Post
They are already trying to push 8k. At least when 1080 came out it was fully adapted before 4K appeared. 4K is not even fully adapted yet but there is already 8k. Kinda makes me not want to fully invest in 4K
8K is an overkill for most of the stuff. The screen must really be big to fully experience it... I doubt there is any use to invest in 8K at least for a couple of years. 8K content is really scarce.
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post #38 of 38 Old 06-22-2020, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TarantuloTV View Post
8K is an overkill for most of the stuff. The screen must really be big to fully experience it... I doubt there is any use to invest in 8K at least for a couple of years. 8K content is really scarce.
They did the same with 4k too. They released 4k displays years before there was any 4k content and before there was even a 4k HDMI standard (making early 4k TVs incompatible with current 4k content).

Even now, the vast majority of what I watch is still 1080p (or less). I've never once looked at my 4k Oled and thought "oh man, I can see pixels, I wish they'd hurry up with 8k already".

What I have thought (fairly regularly) is that the older content I like (like vintage game consoles) looks worse as the res increases. And, that motion resolution needs improving on Oled and LCD displays. Frame interpolation changes the look of movies so it's not an ideal solution to this issue.

My strong preference would be for the next standard to be based on a higher framerate instead of more pixels. Moving to 120fps video content and 48fps movies would deliver a significantly more noticeable increase in detail and motion than a higher res we aren't ready for.

On the other hand, 8k displays will mean more bargains on "obsolete" 4K projectors so... um.... bring it on I guess.
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