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post #1 of 38 Old 03-05-2019, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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4K vs 1080P

So I’m sure this issue has been beat to death, but oddly when I search the title of this post nothing really comes up on here.

I am not sold on 4K. I just got a 1080P projector. I sit 11.5ft away from a 100” screen.
The picture looks phenomenal. Could it be better? Sure. Would I really notice with most content? Maybe only side by side comparisons would shine a light on this for me. However, here are a few major issues holding my back from the 4K band wagon.

1) 3D. It doesn’t exist on 4K.
2) Extensive standard DVD library.
I have 400 movies mostly on regular DVDs. The bigger and better a screen you try to display low res content, the worse it looks.
3) not enough content.
While TVs are flying high at 8K we are still slow to the market with 4K content. We are picking up steam but still lacking in general TV and even streaming content. Storage and bandwidth can also create issues with the latter.

So while I will not content the 4K is a technical better picture than 1080, I argue whether I would ultimately be happy with that move.

Convince me otherwise.

Thanks!


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post #2 of 38 Old 03-05-2019, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeisureDave View Post

I am not sold on 4K. I just got a 1080P projector. I sit 11.5ft away from a 100” screen.
The picture looks phenomenal. Could it be better? Sure. Would I really notice with most content? Maybe only side by side comparisons would shine a light on this for me. However, here are a few major issues holding my back from the 4K band wagon.

1) 3D. It doesn’t exist on 4K.
2) Extensive standard DVD library.
I have 400 movies mostly on regular DVDs. The bigger and better a screen you try to display low res content, the worse it looks.
3) not enough content.

Can't speak for a 100 inch screen but on my 65" OLED I can most definitely see a difference in 4K vs 1080p resolution... but it's really the eye popping HDR that matters.


1) 3D is dead...
2) I have double that amount... most of which aren't DVDs. There's plenty of content available. I have nearly 200 4K UHD discs. My library is in my sig.
3) See #2

I agree with you about the low res content on bigger screens. I look at craptastic Comcast and their 720p on 65" screen and it doesn't look all that great... but at the same time I didn't buy a 65" 4K OLED for that. I bought it for 1080p and 4K UHD movies and it really shines for that content.

I think you are attached to your DVD collection. Glad I only started collecting movies with the OLED purchase. I only have a handful of DVDs and only because they are movies that aren't available on blu ray.
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post #3 of 38 Old 03-05-2019, 01:15 PM
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To me is not so much the resolution, but the increased brightness/contrast from my new 4K panel. Do they make 1080 of equal brightness/contrast? I dunno, I never looked for one, as I needed a 4K to run a specific 4K app.

Tell u what though, the @#%& 4K TV broke my nice AV processor, which is only 1080 capable. Caveat emptor.

All in all, u right, don't joint the bandwagon until you have a specific need to.
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post #4 of 38 Old 03-05-2019, 02:04 PM
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Is there a chart showing screen size and view distance requirements to (generally) see the 4K quality difference? I am thinking, would a 42" 4K TV at 11 feet look better than a 1080P of the same size and distance?
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post #5 of 38 Old 03-05-2019, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeisureDave View Post
EXCERPT
So I’m sure this issue has been beat to death, but oddly when I search the title of this post nothing really comes up on here.

I am not sold on 4K. I just got a 1080P projector.
LD, I think you've answered your own question, but if you require further information, I suggest visiting the Panasonic DP-UB820 4K UHD player owners thread (linked). From what I gather, that player seems to satisfy many projector owners for price, function, and PQ.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...-talk-112.html
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post #6 of 38 Old 03-08-2019, 02:24 PM
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You are happy with your 1080p projector so that's all that matters.

No need to buy into 4K ... until you have to replace your projector because at that time you may not have a choice.
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post #7 of 38 Old 03-16-2019, 09:28 AM
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No discussion, 4K UHD is better than 1080p. is it night and day difference, NO. Are you happy with 1080p BluRay discs? no need to ask or discuss.

The 4k UHD disc is the best medium for high-quality playback there is.

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post #8 of 38 Old 03-18-2019, 09:20 AM
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I just replaced my Sony VPL-VW70 projector with a Sony VPL-VW295es projector. I've been toying around all week, but here's what I've found.


I agree that my previous projector looked great, it displayed on a 120" screen and I sat around 16 feet away. The way I see it, I get the same picture as before now that I have installed the Sony 4k projector, but upscaled 1080p looks better to me than standard 1080p.


I've also opened up to 4k content. Even on Netflix, there is 4k content and it looks noticeably different and better than 1080p content.


There is 3D content, I haven't tested it yet, but it exists.



I also consider myself somewhat future proofed being that I've upped my options for high resolution content by moving to a 4k projector. The Sony 295es is 18gbp and true 4k, certified for the IMAX experience.


All that being said, there's an upside to your situation. The day before my projector arrived, I watched a movie in my mediaroom and thought to myself "this is a great picture". I second guessed upgrading to 4k. My brother purchased a Sony VPL-VW285es and shortly after the VPL-VW295es came out, so his value shot down. This shows how fast the technology is growing and shows that purchasing at this point still runs the risk of purchasing a projector you may need/want to upgrade again soon.



If you are pleased with your picture and don't feel you are losing anything, you will do nothing but save money as prices in 4k decrease.


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post #9 of 38 Old 03-18-2019, 12:29 PM
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Desmond,...

I don't think your PJ does 3D at native 4K. It can up convert a 1080p 3D signal to 4K.


The 285 does amazing things with 3DBD though. (And does have to up covert the 1080p signal to 4K.)
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post #10 of 38 Old 03-19-2019, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Desmond,...

I don't think your PJ does 3D at native 4K. It can up convert a 1080p 3D signal to 4K.


The 285 does amazing things with 3DBD though. (And does have to up covert the 1080p signal to 4K.)

I see your point, I was more so making the argument that it does 3D, while the true argument is does it do 3D in 4K. Got it... and you're 100% correct. All being said, I gotta be honest, I'm very happy with the 295 so far.
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post #11 of 38 Old 03-19-2019, 07:13 AM
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You should be, it's excellent.

Even the 285 I have is great but the 295 has needed enhancements like the full bandwidth capability.

I haven't watched much 3D on my 285 but what I have watched has been amazing so I should remember to watch my 3DBD collection more often.
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post #12 of 38 Old 03-19-2019, 08:11 PM
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Is Blu-Ray considered 4K ?
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post #13 of 38 Old 03-20-2019, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ng4ever View Post
Is Blu-Ray considered 4K ?

It can be either. Standard BD (1080p) or UHD BD (4K)
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post #14 of 38 Old 03-20-2019, 06:00 PM
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I have the same question as OP. In the beginning, the gold standard was pixel for pixel, no scaling.

I've got a 1080p system that does just that...blu ray, and whatever OTA sends me, so I only scale when a 480 or 720 picture is sent to me.

I'm sure a 4k set is better objectively IF you feed it 4k content....but what happens if I buy a 4k set and then scale my 1080 to it....you don't get any of the HDR or other improvements then......

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Originally Posted by speedlaw View Post
I'm sure a 4k set is better objectively IF you feed it 4k content....but what happens if I buy a 4k set and then scale my 1080 to it....you don't get any of the HDR or other improvements then......

Wait, are you saying that if you play 1080 HDR material on a 4K set, you lose HDR? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying.....?

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post #16 of 38 Old 03-21-2019, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desmondlewissmith View Post

All that being said, there's an upside to your situation. The day before my projector arrived, I watched a movie in my mediaroom and thought to myself "this is a great picture". I second guessed upgrading to 4k. My brother purchased a Sony VPL-VW285es and shortly after the VPL-VW295es came out, so his value shot down. This shows how fast the technology is growing and shows that purchasing at this point still runs the risk of purchasing a projector you may need/want to upgrade again soon.

It's funny you say that. I also upgraded recently. I had a Sony VPL-VW95ES that I put into my theater back in 2011 when I built my theater. Even this year I still had it mounted and the picture still looked great. With all of these new 4K projectors coming out people were starting to sell a lot of their E-Shift projectors and I purchased a JVC-RS540 used from a member here. After paying for it, but before it arrived, I really thought that maybe I should have waited.... because it really put out a great picture. But then I installed it. People can argue that "you can't see 4K" as much as they want, but the difference in the picture was instantly visible. Even if it is only E-Shift vs true 4K, the picture is amazing. The image it puts out is outstanding, and the upscaling from MadVR on even some of my existing 1080P content is pretty unbelievable. Some films like Mortal Engines or Aquaman in 4K HDR, or watching streaming like Blue Planet II are spectacular to see.
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post #17 of 38 Old 03-21-2019, 09:16 PM
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It's funny you say that. I also upgraded recently. I had a Sony VPL-VW95ES that I put into my theater back in 2011 when I built my theater. Even this year I still had it mounted and the picture still looked great. With all of these new 4K projectors coming out people were starting to sell a lot of their E-Shift projectors and I purchased a JVC-RS540 used from a member here. After paying for it, but before it arrived, I really thought that maybe I should have waited.... because it really put out a great picture. But then I installed it. People can argue that "you can't see 4K" as much as they want, but the difference in the picture was instantly visible. Even if it is only E-Shift vs true 4K, the picture is amazing. The image it puts out is outstanding, and the upscaling from MadVR on even some of my existing 1080P content is pretty unbelievable. Some films like Mortal Engines or Aquaman in 4K HDR, or watching streaming like Blue Planet II are spectacular to see.

I couldn't agree more. Now that my new projector is installed and I'm looking at content in 1080p and 4k, its the prettiest picture I've ever seen!!! I also installed an Elite Screens Grey Screen. I am super happy with my end product, now if I can just sell my old Sony VPL-VW70.... LOL
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post #18 of 38 Old 03-22-2019, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ng4ever View Post
Is Blu-Ray considered 4K ?
No, Ultra HD Blu-ray is considered 4K which is not the same format as "Blu-ray" in spite of sharing part of the format's name. Similarly HD DVD is a different format to DVD.

Blu-ray max rez = 1080p, Ultra HD Blu-ray max rez = 4K.
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post #19 of 38 Old 03-23-2019, 09:43 AM
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There is nothing I hate more than when people say they're not sure if they can see the difference between 1080p and 4k (and to be fair I know OP didn't say this specifically so I'm just generalizing here)

So it's time to be genuinely honest here and acknowledge the elephant in the room. Fellas.... despite what the ladies day to make us all wanna feel the good the truth is :size does matter" and in the world of TVs in relation to resolution it definitely matters even more.

When it comes to pixel differential between 4K AND 1080P we are talking about some 4 million pixels differential between the two. I mean I don't know about you all but 4 million isn't an insignificant number to sneeze at, but again we have to keep into account that size does play a huge significant role.

With projectors this difference comes into play even more so than TVs because we all know when compared to TVs projectors can go bigger and cost much less than an equivalent sized TV.

I got my first projector just a few months ago and now I'm not sure that I'll ever be able to go back to just TVs alone. I mean I'll use the tv for regular TV viewing purposes but when it comes to movies, shows and stuff like that, the difference is HUGE between what you can see as far details and resolution are concerned.

Only thing I can say is that don't be too quick to dismiss things based on what you're feeling rather than logical sense.

At this point I'm wishing that 8k projectors were affordable so I can just skip out on 4k all together and go straight for that. Heck I'd even take an 8k eshift since it'll be cheaper than native 4k
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logical reasoning 101: confirmation bias


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post #21 of 38 Old 03-25-2019, 04:26 PM
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I have a 65" LG Oled and I can clearly see the difference between 4k and 1080p content, Especially Dolby Vision on Netflix.
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post #22 of 38 Old 03-30-2019, 10:40 AM
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This was an issue discussed more in the past, when 4k was first coming out. For differences in resolution, seeing a difference depends on basically three things:

1) your eyesight
2) your viewing distance
3) the screen size
All three matter; change any one of them, and you change when the higher resolution matters. Here you can look at an article and a chart and a calculator:

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter/

Because different people have different eyesight, they normally choose 20/20 vision for these sorts of charts. (It would be good if someone would make a calculator with eyesight as another variable, but I have not found any that allow for that and only are correct for 20/20 vision.) If your eyesight is better than that, then the distances will be greater when the resolution starts to matter. (That is, if you have better than 20/20 vision, then you will see all of the detail of a particular resolution TV of a particular size at a greater distance than someone with 20/20 vision. This means that, with your better than 20/20 vision, you are going to find TVs at the maximum distance on such charts as being too close such that they do not offer perfect clarity.) If your eyesight is worse, then the distances will be less before the resolution matters. If you watch with glasses or contact lenses, then it is your corrected vision that will matter for this.

Looking at the calculator, if you have 20/20 vision, with a 100 inch screen, you can see all of the detail of 1080p at 13 feet. So with 11.5 feet, you could see a difference with true 4k content, assuming you have 20/20 vision (which we have NO reason to assume is the case for LeisureDave).

For those who are wanting 8k, one would need to sit closer than 6 feet to a 100 inch screen to see any difference in resolution between 4k and 8k, if one has 20/20 vision.


It is also worth pointing out the fact that there are other differences in TVs aside from resolution, and those other differences may be visible even if the added resolution is not visible. So one may well see a difference between two TVs when the difference one is seeing is something other than a difference in their resolution.

If your vision is exactly 20/20, then those calculators can be used as-is. If your vision is better or worse, then those calculators and charts will be off a bit, with the more your vision differs from 20/20, the more off they will be. In all cases, if you are seeing individual pixels from your viewing position, you may wish to invest in a higher resolution TV (or just sit further back, or get a smaller TV).

Keep in mind, your preferences also enter into this, as some people are more concerned about perfect clarity than others, and some want a larger screen than others for a particular viewing distance.

Also, many people judge this sort of thing in the wrong way, by putting their faces really close to the screen to see if they can see a difference. It does not matter if you can see a difference at a distance closer than you will be actually watching it; what matters is what you can see at the distance you will be viewing the screen. Salesmen, though, may like for people to get up closer than they will actually view the screen, so they can sell people a TV with higher resolution than the person needs.
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post #23 of 38 Old 03-30-2019, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41532 View Post
Is there a chart showing screen size and view distance requirements to (generally) see the 4K quality difference? I am thinking, would a 42" 4K TV at 11 feet look better than a 1080P of the same size and distance?
You can use the calculator here:

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter/

With a 42 inch screen, if you have 20/20 vision, you will not see the difference between the resolution of 720p and 4k at 11 feet. (However, there are other differences aside from resolution when comparing TVs, and those other things may be visible.) 720p will look perfect at that distance, as far as resolution is concerned, again, assuming you have 20/20 vision.

With a 42 inch screen, you would have to be closer than 5 feet to see a difference between 1080p and 4k, assuming you have 20/20 vision.


I suppose I should also mention that these calculators tend to round things off, so that even if one's vision is exactly 20/20, the rounding may cause slight errors in what will be "perfect" as far as resolution is concerned. So if one is at the edge, as it were, it might be a good idea to consider going with the higher resolution, if one wishes to be certain that it will be perfect. ("Perfect resolution" does not mean the picture is perfect in any other way, so one should keep that in mind when considering what I am stating. There are many other aspects of picture quality, but I am not discussing any of those presently.)

Many people sit at such distances that 4k resolution will not matter at all for them. And with the example that you have given, one might as well have a 720p TV instead of a 1080p, if one has 20/20 vision, as far as resolution is concerned. (If you moved just one foot further away, the TV might as well only be 480p. At that distance [12'], a well-made DVD would look as good as true 4k content, as far as resolution is concerned. Again, assuming 20/20 vision or worse.)
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post #24 of 38 Old 04-01-2019, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post
It's funny you say that. I also upgraded recently. I had a Sony VPL-VW95ES that I put into my theater back in 2011 when I built my theater. Even this year I still had it mounted and the picture still looked great. With all of these new 4K projectors coming out people were starting to sell a lot of their E-Shift projectors and I purchased a JVC-RS540 used from a member here. After paying for it, but before it arrived, I really thought that maybe I should have waited.... because it really put out a great picture. But then I installed it. People can argue that "you can't see 4K" as much as they want, but the difference in the picture was instantly visible. Even if it is only E-Shift vs true 4K, the picture is amazing. The image it puts out is outstanding, and the upscaling from MadVR on even some of my existing 1080P content is pretty unbelievable. Some films like Mortal Engines or Aquaman in 4K HDR, or watching streaming like Blue Planet II are spectacular to see.

It is possible the image is a lot better due to the JVC having much better blacks and contrast than your previous Sony. At distance, contrast is more noticeable than resolution. I am planning on making the jump from Sony to JVC but I am going to give it another year or so for pricing to drop and tech to improve. At my distance, I don't think I will detect much resolution change but HDR, blacks, and contrast should be a drastic improvement.
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post #25 of 38 Old 04-13-2019, 09:16 AM
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@LeisureDave I have seen a dozen such threads over the last few years asking a similar question. For some reason, maybe the sub forum you put it in I find the answers here a great cross section of thoughts on the subject.

First off you are talking projectors and not flat panel TV. As you are talking projectors I will assume you are talking a proper projection room and a proper screen, because without both this resolution debate is meaningless. The next thing to think about is the HDR component of 4k and if it will be there or even if you need or want it when doing proper projection. The expanded color gamut is a positive in terms of the color palette but in terms of the color brightness in the expanded gamut it is not there and maybe never will be. That’s why comparing projection to flat panels in this discussion is not relevant. The >1000 nits specs you read about are in flat panels. The whole watching experience is different one being bright and small and less immersive in a room allowing ambient light, the other being much more immersive in a dark room where our eyes iris are allowed to open and take in a much more film-like experience. Comparing projectors to flat panels has always been like comparing apples to oranges but now in the era of HDR it is more like comparing apples to watermelons IMO. One is not better than the other just different and that is not even with factoring in size and cost.

@ian c 2 You make a great point. Discussions like this always reflect these kinds of bias.

@Jack D Ripper Be very careful into reading to much into these Carlton Bale charts. They used to deal with pixel size and when pixel size became an issue with PQ. With 1080p that tended to change and seating distance / immersion became a big factor along with having perfect vision. That doesn’t mean there is not improvement in the PQ with greater resolution as there will be “noticeable benefits” but they are subtler and they are more in comparing an image to reality. This type benefits will continue at least to 16-32k images but with each step will become less and less important unless your goal in the image is to reach reality. Being content and totally fine with the visual enjoyment in an image is a much different thing. The OP knows this as his statement about his 1080p image is that it is “phenomenal”. He didn’t say it just looked ok he said phenomenal and even questions could it be better? We tend too second guess our eyes because of what we read and hear. The answer is I guess yes it will be even (more phenomal-er).

Then there are all the other options that go into projection PQ besides resolution, things like contrast and black levels. When dealing with the upper level of 1080p equipment right now and entry level 4k equipment trying to keep cost somewhat close from what I have been reading 4k could be lacking if money is a concern.

Like some here I also still have a wide mix of media I watch and I’m not about to buy all my media over again. I look at being a medium to late adopter in two ways one is with being later than sooner there is always something to be said about buying a mature technology also it gives the media I watch a chance to catch up. This is coming from the guy that I bought a 2 head top loading VCR before anyone knew what a VCR was for the small sum of $800. Multiply that by at least 5 to be in today’s dollars.

There is no right or wrong answer to this question. I’m of course sticking with my older larger Dark Chip 3 DLP for a couple more years because it looks phenomenal to me and plays all my media well enough. I can’t hardly wait for the cheep 4k laser projector I will buy that hasn’t been invented yet to go with the cheap 4k media I will be getting when 8k is all the rage.
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post #26 of 38 Old 04-13-2019, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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@LeisureDave I have seen a dozen such threads over the last few years asking a similar question. For some reason, maybe the sub forum you put it in I find the answers here a great cross section of thoughts on the subject.



First off you are talking projectors and not flat panel TV. As you are talking projectors I will assume you are talking a proper projection room and a proper screen, because without both this resolution debate is meaningless. The next thing to think about is the HDR component of 4k and if it will be there or even if you need or want it when doing proper projection. The expanded color gamut is a positive in terms of the color palette but in terms of the color brightness in the expanded gamut it is not there and maybe never will be. That’s why comparing projection to flat panels in this discussion is not relevant. The >1000 nits specs you read about are in flat panels. The whole watching experience is different one being bright and small and less immersive in a room allowing ambient light, the other being much more immersive in a dark room where our eyes iris are allowed to open and take in a much more film-like experience. Comparing projectors to flat panels has always been like comparing apples to oranges but now in the era of HDR it is more like comparing apples to watermelons IMO. One is not better than the other just different and that is not even with factoring in size and cost.


@ian c 2 You make a great point. Discussions like this always reflect these kinds of bias.


@Jack D Ripper Be very careful into reading to much into these Carlton Bale charts. They used to deal with pixel size and when pixel size became an issue with PQ. With 1080p that tended to change and seating distance / immersion became a big factor along with having perfect vision. That doesn’t mean there is not improvement in the PQ with greater resolution as there will be “noticeable benefits” but they are subtler and they are more in comparing an image to reality. This type benefits will continue at least to 16-32k images but with each step will become less and less important unless your goal in the image is to reach reality. Being content and totally fine with the visual enjoyment in an image is a much different thing. The OP knows this as his statement about his 1080p image is that it is “phenomenal”. He didn’t say it just looked ok he said phenomenal and even questions could it be better? We tend too second guess our eyes because of what we read and hear. The answer is I guess yes it will be even (more phenomal-er).



Then there are all the other options that go into projection PQ besides resolution, things like contrast and black levels. When dealing with the upper level of 1080p equipment right now and entry level 4k equipment trying to keep cost somewhat close from what I have been reading 4k could be lacking if money is a concern.



Like some here I also still have a wide mix of media I watch and I’m not about to buy all my media over again. I look at being a medium to late adopter in two ways one is with being later than sooner there is always something to be said about buying a mature technology also it gives the media I watch a chance to catch up. This is coming from the guy that I bought a 2 head top loading VCR before anyone knew what a VCR was for the small sum of $800. Multiply that by at least 5 to be in today’s dollars.



There is no right or wrong answer to this question. I’m of course sticking with my older larger Dark Chip 3 DLP for a couple more years because it looks phenomenal to me and plays all my media well enough. I can’t hardly wait for the cheep 4k laser projector I will buy that hasn’t been invented yet to go with the cheap 4k media I will be getting when 8k is all the rage.


Insightful! Thanks for the response! I suppose “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” to large extent with this. You raise a valid question about HDR. I will tell you that with my projector on low lamp setting I still have moments when I feel like it’s too bright. I am using a cheap 1.1 gain screen which I’m sure is the culprit, but it makes me think I would want any more brightness or lumens in my light controlled room. Enhanced colors sounds good, but I have a bit of the “if it ain’t broke” mentality there. When I watch set-up I’ve delighted and don’t wish for something better. In fact one of my points is, wouldn’t having a 4K projector make all of my content look worse 1080p and under ?
If yes than I’m with you. I’m not about to replace all of my movies with 4K. Maybe at that point physical discs will cease to exist and all content will be 4K streaming- but that’s a conversation for another thread


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post #27 of 38 Old 04-13-2019, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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You can use the calculator here:



http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter/



With a 42 inch screen, if you have 20/20 vision, you will not see the difference between the resolution of 720p and 4k at 11 feet. (However, there are other differences aside from resolution when comparing TVs, and those other things may be visible.) 720p will look perfect at that distance, as far as resolution is concerned, again, assuming you have 20/20 vision.



With a 42 inch screen, you would have to be closer than 5 feet to see a difference between 1080p and 4k, assuming you have 20/20 vision.





I suppose I should also mention that these calculators tend to round things off, so that even if one's vision is exactly 20/20, the rounding may cause slight errors in what will be "perfect" as far as resolution is concerned. So if one is at the edge, as it were, it might be a good idea to consider going with the higher resolution, if one wishes to be certain that it will be perfect. ("Perfect resolution" does not mean the picture is perfect in any other way, so one should keep that in mind when considering what I am stating. There are many other aspects of picture quality, but I am not discussing any of those presently.)



Many people sit at such distances that 4k resolution will not matter at all for them. And with the example that you have given, one might as well have a 720p TV instead of a 1080p, if one has 20/20 vision, as far as resolution is concerned. (If you moved just one foot further away, the TV might as well only be 480p. At that distance [12'], a well-made DVD would look as good as true 4k content, as far as resolution is concerned. Again, assuming 20/20 vision or worse.)


Thanks for the response. I certainly notice a difference in DVDs and Blu Rays. You are right about “quality” some DVDs look almost as good as Blu Rays but most have a noticeable softness and grain. I usually stop noticing it after a few minutes and if someone starts off with SD content they usually don’t know the wiser but flip between both and the contrast is stark. also while the main viewing seats are 12’ away there are some seats as close as 5’. I guess I need to see a side by side but sadly no stores around here have projectors on display.


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post #28 of 38 Old 04-14-2019, 08:58 AM
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Insightful! Thanks for the response! I suppose “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” to large extent with this. You raise a valid question about HDR. I will tell you that with my projector on low lamp setting I still have moments when I feel like it’s too bright. I am using a cheap 1.1 gain screen which I’m sure is the culprit, but it makes me think I would want any more brightness or lumens in my light controlled room. Enhanced colors sounds good, but I have a bit of the “if it ain’t broke” mentality there. When I watch set-up I’ve delighted and don’t wish for something better. In fact one of my points is, wouldn’t having a 4K projector make all of my content look worse 1080p and under ?
If yes than I’m with you. I’m not about to replace all of my movies with 4K. Maybe at that point physical discs will cease to exist and all content will be 4K streaming- but that’s a conversation for another thread


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The added brightness with HDR we are told is reserved for bright details with fire and sunsets and the like. That’s the good news because if you had 50 sq ft of 1000 nits brightness switching between that and black in a dark theater room the effect would be blinding. The bad news is in order to have that extra HDR brightness available for the highlights the projector has to block that light for everything else. That’s probably some of the reason the entry HDR projectors have with contrast and black levels.

I agree without HDR with 1080p and a good BD source I feel I have more than amazing bright highlights and overall brightness. I had to laugh the other day I was watching a new BD on a 1080p projector being played on a 1080p player and a promo came on telling and showing me the virtues of 4k HDR. It looked absolutely amazing as if I suddenly had upgraded equipment. I remember the same thing years ago where a DVD was trying to sell me on BD and it was the same

I have a large DVD collection also over 3000 at last count, and will not be replacing them for BD or better. I only have so many because I had a friend in the DVD rental business and he would sell me new releases a couple weeks late for 10 for 10. It was like having Netflix before there was Netflix. When we were watching them with 720p upscale the up scaling was perfect and major improvement. Going to 1080p upscale the resolution was improvement but defiantly softened. I don’t think going to 4k will do DVD any good over 1080p and likely will take it in the wrong direction. When I stepped up to 1080p I also increased immersion and now watch my CIH of the best sources around 2X screen height seating distance and IMAX material 1.5X screen height seating distance. The trouble with that is lesser media DVD and some OTA TV and some streaming media isn’t good enough for that immersion and it wont be with a 4k projector also. I could have moved my seating around but it was much easier to adopt a variable image presentation using zoom. DVD and other poor sources I show at up to 3X screen height seating distance and they look very good and still large and theater like.

Given today’s world of source qualities and stuff like IMAX Enhanced coming on soon I think more people even with 4k systems will or should be thinking of ways to vary immersion. I would hate to see all the old great movies of the past be lost just because they meet today’s standards of perfection.

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post #29 of 38 Old 05-19-2019, 10:17 PM
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So I’m sure this issue has been beat to death, but oddly when I search the title of this post nothing really comes up on here.

I am not sold on 4K. I just got a 1080P projector. I sit 11.5ft away from a 100” screen.
The picture looks phenomenal. Could it be better? Sure. Would I really notice with most content? Maybe only side by side comparisons would shine a light on this for me. However, here are a few major issues holding my back from the 4K band wagon.

1) 3D. It doesn’t exist on 4K.
2) Extensive standard DVD library.
I have 400 movies mostly on regular DVDs. The bigger and better a screen you try to display low res content, the worse it looks.
3) not enough content.
While TVs are flying high at 8K we are still slow to the market with 4K content. We are picking up steam but still lacking in general TV and even streaming content. Storage and bandwidth can also create issues with the latter.

So while I will not content the 4K is a technical better picture than 1080, I argue whether I would ultimately be happy with that move.

Convince me otherwise.

Thanks!


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I understand your not wanting or need to upgrade. I'm still rocking a 1080p projector but I'm not looking to upgrade until I can afford the projector that I want. I don't want to make a purchase just to keep up with the joneses. Tech is improving so fast that I don't feel comfortable just jumping in and having regret later.
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post #30 of 38 Old 06-12-2020, 03:30 PM
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They are already trying to push 8k. At least when 1080 came out it was fully adapted before 4K appeared. 4K is not even fully adapted yet but there is already 8k. Kinda makes me not want to fully invest in 4K
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