Tariff on Chinese Goods - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 13Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Tariff on Chinese Goods

Not sure if this has already discussed, but does the list includes audio equipment like speakers? If yes, how is this going to impact the industry? Who would benefit and lose?
Russell Burrows likes this.

Ascend Sierra Tower and Horizon with RAAL. HSU VTF-15H MK2. Sony 40ES and Silver Ticket 135.
FIQBAL is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 12:30 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,533
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7106 Post(s)
Liked: 8437
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIQBAL View Post
Not sure if this has already discussed, but does the list includes audio equipment like speakers? If yes, how is this going to impact the industry? Who would benefit and lose?
Prices will probably go up. Buy now, as you probably have a 60 day lag time on items being charged a tariff arriving here.
Lp85253 likes this.

[email protected] JVC RS4500, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreens - 128" diagonal 2.35:1 ST130 & 122" diagonal 16:9 Cima Neve, Denon X8500, Parasound A 52+ amp, Martin Logan Motion series 9.4 speakers, four SVS subs, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 203, PFP M1500 UPS
Craig Peer is online now  
post #3 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 12:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,177
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1816 Post(s)
Liked: 1104
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIQBAL View Post
Not sure if this has already discussed, but does the list includes audio equipment like speakers? If yes, how is this going to impact the industry? Who would benefit and lose?
I believe if they go ahead with the full threat it is every single product produced and sold here from China. Electronics included, TCL TV's will go up.
What I don't know or haven't read anywhere is just how much. What exactly 25% means in real money on products. Either way in my opinion it's not good.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Hetfieldjames is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 25
May I respectfully ask to keep off topic issues out of this thread. Assuming this tariff is here to stay how would this impact different manufactures in different price points? Are we going to see more low end items being produced here due to this or this will impact more the high end items that are currently produced in China? Is there any obvious winners like Salk or Ascend who have local manufacturing? I personally think items like speakers at least in mid and top range have so much markups that the manufactures will eat a substantial percentage of tariff to keep selling. After all this is a niche hobby.
Lp85253 likes this.

Ascend Sierra Tower and Horizon with RAAL. HSU VTF-15H MK2. Sony 40ES and Silver Ticket 135.

Last edited by teachsac; 05-14-2019 at 01:38 PM. Reason: political
FIQBAL is offline  
post #5 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 01:40 PM
Super Moderator
 
teachsac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 14,555
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1282 Post(s)
Liked: 2114
Posts removed. Keep politics/political commentary out of all discussions on AVS or this will be a very short-lived thread.

Please use the report post button to alert staff to problematic posts. Never quote or respond to them yourself.

Panasonic DP-UB820 -> Yamaha CX-A5100 -> Sony XBR-75X940C; Mediabridge 6' and 15' HDMI cables.
teachsac is offline  
post #6 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 01:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,177
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1816 Post(s)
Liked: 1104
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIQBAL View Post
May I respectfully ask to keep off topic issues out of this thread. Assuming this tariff is here to stay how would this impact different manufactures in different price points? Are we going to see more low end items being produced here due to this or this will impact more the high end items that are currently produced in China? Is there any obvious winners like Salk or Ascend who have local manufacturing? I personally think items like speakers at least in mid and top range have so much markups that the manufactures will eat a substantial percentage of tariff to keep selling. After all this is a niche hobby.
Hmm I was just gonna say even Ascend Acoustics might be screwed by this because they assemble here but parts like drivers come from overseas but that I don't think it's the case. I don't think anything that goes into their speakers is from China. I could be wrong but I think that's the case. Ascend may escape this.
PSA will completely escape this because everything from drivers, to crossovers to the cabinet I believe are from the US. Huh interesting thing I didn't think of.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Hetfieldjames is offline  
post #7 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 02:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,464
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2131 Post(s)
Liked: 1797
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIQBAL View Post
May I respectfully ask to keep off topic issues out of this thread. Assuming this tariff is here to stay how would this impact different manufactures in different price points? Are we going to see more low end items being produced here due to this or this will impact more the high end items that are currently produced in China? Is there any obvious winners like Salk or Ascend who have local manufacturing? I personally think items like speakers at least in mid and top range have so much markups that the manufactures will eat a substantial percentage of tariff to keep selling. After all this is a niche hobby.
sorry about the slip, no way of telling who/what will be affected until it happens.. some companies may lower prices some temporarily to suit consumer needs .. maybe some American companies will end up profiting .. we shall see .. it's all speculation till it's implemented.. nature of the beast.. hard to talk about this subject without the obvious intertwine with foreign policy , since that is what dictates what happens .. it's like talking astronomy but not being able to talk about the moon.. no disrespect meant to anyone...
mik2h and Panson like this.

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
Lp85253 is offline  
post #8 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 02:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked: 269
I found an article that has a list of some goods that would be subjected to the 25% tariffs and the relevant section lists:

Microphones, headphones, speakers, recorders, DVD players and other accessories for video and audio equipment

There was also another section stating furniture including metal and wood frames. So it is probably safe to say the audio industry will feel the effects of these tariffs.
D33vious is online now  
post #9 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 02:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,177
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1816 Post(s)
Liked: 1104
Quote:
Originally Posted by D33vious View Post
I found an article that has a list of some goods that would be subjected to the 25% tariffs and the relevant section lists:



Microphones, headphones, speakers, recorders, DVD players and other accessories for video and audio equipment



There was also another section stating furniture including metal and wood frames. So it is probably safe to say the audio industry will feel the effects of these tariffs.
I thought I saw TV's specifically mentioned in one article I saw?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Hetfieldjames is offline  
post #10 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 02:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Class A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 3,588
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 754 Post(s)
Liked: 4971
Thumbs up

Many of the speaker cabinets are made in China so there will be an increase for many American companies. Also Companies like Hegel, and Monitor Audio which are built in China will increase. With the exception of the B&W Diamond series all their other lines are built in China.
Class A is offline  
post #11 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 02:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
BuddTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 621
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 144
As I am not in the market for such parts, I do not know the industry, but I have to ask, are there no other sources anywhere else in the world where "users of such products" could source equivalent products, at equivalent prices?

I realize that a business might have an existing relationship with a Chinese company, and that would sucks, esp if the business had custom items that were being manufactured specifically for the business.

Also, are there any American AV companies that will benefit if China drops their existing tariffs?

I realize that it would add some expense, but could products be purchased from some third country "clearing house" and avoid the tarrif?
BuddTX is offline  
post #12 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 02:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,177
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1816 Post(s)
Liked: 1104
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddTX View Post
As I am not in the market for such parts, I do not know the industry, but I have to ask, are there no other sources anywhere else in the world where "users of such products" could source equivalent products, at equivalent prices?

I realize that you may be a business with an existing relationship with a Chinese company, and that would sucks, esp if you had custom items that you were purchasing.

Also, are there any American AV companies that will benefit if China drops their existing tariffs?


I realize that it would add some expense, but could products be purchased from some third country "clearing house" and avoid the tarrif?
Wow interesting, I never thought of that. Ways to get around tariffs.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Hetfieldjames is offline  
post #13 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 02:34 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 648
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked: 345
The ultimate effect of the raised tariffs is impossible to know.

- Some companies will absorb the increased costs some will pass them on as time goes by more and more companies will raise prices to pass on tariff costs
- American manufacturers may take this as an opportunity to raise their prices, this has happened already with washing machines and dryers
- Some companies will move manufacturing to other low-cost countries, for example hard drive production moved to Thailand several years ago
- Some companies will move manufacturing back to the states, but that takes time and many raw materials have tariffs.

Ultimately we just have to wait and see.

Current system:
Sony 75X900e/Sony STR-DN-1080, CS-3/CS-8/CS5
Sony X800 4K blu-ray player/Dish Hopper3
Roku 4 Premier/Sony PS-4
Cheddarhead is online now  
post #14 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 03:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
I thought I saw TV's specifically mentioned in one article I saw?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
I don't see TVs specifically mentioned in this article, but it does say its only a partial list. I would think Tvs would be listed if they were affected, but I cannot say for sure. Here is the article I read (It doesn't get political so I hope it is ok to post):


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/13/here...nt-tariff.html
D33vious is online now  
post #15 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 03:30 PM
Member
 
mhmercer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheddarhead View Post
The ultimate effect of the raised tariffs is impossible to know.

- Some companies will absorb the increased costs some will pass them on as time goes by more and more companies will raise prices to pass on tariff costs
- American manufacturers may take this as an opportunity to raise their prices, this has happened already with washing machines and dryers
- Some companies will move manufacturing to other low-cost countries, for example hard drive production moved to Thailand several years ago
- Some companies will move manufacturing back to the states, but that takes time and many raw materials have tariffs.

Ultimately we just have to wait and see.
"Economics" provides the answer to this question. As the marginal demand for goods/services remains the same, and as the marginal supply of those goods/services diminishes, the marginal price of goods/services rises. Here are some of the reasons: 1) producers who remain in the supply-chain will raise prices (market-will-bear); 2) short-term profits cannot cover long-term losses; 3) the prior-to-tariff supply-chain was the least expensive (most efficient) route. Tariffs make less efficient the supply-chain, thus, more costly.

Last edited by mhmercer; 05-14-2019 at 03:38 PM.
mhmercer is offline  
post #16 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 03:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,177
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1816 Post(s)
Liked: 1104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhmercer View Post
"Economics" provides the answer to this question. As the marginal demand for goods/services remains the same, and as the marginal supply of those goods/services diminishes, the marginal price of goods/services rises. Here are some of the reasons: 1) producers who remain in the supply-chain will raise prices (market-will-bear); 2) short-term profits cannot cover long-term losses; 3) the prior-to-tariff supply-chain was the least eapensive (most efficient) route. Tariffs make less efficient the supply-chain.
I'm no economic genius but that all sounds terrible for the consumer. artificial cost increases sounds to me.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Hetfieldjames is offline  
post #17 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 03:45 PM
Member
 
mhmercer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
I'm no economic genius but that all sounds terrible for the consumer. artificial cost increases sounds to me.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
It is terrible for the consumer. That's why one does not start a trade war. To paraphrase the movie War Games: the only way to win a trade-war game is to not play (start the war).
Panson likes this.

Last edited by mhmercer; 05-14-2019 at 03:49 PM.
mhmercer is offline  
post #18 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 03:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,177
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1816 Post(s)
Liked: 1104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhmercer View Post
It is terrible for the consumer. That's why one does not start a trade war. To paraphrase the movie War Games: the only way to win a trade-war game is to not play (start the war).
I kinda agree. Doesn't sound like fun to me.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Hetfieldjames is offline  
post #19 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 04:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Class A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 3,588
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 754 Post(s)
Liked: 4971
Unhappy

One product that will affect price is the rare earth element Neodymium. It is the magnet used in headphones, I-phones, Subwoofers, Electric cars and turbines. China controls 90% of the world's supply of REE's.The USA has just one mine located at Mountain Pass California. I remember some years ago I was looking for a new sub and I asked my dealer why the price went up. Figuring there was some improvement he stated the neodymium price had gone up and the company was passing the cost to the consumer. Moutain Pass has closed down twice in the last 20 years because of China. They both times dropped prices so low twice that it made the mining operation unprofitable. As soon as the mine closed China raised prices. Digging up Rare Earth Elements (REE's) is a dirty operation. It's a radical strip mining operation that also digs up a lot of low level radioactive uranium. Lots of costly EPA regulations that obviously China doesn't follow. In 2017 China delivered 105,000 metric tons of REE's world wide. The USA has delivered 43,000 metric tons over 20 years. About 2,000 a year. In fact we are not in the top ten of world wide producers Viet Nam comes in at number 10. Look for a price increase in headphones, subs and MC cart to name a few items.
Class A is offline  
post #20 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 04:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gorilla Killa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Next in line for a coveted Red Button
Posts: 3,047
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1503 Post(s)
Liked: 2163
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddTX View Post
As I am not in the market for such parts, I do not know the industry, but I have to ask, are there no other sources anywhere else in the world where "users of such products" could source equivalent products, at equivalent prices?

I realize that a business might have an existing relationship with a Chinese company, and that would sucks, esp if the business had custom items that were being manufactured specifically for the business.

Also, are there any American AV companies that will benefit if China drops their existing tariffs?

I realize that it would add some expense, but could products be purchased from some third country "clearing house" and avoid the tarrif?

Like Korea,Japan,Taiwan,Vietnam etc,etc. China's doesn't make nor supply everything. Although they do produce more rare earth elements. I could easily be wrong but, this is not good for China, US or the rest of the world in general. Be surprised if it goes on for more then a few months.

8hz ULF TR for the masses and the Cashless. Like a BOSS


If you can't stand behind our troops stand in front of them
Gorilla Killa is offline  
post #21 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 05:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Class A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 3,588
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 754 Post(s)
Liked: 4971
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
Like Korea,Japan,Taiwan,Vietnam etc,etc. China's doesn't make nor supply everything. Although they do produce more rare earth elements. I could easily be wrong but, this is not good for China, US or the rest of the world in general. Be surprised if it goes on for more then a few months.
China produces more than the rest of the top ten combined. In fact Australia which is number 2 both of their major mining operations are owned by the Chinese.
Class A is offline  
post #22 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 06:49 PM
Advanced Member
 
BuddTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 621
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 144
Interesting Article from April 2018: https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/17/1...china-monopoly

"China can’t control the market in rare earth elements because they aren’t all that rare"
BuddTX is offline  
post #23 of 35 Old 05-14-2019, 07:12 PM
Advanced Member
 
BuddTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 621
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 144
"U.S. leaves rare earths, critical minerals off China tariff list"
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1SK1R5
May 14, 2019 / 9:40 AM

BuddTX is offline  
post #24 of 35 Old 05-15-2019, 07:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,404
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 958 Post(s)
Liked: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
I thought I saw TV's specifically mentioned in one article I saw?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Are Samsung TV made in China? I am in process of deciding to purchase 75RU8000. Would it be impacted by the increased tarrif?
SouthernCA is offline  
post #25 of 35 Old 05-15-2019, 07:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,177
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1816 Post(s)
Liked: 1104
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
Are Samsung TV made in China? I am in process of deciding to purchase 75RU8000. Would it be impacted by the increased tarrif?
I'm not sure, but I don't think so. I thought they were made in South Korea. Good question though. Someone must have the answer here.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Hetfieldjames is offline  
post #26 of 35 Old 05-15-2019, 07:12 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,404
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 958 Post(s)
Liked: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by D33vious View Post
I don't see TVs specifically mentioned in this article, but it does say its only a partial list. I would think Tvs would be listed if they were affected, but I cannot say for sure. Here is the article I read (It doesn't get political so I hope it is ok to post):





https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/13/here...nt-tariff.html
By the way. This is the list of US items that will get more expensive for Chinese customers. Not what will get more expensive in the US.
EDJK likes this.
SouthernCA is offline  
post #27 of 35 Old 05-15-2019, 08:44 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 648
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
Are Samsung TV made in China? I am in process of deciding to purchase 75RU8000. Would it be impacted by the increased tarrif?
Even if they aren't made in China the price could rise, Samsung might decide to take advantage of the Chinese competitors price increase and raise their prices or Samsung might just not implement planned price cuts. Again you never know.

Current system:
Sony 75X900e/Sony STR-DN-1080, CS-3/CS-8/CS5
Sony X800 4K blu-ray player/Dish Hopper3
Roku 4 Premier/Sony PS-4
Cheddarhead is online now  
post #28 of 35 Old 05-15-2019, 11:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
By the way. This is the list of US items that will get more expensive for Chinese customers. Not what will get more expensive in the US.
Oops. You're right. I had read a few articles yesterday about the whole topic, and the one I was referring to was completely backwards as to what we were talking about. lol. That probably explains the TVs not being on there. I do remember reading that the US tariff list on Chinese goods was much larger than the Chinese tariff list on US goods.
D33vious is online now  
post #29 of 35 Old 05-15-2019, 11:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dlinsley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,122
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Liked: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
PSA will completely escape this because everything from drivers, to crossovers to the cabinet I believe are from the US.
When I bought my MTM-210s, Tom sent me the dispersion graph of the horn. I don't recall if the driver is, but the horn is made in Italy by B&C.
dlinsley is online now  
post #30 of 35 Old 05-15-2019, 11:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,177
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1816 Post(s)
Liked: 1104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlinsley View Post
When I bought my MTM-210s, Tom sent me the dispersion graph of the horn. I don't recall if the driver is, but the horn is made in Italy by B&C.
No kidding, huh, I thought their thing was built in the US and everything from the US. Thanks for the info because I didn't know that.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Hetfieldjames is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Community Articles

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off