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post #1 of 17 Old 05-12-2010, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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If I were to say what I feel this thread would instantly disappear. It is an understatement to say that I think APC customer support was misleading. As a result I am stuck with a product I really don't want unless I can come up with some way to effectively silence it.

The story: Prior posts on AVSf and APC FAQs indicate that the fan on at least some models of SmartUPS only run under certain circumstances. I e-mailed their customer support and based on the reply excerpted below ordered a SMT2200, the 2200VA model in the LCD line introduced late last year. The fan runs all the time which makes a bit of a mockery of their claim to green merit and increases my already far above average electric bills. This is normal per their response to a second e-mail on the subject where they assure me the unit is operating normally. It is a relatively quiet fan but this is a long way from silent. Since the unit is operating normally I cannot return it to PCNation where I bought it.

My e-mail query to customer support:
I am looking for a UPS to support some of the components of a home theater. It will be located where any noise would be annoying. Year around ambient temperature will be in the 69 - 76 degree F range.
The 2200VA LCD has a large fan and is overkill for my requirements. I like overkill.
The 1500VA LCD meets requirements but gives me little expansion capability.

My questions for each unit are:
1. noise when on mains power, battery fully charged, and a load of 150 watts or less?
2. Under what circumstances does the fan run? Is it variable speed?
Any relevant information is appreciated.

Customer support response:
... I understand your concern. Kindly note that the fan in new line Smart UPS (SMT/SMX) will run at maximum time with little more noise. You can see fan running in the following scenarios at maximum speed.

1. The UPS is on battery.
2. The UPS is charging the battery.
3. The UPS has a load greater than 75%.
4. The internal temperature of the UPS has reached greater than 104 degrees F (40 degrees C).

Note: The fan settings in the UPS system is not monitorable/configurable.

My painful mistake was misinterpreting maximum time to refer to the rest of the quote.

"Most people would die sooner than think, in fact they do so."  Bertrand Russell The ABC of Relativity, 1925

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post #2 of 17 Old 05-17-2010, 09:28 AM
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That's odd...

I have several Smart-UPS units. Two are refurbished SUA750XL's and one refurbished SUA1500 clone (IBM 1500TLV) units and by my observations the fans only run when on battery. However, all of them are fairly lightly loaded. One of my 750XL's has the external extended life battery pack connected to it.

It's unfortunate that the new units do not behave like the old ones.

The good news there are lots of good deals out there on refurbished APC units from UPSforless.com and RefurbUPS.com (and others) so you can still get the old ones.
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post #3 of 17 Old 05-18-2010, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbug2 View Post

If I were to say what I feel this thread would instantly disappear. It is an understatement to say that I think APC customer support was misleading. As a result I am stuck with a product I really don't want unless I can come up with some way to effectively silence it.

The story: Prior posts on AVSf and APC FAQs indicate that the fan on at least some models of SmartUPS only run under certain circumstances. I e-mailed their customer support and based on the reply excerpted below ordered a SMT2200, the 2200VA model in the LCD line introduced late last year. The fan runs all the time which makes a bit of a mockery of their claim to green merit and increases my already far above average electric bills. This is normal per their response to a second e-mail on the subject where they assure me the unit is operating normally. It is a relatively quiet fan but this is a long way from silent. Since the unit is operating normally I cannot return it to PCNation where I bought it.

My e-mail query to customer support:
I am looking for a UPS to support some of the components of a home theater. It will be located where any noise would be annoying. Year around ambient temperature will be in the 69 - 76 degree F range.
The 2200VA LCD has a large fan and is overkill for my requirements. I like overkill.
The 1500VA LCD meets requirements but gives me little expansion capability.

My questions for each unit are:
1. noise when on mains power, battery fully charged, and a load of 150 watts or less?
2. Under what circumstances does the fan run? Is it variable speed?
Any relevant information is appreciated.

Customer support response:
... I understand your concern. Kindly note that the fan in new line Smart UPS (SMT/SMX) will run at maximum time with little more noise. You can see fan running in the following scenarios at maximum speed.

1. The UPS is on battery.
2. The UPS is charging the battery.
3. The UPS has a load greater than 75%.
4. The internal temperature of the UPS has reached greater than 104 degrees F (40 degrees C).

Note: The fan settings in the UPS system is not monitorable/configurable.

My painful mistake was misinterpreting maximum time to refer to the rest of the quote.



This is a common problem with the new series of units. The fans are annoying and extremely loud. I looked into it a month ago when we got our SMT1500 and was shocked to see so many people complaining about the noise. We mostly use refurbished units and they work great for us, then my boss wanted a new one when his battery expired. We bought him the new unit and within 3 days he was begging to get his old SUA1500 back. The noise was driving him nuts! We returned the SMT1500 and bought a replacement battery for his old SUA1500. I would stick to the SU2200NET if I needed a bigger unit. Their fan rarely goes on, usually it will go on when charging after a discharge, while on batteries or if heavily loaded. Standby operation is very quiet. If you're looking for quiet UPSs, the SUA refurbished series is definitely the way to go. Stay away from the SMT series. Also, you'll save a huge bundle of money.
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post #4 of 17 Old 05-18-2010, 12:48 PM
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Maybe you need BRICKWALL ...

http://www.brickwall.com/
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post #5 of 17 Old 05-18-2010, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Colton View Post

Maybe you need BRICKWALL ...

http://www.brickwall.com/

Perhaps you can explain how that is going to help his situation...
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post #6 of 17 Old 05-26-2010, 08:58 AM
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I've generally observed that the fan will run on a SmartUPS if the unit is on the invertor (this includes on battery, boost and cut), if the unit is overtemp (duh) and if the battery charger is rapid-charging the battery. So even if you just drop to battery for a minute the fan may run for a while afterwards before stopping.

I can't say that my observations will apply to every SmartUPS SKU ever made, but be sure that your batteries are FULLY charged (could take a day on a new unit) and you aren't playing around with the input power for a decent period of time before concluding that the fan is "always" on.

There's no reason for the fan to always run on a line interactive UPS assuming good ambient temps and no high current charger or inverter activity.
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post #7 of 17 Old 05-26-2010, 01:00 PM
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What you want is an Emerson/Liebert Powersure PS1440RT2 (if 1080 watts is sufficient) or PS2200RT2 (if 1650 watts is sufficient). I have the former unit for a simple setup, it hides under my tv cabinet nicely. The fan really only runs when it's on battery or charging, not even when it gets warm (100F) which is probably bad for the batteries but long outages in my area are unheard of anyway.

If you are stuck with the one you have, consider that it probably uses a very standard 80mm fan, and there are many temperature-sensitive units available that you could swap in (if you are OK with voiding the warranty). I have done this on a few other power supply units with success. Just be sure the fan is sensitive enough to temp changes, and that you are monitoring the temperature to verify that the unit isn't overheating.
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post #8 of 17 Old 05-26-2010, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly73 View Post

I can't say that my observations will apply to every SmartUPS SKU ever made... There's no reason for the fan to always run on a line interactive UPS assuming good ambient temps and no high current charger or inverter activity.

I have done further research since starting this thread. There are APC SmartUPS models with single-speed, double-speed, and variable-speed fans. In some cases they run at the times commonly mentioned. In other cases, particularly the new series, they run all the time. Unfortunately APC product specifications and web FAQ do not address fan issues in the latest models. And customer support did not make this clear in common English as posted above.

It seems to me that complete product information and real customer support are becoming extinct. More products seem half-designed, -engineered, -tested, and -supported. And "quality control" seems frequently ignored.

Consequently I avoid being an early adopter (marketspeak) or on the bleeding edge (the way I see it). Before buying anything of significance
I spend a lot of time on the internet in forums, searching, and reading user experiences. Then get mad when I get burned anyway.

"Most people would die sooner than think, in fact they do so."  Bertrand Russell The ABC of Relativity, 1925

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post #9 of 17 Old 05-26-2010, 04:35 PM
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Sorry to hear that. I only do cyberpower, I don't like APC on the consumer side.
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post #10 of 17 Old 05-27-2010, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbug2 View Post

I have done further research since starting this thread. There are APC SmartUPS models with single-speed, double-speed, and variable-speed fans. In some cases they run at the times commonly mentioned. In other cases, particularly the new series, they run all the time. Unfortunately APC product specifications and web FAQ do not address fan issues in the latest models. And customer support did not make this clear in common English as posted above.

It seems to me that complete product information and real customer support are becoming extinct. More products seem half-designed, -engineered, -tested, and -supported. And "quality control" seems frequently ignored.

Consequently I avoid being an early adopter (marketspeak) or on the bleeding edge (the way I see it). Before buying anything of significance
I spend a lot of time on the internet in forums, searching, and reading user experiences. Then get mad when I get burned anyway.

In this case, why not just scrounge Ebay for a sufficient but older UPS unit that matches your spec, and ships without batteries? Batteries are cheap anyway, and you won't be guilted into preserving the warranty as on a new unit, so you can mod away til you're happy.
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post #11 of 17 Old 04-28-2011, 05:57 AM
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I just bought a smart APC 2200va unit from ebay. Like the Original Poster in this thread, my APC fan is on all the time too. I'd say 45dB is about right just guessing (and having purchased a dozen or so different PC fans with various ratings over the years). At any rate it's way too loud for a home theatre room. The 2200va IS the older style unit, yet the fan is on all the time too. By comparison I have a smart APC 1500va that is absolutely silent, unless it is on battery. I just assumed the 2200va would function the same way. Has anyone replaced the fan? I'm not scared to replace the fan myself, but I've not yet taken apart the unit to see how the fan is setup and how easy it will be to remove.

www.svc.com has a sale this week on a cooler master 80mm dual ball bearing "silent" case fan that is rated at 18dBA , 46 CFM, and 80,000 hours MTBF. It's only $6.99. That would fit the bill. I'll likely buy it after I verify tonight that the fan is an 80mm fan..

Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric
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post #12 of 17 Old 04-28-2011, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taskman View Post

Sorry to hear that. I only do cyberpower, I don't like APC on the consumer side.

CyberPower doesn't use true sine waves, like smart APC, they use simulated sine waves which can damage older electronics. Simulated sine waves won't hurt anything new, like computer power supplies, or new AV equipment, but I wouldn't put old equipment on it, or any electric motors etc.

Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric
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post #13 of 17 Old 07-20-2011, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I just bought a smart APC 2200va unit from ebay. Like the Original Poster in this thread, my APC fan is on all the time too. I'd say 45dB is about right just guessing (and having purchased a dozen or so different PC fans with various ratings over the years). At any rate it's way too loud for a home theatre room. The 2200va IS the older style unit, yet the fan is on all the time too. By comparison I have a smart APC 1500va that is absolutely silent, unless it is on battery. I just assumed the 2200va would function the same way. Has anyone replaced the fan? I'm not scared to replace the fan myself, but I've not yet taken apart the unit to see how the fan is setup and how easy it will be to remove.

www.svc.com has a sale this week on a cooler master 80mm dual ball bearing "silent" case fan that is rated at 18dBA , 46 CFM, and 80,000 hours MTBF. It's only $6.99. That would fit the bill. I'll likely buy it after I verify tonight that the fan is an 80mm fan..

Hey guys - I found out the OEM fan is a 24 volt 92 mm fan. That eliminates computer fans as replacements. I ended up buying this part from digikey. It is a Sunon fan with the Vapo-Bearing technology and is silent for all purposes, but still moves a decent amount of air! It is an awesome replacement for $5 + shipping. 70,000 hours MTBF means it should last 7 years or so before I have to replace it again.

259-1511-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...511-ND&x=0&y=0

Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric
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post #14 of 17 Old 10-24-2015, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by Archaea

I just bought a smart APC 2200va unit from ebay. Like the Original Poster in this thread, my APC fan is on all the time too. I'd say 45dB is about right just guessing (and having purchased a dozen or so different PC fans with various ratings over the years). At any rate it's way too loud for a home theatre room. The 2200va IS the older style unit, yet the fan is on all the time too. By comparison I have a smart APC 1500va that is absolutely silent, unless it is on battery. I just assumed the 2200va would function the same way. Has anyone replaced the fan? I'm not scared to replace the fan myself, but I've not yet taken apart the unit to see how the fan is setup and how easy it will be to remove.

www.svc.com has a sale this week on a cooler master 80mm dual ball bearing "silent" case fan that is rated at 18dBA , 46 CFM, and 80,000 hours MTBF. It's only $6.99. That would fit the bill. I'll likely buy it after I verify tonight that the fan is an 80mm fan..


Hey guys - I found out the OEM fan is a 24 volt 92 mm fan. That eliminates computer fans as replacements. I ended up buying this part from digikey. It is a Sunon fan with the Vapo-Bearing technology and is silent for all purposes, but still moves a decent amount of air! It is an awesome replacement for $5 + shipping. 70,000 hours MTBF means it should last 7 years or so before I have to replace it again.

259-1511-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...511-ND&x=0&y=0
Thanks for your post and follow up. I know it's been several years, but I've found myself in the same situation and located this thread through a Google search.

I've got two SUA2200 UPSs. They look like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-.../dp/B00076OZRQ

The fan noise is getting on my nerves. I like the UPS otherwise and would like to keep them both. But if I can silence them, or nearly silence them I'm going to have to replace them.

So, did you get that fan 4 years ago? Did it work out OK?
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post #15 of 17 Old 10-24-2015, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickStrobel View Post
Thanks for your post and follow up. I know it's been several years, but I've found myself in the same situation and located this thread through a Google search.

I've got two SUA2200 UPSs. They look like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-.../dp/B00076OZRQ

The fan noise is getting on my nerves. I like the UPS otherwise and would like to keep them both. But if I can silence them, or nearly silence them I'm going to have to replace them.

So, did you get that fan 4 years ago? Did it work out OK?
Nearly silent, and works like a champ several years later. I highly recommend that fan!

Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric
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post #16 of 17 Old 10-24-2015, 11:11 PM
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Great! Thanks for the quick reply.

To confirm, if you don't mind...

1) Big improvement over stock fan?

2) Are we talking about the same UPS model? See the Amazon link
http://www.amazon.com/APC-Smart-UPS-.../dp/B00076OZRQ

3) How tough was it to replace? Looks like a few screws off the back panel...
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post #17 of 17 Old 11-08-2015, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


CyberPower doesn't use true sine waves, like smart APC, they use simulated sine waves which can damage older electronics. Simulated sine waves won't hurt anything new, like computer power supplies, or new AV equipment, but I wouldn't put old equipment on it, or any electric motors etc.
That's not entirely true - they do also have true sine wave products, you just have to pay more for their "enterprise" equipment
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