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post #61 of 102 Old 10-24-2016, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Hopefully some of you have gotten a chance to play around with 1.2.0.2. I look forward to any feedback you can provide. But, as with all my projects, I want this to be complete and problem free as possible. So, I am already hard at work on making some improvements. Things I'm working on (and almost finished) for the next build include :
Improved font rendering quality.
A zoomable preview pane.
Improvements to gradients, including support for transparent as a color choice, adjustable color scale and gradient focus.
Support for rounded corners on elements, this also allows you to create circle and oval shapes.
Some minor bug fixes and error checking.

Last edited by meyer64; 10-24-2016 at 07:51 PM.
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post #62 of 102 Old 10-27-2016, 06:03 AM
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I love this app!! I just finished getting the "final version" of the MoviePoster app setup in my room (literally last night, check out my thread), and I'm thinking about scheduling my "hard and soft openings" in the next few weeks. I was looking around for something to make tickets, and found this. NO surprise at all that this came from the guy that made one of my other favorite apps!! I'll be downloading this to play with it later tonight, and making another donation!


I read thru the thread (very quickly), but have a couple of questions:
- Is the link on the page this latest build?
- Will I need to make that manual webservice updated you posted in Nov, or is that in the build now?
- It looks like the 5-up 1 stub paper is still the best solution for printing?
- How can you be from WI and know next to nothing about hockey?!?!?


I'm a really big fan of your stuff Meyer, keep up the great work you do for the community!!
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post #63 of 102 Old 10-27-2016, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
I love this app!! I just finished getting the "final version" of the MoviePoster app setup in my room (literally last night, check out my thread), and I'm thinking about scheduling my "hard and soft openings" in the next few weeks. I was looking around for something to make tickets, and found this. NO surprise at all that this came from the guy that made one of my other favorite apps!! I'll be downloading this to play with it later tonight, and making another donation!


I read thru the thread (very quickly), but have a couple of questions:
- Is the link on the page this latest build?
- Will I need to make that manual webservice updated you posted in Nov, or is that in the build now?
- It looks like the 5-up 1 stub paper is still the best solution for printing?
- How can you be from WI and know next to nothing about hockey?!?!?


I'm a really big fan of your stuff Meyer, keep up the great work you do for the community!!
Hi Doug, thanks for the compliments. I checked out your build thread. It looks like your room is coming together very nicely!

1. I've updated the first post to include links to the latest build.
movieposterapp.com/Downloads/TicketMaker/TicketMaker_1.2.0.2_Setup.msi
Keep an eye on this thread though, I'm finishing up another update that I mentioned a post or two ago that adds a few features. Nothing groundbreaking, but may be useful.

2. The latest build does include the webservice update, so no need to manually add the old patch anymore like with the old beta.

3. The 5up stock is my preference, yes. It seems to be the most universal and trouble free, at least for me.

4. Yeah.. the tiny town that I'm from never had a high school hockey team, so I never got into it. The mudducks to the west are the real hockey nuts around here. I've been told that I really need to go to a MN Wild game though.
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post #64 of 102 Old 10-27-2016, 06:50 AM
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I played with the new release the other day and everything worked smoothly. I did not print yet, but the interface seems easy to use.
Thanks again for this, it's very cool.
I'll post back when I play some more and actually try printing tickets.
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post #65 of 102 Old 10-27-2016, 06:06 PM
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Really dig it, works very intuitively! Ordered some ticket stock, now waiting to check out printing and incrementation.

Only question I have right now: Since I'm no image guru, I have no idea how to expand the logo I found to fill the box well. Is there a way to make it's background more transparent?

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post #66 of 102 Old 10-27-2016, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
I love this app!! I just finished getting the "final version" of the MoviePoster app setup in my room (literally last night, check out my thread), and I'm thinking about scheduling my "hard and soft openings" in the next few weeks. I was looking around for something to make tickets, and found this. NO surprise at all that this came from the guy that made one of my other favorite apps!! I'll be downloading this to play with it later tonight, and making another donation!


I read thru the thread (very quickly), but have a couple of questions:
- Is the link on the page this latest build?
- Will I need to make that manual webservice updated you posted in Nov, or is that in the build now?
- It looks like the 5-up 1 stub paper is still the best solution for printing?
- How can you be from WI and know next to nothing about hockey?!?!?


I'm a really big fan of your stuff Meyer, keep up the great work you do for the community!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
Really dig it, works very intuitively! Ordered some ticket stock, now waiting to check out printing and incrementation.

Only question I have right now: Since I'm no image guru, I have no idea how to expand the logo I found to fill the box well. Is there a way to make it's background more transparent?

Unfortunately right now the Fanart.tv webservice API seems to be down. I stumbled accross the issue earlier tonight while I was working on some enhancements. The program uses the API to get the links to some of the images, such as the movie logos. I don't have any control over their webservice, so hopefully it will come back online soon. The site is still up though, so you could go find the image yourself. Star Wars art is found here: https://fanart.tv/movie/11/star-wars-episode-iv-a-new-hope/ All of the logos on that site should already have a transparent background.
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post #67 of 102 Old 10-28-2016, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyer64 View Post
Unfortunately right now the Fanart.tv webservice API seems to be down. I stumbled accross the issue earlier tonight while I was working on some enhancements. The program uses the API to get the links to some of the images, such as the movie logos. I don't have any control over their webservice, so hopefully it will come back online soon. The site is still up though, so you could go find the image yourself. Star Wars art is found here: https://fanart.tv/movie/11/star-wars-episode-iv-a-new-hope/ All of the logos on that site should already have a transparent background.

Sooooo, you're sayyyying that I probably should've watched your video??


I just downloaded the app, installed it, and started playing. I used your examples on this thread as design ideas, and went out and found some images that I liked to plunk in there.


I guess when their API comes back up those 3 image fields will be auto-populated? I never thought that was the case, I just figured everyone had better graphics design skills than I do.


I guess this is really all your fault, b/c the app made it so easy to just plug in and play w/my own Custom Images.
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post #68 of 102 Old 10-28-2016, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
Sooooo, you're sayyyying that I probably should've watched your video??


I just downloaded the app, installed it, and started playing. I used your examples on this thread as design ideas, and went out and found some images that I liked to plunk in there.


I guess when their API comes back up those 3 image fields will be auto-populated? I never thought that was the case, I just figured everyone had better graphics design skills than I do.


I guess this is really all your fault, b/c the app made it so easy to just plug in and play w/my own Custom Images.
LOL, well I'm glad you found it easy to edit manually at least! The API is back up now. So you should just be able to search for 'Star Wars' pick the right movie from the list, put in your showtime, and hit the make ticket button. The program will download and apply images and metadata (rating, runtime, etc) automatically as long as the field bindings are set.
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post #69 of 102 Old 10-28-2016, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samcat View Post
(wish list item...) Will there be, at some point, the ability to run this with parameters from the command line. I currently have a touch screen kiosk outside my theater where I can have anyone choose a movie by perusing a database using Movie Collector by Collectorz.com. What would be really cool would be to select the movie from there and have the selected movie information prepopulate your application so that tickets could be printed right from the kiosk. (just like a real movie theater)
@samcat I'm working on adding support for command line parameters. This will allow you to execute a command and have the program automatically search for a movie by title or imdbid, generate the tickets, and send it to the printer with no user interaction. Do you have any limitations of the command line structure that you could use for your use case with the kiosk set up you have? If anyone else has a use case for auto generating tickets based on command line parameters, i'd be interested to know how you plan to use it.

Right now I have the following parameters defined:

-l or --pagelayout
Parameter=String, full file path to the page layout file to use.
Sets the page layout to use.

-d or --printer"
Parameter=String, Windows print queue name
Sets the printer to use. Specify by Windows Printer Name. The default Windows printer is used if an invalid name is specified.

-f or --ticketfile
Parameter=String, full file path to ticket file to use as the template.
Ticket File to open.

-i or --imdb
Parameter=String, imdb ID
Imdb number for movie. this takes precedence if -i and -n are both used.

-n or --moviename
Parameter=String, Movie name
Name of movie to search for. The top result is automatically selected.

-o or --output
Parameter=String, full file path and name of output file.
File name to save png image.

-g or --gui
Parameter=String, value for gui mode
Sets GUI state. Full is used by default. Valid options: none, full, notify

-s or --showtime
Parameter=String, datetime representation of the desired showtme
Sets the showtime. This is flexible format datetime value.

-q or --quit
Exits the application immediately after printing. This option is automatically enabled when using gui options 'notify' or 'none'.

-p or --print
Parameter=Integer, number of tickets to print
Initiates a print job with the current settings

Last edited by meyer64; 10-28-2016 at 07:35 AM.
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post #70 of 102 Old 10-29-2016, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyer64 View Post
The biggest problem with the Avery 16154 ticket stock is that many printers don't do edge to edge printing, especially laser printers. So you might end up with some white space on the edge of your tickets.
My preference is the 5-up, 1 stub paper from perforatedpaperonline. They work well in my HP Color Laserjet. Each ticket is 2x6" so you can punch them apart into groups of 2 and run them through a 4x6 photo printer as well.
Photo paper would work fine if you plan to cut apart the tickets instead of using perforated paper.

I know next to nothing about Hockey, but it would be easy to change out the images on the NFL template, if that would work for you. I made up with that template in about 5 minutes, mostly just to give an example of what can be done. With the new editor features I'm working on its much easier to create your own designs than it was before. My hope is that some people will create and share more templates over time.


I'm trying to make a hockey template and hope to post it later if it comes out okay. One quick ? - With the helmets on the football template - how to do you get them to be "see through" - meaning that you can see the field behind it from within the facemask? Hope I explained that well enough. It seems like its layered or something, but I can't figure it out.....I tried "send to back" / "bring forward".

In this link - you'll see the white background - is there away to make that disappear so I can just dump the logo down -

https://www.google.com/search?q=toro...xx2BmEqIJ2M%3A
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post #71 of 102 Old 10-29-2016, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediaman98 View Post
I'm trying to make a hockey template and hope to post it later if it comes out okay. One quick ? - With the helmets on the football template - how to do you get them to be "see through" - meaning that you can see the field behind it from within the facemask? Hope I explained that well enough. It seems like its layered or something, but I can't figure it out.....I tried "send to back" / "bring forward".

In this link - you'll see the white background - is there away to make that disappear so I can just dump the logo down -

https://www.google.com/search?q=toro...xx2BmEqIJ2M%3A
The images I used have a transparent background. When you save images off google, make sure you save the original file, not the preview. Sometimes the preview image formats get changed and doesn't preserve transparency. Some image file formats don't support true transparency either. I usually search for png images. A couple of good sites for sports logos that you might find useful are:
http://www.thesportsdb.com/team/134837
and
http://www.sportslogos.net/

Feel free to send me a copy of the template you're working on if need some help.
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post #72 of 102 Old 10-30-2016, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Since many of you seem to be creating tickets for sporting events, I decided I'd try to figure out a way to better support that use case. What I came up with is to allow user definable fields that can be bound to elements. This is still very much a work in progress. My current plan is to import data from a spreadsheet or data file of some sort containing the data to bind to. In order to develop this idea, I've created a spreadsheet that some of you might find useful, so I thought I'd post it now. This document contains the entire 2016 NFL schedule, along with links to team logos and artwork. You can use this to obtain images that you may want to use for your own custom tickets. Eventually, I'll do the same for other leagues. Of course if one of you takes on the task, let me know.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10j5IH-ipLn7BF2yduVilcCM98YdCMqPzH7TOkCIFHB0/edit?usp=sharing
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post #73 of 102 Old 10-31-2016, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by meyer64 View Post
@samcat I'm working on adding support for command line parameters. This will allow you to execute a command and have the program automatically search for a movie by title or imdbid, generate the tickets, and send it to the printer with no user interaction. Do you have any limitations of the command line structure that you could use for your use case with the kiosk set up you have? If anyone else has a use case for auto generating tickets based on command line parameters, i'd be interested to know how you plan to use it.

Right now I have the following parameters defined:

-l or --pagelayout
Parameter=String, full file path to the page layout file to use.
Sets the page layout to use.

-d or --printer"
Parameter=String, Windows print queue name
Sets the printer to use. Specify by Windows Printer Name. The default Windows printer is used if an invalid name is specified.

-f or --ticketfile
Parameter=String, full file path to ticket file to use as the template.
Ticket File to open.

-i or --imdb
Parameter=String, imdb ID
Imdb number for movie. this takes precedence if -i and -n are both used.

-n or --moviename
Parameter=String, Movie name
Name of movie to search for. The top result is automatically selected.

-o or --output
Parameter=String, full file path and name of output file.
File name to save png image.

-g or --gui
Parameter=String, value for gui mode
Sets GUI state. Full is used by default. Valid options: none, full, notify

-s or --showtime
Parameter=String, datetime representation of the desired showtme
Sets the showtime. This is flexible format datetime value.

-q or --quit
Exits the application immediately after printing. This option is automatically enabled when using gui options 'notify' or 'none'.

-p or --print
Parameter=Integer, number of tickets to print
Initiates a print job with the current settings
Let me dig up how Movie Collector does their command line stuff... I recall that they use an XML file for exporting info... but need to re familiarize with how they do things....

Samcat.
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post #74 of 102 Old 11-01-2016, 12:24 PM
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It looks like I can export a current movie that I'm looking at in MovieCollector into an xml file or a text file. I'm thinking the easiest would be to export it to a text file.

An example output of the text file is:
"Title";"IMDb Number";"Showtime"
"Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter";"1611224";"11/1/2016 8:00 PM"

There are a ton of other parameters that you can export but these should be enough, I think, to get a ticket printed...

A screen scrape of the export capabilities is in the attached thumbnail.

If all works as I'm thinking, I would select a movie from within MovieCollector, export it to a hardcoded location and filename set up in MovieCollector... A batch process then looks for that file at a predetermined time, parses it, and creates a command line output using the TicketMaker parameters which in turn prints the tickets.

I created a user field of "Showtime" within the MovieCollector program that I could use as the --showtime parameter in TicketMaker.
I would just have to edit that field before I export. I don't see any way around that as the showtime is dynamic depending on when you want to watch.

(As I'm not a programmer, please let me know if there is a better way to do this...)


Also... Does the --print Parameter also let you choose the print layout or do we need another parameter specifically for print layout?


samcat
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post #75 of 102 Old 11-01-2016, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samcat View Post
It looks like I can export a current movie that I'm looking at in MovieCollector into an xml file or a text file. I'm thinking the easiest would be to export it to a text file.

An example output of the text file is:
"Title";"IMDb Number";"Showtime"
"Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter";"1611224";"11/1/2016 8:00 PM"

There are a ton of other parameters that you can export but these should be enough, I think, to get a ticket printed...

A screen scrape of the export capabilities is in the attached thumbnail.

If all works as I'm thinking, I would select a movie from within MovieCollector, export it to a hardcoded location and filename set up in MovieCollector... A batch process then looks for that file at a predetermined time, parses it, and creates a command line output using the TicketMaker parameters which in turn prints the tickets.

I created a user field of "Showtime" within the MovieCollector program that I could use as the --showtime parameter in TicketMaker.
I would just have to edit that field before I export. I don't see any way around that as the showtime is dynamic depending on when you want to watch.

(As I'm not a programmer, please let me know if there is a better way to do this...)


Also... Does the --print Parameter also let you choose the print layout or do we need another parameter specifically for print layout?


samcat
To specify the print layout:

-l or --pagelayout
Parameter=String, full file path to the page layout file to use.
Sets the page layout to use.


Do you happen to be a PLEX user? I just got a crazy idea of a way to send a command to TicketMaker from within the Plex Web interface. My vision is add a basic web server to the TicketMaker app. I already have experience in this and a lot of code I could re use from my MoviePoster program. The web server would allow you to execute a command via an http POST command, or by entering parameters in a simple form. Then, I'd create a browser extension that adds a button to the movie details in the Plex Web interface to send the command to TicketMaker. So the process would be browse the movies via the plex web interface... view the movie details (you could even watch trailers and such if you want to.) then hit the TicketMaker icon and select your showtime and number of tickets. It should work and is interesting enough that I might actually use it myself
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post #76 of 102 Old 11-03-2016, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by meyer64 View Post
To specify the print layout:

-l or --pagelayout
Parameter=String, full file path to the page layout file to use.
Sets the page layout to use.


Do you happen to be a PLEX user? I just got a crazy idea of a way to send a command to TicketMaker from within the Plex Web interface. My vision is add a basic web server to the TicketMaker app. I already have experience in this and a lot of code I could re use from my MoviePoster program. The web server would allow you to execute a command via an http POST command, or by entering parameters in a simple form. Then, I'd create a browser extension that adds a button to the movie details in the Plex Web interface to send the command to TicketMaker. So the process would be browse the movies via the plex web interface... view the movie details (you could even watch trailers and such if you want to.) then hit the TicketMaker icon and select your showtime and number of tickets. It should work and is interesting enough that I might actually use it myself
I am not currently a PLEX user. It's on my long list of "things I want to do" but right now I just don't have time for...
I like your idea though! Unfortunately I'm unable to help with this one...

samcat
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post #77 of 102 Old 11-04-2016, 10:30 AM
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Meyer64: great ticket program. Started working with it in a few minutes. PM'd you for some questions..Here is a quick model..
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post #78 of 102 Old 11-04-2016, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I've just uploaded Version 1.3.0.0 There have been some changes under the hood to improve performance slightly as well as to support the new command line options. It is possible that some of those changes broke things that used to work just fine. Therefore, I consider this a beta build.

Notable new features include:

-Improved font rendering quality.
-A zoomable preview pane.
-Improvements to gradients, including support for transparent as a color choice, adjustable color scale and gradient focus.
-Support for rounded corners on elements, this also allows you to create circle and oval shapes. Note: elements with rounded corners can only have a boarder on either all sides or none.
-Support for command line options as outlined in a previous post.
-Added a preview handler for the Windows Explorer preview pane. - this only works for files saved with Version 1.3 of TicketMaker, older .ticx files do not contain the necessary data. Old files that are opened and resaved with version 1.3 will have the preview data added to the file.
-Some minor bug fixes and error checking.
-Files saved with 1.3 are able to be opened with previous versions, 1.3 exclusive features are simply ignored in older versions.

Download here:
http://movieposterapp.com/Downloads/...Beta_Setup.msi

IMPORTANT: You should uninstall old versions before installing Version 1.3. If you have a registered install, the registration data will remain intact.

As always, bug reports, feature requests, comments, suggestions, etc are always welcome.
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post #79 of 102 Old 11-05-2016, 03:19 AM
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Hmmm...

In order to do some quality testing (or *maybe* because I didn't read your whole post) I installed the new version on top of the old one, and it crashed. Like. every. time. Whenever I told it to render a ticket it crashed. Uninstalling from your msi file (select repair or uninstall) didn't work. Uninstalling from the control panel didn't work. The only thing that eventually fixed it was renaming the "Great Dane Cinema" folder to "GDC" and then re-installing.

Everything is working well now, continuing with the testing.
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post #80 of 102 Old 11-09-2016, 04:37 PM
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Whats the fastest way to get a picture in that box on the left? I just have that to fill for my first ticket..Thanks in advance

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post #81 of 102 Old 11-10-2016, 06:31 AM
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Just donated, thanks meyer64 for the great programs that you maintain here on AVS..

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post #82 of 102 Old 11-11-2016, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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As I mentioned previously, I've been working on adding support for user definable fields. I made some pretty good progress last night and made up a video of the new feature in action. I still have a little bit of polishing to do before its ready for release though. I think those of you who like to make tickets for sporting events will really like this....


if you want to look at the formatting of the csv file used in this example, its available as a google sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...HB0/edit#gid=0
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post #83 of 102 Old 11-13-2016, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been working on making a User Defined csv file for the 2016-2017 NBA season. I have it to a usable point. You'll be able to import the csv in the next version of TicketMaker. For now, the logo links might be useful to some of you so I'm posing a link tot he file on Google Sheets. there are 3 styles of team logos on the sheet to choose from for each team.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Here is a quick NBA template I made up using the above csv. The following tickets are all generated by the same .ticx file. I simply changed the bindings for the team logos for the different versions.



Last edited by meyer64; 04-24-2017 at 02:11 PM.
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post #84 of 102 Old 11-30-2016, 06:57 PM
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I have some Avery 16154 paper left over and after reading through the thread seems like 5 up 1 stub is the preferred for this. How is the quality on Avery with Laser Printer? I have a Dell Laser printer and trying to see if the quality will be good enough.
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post #85 of 102 Old 12-01-2016, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vemulasri View Post
I have some Avery 16154 paper left over and after reading through the thread seems like 5 up 1 stub is the preferred for this. How is the quality on Avery with Laser Printer? I have a Dell Laser printer and trying to see if the quality will be good enough.
It will probably be fine. I prefer my HP laser printer. At least on the equipment I have, the tickets come out sharper and with brighter colors on my laser printer than they do on my inkjet. But, then again, my inkjet is a bit old and not exactly top of the line either.
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post #86 of 102 Old 04-29-2017, 08:22 PM
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So I know this is an old thread but, any chance we can get a 4K logo along with Dolby Atmos one too?

Edit: Nevermind, did some digging around in the settings and found them.

Last edited by ScottSFA; 04-29-2017 at 08:34 PM.
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post #87 of 102 Old 05-24-2017, 02:56 PM
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Hey meyer64,

I saw you have as a printing option "5-up, 1 tab" in 8.5"x11". Where do you get these?

For what it's worth, I tried the "5-up, 1 tab" in 7"x11" that you recommended from perforatedpaperonline.com, but my printer doesn't seem to like the untraditional 7"x11" size. I think the 8.5"x11" would be a good solution if I could find it.

Thanks so much for your insight!
ak
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post #88 of 102 Old 05-26-2017, 03:13 AM
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It looks amazing!

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post #89 of 102 Old 05-31-2017, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akdb8r View Post
Hey meyer64,

I saw you have as a printing option "5-up, 1 tab" in 8.5"x11". Where do you get these?

For what it's worth, I tried the "5-up, 1 tab" in 7"x11" that you recommended from perforatedpaperonline.com, but my printer doesn't seem to like the untraditional 7"x11" size. I think the 8.5"x11" would be a good solution if I could find it.

Thanks so much for your insight!
ak
Never mind! I was able to resolve this and (with much effort) finally get my printer to print on 7x11.

On another note, if you're still taking requests: I'd love to have the ability to print different tickets on the same sheet (e.g., instead of printing five of the same ticket on "5-up, 1 tab" having the ability to print five different tickets on the same sheet).

Many thanks for all your hard work, Meyer64!
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post #90 of 102 Old 06-02-2017, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akdb8r View Post
Never mind! I was able to resolve this and (with much effort) finally get my printer to print on 7x11.

On another note, if you're still taking requests: I'd love to have the ability to print different tickets on the same sheet (e.g., instead of printing five of the same ticket on "5-up, 1 tab" having the ability to print five different tickets on the same sheet).

Many thanks for all your hard work, Meyer64!
Sorry, I missed your previous question. I'm glad you got it working. I'm sure it depends on your printer. For example I have an HP laserjet that keeps the page centered in the tray even when using smaller sizes. So for me the 8.5x11 and 7x11 5-up layouts are pretty much interchangeable. However, some printers keep the smaller page sizes positioned to one side of the print tray. Those will obviously behave differently. Keep in mind that you can always make a copy of the default page layouts (or make a new one from scratch) and adjust the layouts to meet your needs.

The way that the print engine formats the layouts and increments fields like ticket numbers doesn't really accommodate mixing different layouts on the same print job. One thing that would be possible is to add an option to start printing tickets at a particular ticket location on the layout. for example, using a 5 up sheet, you could print 3 tickets of one layout. Then load the same sheet in the printer and print 2 of second type with a parameter telling it to start printing at ticket position 4. It would skip the first 3 ticket slots on the page and start at the fourth. Would that fit your needs?
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