2009 BCS National Championship Game in 3D - Gators vs. Sooners! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 52 Old 01-08-2009, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Why do these people have 3D glasses upside down?




Because many theaters had their projectors setup incorrectly and the left and right offset were reversed.

As it turned out, 3 out of the 4 theaters showing the game where I was had the feed reversed. Some people had left in the first several minutes after having shaky effects and 3D seemed to be a gimmick who's time had not come.

After 15 minutes of "gimicks" and trouble real trouble reading the graphics, I started playing with the glasses - only to find out that 3D REALLY WORKED IF YOU TURNED THE GLASSES UPSIDE DOWN.

So we spread the word to turn the glasses upside down.

I can only say one thing....

WOW

This is no gimick - its the real thing (however, clearly if 75% of the theaters can have it backwards, there are bound to be MANY people who were underwhelmed this evening).

The depth of the field was amazing.

They used very few cameras and thus did not always have the best shots, however when someone walked in front of one shooting the field it certainly made everyone jump.

While there were no Disney type effects of things coming out at you, it was more like looking out an opening at the field.

Fox used very minimal graphics - and the graphics (once the glasses were upside down) seemed to float at the front of the picture.

This was every bit as good as the 3D you see at Disney.

Were their glitches? Obviously. We emailed the CEO of the Company from the theater and she assured us that the broadcast was being delivered correctly, the problem was local (which became evident as 3 theaters were wrong and 1 was correct).

But this is clearly ready for Primetime if you can make sure the left side is always offset to the left and not to the right.

I am curious if any others attended showings and if the did not have the WOW factor, did they try and turn the glasses upside down as well.
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post #2 of 52 Old 01-08-2009, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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post #3 of 52 Old 01-08-2009, 09:43 PM
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The theater I was at (Wynnsong 16 in Des Moines, IA) figured out the polarity was reversed and fixed it within the first fifteen minutes... so we could wear our glasses right side up. At first, we did watch with the glasses upside down.
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post #4 of 52 Old 01-08-2009, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brew View Post

The theater I was at (Wynnsong 16 in Des Moines, IA) figured out the polarity was reversed and fixed it within the first fifteen minutes... so we could wear our glasses right side up. At first, we did watch with the glasses upside down.

I wonder how many theaters NEVER figured it out?
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post #5 of 52 Old 01-08-2009, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BeachComber View Post

I wonder how many theaters NEVER figured it out?

That's a scary thought. Props to the staff at the Wynnsong 16 in Johnston, IA (Des Moines) for getting it right. They saw that many people were wearing the glasses upside down and knew something was wrong.

I am hoping others will chime in on this. Very interesting experience, to say the least.
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post #6 of 52 Old 01-08-2009, 09:51 PM
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We had the same issue with swapped polarization at the Rave theater north of Cincinnati. We also flipped our glasses upside down before the projectionist fixed the polarization around the end of the first quarter.

Once corrected... words simply cannot describe the experience! I would say it's equivalent to the jump from SD to HD. Now - how do we get this in the home? A 3D Blu-ray standard will be a nice first step, but live sports is where it's at for me...
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post #7 of 52 Old 01-08-2009, 09:52 PM
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The theater I was at also had the polarity reversed but it was corrected after I think the first quarter. We too had our glasses upside down and I said something to the usher.

Other than that, this technology is ready for primetime. That was outstanding, baring the FOX college football production. It reminded me of the awe of the first time I saw HD.
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post #8 of 52 Old 01-08-2009, 10:06 PM
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So from the other thread, I take it no one had heard anything doing an NHL game like this? I really want to see the NHL do this in 3D.
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post #9 of 52 Old 01-08-2009, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber View Post


I can only say one thing....

WOW

This is no gimick - its the real thing (however, clearly if 75% of the theaters can have it backwards, there are bound to be MANY people who were underwhelmed this evening).

The depth of the field was amazing.

They used very few cameras and thus did not always have the best shots, however when someone walked in front of one shooting the field it certainly made everyone jump.

While there were no Disney type effects of things coming out at you, it was more like looking out an opening at the field.

Fox used very minimal graphics - and the graphics (once the glasses were upside down) seemed to float at the front of the picture.

This was every bit as good as the 3D you see at Disney.

Properly done stereo HD can give you the 'WOW' factor. Glad to hear this went well, aside from the initial glitch.

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post #10 of 52 Old 01-08-2009, 10:38 PM
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No such issue at the Rave theater in Hurst, Tx. The image was amazing. Very distinct perception of depth from the field-level cameras. Individual players, the sideline and even the crowd existed on different planes of view. The default high, wide angle sideline camera shot used in a typical broadcast for each play was rarely shown in this game as it didn't provide the 3D pop of the field level angles. There were almost no commercial interruptions, and a separate broadcast team calling the game specifically for the 3D presentation made for a very unique football viewing experience.

Main drawbacks were the lack of a scoreboard ticker - thus the lack of a game clock - and fewer replays than a normal broadcast. But the incredible 3D images more than made up for these shortcomings.
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post #11 of 52 Old 01-08-2009, 10:40 PM
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First thing I said when walking out was this is going to make people a LOT of money. I could easily see sports fans going to all 7 games of an NBA Finals/World Series/Stanley Cup if it were in 3D.

Me personally, I'd love see soccer and NASCAR in 3D and wouldn't hesitate to pay a premium for them. In fact, I'm not even much of an NBA All Star Sat Night person but I will probably take my brother, who is and couldn't make it to the BCS game tonight.
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post #12 of 52 Old 01-08-2009, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinhmen View Post

No such issue at the Rave theater in Hurst, Tx. The image was amazing. Very distinct perception of depth from the field-level cameras. Individual players, the sideline and even the crowd existed on different planes of view. The default high, wide angle sideline camera shot used in a typical broadcast for each play was rarely shown in this game as it didn't provide the 3D pop of the field level angles. There were almost no commercial interruptions, and a separate broadcast team calling the game specifically for the 3D presentation made for a very unique football viewing experience.

Main drawbacks were the lack of a scoreboard ticker - thus the lack of a game clock - and fewer replays than a normal broadcast. But the incredible 3D images more than made up for these shortcomings.

I guesstimated it was 4 or 5 cameras max (though I was only expecting 3). However, I was somewhat surprised at the replays on the first disputed call when they showed it from 3 or 4 different angles (again I assumed they would not have had as many replay machines in place given the few number of camera positions).

The field cameras clearly were the best 3D shots as you noted.

Interesting you put the lack of a scoreboard or ticker as a negative as most people on AVS complain the graphics take up too much screen real estate.

During one of the breaks, they showed a surfing thing (which I originally thought was an Oakley ad) which showed amazing depth in the sweet spot of the waves.

I am really curious how the production team worked on this. I guess that they really did not wear glasses but only saw one side of a picture (2D) when operating the camera and in the booth.
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post #13 of 52 Old 01-08-2009, 11:22 PM
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There is nothing wrong with a constant on screen graphic. The problem most have is the real estate taken up. Minimalism is desired.
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post #14 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 12:13 AM
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Champaign, IL had it all wrong on the only theater. Luckily there was a 3d photographer in the room who told everyone the upside down trick. I even informed the manager at halftime and he was clueless... After the game I talked to him and apparently his fatass was too lazy to call Cinedigm's hotline to figure out the problem. His response was he checked the glasses where Bolt was playing and they were fine so it was the feed that was screwed up. He even claimed that they didn't change their projectors at all...they just pressed buttons.

I put in a request for their banner (it was a historic night afterall) so their manager is supposed to call tomorrow. Good to have this knowledge so I can inform him of the incompetence of his staff.
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post #15 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 12:20 AM
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Also wanting to add my thoughts to the discussion regarding the broadcast itself...(crossposted from another forum)

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I see a lot of potential but they have a ways to go. For those of us who remember what the football looked like before FOX threw 20 overlays on up the screen, this was a nice blast from the past. In short, no running clock (although they did their best to show the play clocks in their shots of the action), no yellow 1st down line, and no frills. They would flash an occasional overlay of stats and coming in and out of TV TOs they would show the score and time left on the clock. As for my fears....They had the FOX "B" crew down the game (Kenny Albert and Tim Ryan) and 7.1 sound (anyone else who saw this want to hunt down and shoot the lady that kept screaming her name in the right rear speaker the whole 2nd half?). Now for the bad. Not sure if this was national but the glasses didn't work unless you had them on upside down. They also had A LOT of trouble in the 1st part of the 3rd Quarter with what reminded me of rain fade on the sat. We didn't have bad weather here tonight so I'm interested to know if it was national. Finally, whenever they'd move the cameras too fast the image would jump and almost force your eyes to cross. At times they seemed scared to move the cameras at all so a lot of punt returns were missed...and it was obviously being filmed by tech geeks who had no experience with filming football as A LOT of play action passes and draws ended up out of frame. In their defense, they were obviously using the game as an experiment since it seemed like the shots got better as the game finished up.

Now the good... I didn't think much of it at first but it really made it's mark when I got home and turned on Sportscenter....the image at home seemed small and flat. Going from 3D to home theater in an hour really eliminates any thought of "pop" to the home picture. The content of the feed when it was "on" was awesome. I think they ran one Playstation ad a half and in the quarters that ad didn't run, they had some amazing 3D surfing/beach filler. The highlight from a PQ standpoint was in the postgame. The confetti looked like you could reach out and grab it as did the crystal NC ball. If they use footage from it as a trailer for what they can do, the Nelson TD catch on the Tebow jump pass is a surefire eye-popper. You saw him make the catch and then run right at you/the camera in crystal clear clarity. (The 3D cameras were opposite the HD cameras.) One other highlight shot would be when the Sooner Schooner (or whatever the wagon is called) came out during introductions.

In short, I think they will need to work on lowering the premium of the ticket down to $5 over a standard movie ticket in order to reach the masses. Their next sporting event is NBA Sat night. If I was a fan, I'd consider going at a lower price. OTOH, I would probably pay $25 to see the MLB All-Star game (maybe $20 for the HR derby)...which since it's FOX could happen. The one question I have is whether this will be released on Blu-Ray (even if it is just with the cheapo Blue/Red 3D glasses.) If it is, I'd highly recommend those of you who are sports fans or even those of you who are curious about 3D to go out and buy it.

And yeah...of all the main sports I think baseball is probably the best suited for 3D while they get the kinks worked out with filming a high speed game like football or hockey. It would also be easier to set up cameras for...one behind the catcher, one from centerfield zoomed in behind the pitcher, and one on the roof that follows the path of a batted ball. It'll be interesting to see what the NBA event looks like.
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post #16 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msajeff View Post

Champaign, IL had it all wrong on the only theater. Luckily there was a 3d photographer in the room who told everyone the upside down trick. I even informed the manager at halftime and he was clueless... After the game I talked to him and apparently his fatass was too lazy to call Cinedigm's hotline to figure out the problem. His response was he checked the glasses where Bolt was playing and they were fine so it was the feed that was screwed up. He even claimed that they didn't change their projectors at all...they just pressed buttons.

I put in a request for their banner (it was a historic night afterall) so their manager is supposed to call tomorrow. Good to have this knowledge so I can inform him of the incompetence of his staff.

There were 4 theaters in the complex I was in. 3 were wrong. 1 was right.

Despite that, it was NEVER corrected. I even told some employees that they should announce it in the theater (to turn the glasses upside down). They responded that even if they did, many people still didn't understand it.

Despite having a laptop with 3G cards and emails to the CEO, she informed us that the feed was correct (somewhat questionable now considering it appears more theaters were wrong than right) and that the issue was localized (apparently in MANY local theaters).

Quite frankly, I figured the feed was wrong and no one knew what it was supposed to look like so that's why it wasn't corrected nationally. Then when I found at that 1 of the 4 theaters had it correct, I realized that you really could change it locally.

On a side note, this reminds me of my experience with the first digital movie soundtrack, Terminator T2 - Judgement Day using CDS (Anyone even remember that).

There was 1 theater in NYC showing this in 70mm with CDS - ONLY ONE. I believe there was only 1 or 2 in LA as well (there were a few more using 35mm and CDS).

The NYC theater was a UA Theater on the East Side somewhere around 68th or so.

I went to it one Sunday in 1991 and at the start where the crushing of skulls and bones occurs, I realized the sound was moving right to left while the screen was moving left to right.

I went out to the lobby and informed them of the reversal of left and right channels and as god is my witness, they went to the ticket booth cash register and pushed some buttons to try and correct it there (the audio ran through the cash register). Needless to say, it did not work. After 10 minutes I could not take it any longer, got a refund a left. I was told the problem would be corrected during regular servicing on Tuesday.

So next Sunday I return. Think it was fixed?

This was NY. Again, probably 1 of less than 5 70mm theaters in the USA showing the title with CDS. And you think anyone else had even mentioned it? Is there any wonder CDS went by the wayside?

As I stated, for the first 15 minutes, I had a headache looking at graphics as they would shimmer and not focus correctly (which is why i took off the glasses and started playing around with them). I thought it was a nice gimick - but even told several people this was not ready for primetime.

Imagine the people who never turned the glasses upside down - or those that left in the first 15 minutes because of the issues? What will they tell their friends?
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post #17 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 12:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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a very good explanation of the issue here:

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post15504901

I'd love to know if they had it wrong at CES - even for a short period of time. That would have to be very embarrassing.
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post #18 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber View Post

I'd love to know if they had it wrong at CES - even for a short period of time. That would have to be very embarrassing.

Sounds like they had there own problems: http://2-wheeler.blogspot.com/2009/0...-bcs-game.html

I just wrote a not so nice little email to Carmike's HQ about the issue and management's refusal to call the Cinedigm tech support number they had for help. As I've said...thank god for the 3d photographer that told us the "trick" before the game actually started.
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post #19 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 01:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msajeff View Post

Sounds like they had there own problems: http://2-wheeler.blogspot.com/2009/0...-bcs-game.html

I just wrote a not so nice little email to Carmike's HQ about the issue and management's refusal to call the Cinedigm tech support number they had for help. As I've said...thank god for the 3d photographer that told us the "trick" before the game actually started.

Sound was not good at all in our theater (Despite having stadium seating and speakers galore). You could hear the play by play ok, but I do not think I heard anything from any surrounds or rears, nor do I think there was much of a stereo field in the front. We did not have all the issues noted in the blog you listed. I also noted a lip sync issue with the play by play team prior to the game. Interesting that everyone watching Fox says the only thing right was the 7.1 audio, lol.

For that much of a bail out at CES, I wonder if their picture was in sync? Out of sync you got a somewhat of an effect, but it was more gimick in nature and the graphics REALLY hurt trying to read them.

I agree with his statements about quick changes in camera angles, but found it more confusing before we realized the picture was out of sync.
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post #20 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msajeff View Post

Sounds like they had there own problems: http://2-wheeler.blogspot.com/2009/0...-bcs-game.html

I just wrote a not so nice little email to Carmike's HQ about the issue and management's refusal to call the Cinedigm tech support number they had for help. As I've said...thank god for the 3d photographer that told us the "trick" before the game actually started.

Link points to no blog entry.
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post #21 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msajeff View Post

Sounds like they had there own problems: http://2-wheeler.blogspot.com/2009/0...-bcs-game.html

Broken link.

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post #22 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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^^^^ looking at the date on his home page, it appears he lost all posts from 2009. It was there several hours ago.

This morning the Sr. VP Digital Television Technologies at Fox informed me that Fox had nothing to do with the 3D Broadcast except lend their name to it. He saw the broadcast in Vegas at CES and was quite disappointed with it as well, which again REALLY makes me wonder if the left/right pictures were reversed in Vegas as well, as that would had been my impression had we not finally figured out to flip the glasses.
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post #23 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 09:33 AM
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From USA Today

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BCS title game in 3-D: Jarring, but also 'jacked up'

By Michael Hiestand, USA TODAY

FREDERICKSBURG, Va. — You weren't reminded to turn off your cellphone in the Marquee Cinema theater showing Fox's 3-D coverage of Thursday's BCS title game.
After the crowd stood for the national anthem, it felt free to hoot — and sometimes groan when camera shots swiveled too fast and made you feel as if one of your eyes wasn't in sync with the other.

Based on 3-D testing, Fox avoided overhead shots that showed much of the field, in part because the 3-D effect is lost the farther the cameras are from the action. But game coverage that relied heavily on close-ups at times left you wondering what was happening on the field.

Fox announcer Kenny Albert, part of Fox's production crew devoted solely to its 3-D coverage — around the USA, prices ranged from $18-$20 — played up the novelty. He noted a snap "was high even in 3-D" and asked "does it hurt more in 3-D?"

For viewers, it sometimes did.

On-screen graphics were sometimes a bit jarring with the on-field action. Quick camera movements, which Fox had planned to avoid, were dizzying. But Fox, which planned to focus on tight shots for 3-D, made viewers feel they were on the sidelines or even on the field.

Said Reggie Thompson, a viewer from Lorton, Va., "forget about how they do it — it's jacked up. But it works better if you're glasses are upside-down."

Others in the audience echoed that opinion.


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post #24 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 09:34 AM
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I've been directly involved with stereo video for over 15 years. All it really takes to get it right, is someone who knows what it's supposed to look like doing a system check before showtime. As noted, there are a lot of places along the way that can get screwed up, but any one of them reversed can typically fix the problem that was seen last night.

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post #25 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 09:37 AM
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From Broadcasting & Cable

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CES: Sony, Fox Complete 3D HD Football Drive

By Glen Dickson -- Broadcasting & Cable

Las Vegas -- The 3D HD broadcast of the BCS college football championship game to VIP guests at the Paris Hotel in Las Vegas Thursday night was a bit like the University of Florida’s performance in the game itself: a shaky start with a solid finish.

Staged at the 2009 International Consumer Electronics Show, the broadcast, which was sponsored by Sony and produced by Fox using 3D HD production equipment from 3ality Digital, was plagued during the first half by audio problems—static, fade-outs and loud popping noises. 3ality and Sony executives said the audio hiccups were caused by malfunctioning satellite downlink equipment and were limited to the Paris Hotel location.

The 82 theaters nationwide that showed the 3D game didn’t experience any audio problems, said 3ality president Sandy Climan. One of those was the Rave theater in Las Vegas; CBS affiliate KLAS aired a report in Thursday's newscast showing happy fans at the Rave praising the "being there" effect of 3D.

Resetting the satellite receiver equipment during halftime solved the audio buffering problem at the Paris theater for the most part, with only intermittent audio glitches during the second half.

The video wasn’t affected. The 3D HD pictures, which were displayed by a Sony 4K digital cinema projector using image processors and 3D glasses from RealD, were mostly crisp, with only occasional blurs during quick camera pans, though the 3D cameras had trouble keeping up with kickoffs and long passes.

At times, the 3D images were stunning, perhaps never more so than when confetti filled the air at Dolphin Stadium in Miami to celebrate Florida’s 24-14 victory over Oklahoma. The confetti appeared to be floating off the screen and into the air in the Paris theater. Fox’s 3D graphics also consistently leapt off the screen.

Despite the audio problems, the combination of a competitive game and 3D HD pictures elicited a strong reaction from the crowd, with a few audience members leaping to their feet to celebrate big plays. Alec Shapiro, senior VP of Sony Electronics' Broadcast and Production Systems, described the event, which drew executives from networks, sports leagues and cable operators, as an overall success.

“We had a couple glitches, but for the first time doing an event of this size and scope, it went pretty smoothly,” said Shapiro.

Shapiro’s boss, Sony Chairman and CEO Sir Howard Stringer, also popped in to the Paris theater late in the second quarter to catch some of the 3D football action. Stringer, who had touted the 3D BCS production in his CES keynote address Thursday morning while showing off 3D HD sports and movie content, said he was mostly pleased with what he saw and that perfecting the 3D HD medium was a matter of “technical adjustments.”

“You can see the potential there,” said Stringer, who noted that Sony’s 3D HD demos in its booth, which used Playstation 3 game consoles and prototype LCD sets, had drawn long lines of CES attendees.

“In combination, we’ve advanced the cause of 3D a long way this week,” said Stringer.


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post #26 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

I've been directly involved with stereo video for over 15 years. All it really takes to get it right, is someone who knows what it's supposed to look like doing a system check before showtime. As noted, there are a lot of places along the way that can get screwed up, but any one of them reversed can typically fix the problem that was seen last night.

I noticed the problem when I got there shortly before broadcast and saw the titles on screen not focusing. My eyes aren't the best anymore but I know the closer objects should have been perfect for me. After a few strains, blinks and flip ups of the glasses I put them on upside down and then told the usher who had the projectionist correct the problem a bit into the game.
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post #27 of 52 Old 01-09-2009, 09:02 PM
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I was at the game in New Hartford, NY and I guess we were one of the theatres that had problems, but nobody figured out about flipping over the glasses. Everybody left before the end of the first quarter and they handed out refunds.
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post #28 of 52 Old 01-10-2009, 12:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by will7046 View Post

I was at the game in New Hartford, NY and I guess we were one of the theatres that had problems, but nobody figured out about flipping over the glasses. Everybody left before the end of the first quarter and they handed out refunds.

I do find it amazing that only one person (in Dallas) has posted that the theater had it right from the beginning. Of course, I wonder if being in Mr. Cuban's Hometown had anything to do with that.
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post #29 of 52 Old 01-10-2009, 12:52 AM
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Of course, I wonder if being in Mr. Cuban's Hometown had anything to do with that.

Why? What's he got to do with FOX, BCS, or 3D?

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post #30 of 52 Old 01-10-2009, 02:57 AM
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Any word on a Blu-ray version of this being available for sale. It would be interesting to see how this looked with all the bugs caused by live broadcast worked out. I would be a buyer. Thanks for any info.

Mike

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