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post #3001 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post
The real villain of this episode was Stan, his treasonous act was just beyond any reasonable facts of the real world, only in television would something like this happen and eaten up by clueless audiences as a great "Emmy moment" . P&E didn't win they were let go by an inept FBI agent, yes it was "reasonable" to this character but it was WRONG written all over it. Using your logic he's a "winner too" since he wasn't captured and tried for treason. But in reality none of these people write any history maybe their bosses could as did Reagan and Gorbachev.
Real world is never black and white. Have you ever heard of a genre tragedy? People make bad decision, not necessarily because it was badly written.
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post #3002 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 08:43 AM
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People keep saying it’s a bittersweet ending. It was all bitter. No one was happy. Maybe just Renee. She was either just the “ignorance is bliss” wife or the Russian spy who has not realized that her cover has not been blown yet.

But this is not a complaint. It was a fitting end to the series. P & E are back home, saving Gorbachev, but losing their kids.

Even, with the Cold War ending, would Henry and Paige want to see their parents again of they could? The kids will be pariahs in America once the word gets out that their parents were Soviet spies. That’s what happened to the children of the real life spies that were discovered. Their was always a suspicion that the kids knew about their parents’ true identities. I wouldn’t even think that Stan would be able to take care of Henry. An FBI agent who had Russian spies as neighbors and once they fled, he takes in the son? That wouldn’t raise suspicions at all.

My only complaint about the finale was that it was too short.
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post #3003 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 08:56 AM
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I was reminded of what Paige had said to Elizabeth a few episodes ago. When they were walking at night and Elizabeth wanted to be sure Paige was willing to continue on with the spy life. And Paige responded that she wasn't afraid to die. The only thing she was afraid of was being alone.

So Paige's final scene was fitting, left all alone, sitting in the empty cover apartment.
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post #3004 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by iamian View Post
Real world is never black and white. Have you ever heard of a genre tragedy? People make bad decision, not necessarily because it was badly written.
Concur. There is nothing “clueless” in acknowledging that treasonous acts occur in the real world; people are unpredictable, especially when emotions affect their decisions. Over the course of 6 seasons building relationships with the Jennings, Stan’s decisions in this finale were plausible if not flawed.
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post #3005 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Irwinroad View Post
When I saw Philip & Elizabeth on the train heading to Montreal I remembered reading this article

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/son-of...-out-1.4611958



"The family's story was so extraordinary, it inspired the FX Network's hit show The Americans. Vavilov has seen some of the series, so have his parents, who he said are now wealthy from business in Russia. He told CBC it reminds them of the initial excitement of their assignment."
Thanks for sharing that article
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post #3006 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by hooked01 View Post
Great use of music. Dire Straights’ “Brothers in Arms” and U2’s “With or Without You” were perfect for setting the mood for those scenes.

Reminded me of a Miami Vice episode, where's Crockett & Tubbs when you need them!
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post #3007 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by cyberguyjeff View Post
Reminded me of a Miami Vice episode, where's Crockett & Tubbs when you need them!
Yes. That Miami Vice episode sprang to mine when Brothers in Arms started playing. Vice is in the same era. Maybe Crockett and Tubbs will get a special assignment to go to Russia to track down the Jennings. They might have known Stan’s partner Amador when he worked in the Miami office. 😉. Sonny would blend right in with his collarless shirts and jacket and no socks.
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post #3008 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post
The real villain of this episode was Stan, his treasonous act was just beyond any reasonable facts of the real world, only in television would something like this happen and eaten up by clueless audiences as a great "Emmy moment" . P&E didn't win they were let go by an inept FBI agent, yes it was "reasonable" to this character but it was WRONG written all over it. Using your logic he's a "winner too" since he wasn't captured and tried for treason. But in reality none of these people write any history maybe their bosses could as did Reagan and Gorbachev.
If I shared your background, I would probably agree with you. My thinking, though, was that Stan's decision to let the Jennings go was driven by Stan's humanity, his genuinely close friendship with Philip and what I will not hesitate to call his love for Henry. Stan is neither stupid nor naive but he is a warm and caring person. There were no perfect answers to the problems that the discovery of Philip and Elizabeth's identities created but I think Stan's decision to let them go (and probably to take Henry in) was as close to right as any. Also, Philip and Elizabeth paid a huge price by giving up their children. Blood is blood, so that had to hurt, a lot.
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post #3009 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
If I shared your background, I would probably agree with you. My thinking, though, was that Stan's decision to let the Jennings go was driven by Stan's humanity, his genuinely close friendship with Philip and what I will not hesitate to call his love for Henry. Stan is neither stupid nor naive but he is a warm and caring person. There were no perfect answers to the problems that the discovery of Philip and Elizabeth's identities created but I think Stan's decision to let them go (and probably to take Henry in) was as close to right as any. Also, Philip and Elizabeth paid a huge price by giving up their children. Blood is blood, so that had to hurt, a lot.
That's very much how I saw it .. none of us are Perfect People, and Stan, at the end of the day, followed his Heart .. was it technically the thing to do for an FBI agent .. ?? Probably not .. but, Stan knew that Elizabeth and Phillip were still paying a high price for their Life .. and, we'll never know how things panned out for them in Russia ..

The loss of Paige and Henry as well as the loss of the Life in America they had grown accustomed to could be equated to a heavy sentence .. on the flip side, though, had Stan taken them in, it's highly likely the Death Penalty might have been in the cards .. not necessarily for the Espionage, but for the killings ..
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post #3010 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 10:41 AM
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Anyone else think the shocked reaction of Elizabeth looking through window leaving the train station was Paige being pulled off the train by border agents?
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post #3011 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 10:52 AM
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I remember the scene at the very beginning, when Stan was snooping around the Jennings garage.
Does anyone remember why Stan did this?
Why did he got suspicious back then? He wouldn't snoop around all his neighbours garages only because he is FBI.
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post #3012 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Peja View Post
Anyone else think the shocked reaction of Elizabeth looking through window leaving the train station was Paige being pulled off the train by border agents?
If memory serves, the final scene with Paige was her sitting, alone, on a bench .. she left the Train of her own volition, IMO ..
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post #3013 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 10:58 AM
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If memory serves, the final scene with Paige was her sitting, alone, on a bench .. she left the Train of her own volition, IMO ..
Yes of course. But in real time as it was shown Elizabeth had a very strong shocked reaction before we saw Paige standing on the dock and later alone on the bench. My first thought by that reaction was..... Paige got caught.
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post #3014 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:03 AM
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No Paige left on her own, without telling her parents.

There should be no controversy about that.
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post #3015 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Peja View Post
Yes of course. But in real time as it was shown Elizabeth had a very strong shocked reaction before we saw Paige standing on the dock and later alone on the bench. My first thought by that reaction was..... Paige got caught.

i don't think so. if she was caught she would have been escorted off the train, and the platform, by at least one cop.

She left the train on her own accord
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post #3016 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:08 AM
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No Paige left on her own, without telling her parents.

There should be no controversy about that.
There is no controversy at all and never was. The discussion is the momentary red herring when you saw Elizabeth looking out the window with horror on her face. Then we get to see Paige on the platform watching the train leave. That moment left room for guessing but only for that moment...
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post #3017 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:11 AM
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What a couple of nanoseconds?

They showed Paige right away.
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post #3018 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:17 AM
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What a couple of nanoseconds?

They showed Paige right away.
Yes, they did, 2 seconds (not nanoseconds) later.

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post #3019 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:20 AM
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Yeah? Well, that's like, just your opinion, man!
That's an understatement! Everything is "just our opinions": images with the blank spaces filled in by our minds.

And by the way, I have not missed one minute of the series. Waited weekly with great anticipation. And rightfully, without emotion, hated both those killers of decent innocent hard working people. I doubt you could add up the number of lives they destroyed. And even though it is just a fictitous story, we enjoy it because we can buy into it as if it were close to reality. So how could hating the evil perpetrated by those 2 be anything but a justifiable reaction by a sane person? I am a liberal by nature, but obviously not the bleeding heart type as some of you. But hell, what do I know. It's just my opinion.




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post #3020 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:24 AM
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Of course Elizabeth was looking out the window in shock .. her daughter was on the platform and the train was leaving .. I thought it was one of the most poignant moments in the Finale .. and then, Phillip went to join Elizabeth ..
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post #3021 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:33 AM
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No Paige left on her own, without telling her parents.

There should be no controversy about that.
Correct. There is no controversy. You are still missing the point. In a very nuanced show there was (to me) a real possibility that in the short gap between Elizabeth's reaction and Paige standing alone that the most serious outcome was Paige had been caught not just walking off on her own.
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post #3022 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CarlosFo View Post
I remember the scene at the very beginning, when Stan was snooping around the Jennings garage.
Does anyone remember why Stan did this?
Why did he got suspicious back then? He wouldn't snoop around all his neighbours garages only because he is FBI.
Because the KGB colonel was nabbed by a man and woman and the Jennings car was identified my make and model. They changed plates before coming home.

I realize it was the pilot, but they were later shown to have a "fleet" of cars to use in garages and such. So why risk using their personal vehicle?
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post #3023 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Peja View Post
Correct. There is no controversy. You are still missing the point. In a very nuanced show there was (to me) a real possibility that in the short gap between Elizabeth's reaction and Paige standing alone that the most serious outcome was Paige had been caught not just walking off on her own.
If Paige was apprehended by authorities on the train, then how could she have later been by herself in the safe house apartment where Claudia had her meetings with she and Elizabeth? I think most posters would agree that Paige couldn't have both been apprehended and later be sitting by herself in the safe house.
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post #3024 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post
There is no controversy at all and never was. The discussion is the momentary red herring when you saw Elizabeth looking out the window with horror on her face. Then we get to see Paige on the platform watching the train leave. That moment left room for guessing but only for that moment...
+1 Amen, You got exactly what I was thinking .

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What a couple of nanoseconds?

They showed Paige right away.
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Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post
Yes, they did, 2 seconds (not nanoseconds) later.
More than long enough to catch. With the tenseness and anticipation of the extended get away (or not get away) Paige getting caught was a very real possible outcome.

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Of course Elizabeth was looking out the window in shock .. her daughter was on the platform and the train was leaving .. I thought it was one of the most poignant moments in the Finale .. and then, Phillip went to join Elizabeth ..
Agreed, I guess I have a more vivid imagination than you do.

How many thought Phillip and Elizabeth were going to get a pop to the back of the head gazing off the bridge at mother Russia? Like I said, I have a vived imagination. YMMV.
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post #3025 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:47 AM
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I wonder if Paige went back and got her ID information.
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post #3026 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
If Paige was apprehended by authorities on the train, then how could she have later been by herself in the safe house apartment where Claudia had her meetings with she and Elizabeth? I think most posters would agree that Paige couldn't have both been apprehended and later be sitting by herself in the safe house.
Because it was a red herring and she obviously was not caught. This is about a potential outcome during two seconds of doubt. A lot can happen in my mind in two seconds.
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post #3027 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
If Paige was apprehended by authorities on the train, then how could she have later been by herself in the safe house apartment where Claudia had her meetings with she and Elizabeth? I think most posters would agree that Paige couldn't have both been apprehended and later be sitting by herself in the safe house.
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post #3028 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Peja View Post
Because it was a red herring and she obviously was not caught. This is about a potential outcome during two seconds of doubt. A lot can happen in my mind in two seconds.
Yeah, I get your point now. From the brief look we got of Elizabeth's face before the camera cut to Paige standing on the platform and obviously all alone, the implication was made, albeit briefly, that she might have been apprehended.
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post #3029 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
Hits Nail on Head ..
Except it was a screw (with our heads)
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post #3030 of 3176 Old 06-01-2018, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Peja View Post

How many thought Phillip and Elizabeth were going to get a pop to the back of the head gazing off the bridge at mother Russia? Like I said, I have a vived imagination. YMMV.
I was on edge waiting for them to get the Nina treatment any minute at some point somewhere.

I thought they were going to get the AK treatment at the border checkpoint.
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