Ray Donovan on SHO - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 1622 Old 07-09-2013, 06:38 PM
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Ted Levine = Frank Holman in The late great Crime Story.... Manhunter was terriffic, as was Thief... Michael Mann at his best

Thief and Manhunter, quite a one-two punch. It took forever to get a decent BD of MH, and it's just criminal that there's never been any decent disc of Thief as far as I know. A lot of big shot directors don't seem to have any respect for the home viewer - Cameron, Mann, Nolan ...

Eve: I thought I was through getting involved with men who were trouble. Falling in love on a look. I can't look at you.

Mickey: You have perfection about you. Your eyes have music. Your heart's the best part of your body. And when you move, every man, woman and child is forced to watch.
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post #32 of 1622 Old 07-10-2013, 12:29 AM
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While I've been entertained thus far, this is smacking me as a Sopranos redux. Sure the Mickey v. Ray dynamic is different, but I don't see that lasting more than this season...could be wrong. However, the family dynamic is eerily similar to the Sops, wifey wanting the perks, but not pay the price for Ray's success, a couple of teenage kids that are already skidding off the rails. The Bros and Ray's surrounding characters will generate the stories that will interest me...however, I hated the Sops family problems and those characters. I can see the same thing happening here.

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post #33 of 1622 Old 07-10-2013, 06:08 PM
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I believe Ray's man can legitimately be referred to as muscle. rolleyes.gif
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post #34 of 1622 Old 07-11-2013, 04:38 AM
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I believe Ray's man can legitimately be referred to as muscle. rolleyes.gif
My guess, given the Chai charm around his neck and his English-with-a-Hebrew-accent, is that he's ex-Shayetet 13.

Also, glad to see Katherine Moennig get some work after "L-Word" disappeared. Hopefully they give her more to do and say than just plying the Web at a computer, and saying "yes, boss".
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post #35 of 1622 Old 07-11-2013, 02:33 PM
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I wish they'd just made him a Cuban, they could have made that work.

Eve: I thought I was through getting involved with men who were trouble. Falling in love on a look. I can't look at you.

Mickey: You have perfection about you. Your eyes have music. Your heart's the best part of your body. And when you move, every man, woman and child is forced to watch.
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post #36 of 1622 Old 07-12-2013, 05:26 AM
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We thought the first part of the show was slow without much going on, but we soon realized, it ddn't matter, we were still sucked in and glued to the screen. Something about this show has really grabbed our attention and we are hooked. Just loving so much about this show, the characters, the story, everything.

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post #37 of 1622 Old 07-14-2013, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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A little help with information about that detective please. A bounty hunter or a private investigator of some sort?

Wild how Mickey killed the wrong priest. He didn't even seem phased by it.
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post #38 of 1622 Old 07-15-2013, 03:12 AM
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A little help with information about that detective please. A bounty hunter or a private investigator of some sort?
I had similar questions, but I suspect it's intentionally ambiguous for now as he was just introduced as a character tonight. Just planting seeds of question and confusion on the writers' part for now.

Given all the photos on HIS wall, many (so far) with red "X" over them (obviously whacked to settle whatever is the "score" that needs settling), I suspect these are all people who've somehow done some wrong to him that requires avenging. He's certainly obsessive compulsive, and also obviously has something over Mickey.

I thought I saw Ezra Goldman's picture on that same wall, along with Ray's... and also Mickey. So I'm guessing there is some dark past (which Ezra is obviously terrified about, relating to Mickey's reappearance that Ray promised he would "take care of, trust me") involving them in some prior life circumstance. This guy (bad guy, but somehow with government law enforcement credentials and related connections, managing to get Mickey out 5 years early) is somehow involved with whatever that past situation was.

I think it's just too early for us to understand what's really the back story here, but I'm sure it will be revealed soon. This was the tease.

Kind of disappointing to see Ray's daughter fall under the influence so easily, but I guess that's kids with too much easy temptation available for you.

Can't wait to see Katherine Moennig and her girl friend, after work.

Great show.
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post #39 of 1622 Old 07-15-2013, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Awesome posting, thanks for contributing biggrin.gif
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post #40 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 01:03 PM
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post #41 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 01:10 PM
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From the HOTP thread, Showtime Renews ‘Ray Donovan’ For Second Season

Not surprising but still good to hear. Just got caught up last night and really enjoy the show so far.

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post #42 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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From the HOTP thread, Showtime Renews ‘Ray Donovan’ For Second Season

Awesome! Thanks for the posting, keenan.
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post #43 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 01:35 PM
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I too was pleased to learn that Ray Donovan has already been renewed. I thought this week's episode was terrific. I feel really sorry for Ray's wife. Ray is such a quirky, emotionally frozen, guy it has to be hard for his wife to deal with. Mickey's conduct at the abuse victims' support group meeting made my blood run cold. It would be easy to dismiss what Mickey did as an old man's cluelessness but I saw it as coldhearted viciousness. I suspect that Mickey is one of those guys who when he was a kid tortured animals.

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post #44 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 02:43 PM
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There's something under the surface of Mickey's behavior that's hard to pin down. His exit from the group meeting was much more than we would expect from the average show - he seemed almost embarrassed, but still had to have the last word, but seemed in his own way to be trying to be positive. Very well written character, not simple at all - he's a bad guy, he'll always be a bad guy, but he doesn't want to be a bad guy. Unfortunately, he has no tools with which to help in that effort.

The plot developments this week were pretty deep, it should be fun seeing it develop.

I looked up crazy basement guy with a badge - Frank Whaley - to see why he looked so familiar. Brett! What? What?

Eve: I thought I was through getting involved with men who were trouble. Falling in love on a look. I can't look at you.

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post #45 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 02:46 PM
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The more I watch this show the more I like it. Happy to see it got renewed.
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post #46 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 02:50 PM
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I like the show too, but for the life of me, I can't understand why Mickey's kids, other than Ray, want to have anything to do with him, but kill him. The guy is despicable. I'm not quite understanding the dynamic between Ray and wifey either. Ray's pissed at her for inviting Mickey in, justifiably. Evidently, he's never explained just how bad a guy Mickey is...or...the fact that he was forced to give head to him in exchange for ice cream. So wifey falls for the forlorn letters from prison and wants to bring the family back together? WTF? It seems she's (maybe justifiably) sure that Ray is boffing all his female clients and is so pissed that she spitefilly goes against every sincere wish he makes known...even though she knows he travels the darkside in keeping bread on the table...Edie Falco anyone? I guess the dynamic is interesting and getting better. Ray seems like a great guy for a smart thug, always caring about (some) people and totally ruthless when you cross him. Just don't see why the bros are on board with Dad at all.

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post #47 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by fjames View Post

There's something under the surface of Mickey's behavior that's hard to pin down. His exit from the group meeting was much more than we would expect from the average show - he seemed almost embarrassed, but still had to have the last word, but seemed in his own way to be trying to be positive. Very well written character, not simple at all - he's a bad guy, he'll always be a bad guy, but he doesn't want to be a bad guy. Unfortunately, he has no tools with which to help in that effort.

The plot developments this week were pretty deep, it should be fun seeing it develop.

I looked up crazy basement guy with a badge - Frank Whaley - to see why he looked so familiar. Brett! What? What?
Yes, basement, with wood paneling... did we just get thrown back to the '60's?

Something is not right with that character, I suspect he may be a rogue law enforcement officer(take your pick of agency) who is on a personal vendetta.
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post #48 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 02:56 PM
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I like the show too, but for the life of me, I can't understand why Mickey's kids, other than Ray, want to have anything to do with him, but kill him. The guy is despicable. I'm not quite understanding the dynamic between Ray and wifey either. Ray's pissed at her for inviting Mickey in, justifiably. Evidently, he's never explained just how bad a guy Mickey is...or...the fact that he was forced to give head to him in exchange for ice cream. So wifey falls for the forlorn letters from prison and wants to bring the family back together? WTF? It seems she's (maybe justifiably) sure that Ray is boffing all his female clients and is so pissed that she spitefilly goes against every sincere wish he makes known...even though she knows he travels the darkside in keeping bread on the table...Edie Falco anyone? I guess the dynamic is interesting and getting better. Ray seems like a great guy for a smart thug, always caring about (some) people and totally ruthless when you cross him. Just don't see why the bros are on board with Dad at all.
Weak personalities, Bunchy is a basket case due to his abuse as a child and Tommy, while mentally sharp is a physical wreck from repeated beatings in the ring, apparently at the behest of Micky. Easy to to manipulate people when they, or at least appear to lack confidence in themselves. Ray is a very confident person and he appears to know everything Micky has done, and maybe what Ray and Co have done to Micky as we're starting to see that develop.
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post #49 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 03:06 PM
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I like the show too, but for the life of me, I can't understand why Mickey's kids, other than Ray, want to have anything to do with him, but kill him. The guy is despicable. I'm not quite understanding the dynamic between Ray and wifey either. Ray's pissed at her for inviting Mickey in, justifiably. Evidently, he's never explained just how bad a guy Mickey is...or...the fact that he was forced to give head to him in exchange for ice cream. So wifey falls for the forlorn letters from prison and wants to bring the family back together? WTF? It seems she's (maybe justifiably) sure that Ray is boffing all his female clients and is so pissed that she spitefilly goes against every sincere wish he makes known...even though she knows he travels the darkside in keeping bread on the table...Edie Falco anyone? I guess the dynamic is interesting and getting better. Ray seems like a great guy for a smart thug, always caring about (some) people and totally ruthless when you cross him. Just don't see why the bros are on board with Dad at all.

The other brothers are pathetic losers who between them couldn't muster half a normal brain. The question for me is how did Ray turn out so effective?

People are making the Carmela connection, but I don't see it. They repeatedly showed Carmela being bought off with trinkets - Oh Tony! - but so far nothing like that with Abby. Not that their relationship isn't confusing, but Carmela was intentionally blinded by the writers, a victim of her Jersey girl desires. Abby is 10 times tougher and smarter me thinks.

Eve: I thought I was through getting involved with men who were trouble. Falling in love on a look. I can't look at you.

Mickey: You have perfection about you. Your eyes have music. Your heart's the best part of your body. And when you move, every man, woman and child is forced to watch.
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post #50 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 03:15 PM
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I looked up crazy basement guy with a badge - Frank Whaley - to see why he looked so familiar. Brett! What? What?

I recognized Whaley from the get go because I have long admired his talent. Like you, I remembered his performance in Pulp Fiction as Brett, the creep who ended up paying with his life for having double-crossed his boss, Marcellus Wallace. Who could ever forget that briefcase?smile.gif

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post #51 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 03:48 PM
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Weak personalities, Bunchy is a basket case due to his abuse as a child and Tommy, while mentally sharp is a physical wreck from repeated beatings in the ring, apparently at the behest of Micky. Easy to to manipulate people when they, or at least appear to lack confidence in themselves. Ray is a very confident person and he appears to know everything Micky has done, and maybe what Ray and Co have done to Micky as we're starting to see that develop.
That's how they are portrayed and yes it's logical, but brothers talk. I can't believe Ray hasn't shared why he hates Mickey with a passion and then there's what happened with sister suicide (which obviously Ray blames on Mickey). Also, both brothers would have been witness or subjected to similar abuse during their teenage years. So, I get your point, it makes sense, but it's too simple for the complexity of these relationships. I can't see the bros being sympathetic to Mickey.

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The other brothers are pathetic losers who between them couldn't muster half a normal brain. The question for me is how did Ray turn out so effective?

People are making the Carmela connection, but I don't see it. They repeatedly showed Carmela being bought off with trinkets - Oh Tony! - but so far nothing like that with Abby. Not that their relationship isn't confusing, but Carmela was intentionally blinded by the writers, a victim of her Jersey girl desires. Abby is 10 times tougher and smarter me thinks.
She may be smarter and tougher, but she has much more to work with in Ray. He's obviously a strong and compassionate guy. Tries to do the right thing within the framework of his career path (maybe at the expense of her sensibilities). However, this chick lives in an upscale gated community, but wants more. She wants even more luxury and private schools that might or might not be a better environment for the kids. She's guilt ridden and hate filled, loving, but with a really bad attitude. In short, she knows she's got Mr. Right, but still wants to tear him down. I guess I'll just have to accept it's a complicated relationship and watch it develop. But, I see more Edie than you do. It's just that Ray is way more gray than Tony...hell, he's a standup guy, a fixer, unless you cross him. Seems to give everyone a warning first anyway.

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post #52 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 04:47 PM
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I can't see the bros being sympathetic to Mickey.

This article on learned helplessness, in particular as influenced by a relationship with a mentally ill person, seems to fit.

Eve: I thought I was through getting involved with men who were trouble. Falling in love on a look. I can't look at you.

Mickey: You have perfection about you. Your eyes have music. Your heart's the best part of your body. And when you move, every man, woman and child is forced to watch.
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post #53 of 1622 Old 07-16-2013, 07:45 PM
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That's how they are portrayed and yes it's logical, but brothers talk. I can't believe Ray hasn't shared why he hates Mickey with a passion and then there's what happened with sister suicide (which obviously Ray blames on Mickey). Also, both brothers would have been witness or subjected to similar abuse during their teenage years. So, I get your point, it makes sense, but it's too simple for the complexity of these relationships. I can't see the bros being sympathetic to Mickey.
She may be smarter and tougher, but she has much more to work with in Ray. He's obviously a strong and compassionate guy. Tries to do the right thing within the framework of his career path (maybe at the expense of her sensibilities). However, this chick lives in an upscale gated community, but wants more. She wants even more luxury and private schools that might or might not be a better environment for the kids. She's guilt ridden and hate filled, loving, but with a really bad attitude. In short, she knows she's got Mr. Right, but still wants to tear him down. I guess I'll just have to accept it's a complicated relationship and watch it develop. But, I see more Edie than you do. It's just that Ray is way more gray than Tony...hell, he's a standup guy, a fixer, unless you cross him. Seems to give everyone a warning first anyway.

I completely agree with the part of your analysis that points out that Ray's wife has a lot more to work with than Carmella Soprano did. Tony Soprano was a psychopath. He even went so far as to kill his surrogate son, Christopher,with his bare hands. Tony was utterly ruthless when it came to looking out for Number One. In stark contrast, Ray's wife knows that Ray, tortured though he is, wants to do what is right and wouldn't kill anybody who didn't really need killing.smile.gif

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post #54 of 1622 Old 07-17-2013, 12:10 PM
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Another solid episode.  Jon Voight is giving an outstanding performance as is Liev Schreiber.  They are filling in the background slowly, but with enough info to keep it moving.  The murder conspiracy behind much of it, by the actor with the involvement of Mickey and Ezra seems to be the main motivator.  The new investigator is a bit odd though.  He apparently helped get Mickey out of prison and showed credentials indicating he was a fed (I think Mickey suggested FBI).  But, the private office with photos seems to indicate he is not - or is somehow rogue.  Should prove to be interesting.


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post #55 of 1622 Old 07-20-2013, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
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So my mother and boss loves this show. +1 for them biggrin.gif
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post #56 of 1622 Old 07-21-2013, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Really good episode tonight. The spaghetti date was adorable. Loved that whole subject.

The lady who's place was bugged was sexy. Good scene biggrin.gif
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post #57 of 1622 Old 07-21-2013, 11:16 PM
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Regarding Reacher, Schreiber would have made a good one. But the best Reacher would have been Ray Stevenson, from Rome. Lee Child whored out for filthy lucre.

Ray Donovan is a wonderful series. Fabulous writing and acting. The Bridge is also brilliant. Two great new series to carry us into the future.
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post #58 of 1622 Old 07-22-2013, 09:04 AM
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Pretty good episode, lots going on. Jon Voight is terrific, straightening out his Boys constantly, the "Sansui" speakers in the back seat, porn in the trunk, and the final scene in "the club".. Just great...
Who WAS the lady who was bugged and scratched Ray??? Very Hot...
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post #59 of 1622 Old 07-22-2013, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Pretty good episode, lots going on. Jon Voight is terrific, straightening out his Boys constantly, the "Sansui" speakers in the back seat, porn in the trunk, and the final scene in "the club".. Just great...
Who WAS the lady who was bugged and scratched Ray??? Very Hot...

No doubt about that. I was wondering about that myself, we haven't seen her yet (I don't think) and we do not have an explation of that storyline.

Hope to see more (or less wink.gif ) of her next episodes. ha
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post #60 of 1622 Old 07-22-2013, 09:50 AM
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It is unclear who was being surveilled there when the mic fell out from behind the picture frame. Obviously someone has Ray & Co. watching either the man or the woman, and the tryst would be problematic for Ray's client, whoever that is.
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