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post #1351 of 2944 Old 10-14-2015, 10:26 AM
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Yup, magnet works for me.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #1352 of 2944 Old 10-14-2015, 12:08 PM
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How does his hat stay on? Clearly the Speed Force also provides Inertial Dampening to the runner, or you'd be killed by the dust projectiles in the air that you run through at high speeds... that same Inertial Dampening effect would result in his hat staying on his head the same as if he were standing still.

Meanwhile...

Zoom... said, by Jay, to be perhaps the fastest speedster in all the multiverse... keeps sending other people to kill the Flash. Zoom must not be too confident in himself, or he'd just go directly to Barry and off him on his own instead of repeated failures of his lackeys.

One thing about Jay bothers me... they establish in this episode that he has only been the Flash for 2 years... so he's not that much more experienced at it than Barry... and he looks to be not much older as a character either. Nothing wrong with this actor, but I really would have liked the traditional older Jay Garrick with more experience angle.

And the 52 portals... is that just a nod to the New-52 and the 52-universe multiverse from the comics? OR is it a setup for having each portal actually lead to a different earth? The latter would be cool.
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post #1353 of 2944 Old 10-14-2015, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Zoom... said, by Jay, to be perhaps the fastest speedster in all the multiverse... keeps sending other people to kill the Flash. Zoom must not be too confident in himself, or he'd just go directly to Barry and off him on his own instead of repeated failures of his lackeys.
I was wondering the same thing. But if Garrick lost the Speed Force when crossing over, does that mean Zoom did too? I don't recall if Zoom demonstrated any abilities in this world.


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post #1354 of 2944 Old 10-14-2015, 12:33 PM
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I'm not complaining...just commenting on nonsense. It's fine that you care...it's fine that I don't. Like you Vision...no problem.

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post #1355 of 2944 Old 10-14-2015, 12:38 PM
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I was wondering the same thing. But if Garrick lost the Speed Force when crossing over, does that mean Zoom did too? I don't recall if Zoom demonstrated any abilities in this world.
Fair point. I thought they had shown Zoom being somewhat zoom-like in talking to the bad guy at the beginning of this episode... but perhaps he isn't at full strength even if he still has powers.

I am curious what the explanation for Jay losing his speed force connection might be... and how long they will keep him de-powered. Having Jay Garrick on the show but NOT having him be a speedster almost defeats the purpose.
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post #1356 of 2944 Old 10-14-2015, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post
I am curious what the explanation for Jay losing his speed force connection might be... and how long they will keep him de-powered. Having Jay Garrick on the show but NOT having him be a speedster almost defeats the purpose.
Garrick serves the purpose of being the expert that Wells was. If the characters cross universes again then Garrick may gain his power back while Barry loses his in that world. I can't see Garrick sticking around all season just for advice so I expect him to go back through one of the portals sooner rather than later and I expect Barry to go with him because he has to encounter Walternate Wells at some point. Possibly to ask how to close the portals


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post #1357 of 2944 Old 10-14-2015, 04:07 PM
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And the 52 portals... is that just a nod to the New-52 and the 52-universe multiverse from the comics? OR is it a setup for having each portal actually lead to a different earth? The latter would be cool.
Hopefully for more than playing poker with a deck of Multiverse.

The two worlds we now know about appear to be similar but far from identical. It seems that there is now possibility of 52 Flashes. Or maybe some geological disaster (such as a volcano) in one of the universes leaking through a portal (such as a downtown lava flow).

I have a few shows to catch up on from last night, and I am glad this one was early in my pick; it was a fun episode, though Barry seemed a bit too full of himself; as a scientist, I would have thought he would at least be curious about the information his otheruniverse counterpart had to say.

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Spoiler!
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post #1358 of 2944 Old 10-14-2015, 04:12 PM
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I will comment as it pleases me.
As those of us do who sometimes comment on the "minutiae."

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post #1359 of 2944 Old 10-14-2015, 04:15 PM
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I was wondering the same thing. But if Garrick lost the Speed Force when crossing over, does that mean Zoom did too? I don't recall if Zoom demonstrated any abilities in this world.
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I am curious what the explanation for Jay losing his speed force connection might be... and how long they will keep him de-powered. Having Jay Garrick on the show but NOT having him be a speedster almost defeats the purpose.
Remember Zoom had his hand on Jay's chest. Maybe something Zoom did caused it? Could be Zoom drained Jay's speed, just like Wells planned to do in Barry's reality.

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post #1360 of 2944 Old 10-14-2015, 08:07 PM
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Ya gotta love science fiction, because nobody really needs to die when you can always bring people back from alternate timelines and parallel universes. Somehow I don't think we're going to run into Mirror Eddie, though.
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post #1361 of 2944 Old 10-14-2015, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Ya gotta love science fiction, because nobody really needs to die when you can always bring people back from alternate timelines and parallel universes. Somehow I don't think we're going to run into Mirror Eddie, though.
Oh you say that now! Just wait until the show is looking for a cliffhanger. Or a way to give Iris something to do on the show.


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post #1362 of 2944 Old 10-14-2015, 11:23 PM
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Garrick serves the purpose of being the expert that Wells was. If the characters cross universes again then Garrick may gain his power back while Barry loses his in that world. I can't see Garrick sticking around all season just for advice so I expect him to go back through one of the portals sooner rather than later and I expect Barry to go with him because he has to encounter Walternate Wells at some point. Possibly to ask how to close the portals
Maybe, but... Wells had 20+ years of science and experience that Barry didn't have... and RF posing as Wells had that + a bunch more years experience as a speedster to help nudge Barry along. This TV show Jay Garrick is only barely more experienced than Barry... and with RF having helped Barry along, it's likely that Barry is better at using his powers at this point than Jay is. That's why I also mentioned it being weird that Jay is only slightly older and only 1 more year of experience at being a Flash than Barry on the show. It undercuts him being a mentor just a bit.

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Remember Zoom had his hand on Jay's chest. Maybe something Zoom did caused it? Could be Zoom drained Jay's speed, just like Wells planned to do in Barry's reality.
That's a thought... maybe they will play that bit up whenever Zoom and Barry first encounter each other. Though, IF Zoom has that power... he could have just surprised Barry instead of letting Barry have time to know he exists through sending the flunkies!

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Oh you say that now! Just wait until the show is looking for a cliffhanger. Or a way to give Iris something to do on the show.
Guess they could bring an alternate Eddie in at some point if they wanted. Along those lines, I wonder if they will use the comic backstory for Iris... Spoilered for those who don't know and don't want to know
Spoiler!
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post #1363 of 2944 Old 10-15-2015, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe, but... Wells had 20+ years of science and experience that Barry didn't have... and RF posing as Wells had that + a bunch more years experience as a speedster to help nudge Barry along. This TV show Jay Garrick is only barely more experienced than Barry.
I agree, but Garrick does have more knowledge of the other worlds and of the enemies that have crossed over. So he is the most qualified to teach Barry about the new threats he is facing even if he doesn't have much more in the way of skill.

I wonder if Garrick has run so fast that he went back in time yet? Maybe Barry should bring that up.


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post #1364 of 2944 Old 10-15-2015, 10:49 AM
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Keeping secrets in these shows is always the best solution. No drama will happen when they all eventually find out. You'd think his ability might prompt him to warn the others to be wary of him. Instead, if he's going to turn into evil Cisco, like he thinks, better not let anyone know, so he can be evil in secret and undermine things.


It looks like zoom can pass back and forth through the portals, because he sent sandman through and before that, the other guy.

I've never read the Flash books but I peek at the wiki every now and again to understand some things. Is it like the Jet Li movie The One where he wants to kill all his alternates so he absorbs their powers and gets stronger. Less people sucking on the speed pipe.


What if helmet flash is Zoom and somehow hides the evidence of the speed force. They obviously don't want us to know who Zoom is yet, so I'm guessing it's not Wells, in earth 2.

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post #1365 of 2944 Old 10-15-2015, 03:45 PM
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It's going to be filling up with speedsters - Flash, Zoom, Jay, and later this season, Wally West.
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post #1366 of 2944 Old 10-16-2015, 06:07 AM
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With all these Earth-2 people showing up on Earth-1 and the fact that Ronnie's body was never found, wouldn't it make sense that Ronnie was transported to Earth-2?

I have binge watched all of season one the past couple of weeks and have now caught up to the show. I am really into this whole show (I also loved Smallville).
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post #1367 of 2944 Old 10-16-2015, 07:58 AM
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With all these Earth-2 people showing up on Earth-1 and the fact that Ronnie's body was never found, wouldn't it make sense that Ronnie was transported to Earth-2?
+1

Definitely would be a reasonable way to bring him back to the show this season if they wanted to.

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post #1368 of 2944 Old 10-16-2015, 08:04 AM
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Wait.. wasn't Dr. Wells, aka Thawne, aka The Reverse Flash, also aka Zoom? Aren't they all the same guy?
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post #1369 of 2944 Old 10-16-2015, 09:03 AM
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You know, this stuff just gets more complicated as we talk about time traveling speedsters, their counterparts between the JLA and JSA universes, and then how they were portrayed in the comics too. It's so confusing to keep track of. (lol)

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post #1370 of 2944 Old 10-16-2015, 10:11 AM
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Wait.. wasn't Dr. Wells, aka Thawne, aka The Reverse Flash, also aka Zoom? Aren't they all the same guy?
I thought so.

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post #1371 of 2944 Old 10-16-2015, 10:24 AM
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The whole idea that there is an Earth 2 with dopplegangers for everyone is ridiculous (not just the parallel universe idea).
Since everyone is doing their own thing (the dopplegangers don't have to do the same things), most of the marriages that happen on Earth 1 won't happen on Earth 2 and many of the same people won't be born.

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post #1372 of 2944 Old 10-16-2015, 10:45 AM
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The whole idea that there is an Earth 2 with dopplegangers for everyone is ridiculous (not just the parallel universe idea).
Since everyone is doing their own thing (the dopplegangers don't have to do the same things), most of the marriages that happen on Earth 1 won't happen on Earth 2 and many of the same people won't be born.
No it's not, really. When you are dealing with infinite numbers. One little thing changed or didn't. Think about how many seconds or nano seconds that have passed since the beginning of the earth. Think about any minute difference to any single thing happening and that's a different universe. One universe is the exact same as ours except today, you stumbled on the way to eat your breakfast. One world you stumbled on the 3rd step, another on the 4th step ad infinitum. The possibility that the two flash earths with all the same people have been connected is the more ridiculous idea.
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post #1373 of 2944 Old 10-16-2015, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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If you go in for the quantum physics stuff then every action or inaction can result in another dimensional possibility. So if you also posit that the wormhole opened a passage to one of the nearest dimensional neighbors then it would be the result of only minor deviations from the world Flash exists in. The further away the dimension is in relation to the timeline then the greater the chance of a more altered world.

You know, like Sliders.

What we do know is that a Flash from that time appeared after WW1, so we know that still happened.


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My coworker claims the series from 1990 is far superior...
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My coworker claims the series from 1990 is far superior...
I still think the flash suit from the old show is superior, but otherwise trying to rewatch the old show is like 'fingernails on a chalkboard' to me. It felt like they were trying to achieve a live action version of a kids cartoon rather than a more adult oriented comic book experience.

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post #1376 of 2944 Old 10-16-2015, 05:45 PM
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If you go in for the quantum physics stuff then every action or inaction can result in another dimensional possibility. So if you also posit that the wormhole opened a passage to one of the nearest dimensional neighbors then it would be the result of only minor deviations from the world Flash exists in. The further away the dimension is in relation to the timeline then the greater the chance of a more altered world.

You know, like Sliders.

What we do know is that a Flash from that time appeared after WW1, so we know that still happened.
No idea these things were so powerful.


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post #1377 of 2944 Old 10-16-2015, 09:40 PM
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No it's not, really. When you are dealing with infinite numbers. One little thing changed or didn't. Think about how many seconds or nano seconds that have passed since the beginning of the earth. Think about any minute difference to any single thing happening and that's a different universe. One universe is the exact same as ours except today, you stumbled on the way to eat your breakfast. One world you stumbled on the 3rd step, another on the 4th step ad infinitum. The possibility that the two flash earths with all the same people have been connected is the more ridiculous idea.

We basically saw the same thing shown on Fringe (to reference a recent use of this theory). I thought they explained and used it well. They just need Walter to make a guest appearance to explain the multiverse theory and create the bridge.


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post #1378 of 2944 Old 10-17-2015, 12:31 AM
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Wait.. wasn't Dr. Wells, aka Thawne, aka The Reverse Flash, also aka Zoom? Aren't they all the same guy?
In the comics, the original Reverse Flash (Eobard Thawne) calls himself Professor Zoom. All interchangeable.

Later we got Hunter Zoloman who calls himself simply Zoom.

I believe the New-52 has also introduced a new variation on Zoom that is neither Zoloman nor Thawne, but I could be mistaken on that point since I haven't read Flash in several years.

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The whole idea that there is an Earth 2 with dopplegangers for everyone is ridiculous (not just the parallel universe idea).
Since everyone is doing their own thing (the dopplegangers don't have to do the same things), most of the marriages that happen on Earth 1 won't happen on Earth 2 and many of the same people won't be born.
Not really. Multiverse theory in part says that the universe goes the same up until some point where it diverges... so ALL of the multiverse would share some common history. That common history could just be the big bang OR it could be everything up until WWI or everything until last week. In this case, Earth-2 just happens to be mostly similar. The writers choose which earth to show us in the multiverse, so they just aren't showing us one where history is vastly different.
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post #1379 of 2944 Old 10-17-2015, 07:09 AM
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No it's not, really. When you are dealing with infinite numbers. One little thing changed or didn't. Think about how many seconds or nano seconds that have passed since the beginning of the earth. Think about any minute difference to any single thing happening and that's a different universe. One universe is the exact same as ours except today, you stumbled on the way to eat your breakfast. One world you stumbled on the 3rd step, another on the 4th step ad infinitum. The possibility that the two flash earths with all the same people have been connected is the more ridiculous idea.
I agree with you in principle that the universes could be similar, but I have always questioned this explanation that tries to describe all the different universes that are out there. It seems to be predicated on two assumptions:

1) That there are random events that might act as development points which result in two (or multiple) different universes. Are there truly random events? Or are random events merely predictable events that are too complicated for us to calculate the predictability of, or is the predictability based on scientific principles that have not been discovered yet? For example, the weather is not random. But science cannot predict accurately exactly how many inches of rain you will get tomorrow at your house, even if they know with certainty you will get a rain storm.

2) This leads to the idea that we don't know what factors would determine the variability of different universes. It could be possible that the infinite number of universes have a finite number of variations. Maybe there is only one universe like ours, and in all the rest, there is no Earth at all. Or maybe in all the other universes, Earth is exactly the same as ours. Either seems as likely without knowing more.

Now when you start questioning the multiverse type theories like this, that leads me to ask the question of if there are an infinite number of universes with some variations, what is the likelihood that the wormhole which opens would lead to a similar universe like the JSA one in The Flash? Or what is the likelihood that it would lead to one as different as the JSA one in The Flash? Why not one where the only difference is where all blue eyed people have, on average, a slightly lighter shade of blue?

All together, I think it's just better to suspend disbelief when it comes to questioning scifi about the likelihood of the specific parallel universe that is connected to in a story

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post #1380 of 2944 Old 10-17-2015, 07:19 AM
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IN real life, Maybe the Large Hadron Collider will finally uncover the existence of parallel universes. That was one of the things they said was a possibility. Although not very likely.

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