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post #181 of 547 Old 02-14-2016, 01:52 AM
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Jeri Ryan helped Voyager because besides being attractive her character was actually good and part of one of the most popular Trek factions in it's history.
Yes, the concept of having a former Borg drone trying to regain her humanity was an excellent idea, but the whole "sexy drone" thing was ridiculous even before Seven was liberated, as the Borg would have no reason to sexualise their drones.

As for T'pol, the main thing I remember about Enterprise was the UPN promo that stated, "It's finally happened. T'pol is in heat!" Hearing that promo was the moment I resolved to never watch the show.
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post #182 of 547 Old 02-14-2016, 06:14 AM
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They did the same thing with T'pol and the ratings still went down. They gave her more cleavage and nudity. See above.

Jeri Ryan helped Voyager because besides being attractive her character was actually good and part of one of the most popular Trek factions in it's history.
Agreed. Seven of Nine was added to the show as a new character in the fourth season to replace the then ended (thank goodness) Kes story line. It did much more than simply add a boob job on the show, and one could suspect adding a Borg element was way more significant to the ratings increase.


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T'pol was not interesting in the slightest and viewers could easily see through the blatant attempts to sex up the show.
That's arguable. T'pol was important for showing the conflict between Vulcans and humans at that point in the mythology time line following first contact. And of course, it's difficult to make Vulcans likeable when they show no emotion, a difficult character to make interesting. I sometimes wonder if this is why they avoided having a Vulcan main character on TNG. Tuvok on Voyager seemed more a Vulcan caricature, with T'pol a more realistic representation to me in the first couple of seasons of Enterprise.

Of course one could question whether or not it was a good idea to develop T'pol's vulnerability as the seasons progressed and use her to explore Vulcan sexuality and Vulcan personal relationships, as well as trying to use her to show how a Vulcan could become involved with a human, ala Spock's parents. I thought it was interesting, but not a fan of how much of the show's attention was placed on it.
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post #183 of 547 Old 02-14-2016, 06:23 AM
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Yes, the concept of having a former Borg drone trying to regain her humanity was an excellent idea, but the whole "sexy drone" thing was ridiculous even before Seven was liberated, as the Borg would have no reason to sexualise their drones.
Sexuality is a matter of interpretation. If Borgs are asexual, then they most definitely did not "sexualize" Seven of Nine. That's you reading into it

But seriously, there was precedence. The Borg Queen did wear a low cut, revealing outfit. Alice Krieg just doesn't have the anatomy to call attention to it:


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post #184 of 547 Old 02-14-2016, 12:36 PM
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Wow, this is hilarious. What I have found out from the last two pages is that this show is so bad that people would rather discuss Trek. The other thing I found out is Visionon will watch a show even if he thinks it is crap. I gave up on Enterprise before the end of the first season.
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post #185 of 547 Old 02-14-2016, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, this is hilarious. What I have found out from the last two pages is that this show is so bad that people would rather discuss Trek. The other thing I found out is Visionon will watch a show even if he thinks it is crap. I gave up on Enterprise before the end of the first season.
Who said I watch all the episodes? Plenty of feedback and reruns on television to see if anything improves at a later date. Plus you should be able to tell if a show has any creative potential that may be realised early on, so giving up early isn't necessarily the best choice. You cannot disregard an entire show without an informed opinion. Case in point Shran on Enterprise. He was worth watching on appearance. And Fringe and it's cookie-cutter generic first season.

And this show isn't bad by any means. It's still a fun show with plenty of potential.

In any case since Canary lost her cleavage we should probably continue the space boobs conversation in the other thread.

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post #186 of 547 Old 02-14-2016, 01:28 PM
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And this show isn't bad by any means. It's still a fun show with plenty of potential.
Yep. As someone already pointed out, at least it's not full of personal life drama like Arrow and Flash.

Now if the writers can just build some better chemistry between the actors, it might come into its own
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post #187 of 547 Old 02-14-2016, 01:43 PM
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And this show isn't bad by any means. It's still a fun show with plenty of potential.


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No its bad! I will grant you that it is somewhat fun.

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post #188 of 547 Old 02-14-2016, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep. As someone already pointed out, at least it's not full of personal life drama like Arrow and Flash.
Yeah, that was me too.


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post #189 of 547 Old 02-14-2016, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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No its bad! I will grant you that it is somewhat fun.
If you think it's fun then it cannot be bad, because at that point it enters "so bad, it's good territory" like Prison Break.

Under the Dome became a bad show because the only fun part was not the watching but reading how bad it was.


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post #190 of 547 Old 02-14-2016, 04:30 PM
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Yeah, that was me too.
Then you deserve a cookie

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post #191 of 547 Old 02-19-2016, 01:16 PM
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Snart: "This won't be my first prison break." lol

One of the few bright spots from another messy episode that saw another chance to kill Savage go to waste. Rip is standing there with his futuristic blue-glowy gun pointed at Savage's head in the same room as Hawkgirl. Savage feels threatened enough by said gun to do what Rip asks (return the watch). Why wouldn't Rip shoot him and, if Hawkgirl left the dagger in her other costume, just bring him to the ship incapacitated to finish him off. If you're thinking Soviet Firestorm was the more immediate threat, the entire reassembled team could've come back to easily take her out if killing Savage wasn't enough to effect that particular timeline. They ended up doing that anyway when they couldn't prevent her from merging with the professor.
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post #192 of 547 Old 02-19-2016, 02:56 PM
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Yeah, still no good explanation for why he couldn't kill Savage. At some point, you have to start rooting for the bad guys.

They are going to a new time. I may be out. Unless I am bored, I will probably pass.

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post #193 of 547 Old 02-19-2016, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep, that was the dumbest scene of not-killing-Savage by far.

Rip somehow walks into the prison, gets the drop on Savage who is completely alone without a guard in sight, Hawkgirl is right there in angry mode and ... she leaves! Holy crap. What, no knife? If they know Savage is around then she should be armed with it. When else is she going to be able to use it?

The rest of it was okay "prison break" stuff. I enjoyed Mick being given a bit more depth and the Ray/Mick partnership is pretty good. The end teaser was very good though. I hope they stick with alternate future Star City and new Green Arrow and don't even mention Savage.


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post #194 of 547 Old 02-19-2016, 05:41 PM
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They ended up doing that anyway when they couldn't prevent her from merging with the professor.
It's a shame, she had to die. She seemed very hot out of excitement, when she merged.

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post #195 of 547 Old 02-19-2016, 06:32 PM
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I deleted this show. But now I see there's an alternate Green Arrow? Wonder if it's worth trying to get back into.

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post #196 of 547 Old 02-19-2016, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I deleted this show. But now I see there's an alternate Green Arrow? Wonder if it's worth trying to get back into.
At the most I expect it will last two weeks and if you are still watching Arrow it follows continuity from that too.


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post #197 of 547 Old 02-19-2016, 08:53 PM
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"Professor Stein is being tortured for information in a Soviet gulag! This is totally like like that time I didn't get to play football!" Yes, professor, you are truly lucky to have this thoughtful young man as your partner.
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post #198 of 547 Old 02-22-2016, 10:18 AM
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Yep, that was the dumbest scene of not-killing-Savage by far.
Umm, he did kill him. He set off an explosion and blew Savage up as soon as he left the room.

Now, I get that doesn't address the complaint of why he didn't let Kendra kill Savage permanently. But doesn't she need the special magic dagger to do that? Do they still have that, or did Savage take it when he killed Carter?

If they don't have the dagger, and Kendra wouldn't be able to kill him permanently anyway, then blowing him up was probably a lot more fun and satisfying for Rip than just shooting him.

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post #199 of 547 Old 02-22-2016, 11:30 AM
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Umm, he did kill him. He set off an explosion and blew Savage up as soon as he left the room.

Now, I get that doesn't address the complaint of why he didn't let Kendra kill Savage permanently. But doesn't she need the special magic dagger to do that? Do they still have that, or did Savage take it when he killed Carter?

If they don't have the dagger, and Kendra wouldn't be able to kill him permanently anyway, then blowing him up was probably a lot more fun and satisfying for Rip than just shooting him.
Isn't that the point, you are going to go out of your way to do the explosive to kill him, again, yet you leave the body. Why bother? You know he is coming back. You know you need Kendra. She has to be the one to deliver the killing blow so take him, then let her kill them, or as we said numerous times, take him and secure him away somewhere, on your ship, wherever, bam, problem solved.

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post #200 of 547 Old 02-22-2016, 11:42 AM
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Isn't that the point, you are going to go out of your way to do the explosive to kill him, again, yet you leave the body. Why bother? You know he is coming back. You know you need Kendra. She has to be the one to deliver the killing blow so take him, then let her kill them, or as we said numerous times, take him and secure him away somewhere, on your ship, wherever, bam, problem solved.
Yeah, I see what you're saying. I still think that this episode was generally an improvement over the last couple, though.

I had a bigger issue with the ending, which implies that Vostok's defeat was the real cause of the Chernobyl meltdown. So, our heroes trigger a catastrophic disaster that will expose hundreds of thousands of innocent people to critical levels of radiation, and they high-five each other afterwards for a job well done.

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post #201 of 547 Old 02-22-2016, 12:58 PM
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This temporarily killing Savage over and over is going to get old really fast. Even in a world with superheros, aliens and time travelers this shows premise is just not realistic. I might watch it once more but just can't get over how stupid the premise is and how easily this deal with Savage should have been fixed. Wonder if they are seriously planning on more seasons of following him around time and killing him over and over? Hmm, the more I talk about this show the weaker its whole plot gets.
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post #202 of 547 Old 02-22-2016, 01:14 PM
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Now, I get that doesn't address the complaint of why he didn't let Kendra kill Savage permanently. But doesn't she need the special magic dagger to do that? Do they still have that, or did Savage take it when he killed Carter?
Captain Cold got the dagger back from Savage while Kendra was in her coma.

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post #203 of 547 Old 02-23-2016, 10:06 AM
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Eh...we're having fun with it. Mainly because Snart and Canary are just too good to pass up. But I agree they need to tighten it up a bit. The only thing I've read about a possible season 2 was perhaps a rotating cast. It's doing well enough in the ratings for CW to get renewed though. They have gone from the "pretty vampire" channel to the DC channel so I expect it to be back or they'll do a different spinoff instead. They could do two shows in the same timeslot, 10-13 episodes each or something like what ABC has been doing with Agent Carter and the soon to be Most Wanted show.

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post #204 of 547 Old 02-23-2016, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Captain Cold got the dagger back from Savage while Kendra was in her coma.
Yeah, so what confluence of events is going to be deemed "special" enough that Rip gives Kendra permission to actually carry it?

They knew Savage was going to be there, they had a massive distraction during a full team assault and then they cornered Savage easily. What circumstances are they waiting for? Savage to be wandering alone through the desert on his way back from the barber?

They got the drop on him last episode. Rip could have shot him in the knees while Kendra went back for the dagger. She has wings and the team have two spaceships. It shouldn't take that long.
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post #205 of 547 Old 02-23-2016, 01:19 PM
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The Prison Break references were a little on the nose. I expected it, and I found it entertaining the first time around, but the second time in 10 minutes? They overused it. It's like they got way too cocky for their own good.

Plus the firestorm kid is getting on my nerves. Does he have a mild case of autism?
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post #206 of 547 Old 02-23-2016, 02:04 PM
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Eh...we're having fun with it. Mainly because Snart and Canary are just too good to pass up. But I agree they need to tighten it up a bit. The only thing I've read about a possible season 2 was perhaps a rotating cast. It's doing well enough in the ratings for CW to get renewed though. They have gone from the "pretty vampire" channel to the DC channel so I expect it to be back or they'll do a different spinoff instead. They could do two shows in the same timeslot, 10-13 episodes each or something like what ABC has been doing with Agent Carter and the soon to be Most Wanted show.
Maybe I'm showing my age, but I wish they would try something like NBC did back in the 1970s where they rotated 90 minute episodes of McCloud, Colombo, and McMillan & Wife in one time slot. Since they seem to be doing mostly two-parters with Legends, I think it would interesting to do 90 minute episodes instead, and rotate them with two other DC comic-based shows. I'm sure there are plenty of other third tier superheroes they would be allowed to use to flesh out a couple more shows and it would give us even more variety.

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post #207 of 547 Old 02-23-2016, 04:06 PM
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Ah! The old NBC Mystery Movie. ABC tried it too with THE MEN (The Delphi Bureau, Assignment Vienna, and one other I can't recall). Do you think it would take in this short attention span era considering the cost?
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Ah! The old NBC Mystery Movie. ABC tried it too with THE MEN (The Delphi Bureau, Assignment Vienna, and one other I can't recall). Do you think it would take in this short attention span era considering the cost?
A 90 minute network show isn't much longer than the Marvel shows on Netflix after you fast-forward through the commercials.

I've looked for Delphi Bureau online before, but haven't found it. I haven't thought about Assignment Vienna in years. I remember looking forward to seeing Robert Conrad cruising around Europe in that Corvette.

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post #209 of 547 Old 02-25-2016, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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After watching Barry crying on Flash and The Queen and Smoak show, this week's episode was a welcome change of DC pace. Cyborg old man Arrow, Diggle Jr and Slade Jr, some comedy banter and Cold and Heatwave at their hammiest was much more entertaining.

As long as Arrow is sinking into the Olicity Pit o'Doom Legends of Tomorrow is definitely needed. Next episode appears to be set in space too so hopefully that's a good way to keep Vandal Savage from reappearing to not get killed again.
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post #210 of 547 Old 02-25-2016, 06:53 PM
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Good ep. Definite improvement over last week. The Black (Green) Arrow reminded me quite a bit of the actor who played Cyborg.
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