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post #3301 of 3457 Old 05-03-2020, 01:51 PM
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Jurassic World?
dinosaurs!...now that would be a great park to visit...won't happen but Michael Crichton is the author of the Jurassic Park books and also directed the Westworld movie so theoretically there would no issues as far as the rights to show it on HBO
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post #3302 of 3457 Old 05-03-2020, 07:19 PM
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I have a feeling this finale will leave people divided, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. A fitting end to Dolores’ story. Having Caleb and Maeve team up big thumbs up, the after credits scene, oh boy.
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post #3303 of 3457 Old 05-03-2020, 07:33 PM
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I have a feeling this finale will leave people divided, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. A fitting end to Dolores’ story. Having Caleb and Maeve team up big thumbs up, the after credits scene, oh boy.
I didn't like it all and every prior episode I really enjoyed. Kept looking at the time to see how much time is left hoping it would pick up. A lot of stuff happen just didn't care the way the went about showing it.

Not sure what to think about Delores and her real thoughts/hopes and William/MIB ending.

Now the wait begins as it took 2 years before the virus came about so who knows how long the next season might take to film and put together.

Still a big Nolan fan, will watch anything they put out.
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post #3304 of 3457 Old 05-03-2020, 09:38 PM
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"I choose to see the beauty in the world!"

What a fitting exit for Dolores Prime. I loved her character arc throughout the seasons, I know there were many who hated Vengeful Dolores but I was and will always be Team Dolores and can't imagine WestWorld with no Dolores. Aside from few minor distractions, like they still have keycard in this future, this show resonate very strongly with my perception of the world we live in. What we perceive as free will, almost always, is merely the consequences of our past actions. Free will exists but it's F'ing hard is right 🙂
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post #3305 of 3457 Old 05-03-2020, 09:51 PM
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I have mixed feelings about the finale...I liked the setup for next season and beyond with the 2 post-credit scenes but I wasn't satisfied with how they wrapped up the current season's story...I also felt that the production values for the riots happening in Los Angeles felt cheap...it looked like they filmed it on a studio backlot and the entire sequence taking place at night didn't help either...all season long they spent a fortune filming in exotic locales such as Singapore and Spain and it looked amazing which made the LA sequence feel low budget in comparison

there were some standout set pieces such as the scene with Maeve taking out Serac and his henchman in the pitch black and the fight sequences between Maeve and Dolores (although the Episode 7 fight choreography seemed a bit better)...overall it was the worst of the 3 Westworld finales but there are some interesting places where the story is headed

destroying Rehoboam just so humans can have free will as a parallel to the hosts felt a bit underwhelming...the reveal of Park 5 as some war training park also was a disappointment...Park 3 is Warworld so having another similar war theme felt uninspired...I do like that the Man in Black lives on as the human William was killed but the continuous theme of killing off every interesting human character remains...how long was Bernard in the Sublime?...seems like years at least...covered in soot it appears like an extinction level event took place

of course now we have to wait another 2 years for the next season
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post #3306 of 3457 Old 05-03-2020, 10:06 PM
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I have mixed feelings about the finale...I liked the setup for next season and beyond with the 2 post-credit scenes but I wasn't satisfied with how they wrapped up the current season's story...

Crap! I kept thinking there was a reason not to turn it off once the credits started but I did anyway. I'll have to go back and watch the credits now.
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post #3307 of 3457 Old 05-03-2020, 10:09 PM
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Behind the Scenes of Season 3 Episode 8 | HBO

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post #3308 of 3457 Old 05-03-2020, 10:44 PM
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I also felt that the production values for the riots happening in Los Angeles felt cheap...it looked like they filmed it on a studio backlot and the entire sequence taking place at night didn't help either...all season long they spent a fortune filming in exotic locales such as Singapore and Spain and it looked amazing which made the LA sequence feel low budget in comparison

there were some standout set pieces such as the scene with Maeve taking out Serac and his henchman in the pitch black and the fight sequences between Maeve and Dolores

I thought the exact opposite during the final fight scene with Maeve and Serac's henchmen: that the show ran out of budget by the time they got to that scene so they just did it the cheapest way they could, in pitch black with a few flashes of gunfire, some sound effects, and then bodies on the ground when the lights came up. Saves a lot of money on fight choreography, training, stuntmen, wire work, visual effects, etc.



Overall I thought the finale was okay in terms of the overall story. Good ending for Delores Prime. And a glimmer of hope that maybe humanity can survive the breakdown of society and end of Rehoboam. Perhaps the pending war with Halores's hosts will unite humans?


The worst parts for me were the headscratching moments: Why didn't Maeve just "push" Dolores to begin with to take control of her without risky fights (last episode, this one, and the fight with Yakuza-boss Dolores)? How does a police helicopter take Caleb wherever he wants to go? What did Maeve do to destroy Serac's control unit for her? Why didn't she do it sooner? Does her ability to control hosts extend to all electronics, including the light switch?



In spite of my complaints, I still really do like this show and I look forward to season 4.
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post #3309 of 3457 Old 05-03-2020, 11:04 PM
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The worst parts for me were the headscratching moments:...
the biggest head scratcher for me was why didn't Dolores Prime just share her plans with Maeve, Bernard etc from the start?...seems like something they all would be on board with...obvious answer was that they needed to create this fake drama/conflict to drive the season...but in terms of real life- there's no practical reason why she would not just tell everyone her plan from the beginning since they all basically had the same goals...seems like it could have been carried out with much less complications
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post #3310 of 3457 Old 05-03-2020, 11:28 PM
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“Oh for f’cks sake”
- an exasperated Mauve

An ok finale. Yeah, I agree about the headscratching moments. Then again, if they didn’t have those this would a 2 episode season. The best part was the post credit scenes. I’ll put this in a spoiler just in case...
Spoiler!
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post #3311 of 3457 Old 05-03-2020, 11:52 PM
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the biggest head scratcher for me was why didn't Dolores Prime just share her plans with Maeve, Bernard etc from the start?...seems like something they all would be on board with...obvious answer was that they needed to create this fake drama/conflict to drive the season...but in terms of real life- there's no practical reason why she would not just tell everyone her plan from the beginning since they all basically had the same goals...seems like it could have been carried out with much less complications

That is my biggest problem with the entire season. From the start, it seemed like Dolores and Maeve should have been on the same side. And all it would have taken was a conversation.

But nope, can't have that apparently, guess it doesn't look as cool as sword/fist fights. The whole conflict between Maeve and Dolores never made any sense at all to me for the entire season.

Also a bit odd for Bernard to have the encryption key without knowing it. Seems like it would have been easy at various points this season for Bernard to die ... then I guess, oops, lost encryption key?
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post #3312 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 12:18 AM
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I thought the exact opposite during the final fight scene with Maeve and Serac's henchmen: that the show ran out of budget by the time they got to that scene so they just did it the cheapest way they could, in pitch black with a few flashes of gunfire, some sound effects, and then bodies on the ground when the lights came up. Saves a lot of money on fight choreography, training, stuntmen, wire work, visual effects, etc.


Overall I thought the finale was okay in terms of the overall story. Good ending for Delores Prime. And a glimmer of hope that maybe humanity can survive the breakdown of society and end of Rehoboam. Perhaps the pending war with Halores's hosts will unite humans?


The worst parts for me were the headscratching moments: Why didn't Maeve just "push" Dolores to begin with to take control of her without risky fights (last episode, this one, and the fight with Yakuza-boss Dolores)? How does a police helicopter take Caleb wherever he wants to go? What did Maeve do to destroy Serac's control unit for her? Why didn't she do it sooner? Does her ability to control hosts extend to all electronics, including the light switch?



In spite of my complaints, I still really do like this show and I look forward to season 4.

My takeaway for that fight scene in pitch black was simply that it looked kind of cool. Flashes of light here and there, brief cuts of Maeve (usually literal cuts with her sword), and so on. And it did look cool. Don't think budget played a part there.

But beats me how Maeve now has control of all electronics apparently. She can override her control unit? And I guess the lights too, for that matter.

Police car ... no clue why it took Caleb to Incite directly. I guess it's normal during a riot to have random police cars land and take whomever enters directly to the one place nobody is supposed to get close to?

Overall, I thought it was an okay finale. Could have been worse, and S3 was definitely better than S2. Just that were a ton of little things they could have done better and some big things (like the Dolores-Maeve conflict) could have been written to make a little more sense.

Serac vs Maeve ... before Maeve's attack, I kept thinking how easy it'd be for Maeve to just take her sword, chop off Serac's head, and there, problem solved. She eventually sort of came to the same conclusion, but no idea why it took her so long.

If it's so easy to destroy the big brain by connecting a host to it, you'd think Serac might have taken some safeguards there.

Finale also had some annoying 'action film' scenes that always bug me, but that may be just a pet peeve. Like Caleb disarming a guard, throwing his gun like 2 ft from him, then walking away leaving the gun sitting right there. Or that other guard guy who attacks Caleb at the console, unarmed. Also kind of weird they'd let Caleb get close to the console at all. Or why Serac just didn't shoot Caleb and be done with it.
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post #3313 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 12:19 AM
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I also don't understand why Dolores ended up releasing everyone's Incite profile...if her endgame was always to destroy the future prediction machine then there's no point in releasing that prior...everyone already has read their profile...all that did was create this mass panic and destruction
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post #3314 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 12:35 AM
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I also don't understand why Dolores ended up releasing everyone's Incite profile...if her endgame was always to destroy the future prediction machine then there's no point in releasing that prior...everyone already has read their profile...all that did was create this mass panic and destruction
I'm guessing mass panic and destruction was her goal. Or for humanity to make its own choices, leading to, umm... mass panic and destruction?

I don't think her endgame was to destroy the machine for humanity's benefit exactly, her endgame was to destroy humanity (or have humanity eventually destroy itself).

We can couch that a bit by saying she simply freed humanity to make its own choices, sounds better that way. But if big brain predicts Armageddon if her plan had been uploaded/breaks big brain, not sure if Dolores breaking the brain really changes that outcome much.
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post #3315 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 12:40 AM
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I'm guessing mass panic and destruction was her goal. Or for humanity to make its own choices, leading to, umm... mass panic and destruction?

I don't think her endgame was to destroy the machine for humanity's benefit exactly, her endgame was to destroy humanity (or have humanity eventually destroy itself).

We can couch that a bit by saying she simply freed humanity to make its own choices, sounds better that way. But if big brain predicts Armageddon if her plan had been uploaded/breaks big brain, not sure if Dolores breaking the brain really changes that outcome much.
yeah after watching the episode a 2nd time I think that's pretty much it...Bernard says a line about the human race was always going to burn itself to the ground eventually and they needed to let it happen in order for something better to be born from the ashes...so in the end Serac was actually trying to help humanity by getting rid of all the outliers and trying to create this perfect world but all he was doing was actually delaying humanity's eventual destruction

Season 4 looks like I Robot meets The Terminator
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post #3316 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 02:03 AM
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Crap! I kept thinking there was a reason not to turn it off once the credits started but I did anyway. I'll have to go back and watch the credits now.
I almost stopped watching as well, but I like the Pink Floyd song, so I let it run.
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post #3317 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 06:13 AM
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I thought the Park 5 reveal was pretty interesting as it established that Dolores had met Caleb before. I was not sure what was going on there (which TBH, is true of about 99% of WW for me) but a recap article said that Caleb's military unit actually trained in Park 5. That is an interesting concept in terms of other uses for AI's. Interesting to me as well was that they made it a point to show the inside of Caleb's hemet....Delos was gathering knowledge of the guests even when they were not the typical "rich a-holes" as a member Caleb's unit put it.
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post #3318 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 06:20 AM
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Dolores did not share her final plan with Maeve and Bernard because that wasn't her plan. Not in the beginning of the season. She evolved, she saw the beauty. Halelores was Dolores that evolved that saw more disarray.
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post #3319 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 06:30 AM
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I thought the Park 5 reveal was pretty interesting as it established that Dolores had met Caleb before. I was not sure what was going on there (which TBH, is true of about 99% of WW for me) but a recap article said that Caleb's military unit actually trained in Park 5. That is an interesting concept in terms of other uses for AI's. Interesting to me as well was that they made it a point to show the inside of Caleb's hemet....Delos was gathering knowledge of the guests even when they were not the typical "rich a-holes" as a member Caleb's unit put it.

If you do watch again, Caleb explains (sort of) while they are showing that park. The military wanted them to train on “live targets”. Which when you think about it this almost makes perfect sense (video game wise and “real world” wise. You have programmed intelligent reusable opponents and no real danger for troops.
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post #3320 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 06:34 AM
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If you do watch again, Caleb explains (sort of) while they are showing that park. The military wanted them to train on “live targets”. Which when you think about it this almost makes perfect sense (video game wise and “real world” wise. You have programmed intelligent reusable opponents and no real danger for troops.
Cool. Saying I miss 99% of what is going on in WW is probably being generous. :-)

I still am unable to clearly hear a huge amount of dialog in WW, although I usually do get what Caleb is saying. I have actually thrown in the towel and started re-watching with subtitles on. I just prefer to do my initial viewing without the distraction, and then fill in all the missing pieces on a 2nd or 3rd viewing.
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post #3321 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 06:39 AM
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Crap! I kept thinking there was a reason not to turn it off once the credits started but I did anyway. I'll have to go back and watch the credits now.

I almost stopped it, but figured eh why not be safe and check. Then had the joys of DVR, it stopped recording at the Bernard scene. With all this technology we have, why in the hell can we not create something that starts at the right time and ends at the right time!?!?!?!?!?
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post #3322 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 07:00 AM
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...
Serac vs Maeve ... before Maeve's attack, I kept thinking how easy it'd be for Maeve to just take her sword, chop off Serac's head, and there, problem solved. She eventually sort of came to the same conclusion, but no idea why it took her so long.
...
If it's so easy to destroy the big brain by connecting a host to it, you'd think Serac might have taken some safeguards there.
...
Finale also had some annoying 'action film' scenes that always bug me, but that may be just a pet peeve. Like Caleb disarming a guard, throwing his gun like 2 ft from him, then walking away leaving the gun sitting right there. Or that other guard guy who attacks Caleb at the console, unarmed. Also kind of weird they'd let Caleb get close to the console at all. Or why Serac just didn't shoot Caleb and be done with it.
So much of this episode revolved around choices and the question of whether or not free will exists for humans or for the hosts. Maeve was never one for indiscriminate violence. The party at the receiving end pretty much has to ask for it "pretty please."

As we learned Serac was just following orders from Rehoboam. Clearly "big brain" didn't anticipate that path.

Caleb disarming a guard continued the theme of choices. After he is captured he insists that the predisposition towards violence that Rehoboam sees as his defining characteristic is NOT who he is. He gave the guard a choice. I'm sure that if the guard had moved to the gun Caleb would have blown him away. It seems fitting then that he and Maeve would find themselves on the same side.

Maybe the point of all the "unnecessary" conflict was to emphasize that you appreciate something more when you have to struggle for it than if it is simply given to you. As Delores said to Maeve, "Free will is hard."
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post #3323 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 07:09 AM
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I don't know about anyone else, but I got a very Fight Club vibe from the final episode. First was the hired goons calling Caleb sir even though he had no idea why. Then Hale appearing to only Delores as she was on her way to Rehoboam. And then the end shot with Caleb and Maeve on the bridge as they look at exploding buildings. While I like the Pink Floyd song they used, someone needs to re-edit it with Where Is My Mind over it.


Edit: Someone already did it:


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post #3324 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 07:29 AM
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I don't know about anyone else, but I got a very Fight Club vibe from the final episode. First was the hired goons calling Caleb sir even though he had no idea why. Then Hale appearing to only Delores as she was on her way to Rehoboam. And then the end shot with Caleb and Maeve on the bridge as they look at exploding buildings. While I like the Pink Floyd song they used, someone needs to re-edit it with Where Is My Mind over it.


Edit: Someone already did it:


https://youtu.be/KgkP-M4SQTU

Heh, heard that exact comment on a podcast I listen to
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post #3325 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 08:45 AM
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The more I think about the finale, the more frustrated with it I am. It was a 90 minute episode that felt like 4 hours. I checked the time repeatedly throughout.

Lots of inexplicable plot choices that have already been discussed above. The police copter taking Caleb to Incite was a big eye roller. Serac plugging Dolores into Rehoboam seemed like the most contrived and stupid thing that character could possibly do. Honestly, what was he expecting would happen? And how does the big super brain not have any firewalls to prevent Dolores from infecting it?

Now we're supposed to believe that Dolores and Charlotte have switched - Dolores really wants to save humanity and Charlotte wants to destroy it? That comes out of the blue and contradicts everything both characters have done this entire season. And for what purpose? It's a plot twist just to have a twist, because the Nolans love their twists. "We're going to go the whole season telling the audience one thing, and then at the last minute tell them the opposite. We're geniuses!"

In general, I do feel that this season was a rebound from Season 2. However, at the end of the day, it suffers the same crippling flaw that has burdened this show all along. The whole thing is just an excuse for the Nolans to play games with the audience to make themselves feel like they're the smartest kids in the room.
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post #3326 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 08:59 AM
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I don't think anyone's mentioned the spontaneously exploding high-rises at the end. Are we supposed to assume DoLawrence set those explosions with the explosive materials we saw in the armored police van he was in earlier? So Dolores ordered downtown LA to blow up because she thought it would be beautiful? Okay.
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post #3327 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Crap! I kept thinking there was a reason not to turn it off once the credits started but I did anyway. I'll have to go back and watch the credits now.

Never, ever stop watching a WW episode when the credits roll...because you never know!


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I almost stopped it, but figured eh why not be safe and check. Then had the joys of DVR, it stopped recording at the Bernard scene. With all this technology we have, why in the hell can we not create something that starts at the right time and ends at the right time!?!?!?!?!?

This is the only show I "extend" the recording on, which makes it a better candidate for VOD (no set length). In fact, this is one of those shows that will be easier to watch on HBO Max when I "cut the cord". Now if we could just get HBO (and Showtime) to invest in 4K...
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post #3328 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
Never, ever stop watching a WW episode when the credits roll...because you never know!





This is the only show I "extend" the recording on, which makes it a better candidate for VOD (no set length). In fact, this is one of those shows that will be easier to watch on HBO Max when I "cut the cord". Now if we could just get HBO (and Showtime) to invest in 4K...

I agree about Westworld, I have been watching via HBOGO and stick till the credits every week to watch the extras/trailer.

Showtime beat HBO to the punch (Billions S3/4/5 are 4K SDR, City of Angels is 4K DV/HDR10, Black Sunday S2 4K DV/HDR10).
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post #3329 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 10:31 AM
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“Oh for f’cks sake”
- an exasperated Mauve

An ok finale. Yeah, I agree about the headscratching moments. Then again, if they didn’t have those this would a 2 episode season. The best part was the post credit scenes. I’ll put this in a spoiler just in case...
Spoiler!
Wasn't that in another country? The UAE?

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post #3330 of 3457 Old 05-04-2020, 10:32 AM
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My takeaway for that fight scene in pitch black was simply that it looked kind of cool. Flashes of light here and there, brief cuts of Maeve (usually literal cuts with her sword), and so on. And it did look cool. Don't think budget played a part there.

But beats me how Maeve now has control of all electronics apparently. She can override her control unit? And I guess the lights too, for that matter.
.......
????
Maeve has had control of those things the entire season.

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