2016 The Masters Golf in 4K - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by GCocks View Post
I can't find the app in the Samsung Smart Hub. Someone please help. I checked for updates and there are non. i have a Samsung 4k Curved 65" in my office with 100g up and down on a fiber connection.
I can't find it either. Does anyone know which 4K Samsungs are supported? I have the UN65HU8550.
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post #32 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 07:21 AM
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I have the 65JS8500 and I have been able to install the Masters App. Been watching Amen Corner coverage for two days now. The picture is fantastic and includes HDR. Another plus - absolutely no advertising. I have Directv and when I got my 4k tv, I had an update done requesting the latest in 4K equipment. They brought out a HR44 instead of the HR54 I wanted and told me there was no difference in the HR44 and the HR54 except that the HR54 had Wireless Wi-fi. They lied and now I am pissed with them, but this Masters App saved the day and now I'm not sure I want additional Directv 4K at least until they have a lot more 4K programming available (I can get the on demand 4K stuff they offer now, just not the linear 4K programming that only the HR54 can receive and that the HR44 cannot).

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post #33 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MGBPUFF View Post
I have the 65JS8500 and I have been able to install the Masters App. Been watching Amen Corner coverage for two days now. The picture is fantastic and includes HDR. Another plus - absolutely no advertising. I have Directv and when I got my 4k tv, I had an update done requesting the latest in 4K equipment. They brought out a HR44 instead of the HR54 I wanted and told me there was no difference in the HR44 and the HR54 except that the HR54 had Wireless Wi-fi. They lied and now I am pissed with them, but this Masters App saved the day and now I'm not sure I want additional Directv 4K at least until they have a lot more 4K programming available (I can get the on demand 4K stuff they offer now, just not the linear 4K programming that only the HR54 can receive and that the HR44 cannot).

How do you know this? I watched through both the app and the Directv feed yesterday and didn't notice it in HDR.
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post #34 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 08:47 AM
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I have the UN65HU8550 as well and can't find it anywhere.
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post #35 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tmdorsey View Post
How do you know this? I watched through both the app and the Directv feed yesterday and didn't notice it in HDR.
I guess I really don't know, but it sure looks like HDR on my set and I have seen HDR via other sources, MGO, and Samsung UBD-8500 player with UHD discs.
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post #36 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tmdorsey View Post
How do you know this? I watched through both the app and the Directv feed yesterday and didn't notice it in HDR.
Hi TM,
A little off this topic, but DTV has no idea about the new reverse band LNBs required for post masters linear channels. Do you have any info on this. The tech who came here last knew about the reverse band LNBs, said they were rolling them out in select markets in April, such as Houston, but he didn't have one on his truck when he was here. It's working fine now, I can get the Masters in 4K 60HZ. Just want to be able to get the linear channels later.
Thanks,
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post #37 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 10:42 AM
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I have a Samsung UHD tv. Got to go into smart hub and search 'masters 4K' exactly like that. If you try to search for amen corner or anything it won't come up.

Installed yesterday and fired it up this morning hard wired into my internet. Came up a few min late and they were sound testing but it's been flawless since. Really looks great and sounds great too. Not a single blip in the stream since it started. I'm on a very modest 15/15 plan from Verizon FIOS but speed tested I get 30/5 on a typical day. I read in ones of the articles they recommend 25 Mbps download minimum which sounds about right. Amazing how far streaming has truly come.

Does the broadcast floor me and make my eyes pop out? No. It will look like perfect but regular HD to most folks. I do see the difference but it isn't a total game changer. To be fair my living room has sun streaming in from skylights and big windows so later afternoon will be better viewing....That said I'm happy to see the early days of live broadcast 4K. Feels like when I joined this forum in the early 2000s hunting for HD content.


Also the article in the masters website said holes 6 and 16 but I'm seeing other holes like 11, 12, and 13 as well.

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post #38 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Star56 View Post
The 4K rollout by DirecTv has been an interesting one. Right now they are running a 4K test channel with a video loop of a scene from Augusta. You need to have one of two top packages, you need to have a 4K client and their newest genie.

There was much debate if an actual dish LNB upgrade was needed. Apparently it will be needed to watch the post Master's 4 k channels but not The Masters.

As far as HD quality declining, I think this is a myth and I have evidence. I have been recording HD 1920x1080i digitally off of a cable box since 2002. I used the DVHS as a bit dump..zero loss. My local cable company was known for its HD quality in the early years. Comparing those 1080i recordings to today's DirecTv 1080i I see little or no difference. In fact, DirecTv's HD is as good as I have seen in any broadcast format including over the air.

This is a common memory error that people fall into. NTSC was the same way. People longed for the days of clean NTSC 480i claiming it had degraded by the 1990s.
Reading the article the hoops to get directtv working for this seemed ridiculous and prohibitive. Just like the early days of HD.

I found the app to be very easy other than having to search for it just so to find it.

As for early HD I remember it being very bad for compression on certain stations, very bad with certain turf especially artificial turf (twinkling or swimming grass) and very bad during certain sequencens of light patters like strobe lights. Most if not all of that is gone today, at least for me. I have Veriozn FIOS in the suburbs. I also recently upgraded to 4K uhd tv.....my 1080p broadcasts are the best I've ever seen prior to today's live masters in 4k.....My parents are on Comcast in a similar community but have compression artificacts. I feel like Comcast in our area has got too many subscribers or some other issue as friends in a nearby city have pretty bad compression artifacts as well.

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post #39 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Carter D View Post
Hi TM,

A little off this topic, but DTV has no idea about the new reverse band LNBs required for post masters linear channels. Do you have any info on this. The tech who came here last knew about the reverse band LNBs, said they were rolling them out in select markets in April, such as Houston, but he didn't have one on his truck when he was here. It's working fine now, I can get the Masters in 4K 60HZ. Just want to be able to get the linear channels later.

Thanks,

Carter


From what I read, the reverse LNBs won't be required for linear 4K till later down the road. My guess is when they start adding more 4K channels. I think as of this week any new 4K equipment installs will come with the new LNB. If you are really concerned about it, you probably could call Directv and get them come back out and install the LNBs. That's what I plan on doing at some point.
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post #40 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tmdorsey View Post
From what I read, the reverse LNBs won't be required for linear 4K till later down the road. My guess is when they start adding more 4K channels. I think as of this week any new 4K equipment installs will come with the new LNB. If you are really concerned about it, you probably could call Directv and get them come back out and install the LNBs. That's what I plan on doing at some point.
DTV is hopeless. I read on the Satellite guys forum that all new installations require the new LNB. Called DTV and got no answers from them. Solid Signal has the reverse band LNB for sale now at 99.00. I may go that route rather than wait for DTV. I don't know when the new linear channels go live at this point. DTV's install of the new LNB would probably be free, but they charged me 210.00 for 2 C 61s, so who knows.
Thanks,
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post #41 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 12:55 PM
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Inside the 4K production at The Masters:

http://www.sportsvideo.org/2016/03/1...t-the-masters/

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post #42 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MGBPUFF View Post
I guess I really don't know, but it sure looks like HDR on my set and I have seen HDR via other sources, MGO, and Samsung UBD-8500 player with UHD discs.
Here is portion on a release from CBS on HDR.

No HDR at Augusta
Although CBS and DirecTV explored the prospect of producing The Masters in HDR as well, Aagaard says the technology and standards are simply not mature enough.

“We would love to be able to do this in HDR, but the technology is definitely not ready for that yet,” he says. “We are going to have to pass on the HDR piece right now. It’s not all there from a technology perspective to be able to make it all work.”
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post #43 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Carter D View Post
DTV is hopeless. I read on the Satellite guys forum that all new installations require the new LNB. Called DTV and got no answers from them. Solid Signal has the reverse band LNB for sale now at 99.00. I may go that route rather than wait for DTV. I don't know when the new linear channels go live at this point. DTV's install of the new LNB would probably be free, but they charged me 210.00 for 2 C 61s, so who knows.

Thanks,

Carter


I don't think we will see any additional channels outside of the 3 available now for awhile. Don't think you need to be in any rush to get the new LNB at this time.
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post #44 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tmdorsey View Post
How do you know this? I watched through both the app and the Directv feed yesterday .
While we know it is not in HDR (see latest post) how does the app feed compare PQ wise to the Directv feed?
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post #45 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by tmdorsey View Post
I don't think we will see any additional channels outside of the 3 available now for awhile. Don't think you need to be in any rush to get the new LNB at this time.
Thanks TM. Patience is a virtue no?
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post #46 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Gator1 View Post
While we know it is not in HDR (see latest post) how does the app feed compare PQ wise to the Directv feed?


Honestly, I can't tell much of a difference between them.
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post #47 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 02:47 PM
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How does HDR differ from 4K?
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post #48 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 03:00 PM
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2016 The Masters Golf in 4K

The shot from the 13th tee is one of my favorites in 4K and Jim Nance just made a 4K reference. Haha.
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post #49 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 03:03 PM
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How does HDR differ from 4K?
4K/UHD specifies the resolution (more accurately the spatial - i.e. horizontal and vertical resolution). UHD1 is 3840x2160 (there is also 4K 4096x2160 content)

HDR specifies an extended dynamic range for the brightness of each pixel - i.e. brighter highlights, darker lowlights and more levels in between.

So you could say : UHD/4K = more pixels, HDR = better pixels.

You can have HDR HD pictures (there's a suggestion to use 1080/50p HDR in Europe if it can be simulcast for non-HDR receivers) and UHD/4K pictures without HDR. (In fact most UHD/4K at the moment is not HDR)

HDR is arriving at the same time as UHD, and you only really find HDR on UHD displays (but not all UHD displays are HDR)
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post #50 of 74 Old 04-09-2016, 03:06 PM
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My goodness even the 1080i stuff looks poor after you watch the 4K broadcast for hours. I am ruined

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post #51 of 74 Old 04-10-2016, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by macd23 View Post
Inside the 4K production at The Masters:

http://www.sportsvideo.org/2016/03/1...t-the-masters/
And note that the reality is that 4K (aka UHD1) production really uses 1080/59.94p technology in groups of 4. So the GVG switcher has 192 HD inputs, but this drops to 48 UHD/4K inputs. This is because the UHD content is split into 4 separate 1080p feeds (usually 1/4 screen tiles) for routing, server record/replay and switching. If you want to do UHD production at the moment you use high-end HD production gear (other than cameras, monitors and in some cases recorders which are UHD) with your functionality quartered... (4 x 3G-HD-SDI connectivity for every UHD source/destination basically, so a 256x256 router becomes a 64x64 router, a 4-in, 4-out EVS XT3 becomes a 1-in, 1-out etc...) (*)

IP routing and I/O for switchers and servers may change this, though to give you an idea of the data rates involved with UHD/4K - you can't realistically get uncompressed UHD down 10GbE ethernet connections without mezzanine compression like VC-2...

An uncompressed 3840x2160/60p 4:2:2 10-bit source has a bitrate of around 9.95Gb/s (before any IP encapsulation etc.), rising to 1.8Gb/s if you use 4:4:4 12 bit (which is more likely to be used for high-end movie/drama acquisition - which is likely to be compressed in-camera - but will still require monitoring uncompressed).

And if you think those numbers are scary - remember Tokyo 2020 Olympic coverage is likely to be 8K UHD2 (as is some trial material shot at Rio 2016, just as was the case at London 2012)

UHD2 is likely to be 7680x4320/120p at 12 bit potentially - which is around 95Gb/s uncompressed at 4:2:2 12 bit, though I think NHK are using some trickery to get this down to 48Gb/s. (Those are Gigabit/second not Megabit/second figures...)


(*) For those of us old enough to remember the early days of HD this is very reminiscent of the original BBC/BTS system used to record HD digitally uncompressed using 4 x D1 3/4" SD uncompressed Digital VTRs. Rather than 1/4 screen tiles though, the HD picture was divided into 2x2 sample groups with each of these 4 samples recorded to a separate DVTR, so you got 4 full-screen 1/4 resolution (and very aliasy) recordings, one on each VTR. You could then edit in the SD domain using one of the 4 source pictures, create an Edit Decision List, and repeat the process automatically on the other 3 VTRs (usually using the 4VTRs as an edit suite). This allowed you to use some SD post production functionality to edit HD. Neat way of recording 1440x1152 (i.e. 720x576 x 4) without having to buy bespoke HD VTRs. <Sorry - very off topic >

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post #52 of 74 Old 04-10-2016, 06:08 AM
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I have the UN65HU8550 as well and can't find it anywhere.
Seems like those of us with the 2014 models are out of luck? I wonder if it would work if we added the 2015 Evolution Kit (SEK-3500)?
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post #53 of 74 Old 04-10-2016, 06:25 AM
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My goodness even the 1080i stuff looks poor after you watch the 4K broadcast for hours. I am ruined
Perhaps your non-4k sets are not quite up to par. (no pun intended).

Perhaps I misremembered.

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post #54 of 74 Old 04-10-2016, 06:48 AM
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Seems like those of us with the 2014 models are out of luck? I wonder if it would work if we added the 2015 Evolution Kit (SEK-3500)?
Official statement from the Samsung App Store ...

"Users with a 2015/2016 model Samsung Tizen 4K UHD or 4K SUHD television and a 25 megabits per second internet connection will enjoy more than six hours of live 4K Tournament coverage each day."

Here's the link -- http://www.samsung.com/us/appstore/app.do?appId=G16089007086

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post #55 of 74 Old 04-10-2016, 08:47 AM
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Watching CBS's 1080i coverage here. So, from the linked sportsvideo article above, assume that means only Amen Corner holes 11--13, rigged with Sony 4k three-sensor cameras, are delivering down-converted 1080i from CBS.

Guess holes 1--10 and 14--18 for the DirecTV UHD 4k Masters coverage are using up-converted 1080 (to 4k) then? And if so, wonder if anyone viewing DirecTV can see a difference between true-4k Amen Corner holes and the others?

Also, if each 4k frame involves processing 4 1080 frames, stitched together as sneals2000 describes above for early HD, that seems similar to the technique outlined and demonstrated for several years by a Japanese professor for up-converting full HD (1080) to either 4k or 8k. His team's technique uses filters to sense higher frequencies/resolutions, amplifying their harmonics, and splicing in resolutions in realtime above the Nyquist frequencies (normally unseen). Some of his papers are sublinked here. -- John

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post #56 of 74 Old 04-10-2016, 08:57 AM
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Watching CBS's 1080i coverage here. So, from the linked sportstv article above, assume that means only Amen Corner holes 11--13, rigged with Sony 4k three-sensor cameras, are delivering down-converted 1080i from CBS.



Guess holes 1--10 and 14--18 for the DirecTV UHD 4k Masters coverage are using up-converted 1080 (to 4k) then? And if so, wonder if anyone viewing DirecTV can see a difference between true-4k Amen Corner holes and the others?



Also, if each 4k frame involves processing 4 1080 frames, stitched together as sneals2000 describes above for early HD, that seems similar to the technique outlined and demonstrated for several years by a Japanese professor for up-converting full HD (1080) to either 4k or 8k. His team's technique uses filters to sense higher frequencies/resolutions, amplifying their harmonics, and splicing in resolutions in realtime above the Nyquist frequencies (normally unseen). Some of his papers are sublinked here. -- John


The Directv feed is only showing holes 11-13.
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post #57 of 74 Old 04-10-2016, 09:00 AM
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First a little about my setup. Since the Pioneer SC81 receivers are not HDCP 2.2 compliant, I have my DTV receivers and Roku 4's running through the Samsung's with digital optical back to the receivers for audio.

I've really been enjoying the 4K Amen Corner Masters coverage the past couple days and it has been, in my opinion, pretty spectacular.

HOWEVER, when I returned to the regular HD Masters program, I thought the picture was horrible. Soft. Fuzzy. Just not good. At first I thought it was just my overreaction to the contrast between the two resolutions. So just for grins, I reconnected my OTA antenna and tuned to local CBS 19.1. The picture, although obviously not as good as the 4K, was outstanding compared to DTV. Quite frustrating.

I know that DTV HD signal has been an issue on this forum in the past, but I never expected the OTA signal to be that much better. I will give DTV some time to figure out 4K and hopefully provide enough programming to make it interesting, but this was a telling comparison.

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post #58 of 74 Old 04-10-2016, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by tmdorsey View Post
The shot from the 13th tee is one of my favorites in 4K and Jim Nance just made a 4K reference. Haha.
As a golf fan, I think that shot behind the tee on 13 is one of the most beautiful, iconic shots in the sport.

But for me, the beauty of the Amen Corner 4K coverage is not having to listen to the overly sappy Nance for a little while. Make no mistake, golf is my passion, and the Masters is my favorite. But the whole CBS presentation is so over the top in its pretentiousness. I know much of that is driven by Augusta itself, but Nance delivers the sap "unlike any other" in the business.
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post #59 of 74 Old 04-10-2016, 09:43 AM
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Just search Masters and it will appear. It's not listed under any of the categories.

Amazing 4K picture quality! Man it's going to be tough to watch the CBS 1080 feed now! The bar has been set for sports and this broadcast via the Amen corner 4K app has been flawless on a Timewarner Maxx internet line.

Would love to see more and more 4K TV apps released for sports as if you have the bandwidth this is clearly the best way to view the content. Great job Augusta/CBS and Mr. Payne. Hoping next year we have a 4K Apple TV and a dedicated TVos Masters 4K app for 2017! Until then definitely enjoying this without the need of the Directv hoops some have had to jump through. Apps are definitely the future for sure
I looked on my Samsung and I cannot find the app. Frankly it's beginning to get really annoying. I chat with the Samsung Tech Support, andthey "assured" me they know nothing about it, and if if doesn't show up on their website then it would never be available on any TV's. Then this morning, there4 it is on the website, but nothing still on my TV. Reading the fine print:

"Users with a 2015/2016 model Samsung Tizen 4K UHD or 4K SUHD television and a 25 megabits per second internet connection will enjoy more than six hours of live 4K Tournament coverage each day."

Why is that? So early adoption is now being punished? This makes me very angry, anyone know what it is about the app that can't be run on a UN60HU8550?
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post #60 of 74 Old 04-10-2016, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ParsonsBri View Post
As a golf fan, I think that shot behind the tee on 13 is one of the most beautiful, iconic shots in the sport.
Interestingly, up the hill right behind the 13th tee is a fairway of another golf course, not part of Augusta National. I think it's called the Augusta Golf Club...? Sometimes you can catch a glimpse of it on TV, but if you're there in person it's easy to see. That's why I don't think they have enough room to move the tee back, as their stated desire is to lengthen the hole. They'll have to re-route the tee shot somehow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParsonsBri
But for me, the beauty of the Amen Corner 4K coverage is not having to listen to the overly sappy Nance for a little while. Make no mistake, golf is my passion, and the Masters is my favorite. But the whole CBS presentation is so over the top in its pretentiousness. I know much of that is driven by Augusta itself, but Nance delivers the sap "unlike any other" in the business.
Well, at least they finally got him to stop saying "Glory's last shot" during the PGA Championship. I winced every time I heard it. So... progress!
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