Survivor: Millennials vs. Gen X CBS, Sept 21st 2016 - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 218 Old 12-01-2016, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by lexluthor View Post
Another excellent episode. I really enjoyed the family visits. I sure hope we get to see Adam's mom at the live finale.

I think they finally portrayed Ken in a less than positive light and not sure I'm routing for him anymore. Towards the middle of the episode, I decided I wanted Zeke to win. So much for that. Jay is starting to grow on me a bit.
I'm afraid that Adam's mom passed away one or two days after the series finished filming.
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post #152 of 218 Old 12-01-2016, 10:59 AM
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I will miss Zeke. He was a great player.
Yes, probably one of the more likable players in a long time and a very solid game player as well.

I think we'll see Zeke play again.

Sad news about Adam's mom. It didn't sound very promising during the discussion with his brother.
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post #153 of 218 Old 12-01-2016, 12:49 PM
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New respect for Jay, Adam and Will.

Ken, as I was afraid of, melted down, blew up his game and washed away the respect I had for him. Hero, to Zero.

Yeah, it appears editing is used to build up people, then show their lesser attributes later, to tear them down

I agree, it was a great episode! A few back, after Makahla I was bored with it, now I'm glad I hung in.

The family portion was very touching and real.

I will miss Zeke. He was a great player.
Agreed. Ken really jumped the shark.

At least Zeke will have some time to bond with his Sooner idol at Ponderosa.
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post #154 of 218 Old 12-01-2016, 01:24 PM
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I've actually been hoping Dave and Hanna go far for the past few weeks, & was rooting for Dave in the David/Zeke showdown .
The remaining players should start to now see the Boston cop guy as becoming a likable but serious threat to stay in the game .....
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post #155 of 218 Old 12-01-2016, 04:25 PM
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Ken made one of the worst moves in Survivor history. Zero logic or upside to it, and the integrity argument made no sense.

Adam wasted his idol but I guess he didn't know Will was so intent on flipping. Very odd way for Jeff to read the votes, like the immunity idol mattered.
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post #156 of 218 Old 12-01-2016, 05:30 PM
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Dave reminds me a bit of Ginsberg from Mad Men. The very creative, manic and self torturing artist.

Dave deserves a lot of credit for overcoming his fear. Just getting to this point is a win.
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post #157 of 218 Old 12-02-2016, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by djb5f View Post
"....Very odd way for Jeff to read the votes, like the immunity idol mattered.."
I remember reading that before Jeff comes back with the jar, the producers put the written votes in "dramatic order" whenever they can..
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post #158 of 218 Old 12-02-2016, 07:47 AM
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Ken is suffering from a case of severe paranoia, not uncommon at this point in any season .. I hope he recovers and gets his Zen back .. Will is nothing but what he shows himself to be, a kid .. respect .. ?? Earn some ..

Zeke was a mouth, figured he had it in the bag .. a sure sign you're going to get the boot .. I don't get why people think he was a great player ..
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post #159 of 218 Old 12-02-2016, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MeatChicken View Post
I remember reading that before Jeff comes back with the jar, the producers put the written votes in "dramatic order" whenever they can..
I thought they just edited the footage post-production in order to give the readings any extra drama possible ..

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post #160 of 218 Old 12-02-2016, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
I thought they just edited the footage post-production in order to give the readings any extra drama possible ..
There were only two people voted. They put the votes in the container after tallying them, all for Hannah, then a separator, and then all for zeke. If nothing happened he would of done his normal, pull one out for Hannah, then one for Zeke, then Hannah, etc. When the idol was played, he already knew the best thing to do was grab all of them for Hannah first.


Pretty easy and no editing needed.

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post #161 of 218 Old 12-02-2016, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post
There were only two people voted. They put the votes in the container after tallying them, all for Hannah, then a separator, and then all for zeke. If nothing happened he would of done his normal, pull one out for Hannah, then one for Zeke, then Hannah, etc. When the idol was played, he already knew the best thing to do was grab all of them for Hannah first.


Pretty easy and no editing needed.
Right, but it was disingenious. He obviously sets up an order of how to read them but why make it seem like the idol mattered except to trick the audience (and perhaps the contestants)? I bet most of the audience didn't pick up that the idol play had no impact.

That said, I imagine remaining contestants saw through the ruse but Will could potentially tell each side he voted with them so if anyone gets an advantage from the trickeration, it could be him.

But the downside for Will is bigger in that his "big move" got muted, compounded by the way the votes were read! Instead of making it like Adam's idol play was wasted (which it was), they made it look like Will's big move was wasted.

Reading the votes in an order for an effect is normal, but this one seemed like it was influencing or had the chance to influence the game more than normal. It was like they were trying to deceive.

Just don't recall the trickeration for other votes when an idol is played and doesn't have an impact.

Would love to see another 4 v 4 vote next week and come down to rocks (but someone would cave this time around). Just relieved that Jessica is out of the game; she had a strong sense of entitlement after David saved her to no doing of her own.

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post #162 of 218 Old 12-02-2016, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post
There were only two people voted. They put the votes in the container after tallying them, all for Hannah, then a separator, and then all for zeke. If nothing happened he would of done his normal, pull one out for Hannah, then one for Zeke, then Hannah, etc. When the idol was played, he already knew the best thing to do was grab all of them for Hannah first.


Pretty easy and no editing needed.
All I'm suggesting is no post-vote manual manipulation of the vote papers is required .. it can simply be edited in production to show what ever order the Producers want it to be .. and I would guess that's how it's done rather than a behind the scenes guy on the spot digging thru votes .. of course, since I'm not there, I can't say for sure manual manipulation does not take place ..

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post #163 of 218 Old 12-02-2016, 01:03 PM
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All I'm suggesting is no post-vote manual manipulation of the vote papers is required .. it can simply be edited in production to show what ever order the Producers want it to be .. and I would guess that's how it's done rather than a behind the scenes guy on the spot digging thru votes .. of course, since I'm not there, I can't say for sure manual manipulation does not take place ..
I'm actually pretty sure from reading something previous, there is "time" between "Ill go tally the votes" & the read, so production can put them in an entertaining or suspenseful order for Jeff to read ...
** While I am typing this I also searched & found this Jeff Probst interview, I'm sure there more to find too:

JEFF PROBST: "Okay, so here’s the truth. Any time someone who I know has an idol also receives votes, I have to be prepared for them to play the idol. So I stack the votes prepared for them to play the idol, as that is the assumption I always make. If they play the idol, I read the votes as read and we usually eliminate their votes off the top so we can delay the reveal of who is going home. If they don’t play the idol, then I have to pull the votes out in an order different from the way they are stacked. In this case it was a bit more complicated because we had two potential idols that might or might not be played. It’s definitely the only time I am ever slightly stressed about reading the votes simply because I don’t want to mess up the drama. In the end, from a game point of view, it doesn’t matter how you reveal them — an idol negates votes. We just want to present them in the most dramatic fashion, so we pay close attention and try to think through every scenario..."


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post #164 of 218 Old 12-02-2016, 01:09 PM
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I'm actually pretty sure from reading something previous, there is "time" between "Ill go tally the votes" & the read, so production can put them in an entertaining or suspenseful order for Jeff to read ...
** While I am typing this I also searched & found this Jeff Probst interview, I'm sure there more to find too:

JEFF PROBST: "Okay, so here’s the truth. Any time someone who I know has an idol also receives votes, I have to be prepared for them to play the idol. So I stack the votes prepared for them to play the idol, as that is the assumption I always make. If they play the idol, I read the votes as read and we usually eliminate their votes off the top so we can delay the reveal of who is going home. If they don’t play the idol, then I have to pull the votes out in an order different from the way they are stacked. In this case it was a bit more complicated because we had two potential idols that might or might not be played. It’s definitely the only time I am ever slightly stressed about reading the votes simply because I don’t want to mess up the drama. In the end, from a game point of view, it doesn’t matter how you reveal them — an idol negates votes. We just want to present them in the most dramatic fashion, so we pay close attention and try to think through every scenario..."

Well, at least he admits it .. .. which means someone always knows beforehand who's got votes .. somehow, that just does not seem right .. oh, well, it's TV ..

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post #165 of 218 Old 12-02-2016, 01:18 PM
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Well, at least he admits it .. .. which means someone always knows beforehand who's got votes .. somehow, that just does not seem right .. oh, well, it's TV ..
So when he goes over to "tally the votes" , he & production take a min to verify who's going home, & put the votes in "reading order" based on if a vote getter has an idol they may play, & for entertainment/suspense ... the only 'hitch' is when there are multiple idols or idols being given across players .. then Jeff may have to be careful to pull votes in an order different from how they have been sorted...
** None of this bothers me, I know Jeff knows who got votes by time he reads them, that doesn't matter from a game standpoint, .. as he mentioned, it doesn't change anyone's vote, or the player that leaves, & everyone knows who they voted for ... Not sure why some think its almost manipulating the game .....

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post #166 of 218 Old 12-02-2016, 01:22 PM
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So when he goes over to "tally the votes" , he & production take a min to verify who's going home, & put the votes in "reading order" base on if a vote getter has an idol they may play, & for entertainment/suspense ... the only 'hitch' is when there are multiple idols or idols being given across players .. then Jeff has to be careful to pull votes in an order different from how they have been sorted...
** None of this bothers me .. as he mentioned, it doesn't change anyone's vote, or the player that leaves, & everyone knows who they voted for ... Not sure why some think its almost manipulating the game .....
I don't consider it game manipulation ..

audience manipulation, yes .. just to be expected, I suppose ..

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post #167 of 218 Old 12-02-2016, 01:26 PM
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I don't consider it game manipulation ..

audience manipulation, yes .. just to be expected, I suppose ..
Agreed.
The person in Post # 161 said
" ...Reading the votes in an order for an effect is normal, but this one seemed like it was influencing or had the chance to influence the game more than normal..."

I'm just not seeing that either ...

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post #168 of 218 Old 12-02-2016, 03:41 PM
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We'll see next week, if contestants discuss the actual tally.

Even if some were just hearing the 'does not count' and not counting the Zeke votes vs Hannah, some had to be. At least I hope some did
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post #169 of 218 Old 12-03-2016, 08:17 AM
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We'll see next week, if contestants discuss the actual tally.

Even if some were just hearing the 'does not count' and not counting the Zeke votes vs Hannah, some had to be. At least I hope some did
Yes, I imagine they will. It should be apparent to them that there were only 4 votes at the beginning for Hannah. That said, they really don't know for sure if there was another/more and just not read. They can assume there were no more but can't really be sure.

Post-editing would not work for showing the votes as Jeff is usually like 1 vote X, 1 vote Y. Or 3 votes X, etc. Every tribal for every Survivor season has been done for dramatic effect and Yes, he has admitted that many times. The only question here is that it made it look like playing the idol was impactful (advantage to Adam's game) and Will's "big move" was downgraded, lol.

Maybe a chicken or egg thing. But Adam might be "credit" for that unnecessary play should be make final tribal.
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post #170 of 218 Old 12-05-2016, 04:47 AM
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Right, but it was disingenious. He obviously sets up an order of how to read them but why make it seem like the idol mattered except to trick the audience (and perhaps the contestants)? I bet most of the audience didn't pick up that the idol play had no impact.
If people can't do rudimentary math then that is a whole other issue. Lets say there were 9 people left. He read the 4 votes that did not count, the remaining where for the other person. Simply saying 9 - 4 = 5 votes were remaining seems pretty obvious.

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post #171 of 218 Old 12-05-2016, 09:21 AM
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If people can't do rudimentary math then that is a whole other issue. Lets say there were 9 people left. He read the 4 votes that did not count, the remaining where for the other person. Simply saying 9 - 4 = 5 votes were remaining seems pretty obvious.
I don't remember how many of the Zeke votes that Jeff read out, but assuming that he read all of Hannah's votes first (4) and meaning there were 5 left, if Zeke had 3 out of the 5, he's still evicted. Jeff didn't need to read the final 2.

Obviously, the votes are sorted for maximum suspenseful effect for TV.
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post #172 of 218 Old 12-05-2016, 11:46 AM
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I don't remember how many of the Zeke votes that Jeff read out, but assuming that he read all of Hannah's votes first (4) and meaning there were 5 left, if Zeke had 3 out of the 5, he's still evicted. Jeff didn't need to read the final 2.

Obviously, the votes are sorted for maximum suspenseful effect for TV.


Right, he left two votes unread. I don't think there is a hard and fast rule for how he needs to read them, meaning while cast members might assume that Hannah only had 4 votes, the door is left open whether that assumption is in fact true. But they will simply ask and get the answer quickly.


The viewing audience was led to believe Hannah was a goner if not for Adam's idol play, and I'd say the majority of viewers aren't paying close attention to the quick vote reveal on the little exit interview..


One of those cases where either Adam's idol play mattered or Will's flipping mattered but they were redundant. What is interesting is if Adam gets credit for the play down the line. Either way, he is without an idol now.


This season may lead in number of times a cast member has played an idol for someone else. David really should be second-guessing his moves in this regard.
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post #173 of 218 Old 12-08-2016, 10:25 AM
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Surprising to see no comments yet with two eliminations last night. This season is missing a villain, IMO.
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post #174 of 218 Old 12-08-2016, 12:17 PM
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Surprising to see no comments yet with two eliminations last night. This season is missing a villain, IMO.
It is flat...Although I don't miss over the top drama, I find this group from beginning to now not very engaging...I tend to FF to challenges and tribal and bypass a lot of chat at camp...I even FF thru tribal. Just not into this season...mainly due to the contestants...they aren't very likeable/hateable compared to other seasons.
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post #175 of 218 Old 12-08-2016, 12:23 PM
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I thought it was a good move to get him paranoid to use his idol. That is three in a row that were played that did not need to be played.

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post #176 of 218 Old 12-08-2016, 12:28 PM
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.. Looks like from the previews Dave makes a phony immunity idol...
I hope he stays, but it would be fun to see him pull it out of his pocket at tribal, walk over, knowing it's fake, and hand it to Probst, & then Probst says :
" This is Not an immunity idol, and any votes for Dave Will count .. "
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post #177 of 218 Old 12-08-2016, 01:15 PM
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Jay is the one I want to win the least.

Everybody else ties for second place.
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post #178 of 218 Old 12-08-2016, 03:45 PM
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It is flat...Although I don't miss over the top drama, I find this group from beginning to now not very engaging...I tend to FF to challenges and tribal and bypass a lot of chat at camp...I even FF thru tribal. Just not into this season...mainly due to the contestants...they aren't very likeable/hateable compared to other seasons.
I'll take it a step further and say this has just not been a great season ..
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post #179 of 218 Old 12-09-2016, 06:57 AM
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I'll take it a step further and say this has just not been a great season ..
On the whole, I tend to agree with you. But, they have had some ALL-TIME classic Tribal Counsels this season.
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post #180 of 218 Old 12-09-2016, 07:16 AM
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While this cast might not be exciting for some, they are also all very thoughtful and balanced strategists. None, really creating any great drama or getting emotionally unhinged. All dealing quite well with the pressure the show brings, staying healthy and just deftly playing the game. The scene with the two guys on the hammock discussing their Mothers, was moving. Seeing Dave surviving and thriving still impresses me. As others have said, the tribal counsels have been some of the best this show has had. I like this season. On another note, as usual, I also like how it looks on my 2:35 projector screen, so viewing the 16x9 within it, at about 90" diagonal. great quality cameras on this show.

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