Star Trek: Discovery on CBS All Access - Page 58 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1711 of 1966 Old 03-08-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Where does Discovery lie in the Star Trek pantheon?

Judging by Rotten Tomatoes rating, it seems to be distinctly below all other ST series?

Would you guys agree with that apparent ranking? I’ve not watched it and haven’t subscribed to CBS — though TBH, I probably wouldn’t subscribe for just one show even if it was rated much higher.

I feel like your stirring the pot here. But no, so far it is the best of the series IMO. Through 1.5 seasons anyway. We'll see where it ends up.
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post #1712 of 1966 Old 03-08-2019, 12:22 PM
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Agreed! That was terrific.

Spoiler!



Ethan Peck, who plays Spock, will be the guest on The Ready Room later today.
Spoiler!
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post #1713 of 1966 Old 03-09-2019, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Where does Discovery lie in the Star Trek pantheon?

Judging by Rotten Tomatoes rating, it seems to be distinctly below all other ST series?

Would you guys agree with that apparent ranking? I’ve not watched it and haven’t subscribed to CBS — though TBH, I probably wouldn’t subscribe for just one show even if it was rated much higher.
Can't really say until it is done. However, it had the best first season for me of any trek by wide margin. I'm currently rewatching all of trek so everything up to the last season of voyager is fresh in my mind.
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post #1714 of 1966 Old 03-11-2019, 06:54 AM
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The USS Enterprise takes flight, under water. I found this vid, surprisingly satisfying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b056...&frags=pl%2Cwn
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post #1715 of 1966 Old 03-11-2019, 07:09 AM
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I remember how surprised all the Trekkers were on the opening weekend of Star Trek Into Darkness when they found out that the Enterprise is also a submarine, and the bridge crew happened to have Olympics-quality swimming skills.
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post #1716 of 1966 Old 03-11-2019, 08:47 AM
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I watch each week, so totally impressed, that I'm trying to figure out if I enjoy it so much as a "prisoner of the moment". Could it be that my thinking that this iteration of the Star Trek Universe is simply better than the past TV series because it's simply new and with fresh characters and "updated" storylines ? Second thoughts have me thinking that I enjoy it so much for MANY reasons. Primarily, the entire production value is top notch - casting, acting, storylines/writing, and special effects. All of these factors play out each and every week resulting in a final product that keeps me glued to my 65" OLED screen, making the entire experience eye-popping. The sound engineers are on it too, enabling my 7.1 surround system to completely bring the action to life.

I think what I'm saying here is that the producers of this show simply care about a supremely entertaining continuation of the Star Trek adventure.....and it shows in spades this second season of Discovery.
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post #1717 of 1966 Old 03-12-2019, 04:09 AM
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Forgive me but can someone remind me, did they address the issue that the technology in this show is so far advanced from the tech in the original series? I don't mean just the look of the special effects, but the use of holograms, sending what is on a thin sheet of plastic to a holographic display with the swipe of a hand, the items/weapons the former Emperor used, etc. etc. My wife keeps asking me and I don't recall if anything was ever addressed about that.

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post #1718 of 1966 Old 03-12-2019, 08:16 AM
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I really enjoyed the last 3 episodes, nice to enjoy Trek again. Last time I did was Enterprise.

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post #1719 of 1966 Old 03-12-2019, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post
Forgive me but can someone remind me, did they address the issue that the technology in this show is so far advanced from the tech in the original series? I don't mean just the look of the special effects, but the use of holograms, sending what is on a thin sheet of plastic to a holographic display with the swipe of a hand, the items/weapons the former Emperor used, etc. etc. My wife keeps asking me and I don't recall if anything was ever addressed about that.
I do not believe they have. Nor do I expect them to address it. It was the same with Enterprise. You just can't have it look like ST:TOS in today's viewing world. IMHO, the show would be laughed off the screen. Today's viewers expect glitz. I'm old enough to have watched ST:TOS and expect today's shows to have the capability today's technology can bring to the screen.

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post #1720 of 1966 Old 03-12-2019, 02:27 PM
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I do not believe they have. Nor do I expect them to address it. It was the same with Enterprise. You just can't have it look like ST:TOS in today's viewing world. IMHO, the show would be laughed off the screen. Today's viewers expect glitz. I'm old enough to have watched ST:TOS and expect today's shows to have the capability today's technology can bring to the screen.
Agreed, which is another reason I would have preferred a Post Voyager show. So many more possibilities.
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post #1721 of 1966 Old 03-12-2019, 06:16 PM
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I really enjoyed the last 3 episodes, nice to enjoy Trek again. Last time I did was Enterprise.
Seems you and me might be the only "Enterprise" fans on the board... for whatever reason it was not well received here.
I especially enjoyed season three (the Xindi arc) and season four.


IIRC there were even major gripes about the Enterprise theme song (the original and the second version).
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post #1722 of 1966 Old 03-12-2019, 06:26 PM
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Seems you and me might be the only "Enterprise" fans on the board... for whatever reason it was not well received here.
I especially enjoyed season three (the Xindi arc) and season four.


IIRC there were even major gripes about the Enterprise theme song (the original and the second version).
I liked it when it aired. I loved it when I re-watched them from the beginning recently.

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post #1723 of 1966 Old 03-12-2019, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by replayrob View Post
Seems you and me might be the only "Enterprise" fans on the board... for whatever reason it was not well received here.
I especially enjoyed season three (the Xindi arc) and season four.


IIRC there were even major gripes about the Enterprise theme song (the original and the second version).
Add me to the list. I enjoyed STE too, and its final season was awesome before it got the axe.

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post #1724 of 1966 Old 03-12-2019, 06:39 PM
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^ nice to finally see some love for "Enterprise"!

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post #1725 of 1966 Old 03-12-2019, 06:48 PM
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Forgive me but can someone remind me, did they address the issue that the technology in this show is so far advanced from the tech in the original series? I don't mean just the look of the special effects, but the use of holograms, sending what is on a thin sheet of plastic to a holographic display with the swipe of a hand, the items/weapons the former Emperor used, etc. etc.
Granted this is not your point/question, but I just want to say that the special effects are easily explained in the real world by bigger budgets, improved technology, and different artistic direction. Hopefully the Disco team never explains it in-universe because when previous teams have done that, it's been awkward or stupid. Klingon forehead-changing augment virus was a low point for me with Enterprise.

The DS9 Tribble episode explanation gets a pass from me because (A) it's a non-explanation, and (B) obviously the whole episode was a throwback and lighthearted retreat from the normal series.

To your point, some of this is very problematic but they have the whole series to explain it, so it's too early to judge. Everyone talks about the spore drive and holograms, but there are other issues too like interstellar telepathic chats between humans and vulcans.
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post #1726 of 1966 Old 03-12-2019, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by replayrob View Post
Seems you and me might be the only "Enterprise" fans on the board... for whatever reason it was not well received here.
I especially enjoyed season three (the Xindi arc) and season four.


IIRC there were even major gripes about the Enterprise theme song (the original and the second version).


Add me to the list. Liked Enterprise, especially season 3.
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post #1727 of 1966 Old 03-13-2019, 12:37 PM
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Just finished watching S1 Disco via BD discs. (I don't want CBS:AA to succeed, so I refuse to contribute to it.) I have not seen S2, so my comments only reflect on S1 and not the show as a whole to date.

So I'm a bit late for commenting on S1 compared to most, but here are my thoughts.

I did read through the thread, so I'll just try to stick to things that haven't already been hashed over.

The Good:
The Klingons finally look like aliens deserving of their reputation. TOS Klingons were, let's face it, humans. TOS movie and TNG Klingons were both better, but still had that "every alien in Trek is a human with forehead or nose ridges" problem. Roddenberry said that this isn't what he wanted Klingons to look like--it was simply the best they could do given budgets, time, and technology, and that viewers should use their imaginations to see these stand-ins as alien. Well we finally have Klingons that truly look alien to me, and I'm loving it. I'm loving the Kelpians too. Looking through this thread, apparently I am alone in this opinion--you are all wrong.

Ship combat is improved. I enjoy seeing the ships just pummeling each other. None of this "set navigation to evasion pattern six delta" or whatever meaningless nonsense they were saying. In TNG era ship combat, mostly DS9, the slow order-driven bridge action seemed to really clash with the exterior shots of the ship flying around like a fighter jet. They just didn't mesh. Disco ship combat has a more natural flow.

Hand to hand combat is vastly improved. For the first time when people are fighting, they look like they could be fighting. Not this ridiculous double-fisted punches, horizontal body throws, and other ineffectual nonsense. TOS combat is comically bad. TNG ground combat is unconvincing and has an awkwardly noticeable cadence. Thankfully we got away from Roddenberry's "the fights need to look futuristic".

Art and style of interiors look great. I'm thankful there's no TOS painted plywood with gem controls or TNG Hyatt Regency mauve plastic and carpet. Screw that stuff. They can do better, and they did. (Yes I saw Axanar. Don't care, this is better.)

I really liked Captain Lorca. He was my favorite character, so I'm sad to see he's dead. I suppose non-mirror Lorca could be alive (keep in mind I haven't seen S2), but that's a different character.

Also really like Admiral Cornwell. Nice to see at least one competent Admiral instead of the usual Trek "Badmirals".

The Bad:
Finale seemed too rushed and too contrived. L'Rell become the accepted unified leader of the Klingon Empire among 24 sects that hate each other...because she waved around a Starfleet tablet?

I am able to enjoy mirror universe episodes in TOS/DS9/ENT, but largely because they are quick and fun diversions. I sort of enjoyed it in Disco, but it was pretty bleak, not at all fun, and definitely too long. Making an entire act/arc/chapter out of it was too much for me--I would have preferred it to be a much shorter jaunt with the extra time given to make the finale seem more developed and less rushed.

There was so much prisoner torture that at one point I felt like I was watching a Star-Trek-themed season of "24". It seemed like there was more torture in just a few episodes of Disco than in all previous Trek combined. I think the show would have been better if they had cut that back quite a bit. On top of the torture they had to introduce not just one super-most-painful way to die, but two super-most-painful ways to die. Sheesh.

During the second Pahvan episode, someone on the Discovery bridge says that long range scanners detect a cloaked Klingon ship approaching Pahvo and identifies it as the Ship of The Dead. So... long range sensors can detect cloaked Klingon ships, their movement and direction, and even identify the exact ship? What??? This was so jarring to me that I actually thought I heard that wrong, so I rewound to verify. Yep, he said "cloaked". There is an ENORMOUS amount of canon showing us that cloaked ships are not detectable except under extraordinary circumstances which have to be explained. Yes, I know Michael altered the Pahvo signal specifically for breaking the cloak, but then the Pahvans altered it yet again to call forth the humans and Klingons for a get-together. The re-altered get-together-signal clearly does not detect cloaked vessels, because (A) When the Ship of the Dead appears, its cloak is effective, and (B) if the signal were working, then the Federation is good-to-go for detecting cloaked ships according to the original plan anyway, and thus wouldn't need the calculation formulas from Discovery.

So humans and vulcans have instant interstellar chat now? The advantages are too enormous to ignore. Every long-range exploratory ship should include a human or vulcan that's a bonded pair with someone back in the Federation. Surely Voyager, designed for deep space assignments, would have one. This is a pretty big break to canon. (Yes there are others like the Spore Drive, Holodeck, etc., but they've already been hashed over. I didn't see anyone mention this one yet.)

The Shocking:
I can't believe nobody said anything about this yet. Klingons have two penises???

If you don't know what I'm talking about, in the Orion colony on Q'onoS there is a scene with a Klingon peeing against the alley wall and there are two streams. Seeing this immediately made me think back to a much earlier scene where Voq-as-Ash is leaving L'Rell but trying to comfort her by saying that he "doesn't have enough organs for her anyway". This statement stood out to me at the time because it didn't make any sense to me. He doesn't have enough organs for her? Sure, I know Klingons have redundant internal organs for better combat suitability, but in the context of the somewhat intimate scene, it would be weird to mention that you didn't have enough livers or whatever. Well now I know what he really meant.

And before you say I'm just making something from nothing...I already had that exact thought. So I googled it, and found a production person on record saying that it's true and they did this purposefully. So there you go, it's canon.

Anyway, this fact really changes my view of Worf's relationships with Troi, Jadzia, and Ezri. YOWZA!

Misc:
I like Cadet Tilly, but I like Captain Killy waaaaaaaaaaay more. A psychiatrist might have things to say to me about that.

If you look at old conversations about DS9 back when it was airing, people were complaining that "this isn't Trek".

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post #1728 of 1966 Old 03-13-2019, 05:58 PM
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@Actionable Mango Season 2 has an even better captain, more Trek-like too. Season 2 is fantastic.
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post #1729 of 1966 Old 03-14-2019, 08:00 PM
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Outstanding stuff again. I love the production values of this show. Not sure if I love the topical "ooooooh, look how scary AI is" theme that seems inevitably around the corner, but the acting, and the show is top notch. I love the visuals on this show so much that it is actually distracting at times . Keep ‘em coming!
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post #1730 of 1966 Old 03-15-2019, 01:08 AM
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Great episode. I wish they kept the character around longer after making me care about her.
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post #1731 of 1966 Old 03-15-2019, 01:59 AM
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Yeah, the difference in the apparent level of technology has nothing to do with the Trek universe and everything to do with the limited technology of the 1960s. I don't think there is any reason to talk about it in the show, because it exists in the real world, not in the show's universe. As for the spore drive, since it relies on organisms, it seems pretty clear to me that Starfleet will ban it at some point before the end of the show, because it's harming the spore aliens, or whatever, and that will explain why the technology never appeared in any of the other shows.

The transition between these two seasons has been remarkable. During season 1 it felt like somebody had decided to create a new Trek series as a cash grab so they could have more brand recognition for their latest modern dystopian science fiction project. Season 2, especially with that "previously" segment that connected the current plot with the original pilot, makes Discovery feel like it's actually being run by true fans of the franchise now. The turnaround that is season 2 has been fantastic.
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post #1732 of 1966 Old 03-15-2019, 04:33 AM
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Yeah, the difference in the apparent level of technology has nothing to do with the Trek universe and everything to do with the limited technology of the 1960s. I don't think there is any reason to talk about it in the show, because it exists in the real world, not in the show's universe. As for the spore drive, since it relies on organisms, it seems pretty clear to me that Starfleet will ban it at some point before the end of the show, because it's harming the spore aliens, or whatever, and that will explain why the technology never appeared in any of the other shows.

The transition between these two seasons has been remarkable. During season 1 it felt like somebody had decided to create a new Trek series as a cash grab so they could have more brand recognition for their latest modern dystopian science fiction project. Season 2, especially with that "previously" segment that connected the current plot with the original pilot, makes Discovery feel like it's actually being run by true fans of the franchise now. The turnaround that is season 2 has been fantastic.
And wow...

Spoiler!
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post #1733 of 1966 Old 03-15-2019, 05:55 AM
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Forgive me but can someone remind me, did they address the issue that the technology in this show is so far advanced from the tech in the original series? I don't mean just the look of the special effects, but the use of holograms, sending what is on a thin sheet of plastic to a holographic display with the swipe of a hand, the items/weapons the former Emperor used, etc. etc. My wife keeps asking me and I don't recall if anything was ever addressed about that.
Midnight's Edge on youtube has an excellent 1/2 hour episode that goes into "canon" vs "prime." Disco is "prime" but not in the "canon" universe." I agree with their reasoning. This show and it's in-universe history is a different universe than the ToS, TNG, etc universe.

I am 2 episode behind, but if I recall, the canon universe, the only starship to go to Talos IV was the Enterprise. If Disco actually goes (or Spock and/or Pike), there, that breaks canon. The Talosians has no idea what a human looked like which is why the girl in the ToS episode is disfigured (they saved here, but didn't know how she should have looked, so there was deformities from their medical care). If this is addressed in the 2 recent episodes, never mind.

Enterprise also got things wrong and folks consider that to be in a different universe as a result. For example, in a TNG episode Picard tells the leader of a first-contact planet why the Federation has people observe a planet before making first-contact (Riker was found out to be an alien and Picard had to smooth things over). The reason he gave was their first time was with the Klingons and that resulted in a devastating war. Then Enterprise comes along and Archer becomes a pseudo hero on Qo'noS in a first-contact situation.

For the record, even though some things are "wrong" in Enterprise, I liked the show and would liked to have seen the 5th season - especially with the NX Refit looking like a great step towards the ToS Constitution class.

For me, the first season of Disco was not Trek. So many things just don't match up with canon or Roddenberry's vision of the Trek universe. I'll spare you my views of the snarky, mutinous convict. Season 2 they are attempting to retcon some of it with hit-and-miss results (for me) and I'm finding season 2 to be much better with the stories. Of the ones I have seen, the episode with the dying sphere organism IS Trek and in that frame, the best.

Just my 5 cents (inflation, you know).

John
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post #1734 of 1966 Old 03-16-2019, 08:35 AM
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This might be the best episode of the series imo, I actually felt the sadness...
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post #1735 of 1966 Old 03-16-2019, 08:40 AM
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But the problem with it, IMO, is that we never got to know Airiam at all until this ep, then she got spaced. She was basically one level above a red shirt.

This has been a really good season so far.
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post #1736 of 1966 Old 03-16-2019, 08:52 AM
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She's had a lot of screen time and was more than just another 'random bridge officer' granted never at this level, the actress did a great job. And (let me take a moment to confess my one nitpick) we didn't have to see so much of Michael's #$% stare
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post #1737 of 1966 Old 03-16-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by wpbpete View Post
This might be the best episode of the series imo, I actually felt the sadness...
When Michael finally had no choice but to open the airlock and eject Airiam into space, the angst and pain that she felt was palpable. Sonequa did a great job in portraying that. Hannah Cheesman, as Airiam, also was very good at showing her willingness to sacrifice herself rather than have to kill Michael. It was also wonderful to see what Airiam's life was before she was augmented. The video of her and her husband after eloping was a nice touch. This from a fan site: At some point before she became cybernetically augmented, Airiam eloped with a man named Stephen. However, Stephen was killed when the shuttle they were travelling in crashed on their return home. In the aftermath of the accident, Airiam received cybernetic augmentations.

One of Disco's strengths has been the individual scenes between any two characters. By and large they have been first rate with the actors nailing it.


The guest on this week's The Ready Room is Hannah Cheesman
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post #1738 of 1966 Old 03-16-2019, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Cal1981 View Post
When Michael finally had no choice but to open the airlock and eject Airiam into space, the angst and pain that she felt was palpable.
I think that was Cmdr. Nhan who actually spaced Airiam. She recovered enough of her breathing apparatus to crawl over to the airlock box, broke the glass and hit the Big Red Button after Michael froze up and couldn't do it.
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post #1739 of 1966 Old 03-17-2019, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
I think that was Cmdr. Nhan who actually spaced Airiam. She recovered enough of her breathing apparatus to crawl over to the airlock box, broke the glass and hit the Big Red Button after Michael froze up and couldn't do it.
You are correct.
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post #1740 of 1966 Old 03-17-2019, 06:55 AM
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I don't know, I prefer my star fleet officers being... less weepy. Especially ones who grew up on Vulcan.
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