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post #181 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 04:21 AM
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Outcome completely orchestrated by the producers. Ben finds yet another idol (shocking), then for the first time in 35 seasons they change the final tribal council to give him another chance to save himself. All the drama of that final immunity challenge ended up being meaningless. The final four TCs after Ben's complete lack of a social game left him with no alliances: idol, idol, idol, rule change.

I hope the money helps his family and maybe helps him help others. But if CBS was so enamored of him and his story they would have been better served letting the game play out naturally and finding some "fan vote" way to give him $100,000 or something and then donating $500,000 to a charity or two that focuses on helping veterans with PTSD and/or re-acclimating to civilian life after returning from combat.
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post #182 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by djbrown13 View Post
Outcome completely orchestrated by the producers. Ben finds yet another idol (shocking), then for the first time in 35 seasons they change the final tribal council to give him another chance to save himself. All the drama of that final immunity challenge ended up being meaningless. The final four TCs after Ben's complete lack of a social game left him with no alliances: idol, idol, idol, rule change.

I hope the money helps his family and maybe helps him help others. But if CBS was so enamored of him and his story they would have been better served letting the game play out naturally and finding some "fan vote" way to give him $100,000 or something and then donating $500,000 to a charity or two that focuses on helping veterans with PTSD and/or re-acclimating to civilian life after returning from combat.
Jeff said this "twist" is how every season would be from now on. So it wasn't used to save Ben, they changed up this season, like they always do. Even the final tribal is now done differently.


Devon was supposed to win the fire, he stated he has made fire every day. It was his choice NOT to practice, he could have kept practicing. The flint broke, it was still usable, just in different form. It was his decision to lay on the beach instead. Perhaps if he would have practiced he would have gotten it.


How could this be orchestrated for Ben to win? It was their tribes fault, every time. The producers did not lead Ben to his idols. The entire tribe decided to lay at camp and do nothing when he found one. If they would have followed him, took turns and stayed with him, NO idol, problem solved. When he gets back every one decides to stay at camp while he leaves. He is gone for a while and they only comment they wonder where he is. No one stayed with him. If they had, no idol. If they had looked, they could have found it. They decided to go to sleep, Ben decided to stay up all night and look. It was their tribes fault and in no way was it handed to Ben. Chrissy even admitted it was a huge mistake on their tribe to always let him go off on his own.
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post #183 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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The skeptic in me wonders exactly when they decided to implement this final twist. Would they have used it if it wasn't to save Ben? If I were Devon, Chrissy or Ryan, I'd probably be pretty annoyed. One of them had this won until the producers decided to give the game to Ben (or at least make it a 50/50 shot for Ben).
I hate to say it, but the "twist" just felt like a last minute add on .. even Jeff tried to defend it by stating it would be back next season .. I believe Ben earned the win, I've said if he makes it to final Tribal, he'd win .. yet, traditionally, the winner of Final Immunity essentially gets to select who sits with them at Final Tribal ..

As well, the change up in how the Jury grills the three .. ?? Fairly bland, to me .. and Jeff with his constant Cheerleading at the Reunion ..

Lastly, I don't know why they even bother bringing back the whole cast to the Reunion show .. there is now limited, if any, discussion ..
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post #184 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 07:04 AM
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Best Survivor finale in a long time. Ben's upside down U had us screaming at home. Thought for sure that was his last chance and that he blew it for himself. Huge mistake on Devon not to practice, they tell him what to do and he decides to lay on the beach instead and try to be calm. We also really liked the new tribal council at the end. Instead of every person asking their questions or complaining, they focused on the core of the show, Outwit, Outplay, Outlast. I also like the new ending, the last two fight it out in fire making, no more final three being locked in during the early stages with alliances. All in all, great changes to a great season. These last few episodes were really good. Congrats to Ben.
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post #185 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 07:08 AM
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Lastly, I don't know why they even bother bringing back the whole cast to the Reunion show .. there is now limited, if any, discussion ..
I was hoping that one of these years, they would expand on the time given to the reunion show. At least give each contestant a chance to say something. Really disappointing, for me at least.
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post #186 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I was hoping that one of these years, they would expand on the time given to the reunion show. At least give each contestant a chance to say something. Really disappointing, for me at least.
Yes, well .. there was a time when Jeff would get some interaction from the Cast .. maybe not everyone, but at least a good portion .. now, they seem to just sit there ..
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post #187 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 07:51 AM
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I think this is the first time the reunion didn't talk to any of the people that were gone early. It seemed more like a lets tell the Ben story to shed some light on Marines and military people on what they go through. Not that its a bad thing, I am on the fence about the twist thing, it does seem like they just kept giving him chances, but then again, making fire gives Devon the same chance. I agree with what Jeff said about the season being a slow burn, it REALLY was for a long time, but did finish well.
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post #188 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Bottom Line, for me :: Ben fought hard, never gave up and earned it .. Chrissy fought hard, too and closed with a good argument .. the next thing I write is no slam on Ben, I was deployed for a year in Vietnam in the late 1960's so I can say this because I know full well what he goes thru ..

If Ben did not have the Veteran Story in play and had not choked up with it at Final, I don't know how the votes would have been .. but I do know his chance of winning would have been less ..

That said, I am very much happy that our Vets now get the respect and Honor that they deserve ..
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post #189 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 08:10 AM
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Bottom Line, for me :: Ben fought hard, never gave up and earned it .. Chrissy fought hard, too and closed with a good argument .. the next thing I write is no slam on Ben, I was deployed for a year in Vietnam in the late 1960's so I can say this because I know full well what he goes thru ..

If Ben did not have the Veteran Story in play and had not choked up with it at Final, I don't know how the votes would have been .. but I do know his chance of winning would have been less ..

That said, I am very much happy that our Vets now get the respect and Honor that they deserve ..

I was rooting for Ben big time last night. It has nothing to do with him being a vet, I respected his game play and he just owned it. When I saw Ryan's early revealed vote, I knew that was the only one he was going to get, I wish they wouldn't do those things. I think the majority this time did vote on pure game play, with a tad and very tiny amount of heart involved. I am glad it didn't have a pure hurt clam vote like has happened in the past.

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post #190 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 08:27 AM
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Jeff said this "twist" is how every season would be from now on. So it wasn't used to save Ben, they changed up this season, like they always do. Even the final tribal is now done differently.


Devon was supposed to win the fire, he stated he has made fire every day. It was his choice NOT to practice, he could have kept practicing. The flint broke, it was still usable, just in different form. It was his decision to lay on the beach instead. Perhaps if he would have practiced he would have gotten it.


How could this be orchestrated for Ben to win? It was their tribes fault, every time. The producers did not lead Ben to his idols. The entire tribe decided to lay at camp and do nothing when he found one. If they would have followed him, took turns and stayed with him, NO idol, problem solved. When he gets back every one decides to stay at camp while he leaves. He is gone for a while and they only comment they wonder where he is. No one stayed with him. If they had, no idol. If they had looked, they could have found it. They decided to go to sleep, Ben decided to stay up all night and look. It was their tribes fault and in no way was it handed to Ben. Chrissy even admitted it was a huge mistake on their tribe to always let him go off on his own.

It was exaggerated on the show a couple times that perhaps the others should have followed Ben around as he looked for an idol instead of sleeping. Now you are also. Maybe that's why Ben couldn't win a challenge. Too tired. Imagine they did and Ben spots the idol. The three of them weight combined couldn't shove Ben out of the way to 'steal' it from him. What could they have possibly done especially if they were taking turns? He could have also sighted the clue 'DIG HERE' (how convenient was that) and continued walking past it, the others unaware, and returned later when there was a changing of the guard or something.


As for the new twist, Jeff could have any number of 'twists' to pull out of the hat to fit any situation. I think that gal got short changed. She worked hard excelling at challenges, tact and socially so deserved to win on those merits. I get the whole 12 years ago 'hero' thing though and he had his merits too.


When Chrissy read the advantage that came with her last idol win, I thought a better choice might have been to bring Ben with her on a free pass and let the other two battle out the fire challenge. This way the jury could contemplate deeper about Ben earning his way to the final 3 by robbing him a chance at fire to boost his ability and willpower portrait. It would have given confidence points to Chrissy imo had I been on the jury. Little disappointed with the 'twist'. Leaves too much room for manipulation conspiracies. Like a super bowl won on a technicality.

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post #191 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 08:31 AM
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I felt Chrissy should have won, ( Ben a close 2nd), & played the best start to finish, well rounded game ...
I really wonder , since she lost by 1 vote, who were on the fence & may have changed their mind "last minute" ...
Devon showed his air-head status by not only lying on the beach at flint time, , but by giving the only vote to "hey man Ryan bro dude" ....
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post #192 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 08:40 AM
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Blame cynicism, but Jeff saying that the final twist would be used in future seasons was necessary, if only to be used as a defense against the accusations of it being invented to help Ben. In essence a similar reason as to why the 'Tuck Rule' wasn't overturned immediately following that season people claimed it was used to hand the Patriots the game. The fact is Ben had zero chance to win the game without the change. Not that was completely undeserving, far from it, but it smells. Obviously the producers can't really control who wins a challenge, but they certainly have the ability to give certain contestants extra chances and/or advantages.

And it's really sad they called the twist a "secret advantage". I hope no one ever gives me an "advantage" that screws me out of a large amount of money. I was hoping it would be "cancel one jury member's vote before they are read", leaving the person trying to figure out who is voting against them.

Presumably the next season has already been filmed, so the fire building will again be a surprise to the players. But in subsequent seasons? Once you make the final four you should be much more concerned with your ability to make fire than to win immunity or lock down your alliances. Kind of kills the main objectives of the game.
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post #193 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I was rooting for Ben big time last night. It has nothing to do with him being a vet, I respected his game play and he just owned it. When I saw Ryan's early revealed vote, I knew that was the only one he was going to get, I wish they wouldn't do those things. I think the majority this time did vote on pure game play, with a tad and very tiny amount of heart involved. I am glad it didn't have a pure hurt clam vote like has happened in the past.
I'm not trying to imply Ben won because of his backstory .. I am simply saying that his backstory did pull some heart strings at Jury ..

He played a good game .. I don't think it was the greatest game in Survivor History, though .. IMO, technically, Chrissy played a better overall Game ..

I've said for some time now that if Ben made final, he would win ..

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post #194 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 09:11 AM
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I felt Chrissy should have won, ( Ben a close 2nd), & played the best start to finish, well rounded game ...
I really wonder , since she lost by 1 vote, who were on the fence & may have changed their mind "last minute" ...
Devon showed his air-head status by not only lying on the beach at flint time, , but by giving the only vote to "hey man Ryan bro dude" ....

One vote? I think it was 2 Chrissy, 5 Ben and 1 Ryan.
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post #195 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 09:13 AM
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I'm not trying to imply Ben won because of his backstory .. I am simply saying that his backstory did pull some heart strings at Jury .. it was a tight vote ..

He played a good game .. I don't think it was the greatest game in Survivor History, though .. IMO, technically, Chrissy played a better overall Game ..

I've said for some time now that if Ben made final, he would win ..


We are on the same page for the most part, I said there was some minor heart used in the voting. Lauren stating something about other vets, showed that. Even players during the game said if Ben made it he would win.

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One vote? I think it was 2 Chrissy, 5 Ben and 1 Ryan.

The remaining votes were not read since enough were achieved. We have no idea what the remaining votes were and you can 'think' all you want.

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post #197 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 09:23 AM
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One vote? I think it was 2 Chrissy, 5 Ben and 1 Ryan.
I stand corrected, don't know why I thought it came down to 1 vote....
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post #198 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 09:26 AM
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The remaining votes were not read since enough were achieved. We have no idea what the remaining votes were and you can 'think' all you want.


8 jurors, the vote was 5-2-1 like I stated.

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post #199 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 09:30 AM
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I notice 5-2-1 is what the Wikipedia page is saying ....
People and other Entertainment recap sites seem to be reporting the final win tally as 4-2-1 ( although that is 7 votes & doesn't make sense..)
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post #200 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 09:32 AM
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I notice 5-2-1 is what the Wikipedia page is saying ....
People and other Entertainment recap sites seem to be reporting the final win tally as 4-2-1 ( although that is 7 votes & doesn't make sense..)
I saw the same thing, how the heck did they get 4-2-1 with 8 jurors, heh.

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post #201 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 09:52 AM
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I saw the same thing, how the heck did they get 4-2-1 with 8 jurors, heh.
Jeff only showed 7 votes.
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post #202 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 10:04 AM
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Jeff only showed 7 votes.

I must be losing it, I thought after they were tied at 2-2, they showed 3 votes for Ben.

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post #203 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 10:06 AM
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The internet is screaming rigged, saying former players like Parv are also saying it.

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1st vote Ben.
2nd vote Ryan.
3rd vote Chrissy.
4th vote Chrissy.
5th vote Ben.
6th vote Ben.
7th vote Ben.


4-2-1 We don't know the 8th vote and it doesn't matter but it would have had 1 of the Ben votes went to Chrissy.

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post #205 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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The internet is screaming rigged, saying former players like Parv are also saying it.
Nothing like whipping up a little controversy in order to gain some viewer interest in future seasons ..
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post #206 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 10:30 AM
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I would not be shocked if later we find that production massages events, or adds new 'twists' on the fly to achieve a more exciting, or desirable outcome.

Maybe Devon's kindling ropes were kept in a damp box?
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post #207 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 10:45 AM
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1st vote Ben.
2nd vote Ryan.
3rd vote Chrissy.
4th vote Chrissy.
5th vote Ben.
6th vote Ben.
7th vote Ben.


4-2-1 We don't know the 8th vote and it doesn't matter but it would have had 1 of the Ben votes went to Chrissy.

I just watched it again and you are correct, it was strange when Jeff said 1 vote left when there should have been 2. Maybe the 8th was Laurens vote they showed prior to being back in LA, when she made the comment about something to do with other vets.

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post #208 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 10:53 AM
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This is according to Wikipedia

Votes 5–2–1
Juror Vote
Devon- Ryan
Mike - Chrissy
Ashley - Chrissy
Lauren - Ben
Joe - Ben
JP - Ben
Cole - Ben
Desi - Ben
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post #209 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 10:56 AM
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Giddy-up, we will have Survivor and The Amazing Race on the same night in Feb. TAR starts Jan 3rd, Survivor Feb 28th

RIP John, my best friend. Oct 17th 1966 - Nov 13th 2010

RIP Victor, my dad, June 26th 1927 - April 13th 2011
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post #210 of 231 Old 12-21-2017, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
It was exaggerated on the show a couple times that perhaps the others should have followed Ben around as he looked for an idol instead of sleeping. Now you are also. Maybe that's why Ben couldn't win a challenge. Too tired. Imagine they did and Ben spots the idol. The three of them weight combined couldn't shove Ben out of the way to 'steal' it from him. What could they have possibly done especially if they were taking turns? He could have also sighted the clue 'DIG HERE' (how convenient was that) and continued walking past it, the others unaware, and returned later when there was a changing of the guard or something.
Your looking at it wrong, it wasn't just that they should follow him (they should have any that is their fault, not a conspiracy that the show did it for Ben), they also should have been out looking for it themselves. One follows, 3 go in separate directions and look (or when it was 1 follow, 2 go look, etc.). Odds are in their favor they would find it before Ben and not have to "push" him out of the way. They would have multiple people out there looking to Ben's single person. Instead the entire tribe went to sleep/stayed at camp That is completely their fault and they completely had the opportunity and overwhelming advantage to find it first and get him out, they, and they alone chose not to, even if they show did try to give it to Ben, they had the chance and odds to find it first and simply chose not to and sleep/stay at camp. They had multiple chances to do this after multiple tribal councils and decided every time not to.
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