Altered Carbon- Netflix original - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 392 Old 02-03-2018, 01:48 PM
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I couldn't resist watching the first episode last night (on a 10-year-old 32" LCD no less - don't ask) even though I had planned to wait until I finished the book (I'm only on p.75). It's already apparent that like The Expanse series, Altered Carbon will be worth "double-dipping," as there are things I liked more about the book and things I liked more about the TV show. Speaking of double-dipping, I'll definitely be rewatching this first episode on my living room plasma at some point.lol
How much does the NetFlix version follow the book storyline ?

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post #62 of 392 Old 02-03-2018, 02:00 PM
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How much does the NetFlix version follow the book storyline ?
So far (just one episode vs. 75 pages) the overall story arc is identical but some of the details vary. The book is told in first-person, so you hear all of Kovac's inner dialogue as he gets used to his new sleeve and the new world he finds himself in, and tries to figure out what's going on with Bancroft. In the show, you get mostly blank stares from Kinnamon, flashbacks, and boobs. The hotel scene plays out much bigger in the filmed version, though I preferred how in the book it was a Jimi Hendrix-themed hotel, but I guess the show couldn't get the license to use the music or an AI Jimi.
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post #63 of 392 Old 02-03-2018, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I love when shows/books/movies create their own language or slang...in AC terms like meths, sleeves, stacks, dippers etc...really immerses you into this world
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post #64 of 392 Old 02-03-2018, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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So far (just one episode vs. 75 pages) the overall story arc is identical but some of the details vary. The book is told in first-person, so you hear all of Kovac's inner dialogue as he gets used to his new sleeve and the new world he finds himself in, and tries to figure out what's going on with Bancroft. In the show, you get mostly blank stares from Kinnamon, flashbacks, and boobs. The hotel scene plays out much bigger in the filmed version, though I preferred how in the book it was a Jimi Hendrix-themed hotel, but I guess the show couldn't get the license to use the music or an AI Jimi.

I also read that another major change from the books involves the woman who was with Kovacs in the opening scene when he was killed...in the book her stack is not destroyed
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post #65 of 392 Old 02-03-2018, 02:37 PM
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I also read that another major change from the books involves the woman who was with Kovacs in the opening scene when he was killed...in the book her stack is not destroyed
I noticed that too, but wasn't sure (after seeing what happened in the show) if Kovacs just hadn't found out yet in the book. He didn't get the same kind of debrief in the books that he does in the TV show when he first wakes up. He just gets the standard orientation all the new sleeves get along with a letter from Bancroft.
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post #66 of 392 Old 02-03-2018, 02:42 PM
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So far (just one episode vs. 75 pages) the overall story arc is identical but some of the details vary. The book is told in first-person, so you hear all of Kovac's inner dialogue as he gets used to his new sleeve and the new world he finds himself in, and tries to figure out what's going on with Bancroft. In the show, you get mostly blank stares from Kinnamon, flashbacks, and boobs. The hotel scene plays out much bigger in the filmed version, though I preferred how in the book it was a Jimi Hendrix-themed hotel, but I guess the show couldn't get the license to use the music or an AI Jimi.
An AI Jimi would have been way cool, with "Hey Joe" playing in the background for the lobby shootout.
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post #67 of 392 Old 02-03-2018, 07:26 PM
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After the first two episodes streamed to a UHD display, I'm in, and probably willl finish season one before Monday. As with The Expanse, I prefer the video story version to the book version.

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post #68 of 392 Old 02-03-2018, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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great seeing sci-fi vets Tahmoh Penikett-- of Battlestar Galactica and Dollhouse fame and Dichen Lachman (Dollhouse) in this...
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post #69 of 392 Old 02-03-2018, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm really enjoying this series a lot...I just finished watching Episode 5 and wow what a fantastic ending...
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post #70 of 392 Old 02-04-2018, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Zookster View Post
So far (just one episode vs. 75 pages) the overall story arc is identical but some of the details vary. The book is told in first-person, so you hear all of Kovac's inner dialogue as he gets used to his new sleeve and the new world he finds himself in, and tries to figure out what's going on with Bancroft. In the show, you get mostly blank stares from Kinnamon, flashbacks, and boobs. The hotel scene plays out much bigger in the filmed version, though I preferred how in the book it was a Jimi Hendrix-themed hotel, but I guess the show couldn't get the license to use the music or an AI Jimi.
I'm an avid SciFi fan, LOTS of novels on my tablet. Was wondering if reading AC would be worth it and I think it might just to know whats on Kovac's mind. Except for boobs that is (we know what's on his fresh out of the tank mind then LOL).

I do think the visuals raise the bar for any made for TV production. This is just eye popping spectacular on my 65" OLED.

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post #71 of 392 Old 02-04-2018, 11:21 AM
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post #72 of 392 Old 02-04-2018, 11:28 AM
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Bad ass show!
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post #73 of 392 Old 02-04-2018, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't understand the lukewarm reviews this show is getting from critics...I must be watching a different show
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post #74 of 392 Old 02-04-2018, 11:48 AM
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Two episodes in the visuals are fantastic and it looks gorgeous in Dolby Vision. Second episode improved on the first but way too much gratuitous nudity, do we really need to see Bancroft's dong? He's rich enough to clone a horse's if he wanted to and same for the females' full frontal. It's also hard to concentrate on the dialog with boobs right in your face lol.
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post #75 of 392 Old 02-04-2018, 01:09 PM
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I caught the first episode and it's probably the last (for me). There isn't a character I give a hoot about and the story itself isn't interesting or unique enough to make it worthwhile.

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post #76 of 392 Old 02-04-2018, 03:31 PM
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OK, I'm done with Altered Carbon, having just finished S1E10. The production standards are high, the episodes are well made, and they did all of the material in the book in the 10 S1 episodes.

I'm hoping that there will be two more seasons, each based on another of the three total Takeshi Kovacs novels. Altered Carbon was published in 2002, the sequel Broken Angels in 2003, and the final novel Woken Furies in 2005.

Note that the three books are different SF genres. As several people have remarked in this thread, Altered Carbon is a Neo Noir thriller in the Dystopian style of Blade Runner. Broken Angels is military SF with some elements of Space Opera, and is about Corporate warfare and the space-faring "Elders" (the fossil displayed at the party in Altered Carbon). The final novel (Morgan has said the TK novels are done) Woken Furies is an adventure tale with elements of Space Opera, set on Kovacs' home planet called Harlan's World, again concerns the alien race "The Elders" (which are called "the Martians" in the books, because their artifacts were discovered on Mars).
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post #77 of 392 Old 02-04-2018, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Note that the three books are different SF genres. As several people have remarked in this thread, Altered Carbon is a Neo Noir thriller in the Dystopian style of Blade Runner. Broken Angels is military SF with some elements of Space Opera, and is about Corporate warfare and the space-faring "Elders" (the fossil displayed at the party in Altered Carbon). The final novel (Morgan has said the TK novels are done) Woken Furies is an adventure tale with elements of Space Opera, set on Kovacs' home planet called Harlan's World, again concerns the alien race "The Elders" (which are called "the Martians" in the books, because their artifacts were discovered on Mars).

I haven't read the books but going by your description the later books don't sound as interesting as Altered Carbon...sounds more like an extended universe story versus a continuation of the story and characters from AC
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post #78 of 392 Old 02-04-2018, 10:15 PM
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I haven't read the books but going by your description the later books don't sound as interesting as Altered Carbon...sounds more like an extended universe story versus a continuation of the story and characters from AC
Yes, keep in mind that the central unifying theme is the "sleeves" and the cyber "stacks" that animate them with stored minds. The continuing characters are TK and his Envoy mentor Quell. The latter two books have less plot and more action. However there is plenty of material for another season, even if they use both books worth of plot.

As for my estimation of quality, the last book is the best, followed by Altered Carbon. Morgan has written a standalone novel I'm fond of set on the same Dystopian Earth, called Market Forces, where Corporations back countries at war and share in the spoils. Meanwhile advancement up the corporate ladder is via combat with armed and armored automobiles.... Also very good is the novel Thirteen, the Thirteens are geneticly enhanced soldiers, deemed too dangerous for Earth and exiled to Mars.
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post #79 of 392 Old 02-05-2018, 08:24 AM
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I don't understand the lukewarm reviews this show is getting from critics...I must be watching a different show
Looks like the folks at Forbes get it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai.../#4931fed46963
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Looks like the folks at Forbes get it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai.../#4931fed46963
The Time magazine review cited in this article is really bizarre. Now shows are being criticized for not being progressive enough? Even when they have a multiracial cast (including nonwhite actors for characters that were white in the original source material) in non-stereotyped roles? This show even addresses transgender issues with the concept of "cross-sleeving," which was rather progressive in 2002 when the book was published. As far as the bruised and battered damsels in distress, yes, there are plenty of those. But this story is what it is: a Caucasian mercenary detective and a Latina police lieutenant in a dystopian future where human bodies (especially female) are even more commodities (quite literally) than they are in our present world.
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post #81 of 392 Old 02-05-2018, 10:43 AM
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I finished the series over the weekend, and I loved it

Not being familiar with the source material, I did find it a little difficult to follow all the plot details, especially in the beginning - you definitely need to keep your thinking cap on.
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post #82 of 392 Old 02-05-2018, 11:35 AM
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The Time magazine review cited in this article is really bizarre. Now shows are being criticized for not being progressive enough? Even when they have a multiracial cast (including nonwhite actors for characters that were white in the original source material) in non-stereotyped roles? This show even addresses transgender issues with the concept of "cross-sleeving," which was rather progressive in 2002 when the book was published. As far as the bruised and battered damsels in distress, yes, there are plenty of those. But this story is what it is: a Caucasian mercenary detective and a Latina police lieutenant in a dystopian future where human bodies (especially female) are even more commodities (quite literally) than they are in our present world.
Various reviews I've read are also critical of the visuals which some say "are borrowed from Blade Runner". I think this misses the whole point in so far as there rarely have been such lush, rich and well developed visuals FOR A TV PRODUCTION ! Whatever the critics are looking for would seem to be vastly different than AC's actual audience. Tomatoes show critics at 61% and Audience score is 91%. Somethings amis here.

Perhaps the vast majority of these 'critics' are simply not SciFi fans nor fans of storytelling that for the most part tracks with a novel's storyline. After all the novel won the Phillip K Dick award for best SciFi novel back when it was released.

SMH
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post #83 of 392 Old 02-05-2018, 01:35 PM
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Quite simply, I believe that the critical reviewers did not understand the AC plotlines, and were overly critical because of this. Those of us who loved the AC series seem to be primarily those already familiar with the book version. This is in fact a valid criticism, perhaps the story cannot quite stand on it's own as a TV series.

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post #84 of 392 Old 02-05-2018, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quite simply, I believe that the critical reviewers did not understand the AC plotlines, and were overly critical because of this. Those of us who loved the AC series seem to be primarily those already familiar with the book version. This is in fact a valid criticism, perhaps the story cannot quite stand on it's own as a TV series.

I haven't read the books and I love the series...I think people who like smart shows which require the viewer to use their brains will love this- aka fans of Game of Thrones, Westworld, The Expanse, Netflix' Dark etc
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post #85 of 392 Old 02-06-2018, 05:43 AM
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I enjoyed the series, like most here. I thought it looked great and had a great cast. Still not sure about the sister though and her motivation for all her evil, seemed very thin. Overall though I thought it was good, not great. I would enjoy another season.
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post #86 of 392 Old 02-06-2018, 04:48 PM
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The Time magazine review cited in this article is really bizarre. Now shows are being criticized for not being progressive enough? Even when they have a multiracial cast (including nonwhite actors for characters that were white in the original source material) in non-stereotyped roles? This show even addresses transgender issues with the concept of "cross-sleeving," which was rather progressive in 2002 when the book was published. As far as the bruised and battered damsels in distress, yes, there are plenty of those. But this story is what it is: a Caucasian mercenary detective and a Latina police lieutenant in a dystopian future where human bodies (especially female) are even more commodities (quite literally) than they are in our present world.

I stopped paying attention to those virtue signaling SJWs long time ago, I Used to subscribe to EW in print and quickly their review sections became my list favorite one because of their relentless political and personal hang ups just ruined everything.
I'm on the third episode now and like what I see so far....
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post #87 of 392 Old 02-06-2018, 05:25 PM
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I stopped paying attention to those virtue signaling SJWs long time ago, I Used to subscribe to EW in print and quickly their review sections became my list favorite one because of their relentless political and personal hang ups just ruined everything....
Truth!
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post #88 of 392 Old 02-07-2018, 09:50 AM
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Various reviews I've read are also critical of the visuals which some say "are borrowed from Blade Runner". I think this misses the whole point in so far as there rarely have been such lush, rich and well developed visuals FOR A TV PRODUCTION ! Whatever the critics are looking for would seem to be vastly different than AC's actual audience. Tomatoes show critics at 61% and Audience score is 91%. Somethings amis here.

Perhaps the vast majority of these 'critics' are simply not SciFi fans nor fans of storytelling that for the most part tracks with a novel's storyline. After all the novel won the Phillip K Dick award for best SciFi novel back when it was released.

SMH
When your job is to watch a lot of movies and a lot of TV shows, you quickly grow tired of watching things that are blatantly derivative of other things. That's a big problem in today's media environment, where seemingly everything is a reboot or a ripoff of something else.

I liked Altered Carbon, but didn't love it. It's basically just Blade Runner meets Ghost in the Shell, with some film noir stuff thrown on top. Despite the high production values, it doesn't have many original ideas. The murder mystery plot is needlessly confusing and ultimately not all that meaningful or interesting. The revelation of the killer's identity is almost an afterthought. And because the story is set in a world where the concept of death is irrelevant, the stakes for the hero are pretty low. The last episode really peters out to the conclusion.

I enjoyed the season and will watch again if it gets another one, but I rated it a B.
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post #89 of 392 Old 02-07-2018, 10:48 AM
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I'm two episodes in and admit to a growing sense of disappointment. I have no idea what's going on, or why. The police detective following Kovacs seems more like a stalker and is written paper-thin, complete with a stereotypically supportive-but-cautious opposite-sex partner. Their dialog is cringe-worthy. Bancroft's wife is a standard-issue vixen and has already seduced Kovacs. I'm calling it right now -- she's the killer.

This may be indeed be a case where the written novel is just too difficult to adapt. But it is visually spectacular and clearly they spent some serious $, so there's that.
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post #90 of 392 Old 02-07-2018, 10:53 AM
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I liked Altered Carbon, but didn't love it. It's basically just Blade Runner meets Ghost in the Shell, with some film noir stuff thrown on top. Despite the high production values, it doesn't have many original ideas. The murder mystery plot is needlessly confusing and ultimately not all that meaningful or interesting. The revelation of the killer's identity is almost an afterthought. And because the story is set in a world where the concept of death is irrelevant, the stakes for the hero are pretty low. The last episode really peters out to the conclusion.

I enjoyed the season and will watch again if it gets another one, but I rated it a B.
I came to the same conclusion after finishing the series yesterday. It was a good series, had a few moments where it was great, but the mystery didn't come together as well as I had hoped. I did find the fight choreography to be very good as I love the gunplay mixed in with sword fights.

It's the nicest looking show I've seen on Netflix for sure.
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