Project Blue Book on History by Robert Zemeckis - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 251 Old 01-21-2019, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Steinkuller View Post
You are correct! My apologies.
The link at #43 is not obvious, which is probably why I missed it. Maybe it was the browser I was using.:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=ZHYUNMvtarI
Not a problem. I usually embed a link within a word and sometimes it may not be as apparent. It defaults to blue so I should probably use red or something brighter so it's more noticeable.
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post #62 of 251 Old 01-21-2019, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
Really, really smart guy Marshall Savage says much the same thing in his seminal 1992 work, "The Millennial Foundation". Working from an assumption among some proto-biologists that it would take a minimum of 600 building-block amino-acid type molecules interacting randomly in the primordial soup to finally, by sheer chance, stumble upon the right combination to become self-replicating, let alone surviving long enough to keep self-replicating and have a built in error process that would allow for mutations and thus evolution, the factorial number that comes to is greater than all the stars currently thought to be in the known universe. So, from just a pure mathematical probability standpoint, we may indeed be something really special. It's basically an impossibility, except here we are to prove it happened. At least once.

Personally, I'm more optimistic. I think life exists elsewhere, maybe even on some of the moons of our gas giant planets where we figure liquid water exists below the surface. But intelligent life, capable of becoming a space-faring race? That I'm a bit more skeptical of.

But, like Fox Mulder, I want to believe.

As admittedly glum as my posts on the subject sound, I too WANT to believe.
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post #63 of 251 Old 01-21-2019, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Given that the universe is infinite, to think we are the only intelligent species is the height of hubris. Although, given how people in this country generally think (or more appropriately, don't think), that opinion being the prevailing one is not surprising.
First of all, I don't think we're all that intelligent. Second, hubris doesn't come into it when we're talking about the numbers and the odds. I think it's likely that there's intelligent life somewhere. What I don't think likely is that they would have even a tiny interest in us. I also don't think there's any way to solve the time/space hurdle no matter what the "intelligence" is.

"given how people in this country generally think (or more appropriately, don't think)" Exactly. What would some massively advanced race care about our culture? And I mean culture, as in petri dish. That's what we would look like to a race capable of what it takes to get here.

What a colossal waste of resources if somehow they did.
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post #64 of 251 Old 01-21-2019, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Tack View Post
What would some massively advanced race care about our culture? And I mean culture, as in petri dish.
Some theorize we are the rat in a maze. IOW, we are the experiment.
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post #65 of 251 Old 01-21-2019, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
Really, really smart guy Marshall Savage says much the same thing in his seminal 1992 work, "The Millennial Foundation". Working from an assumption among some proto-biologists that it would take a minimum of 600 building-block amino-acid type molecules interacting randomly in the primordial soup to finally, by sheer chance, stumble upon the right combination to become self-replicating, let alone surviving long enough to keep self-replicating and have a built in error process that would allow for mutations and thus evolution, the factorial number that comes to is greater than all the stars currently thought to be in the known universe. So, from just a pure mathematical probability standpoint, we may indeed be something really special. It's basically an impossibility, except here we are to prove it happened. At least once.

Personally, I'm more optimistic. I think life exists elsewhere, maybe even on some of the moons of our gas giant planets where we figure liquid water exists below the surface. But intelligent life, capable of becoming a space-faring race? That I'm a bit more skeptical of.

But, like Fox Mulder, I want to believe.
Yea, me too. We need to keep looking.
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post #66 of 251 Old 01-22-2019, 01:15 AM
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Out of respect for the late Stephen Hawking, I will not post a direct link (not allowed to post article). Do a search for Space and Time Warps by Hawking. It is a very good read.
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post #67 of 251 Old 01-22-2019, 04:53 AM
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Whatever! I thought he was funny on "Big Bang Theory" I'm actually more interested in Dr. Eric W. Davis (do a Search!) ...lol

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post #68 of 251 Old 01-22-2019, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post
First of all, I don't think we're all that intelligent. Second, hubris doesn't come into it when we're talking about the numbers and the odds. I think it's likely that there's intelligent life somewhere. What I don't think likely is that they would have even a tiny interest in us. I also don't think there's any way to solve the time/space hurdle no matter what the "intelligence" is.

"given how people in this country generally think (or more appropriately, don't think)" Exactly. What would some massively advanced race care about our culture? And I mean culture, as in petri dish. That's what we would look like to a race capable of what it takes to get here.

What a colossal waste of resources if somehow they did.
This is a beautiful world after all, " this little blue dot" and it may capture any eye that has the power to see. If some alien race has the tech to travel across immense space, whose to say how big a deal it would be for them to hop over here and have a look see. Besides the ones that come over here and supposedly abduct Us, the rest probably all adhere to the Prime Directive, remain hidden and leave no artifacts behind to alter the natural progression, isn't that it? I believe as you, that they have nothing to learn from humans, so they may walk amongst us and check out the scenery, visit the vast oceans, deserts, walk through giant Redwood forests etc...
Here is a bit of a tale on how the Pleiadians supposedly get here, easy for them it seems. Read about them when I was a kid.
http://www.meiersaken.info/Spacecrafts.html
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post #69 of 251 Old 01-22-2019, 07:55 AM
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^^^ Well. I guess that settles it!
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post #70 of 251 Old 01-22-2019, 11:08 AM
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Guys this discussion has been so enlightening. Can anyone point me to the threads on Bigfoot, Ghosts, Nessie, Witches/Magic and Possessions?

Also, do U.F.O. sightings increase based on the lunar cycle? I can say for a fact after dealing with public "complaints" for 29 years that the full moon greatly increased the volume of "interesting" complaints...stories...observations. Amazing how many people used to ask if the X-files were real before launching into some strange tale. Hint: Aluminum or Aluminium (for our British members) or tin (for older folks who don't it became obsolete decades ago) foil hats are great for blocking a great many things to include but not limited to Alien mind control.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...eap-build.html
Epson HC3800/HC2000; Screen - 151.5" 16:9/TV or 143.5" 2.35:1/HT at a seating distance of 12-15 feet; Yamaha RXV675 for 7.4; Speakers - Infinity Primus; Subs - 3 Polk PSW10s, 1 BIC F12; Headphones - 5 JVC wireless; Sony 4K Blu-ray player/six pairs 3D glasses.
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post #71 of 251 Old 01-22-2019, 11:51 AM
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I think it's statistical certainly that life exist outside of this little planet. It's also not hard to imagine that civilizations could that are thousands of year older than us have figured out how to traverse the speed of light. It took what, 60 years to go from the first flight to landing on the moon. Imagine our technology a thousand years from now. Have they visited us, that's a different matter entirely. Even if they have, the chances it was in the last 60 years are remote. It's only been a few decades that we have sent out any signals. Those signals would take hundreds of years for another civilization to detect them.
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post #72 of 251 Old 01-22-2019, 12:48 PM
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The Oxford study...light reading

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1806.02404.pdf
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post #73 of 251 Old 01-22-2019, 02:54 PM
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Why don't we see any of the other civilizations? They are all long dead, or don't yet exist. The universe is billions of years old, and we have been cognizant of and able to realistically look for them for what, 70 years? That is not even a drip in the ocean of time. If our world is any indication, "developed" species don't last long, a few thousand years, before they destroy themselves, and the ability to look outwards for other lifeforms, a very small percentage of even that short timeframe.

It would be nice to have other cultures to view, to see if we earthlings are typical, but that is not possible, so all we can do is to extrapolate from what we see here. To wit: If we last another two hundred years, it'll be a miracle.

So, the universe is filled with blips, like us, who rise and fall so quickly, nobody would even be able to tell we were ever here, or they were ever there.
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post #74 of 251 Old 01-22-2019, 03:12 PM
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Lost in Eternity, "like Tears in the Rain"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvFY...&frags=pl%2Cwn
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post #75 of 251 Old 01-23-2019, 06:02 AM
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^^
One of the best scenes in SF moviedom. After all these years, that film still gets it.
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post #76 of 251 Old 01-23-2019, 08:33 AM
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Last nights episode was good, are all the episodes true?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubbock_Lights

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post #77 of 251 Old 01-23-2019, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post
Last nights episode was good, are all the episodes true?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubbock_Lights
All the episodes are based on reports of UFO activity and unexplained events. Now weather they are true is up to the eye of the beholder.

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post #78 of 251 Old 01-23-2019, 02:44 PM
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Assume the Universe is infinite, as many believe. And our event known as the Big Bang has been expanding for around 14.7 billion years. Even If we keep expanding forever our event will still never amount to even a single dot in an infinite universe. Makes me think there are probably a great many other events out there. Otherwise what a waste of space.
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post #79 of 251 Old 01-23-2019, 03:07 PM
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"...Why should the Earth be the only planet supporting advanced forms of life? It is not singular in any other respect. But if intelligent creatures do exist, as we may assume they do elsewhere in the universe, I should not expect them to try to communicate with the Earth..."

--Albert Einstein

Don't fear the Reaper. Fear the Repack!
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post #80 of 251 Old 01-23-2019, 03:44 PM
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Until we get a better handle on how life started on Earth, I am going be more skeptical than I used to be. Perhaps, life starting is an almost infinitely impossible event as well. We just don’t know. I do think it is a waste of space but that is just a human view. It is also hard for me to believe that the odds are we are just ”between” evolved intelligent life elsewhere. It bothers me with the age of the universe, that there aren’t signals and space junk everywhere. That said, it would be profound if we found any evidence of past or present intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. It would be amazing.

I also enjoy speculation even if is somewhat questionable tv shows.
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post #81 of 251 Old 01-23-2019, 03:44 PM
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Assume the Universe is infinite, as many believe. And our event known as the Big Bang has been expanding for around 14.7 billion years. Even If we keep expanding forever our event will still never amount to even a single dot in an infinite universe. Makes me think there are probably a great many other events out there. Otherwise what a waste of space.

Yeah, I don't think anyone thinks that there can't be life out there somewhere, the topic seems to be more centered around whether that life could/would bother to "visit" us. As your post illustrates, it's a big place. Consider that when galaxies "collide", there's a real chance that none of the bodies hit each other. It's a big ask for our brains to comprehend anything on that scale, and all these years of watching SciFi and people zipping around the universe probably hasn't helped.

There's also the problem of these Aliens physically visiting Earth. The atmosphere/gravity/chemical makeup is almost certainly toxic to a race conceived on a different planet. Most of the UFO stories contain little guys running around breathing our air. Earth is bespoke to us as we are bespoke to it. There are so many numbers involved that I just can't see a similar race to ourselves being likely. You've got basically a random number generator determining the amount and type of Supernova poop for the basic ball. Then an equally random amount and type of comets, asteroids, and god knows what else, to ram into it for a billion years or so. Then the perfect distance from a perfectly suited Sun. THEN add in the galaxy's MVP of a moon. It goes on and on. They would be so different, I really doubt that they'd be skulking around keeping an eye, or whatever perceptory appendage they favor, on us.
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post #82 of 251 Old 01-24-2019, 08:19 AM
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Do all UFOs have to be 'piloted' by physical beings?

Why are we searching for extraterrestrial life? Would it be beyond reason other habitable planets with intelligent life would be doing the same? Would their reasoning have to be the same as ours? What if they are on a dying planet and have been searching for a 'new home?' One of the reasons we want to go to Mars is for human survival. Bill Nye is one who thinks it can't be done, but others do. What may be unreasonable now may not be in the future because of the rapid technological advancements we are reading about every day. What would the pubic reaction have been if Henry Ford said; one day the car will drive itself? Was cloning on anyone's mind in the 1700s?

Every thought we have is based on the world as we know it. We can't comprehend what we do not know. But that doesn't mean if we can't comprehend it it doesn't or can't exist.
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post #83 of 251 Old 01-24-2019, 08:28 AM
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Larry King, still alive and kicking it seems, talking to the area 51 guy, Bob Lazar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7jA...A&frags=pl%2Cw
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post #84 of 251 Old 01-29-2019, 07:52 PM
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Cat Lady ... they always come off as rational ....


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post #85 of 251 Old 01-30-2019, 06:00 AM
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Assaulted with commercials yet again. I woke up sore!!!
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post #86 of 251 Old 01-30-2019, 06:34 AM
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Haven't read the whole thread, but some stuff posted during the Orville dryspell:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/34-hd...l#post55419596


Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
Yep. Anecdotes and unverified claims. Like opinions, everybody's got one.

Wake me when there's some hard evidence. High resolution photographs instead of white or colored blobs. Actual wreckage or little gray, big-eyed bodies. Something substantial. Anything.

Hey, I'm like Fox Mulder. I want to believe. But I need something to believe in besides indistinct blobs of light and endless antecdotes that are all a version of "Golly, I saw something weird but don't know what it was and I have no photographic evidence or anything else except my testimony to make you believe me.
Evaluate the efficacy of the eyewitness verbatim accounts Below.

YOU are the juror.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3502
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_testimony

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_testimony
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

Quote:
Witness testimony is a common form of evidence in law, and law has mechanisms to test witness evidence for reliability or credibility. Legal processes for the taking and assessment of evidence are formalized. Some witness testimony may be described as anecdotal evidence, such as individual stories of harassment as part of a class action lawsuit. However, witness testimony can be tested and assessed for reliability. Examples of approaches to testing and assessment include the use of questioning to identify possible gaps or inconsistencies, evidence of corroborating witnesses, documents, video and forensic evidence. Where a court lacks suitable means to test and assess testimony of a particular witness, such as the absence of forms of corroboration or substantiation, it may afford that testimony limited or no "weight" when making a decision on the facts.
Quote:
Evaluating the credibility of eye-witness testimony falls on all individual jurors when such evidence is offered as testimony in a trial in the United States

Some cases everyone should be aware of:

<4000 BCE Sanskrit accounts
https://www.collective-evolution.com...000-years-ago/

<100 AD Early history cases
https://theportalist.com/7-mysteriou...before-roswell

1492- Columbus first voyage sightings recorded in ship logs (Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1492_light_sighting
http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bdo...cs/01-col.html
http://www.historydisclosure.com/149...fo-encounters/

1561 Nuremberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_c...over_Nuremberg

1600's Puritan reports
https://www.history.com/news/america...t-ufo-sighting

1700's
http://www.thinkaboutitdocs.com/1700...ien-sightings/
http://uforesearchnetwork.proboards.com/thread/390

1939-1945 WW2 Foo Fighters

1947 Roswell- UFO Files episode with Stanton Friedman interviews

http://www.stantonfriedman.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanton_T._Friedman


1947 Ken Arnold sightings (pilot in flight- this case coined the term "flying saucers")
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennet...d_UFO_sighting

1947 Maury Island
From Think Anomalous TY channel

1952 Washington DC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_W...._UFO_incident

President Truman on UFO's
http://www.presidentialufo.com/old_site/harrys.htm

1953 Kelly Johnson (SR71 and U2 designer & engineer from Lockheed Skunkworks)
http://www.openminds.tv/multiple-wit...eer-1953/28560
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Johnson_(engineer)

1954 Eisenhower

1961 Betty & Barney Hill case
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_and_Betty_Hill

1975 TV Movie with James Earl Jones (Darth Vader voice) on the Hill case

1964 Police Officer Zamora incident
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonnie_Zamora_incident

1968 Vietnam War officer reports
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/...n_7046472.html

1969 Jimmy Carter (degreed engineer) sighting and report
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter_UFO_incident

1976 Tehran Iranian Air Force pilot encounter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Tehran_UFO_incident

1980 Rendlesham

1986 Japan Airlines over Alaska
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_..._1628_incident


1989 Obama's personal pilot case

1989 Voronezh Russia

1996 Varginha Brazil


1997 Phoenix, AZ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights


10's of thousands of Phoenix residents described seeing the "mile wide" V-shaped ship, many describing the undersurface as it silently glided over their home.

2006 Chicago O'Hare airport case
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_O...t_UFO_sighting

http://www.ufocasebook.com/bestufopictures.html
https://www.history.com/news/history...-ufo-sightings
http://www.travelchannel.com/shows/e...ross-the-world

Nuclear Missile site shutdowns (also reported by UK and Russian officers/generals at their nation's sites and navy ships/subs)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-air-...tivated-nukes/
https://gizmodo.com/apollo-astronaut...war-1724429735

Triangle ship sightings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_triangle_(UFO)
http://dbarkertv.com/Allen_Park.htm (viewed in detail by aircraft mechanic)
Phone interview http://dbarkertv.com/Allen_Park.wma
http://www.ufostalker.com/search/triangle

The best, most serious/professional TV series ever on the subject was UFO Files, IMO- many episodes on Youtube
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0433320/

Also the more recent Mufon series Hangar 1
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3552688/
https://www.history.com/shows/hangar-1-the-ufo-files
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...HxqRn12R-yno3v

Peter Jennings Hosted documentary Seeing is Believing

Out of the Blue - top UFO Documentary

Norwegian UFO documentary

In addition to eyewitness accounts, many events have recorded radar data, which may be considered evidence, as the craft performance (speed/agility/accelerations) and/or size are recorded.

2007 Alderney Pilots + Radar sighting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_A...y_UFO_sighting


Dec 2017 Navy Pilot report
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/u...arry-reid.html

10 pilot cases
https://listverse.com/2015/12/20/10-...irline-pilots/

Astronaut comments since the 1950's
http://www.syti.net/UFOSightings.html

Mercury Astronaut Gordon Cooper interview

I prefer verbatim reports with hand drawings, coupled with some background info/credentails of the reporter to judge veracity, such as pilots (commercial, military and amateur), military officers, police and accredited PhD/MD researchers & engineers.

Recent interview with a retired cop/detective/MP, great summary of the current state of affairs

He describes an excellent case from 2014, Vancouver WA, starts around 26:30, example of the best kind of report
From YT channel UFOHub

Databases,
Continually updated, contributed daily

Mufon last 20 reports-
https://mufoncms.com/last_20_report.html
100's of people "Coming out of the closet" every month reporting incidents from their childhood in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and later

May search by many criteria- location, date range, ship type, etc
https://www.mufon.com/track-ufos.html

Live UFO map, may enter/search MUFON case numbers, better user interface
http://ufostalker.com/

Nice collection/database of cases, pictures, videos and witness accounts:

https://www.ufocasebook.com/
https://www.ufocasebook.com/alienabductions.html

Fringe/Alternative/"New Age" information & beliefs:

http://montalk.net/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=P...&v=F7oVwGIAYeU
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEc...dljuLw0-Umf97A
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_finalidad.htm
https://www.exopolitics.org/
http://galactic.to/TOREALF/
http://galactic.to/TOREALF/GINFO.HTML

Lacerta
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/v...a_alien_52.htm

Ummo
http://www.ummo-sciences.org/en/



Bottom Line:

A poor picture/video would be dismissed.

A clear picture/video with detail will be claimed a hoax - a model or photoshopped/CGI.

Good physical evidence would be confiscated by military/governments.

In the end, everyone must make their own judgement and form their own conclusions.

At minimum, the centuries/millenia of anecdotal reports constitutes what the CIA/KGB would consider "raw intel" (collected information)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_intelligence

I do not plan to argue or respond re: the merits of any particular case.

YOU are the juror.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3502
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_testimony

Evaluate the efficacy of the eyewitness verbatim accounts above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_testimony
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

Quote:
Witness testimony is a common form of evidence in law, and law has mechanisms to test witness evidence for reliability or credibility. Legal processes for the taking and assessment of evidence are formalized. Some witness testimony may be described as anecdotal evidence, such as individual stories of harassment as part of a class action lawsuit. However, witness testimony can be tested and assessed for reliability. Examples of approaches to testing and assessment include the use of questioning to identify possible gaps or inconsistencies, evidence of corroborating witnesses, documents, video and forensic evidence. Where a court lacks suitable means to test and assess testimony of a particular witness, such as the absence of forms of corroboration or substantiation, it may afford that testimony limited or no "weight" when making a decision on the facts.
Quote:
Evaluating the credibility of eye-witness testimony falls on all individual jurors when such evidence is offered as testimony in a trial in the United States
Attached Files
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File Type: txt ufo-research-190219.txt (12.2 KB, 2 views)
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post #87 of 251 Old 01-30-2019, 06:51 AM
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^^^ Dude! That was some serious research efforts there. Respect!

But there still ain't no undeniable physical evidence. Heck, enough of them have been reported to have crashed that there ought to be something. Wake me when somebody finally presents some that does not involve a "government cover-up" or photographic hoax or vivid imagination or simple hallucination or natural phenomena misidentification.
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post #88 of 251 Old 01-30-2019, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
^^^ Dude! That was some serious research efforts there. Respect!

But there still ain't no undeniable physical evidence. Heck, enough of them have been reported to have crashed that there ought to be something. Wake me when somebody finally presents some that does not involve a "government cover-up" or photographic hoax or vivid imagination or simple hallucination or natural phenomena misidentification.

...just what I recall off the top of my head

Distilled to the "good stuff" IMO

Reserve judgement until you watch all vids above and review most of the other cases & videos
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post #89 of 251 Old 01-30-2019, 08:43 AM
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...just what I recall off the top of my head

Distilled to the "good stuff" IMO

Reserve judgement until you watch all vids above and review most of the other cases.
We have gods & religion because early primitive men who did not know where the sun went at night needed something to explain natural phenomena they did not understand. Weirdly, we still have it, long after we have outgrown the original need for it. It's a delicate subject, and I realize that view is still in the minority as we have created other, different needs it satisfies. People defend those needs with vigor and, all too often, weapons & violence.

We have UFO theories because of much the same reason -- we've seen things we can't understand and need some way to explain it. The probable explanation is they are all either misinterpreted natural phenomena, secret military experiments, or hoaxes. The good news is we don't feel the need to kill people who don't agree. *Whew*

It does not give me pleasure to say this. I really want to believe. Boy oh boy do I want to! And when somebody brings forth a piece of an extraterrestrial craft that was clearly not manufactured on this planet and enough scientists confirm it to move it the realm of established & accepted fact, then I will. And I will be ecstatic!
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post #90 of 251 Old 01-30-2019, 08:47 AM
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This should get me through till next Tuesday...lol I am not an xfiles, Star Wars, Star Trek, Orville/Family Guy fan! This Show is like a "Soft Disclosure"
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