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post #1231 of 1576 Old 06-10-2019, 01:51 PM
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I don't know if F1 rules allow for it in this instance, but I would've preferred the stewards withholding judgment until they spoke with both drivers at race conclusion.

What I saw and rationalized during and after race. Vettel made a mistake hitting the grass. Vettel acknowledged such and stated that he saw Hamilton as he was attempting to regain control of the car coming off the grass. Hamilton acknowledged that Vettel did nothing untoward coming off the grass. He understood what Vettel was dealing with. As far as I could tell, broadcast replay and commentary also confirmed what the two drivers said.

My initial thought in real time was amazement at how both avoided colliding. Vettel probably more to luck. My eyes and brain in a split second determined that collision was unavoidable. I was in disbelief when I saw Vettel speeding away and Hamilton coming out of a hard braking.

An amazing display of driving in all respects by Hamilton, and he showed exceptional class post-race, as did Vettel. "The crowd should not boo Lewis."

The only loser was F1 with that too-quick-to-judge decision.
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post #1232 of 1576 Old 06-10-2019, 10:07 PM
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It sounds like you are describing something that happened on the highway. These guys are racing at the edge of control, that's why there are "racing incidents", which wouldn't fly in a highway situation. I don't know about HAMs reflexes saving the day, his in car cam shows him trying to seize an advantage as soon as he saw what was happening (as he should). If they were dead set on a penalty, they should have made him give up the place and let him try and get it back. Five seconds is an eternity. Ridiculous penalty.

Yes, that would have been the sensible call. It would have penalized Vettel for returning to the track unsafely in an attempt to maintain his lead and it would have meant some more good racing action if Vettel / Ferrari were good enough to challenge Lewis the Ham. The stewards have the data and the onboard camera footage to determine quickly what has happened and what to do.
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post #1233 of 1576 Old 06-10-2019, 10:41 PM
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100 percent agree with this article.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/formula1/48583803
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post #1234 of 1576 Old 06-11-2019, 04:49 AM
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I am a Vettel fan but he made a mistake. He has been making more and more of them. The 5sec penalty was the right call. Time for Vettel to retire.
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post #1235 of 1576 Old 06-11-2019, 07:43 AM
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I am a Vettel fan but he made a mistake. He has been making more and more of them. The 5sec penalty was the right call. Time for Vettel to retire.
lol
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post #1236 of 1576 Old 06-11-2019, 01:13 PM
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Just returned from the Canadian F1 race. Disappointing conclusion.
On another note, visited the Gilles Villeneuve Museum (45 miles outside Montreal). Definitely worth the visit.
Quite a bit of memorabilia and history.
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post #1237 of 1576 Old 06-11-2019, 01:49 PM
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Just returned from the Canadian F1 race. Disappointing conclusion.
On another note, visited the Gilles Villeneuve Museum (45 miles outside Montreal). Definitely worth the visit.
Quite a bit of memorabilia and history.
Cool, how close were you to the podium after the race?
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post #1238 of 1576 Old 06-11-2019, 01:56 PM
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Cool, how close were you to the podium after the race?

Too far. Our seats are at the hairpin. We once tried sitting on the front straight opposite the pits and podium, but it was like watching a tennis match from center court. Painful neck,
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post #1239 of 1576 Old 06-11-2019, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by gprace View Post
Just returned from the Canadian F1 race. Disappointing conclusion.
On another note, visited the Gilles Villeneuve Museum (45 miles outside Montreal). Definitely worth the visit.
Quite a bit of memorabilia and history.

What was the mood of the crowd after the race? Were people ready to give up on F1?

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post #1240 of 1576 Old 06-11-2019, 03:53 PM
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What was the mood of the crowd after the race? Were people ready to give up on F1?

Many "boos" for Hamilton and cheers for Vettel in the crowd.
The people we know seemed to want to return to the event next year.
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post #1241 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Time for Vettel to retire.
lol You're not a Vettel fan.
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post #1242 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 08:05 AM
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lol You're not a Vettel fan.
Second place in Formula One for the last two years. If he should retire, then so should everyone else not named Hamilton. Then we could just substitute the races for Lewis doing 10 laps waving at the crowd. Unfortunately, I think there are some who would endorse this.
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post #1243 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 08:15 AM
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I can only say this, if Sebastian Vettel had not made a mistake there wouldn't have been a penalty. It seems since he's been at Ferrari his "mistakes" have increased. He's not my favorite driver but was hoping he would have had better time at Ferrari.
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post #1244 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Then we could just substitute the races for Lewis doing 10 laps waving at the crowd.
I thought they already did this.
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post #1245 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I can only say this, if Sebastian Vettel had not made a mistake there wouldn't have been a penalty. It seems since he's been at Ferrari his "mistakes" have increased. He's not my favorite driver but was hoping he would have had better time at Ferrari.
Couldn't agree more.
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post #1246 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 08:21 AM
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I was anticipating some wins from Ferrari and maybe Max at Red Bull, but this doesn't look likely now.
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post #1247 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 08:53 AM
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No worries....the new tech rules and financial arrangements for 2021 are a done deal. Parity will reign, and every race will go down to the last lap with several drivers battling mano o mano.

Oh wait.....

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/48600136
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post #1248 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 08:58 AM
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I can only say this, if Sebastian Vettel had not made a mistake there wouldn't have been a penalty. It seems since he's been at Ferrari his "mistakes" have increased. He's not my favorite driver but was hoping he would have had better time at Ferrari.
True, but I would rather have someone making mistakes by driving on the ragged edge than someone willing to "settle".
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post #1249 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 09:08 AM
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No question Seb has been trying so hard he has been doing unforced errors, but its gotta be so frustrating for him. First of all the new tires totally favor Mercedes plus the new Ferrari aero doesnt give him enough downforce in slower corners. With all that, Ferrari still could have had a couple of wins, as LeClerc was heading for a win when he had troubles in one race, and this one was Sebs as I totally disagree with the stewards on this. I hope Seb can keep his head together though the rest of the year and not make the errors he has been making.

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post #1250 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BGLeduc View Post
No worries....the new tech rules and financial arrangements for 2021 are a done deal. Parity will reign, and every race will go down to the last lap with several drivers battling mano o mano.

Oh wait.....

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/48600136

Dieter gives a comprehensive run down. It doesn't look like it is that far off. He also mentioned that the death of Whiting had an effect on getting this done.
https://www.racefans.net/2019/06/12/...21-masterplan/

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No question Seb has been trying so hard he has been doing unforced errors, but its gotta be so frustrating for him. First of all the new tires totally favor Mercedes plus the new Ferrari aero doesnt give him enough downforce in slower corners. With all that, Ferrari still could have had a couple of wins, as LeClerc was heading for a win when he had troubles in one race, and this one was Sebs as I totally disagree with the stewards on this. I hope Seb can keep his head together though the rest of the year and not make the errors he has been making.
The tires don't favor Mercedes. They have done a better job of dealing with them than the other teams. Haas has probably had the biggest problem with them.

I believe the tire situation is crap and the FIA should look to Indycar with Firestone for guidance on how to regulate the tires. No one in Indycar says they have to have the tires within a two degree window to perform optimally.

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post #1251 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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No question Seb has been trying so hard he has been doing unforced errors, but its gotta be so frustrating for him. First of all the new tires totally favor Mercedes plus the new Ferrari aero doesnt give him enough downforce in slower corners. With all that, Ferrari still could have had a couple of wins, as LeClerc was heading for a win when he had troubles in one race, and this one was Sebs as I totally disagree with the stewards on this. I hope Seb can keep his head together though the rest of the year and not make the errors he has been making.
And it would be remiss not to mention the mistakes that the team has made as well.
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post #1252 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 11:50 AM
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And it would be remiss not to mention the mistakes that the team has made as well.
Ferrari -- Mistakes?!?! Say it isn't so. Never happened. Unpossible.
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post #1253 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 01:28 PM
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New regs are going to increase crashes. No tire warmers increases the cost of pit stops by forcing you to drive more slowly until you’ve warmed up the tires. Overdriving the tires when cold will definitely result in crashes, and many of those that don’t crash are going to severely degrade their tires. I hate artificial drama.
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post #1254 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 01:41 PM
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2019 Formula 1 Racing in HD

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Originally Posted by bizwig View Post
New regs are going to increase crashes. No tire warmers increases the cost of pit stops by forcing you to drive more slowly until you’ve warmed up the tires. Overdriving the tires when cold will definitely result in crashes, and many of those that don’t crash are going to severely degrade their tires. I hate artificial drama.


How do drivers in nearly all (if not all) other series manage without tire warmers?

I don’t even know how those IndyCar drivers even get a complete race in with everyone crashing after their pitstops.... /s


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Alex Wurz, head of the Grand Prix Drivers Association:
"Each and everyone in the system who thinks this penalty is not justified is at fault because over the years, with all these incidents and cases, the drivers and team managers asked the FIA in the open way of discussion for clarification of what is allowed and not - down to millimetre and micrometer movements," Wurz explained.
"In this whole process over the years, that is where we arrived."
https://f1i.com/news/344257-wurz-bla...erfection.html
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Alex Wurz, head of the Grand Prix Drivers Association:
"Each and everyone in the system who thinks this penalty is not justified is at fault because over the years, with all these incidents and cases, the drivers and team managers asked the FIA in the open way of discussion for clarification of what is allowed and not - down to millimetre and micrometer movements," Wurz explained.
"In this whole process over the years, that is where we arrived."
https://f1i.com/news/344257-wurz-bla...erfection.html
Thank you, karlsch.

So, if it's as Wurz says, then I guess I must reevaluate my Sunday viewing every couple of weeks. I didn't quite know what Vettel meant by one of his post-race comments, "People want to see us race and that was, I think, racing. I hope the people come back, that's the main thing obviously... it's just a shame when we have all these little funny decisions."

Now, I think I do.

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post #1257 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 08:25 PM
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Thank you, karlsch.

So, if it's as Wurz says, then I guess I must reevaluate my Sunday viewing every couple of weeks. I didn't quite know what Vettel meant by one of his post-race comments, "People want to see us race and that was, I think, racing. I hope the people come back, that's the main thing obviously... it's just a shame when we have all these little funny decisions."

Now, I think I do.


Vettel has been pretty consistent on his views of penalties, even when they concern his team mate. (while still having Kimi's back) This video thinks it's "getting" Vettel but it kinda backfires considering Vettel's actual words.



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post #1258 of 1576 Old 06-13-2019, 08:32 PM
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I can only say this, if Sebastian Vettel had not made a mistake there wouldn't have been a penalty. It seems since he's been at Ferrari his "mistakes" have increased. He's not my favorite driver but was hoping he would have had better time at Ferrari.

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Couldn't agree more.

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post #1259 of 1576 Old 06-14-2019, 04:02 AM
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Welcome to the light 007, welcome to the light side.
Don’t be fooled. That post shows that Bond’s account has obviously been hacked. There is no other plausible explanation. Regular programming will resume shortly. :-)
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post #1260 of 1576 Old 06-14-2019, 11:26 AM
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PSA: Le Mans is this weekend.

The entire 24 hours is on MotorTrend TV or can be streamed from their web site.

I do note that when I searched from my D* DVR, it did not find all the separate blocks of Le Mans programming.

I am surely not going to watch the entire 24 hours, but I do want to record it all.
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