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post #1591 of 2268 Old 07-23-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Yes, they would unlap themselves, because the lead lap cars pitted.

You can't go from being a lap down to leading. The lapped cars would have to go around the circuit to catch up to the back of the lead lap cars.
Aha, that's my mistake! Thank you! I was assuming it was a short lap and they had gone all the way around whilst the leaders were pitting. Since, you know, the IndyCar pit stops are so slow and leisurely! Only 1 guy per wheel, like in Formula 2, what's all that about? And the way they throw the wheel guns onto the ground and someone behind the wall pulls the cable, all the time the wheel gun bouncing and smashing on the ground, makes me whince every time - because in F1, those wheel guns are highly specialised and cost $20,000 due to their massive torque to save vital tenths

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This is the bit that is total BS.

I think you are getting confused. Let us use two cars. New and Dixie. New was the leader and completed 10 laps. Dixie was lapped and completed 9 laps. The safety car comes out. New pits and Dixie goes around him. New comes out of the pits behind Dixie and catches up to the back of him. Dixie isn't the leader, because he has not completed 10 laps. Dixie is just in front of him. They wave Dixie by and he circles around the track and he is now right behind New, because Indycar wants the leader to restart the race. They are now both on the lead lap and Dixie has made up a lap through luck.

I could live with that scenario. The BS is that after the sequence above Dixie is allowed to pit as well and keep his new position of being right behind New.

So the safety car has allowed multiple cars to get their lap back AND pit. It should be one or the other not both.
I agree and many thanks for the explanation. Yes, it would be like in F1, allowing the cars to unlap themselves and then waiting for them to catch up (they no longer do this fully, it used to take about 5 laps!), and then giving them a pit chance. It seems all designed to take away any incentive to race hard, don't bother, anyone behind you gets given a free pass to catch up if someone spots a small piece of carbon fibre on the track somewhere.

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It must have been a headache.
Indeed

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post #1592 of 2268 Old 07-23-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Aha, that's my mistake! Thank you! I was assuming it was a short lap and they had gone all the way around whilst the leaders were pitting. Since, you know, the IndyCar pit stops are so slow and leisurely! Only 1 guy per wheel, like in Formula 2, what's all that about? And the way they throw the wheel guns onto the ground and someone behind the wall pulls the cable, all the time the wheel gun bouncing and smashing on the ground, makes me whince every time - because in F1, those wheel guns are highly specialised and cost $20,000 due to their massive torque to save vital tenths
I agree. I can't imagine they are heading down to Home Depot and grabbing a gun off the shelf.

Nascar teams were spending a lot of money on guns until the sanctioning body decided it was stupid. They now are using a spec gun.



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I agree and many thanks for the explanation. Yes, it would be like in F1, allowing the cars to unlap themselves and then waiting for them to catch up (they no longer do this fully, it used to take about 5 laps!), and then giving them a pit chance. It seems all designed to take away any incentive to race hard, don't bother, anyone behind you gets given a free pass to catch up if someone spots a small piece of carbon fibre on the track somewhere.
Exactly! Why should Newgarden push as hard as he can if the lapped cars can take a more leisurely pace?

I find it humorous that some people say what Dixon did was incredible. The fact is he was lapped early on. He was lapped again, but stretching his stop and the yellow flag allowed him to finish second.
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post #1593 of 2268 Old 07-24-2019, 02:04 PM
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Nigel Mansell on, by far, my favorite F1 era: "In qualifying you literally had up to 1,500 horsepower -- it's reputed that BMW had more. And to have wheel spin in sixth gear down the straight, at 175 or 180mph -- you cannot put that into words as a driver. "At every single corner you came to, the car was literally trying to kill you," Mansell added.

The whole story: https://www.grandprix.com/news/drive...s-mansell.html
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post #1594 of 2268 Old 07-24-2019, 02:55 PM
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German Grand Prix



Practice 1 - Friday, July 26, 4:55 AM - ESPN2

Practice 2 - Friday July 26, 8:55 AM - ESPNU

Practice 3 - Saturday, July 27, 5:55 AM - ESPN2

Qualifying - Saturday, July 27, 8:55 AM - ESPN2

Pit Lane Live - Sunday, July 28, 7:30 AM - ESPN3

On The Grid - Sunday, July 28, 8:30 AM - ESPN

Race - Sunday, July 28, 9:05 AM - ESPN

Race (re-air) - Sunday, July 28, 7:00 PM - ESPNEWS

Race (re-air) - Sunday, July 28, 10:00 PM - ESPN2









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post #1595 of 2268 Old 07-24-2019, 03:30 PM
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What I love about Hockenheim is how thin the classic track is, where they return to the old stadium section. It's barely wider than a car's width!

So sad that they got rid of the wonderful forest bits.
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post #1596 of 2268 Old 07-24-2019, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by karlsch View Post
Nigel Mansell on, by far, my favorite F1 era: "In qualifying you literally had up to 1,500 horsepower -- it's reputed that BMW had more. And to have wheel spin in sixth gear down the straight, at 175 or 180mph -- you cannot put that into words as a driver. "At every single corner you came to, the car was literally trying to kill you," Mansell added.

The whole story: https://www.grandprix.com/news/drive...s-mansell.html
Can't always blame it on the car.

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There were no safety precautions of any sort. One driver reported seeing a herd of goats crossing the road during a practice session, and towards the end of the race itself, when only a handful of cars were left running, the gaps between the remaining competitors were so great that children played games on the roads, scattering when they heard the noise of an approaching Ferrari or Maserati.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ss-formula-one
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post #1597 of 2268 Old 07-24-2019, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
This thing is trying too hard with its janky old pushrod engine. Flat plane crank V8 and I might be interested.

I do applaud them for at least throwing in a proper dual clutch and not that lame ZF8 slushbox everyone seems to be using.

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post #1598 of 2268 Old 07-24-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
This thing is trying too hard with its janky old pushrod engine. Flat plane crank V8 and I might be interested.

I do applaud them for at least throwing in a proper dual clutch and not that lame ZF8 slushbox everyone seems to be using.
They knew what to aim for with the DCT.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...rsche-gearbox/
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post #1599 of 2268 Old 07-24-2019, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
This thing is trying too hard with its janky old pushrod engine. Flat plane crank V8 and I might be interested.

I do applaud them for at least throwing in a proper dual clutch and not that lame ZF8 slushbox everyone seems to be using.
That janky pushrod engine makes as much hp as everybody else and costs half as much to make and half as much to repair. Have you heard one of those janky engines at song? Not many sound better. Have you heard Ford's flat plane motor? Yeah, no so good. Needs earplugs. The Ferrari flat plane is of course gorgeous to listen to.

Chevy literally laughs at these Swiss watch engines with janky wins at Daytona, janky wins at Sebring, and janky wins at Le Mans. And they get better fuel mileage than all of 'em.
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post #1600 of 2268 Old 07-24-2019, 09:52 PM
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Apparently I wasn't the only one confused and irritated by the wave around rule. A couple of people popped the question to Robin Miller.

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Q: Isn’t the intention of the wave-around rule just to remove the lapped cars from between the pace car and the leader? Why does IndyCar give every driver one lap down their lap back every time the leaders pit under caution? It sure seems like some real NASCAR-type entertainment B.S. contrived to keep as many cars on the lead lap as possible. If a driver goes a lap down, he should have to race his way back onto the lead lap, which is feasible if he has a fast car. (Rossi at Phoenix last year was a perfect example). There shouldn’t be any freebies in racing.

Tom, Newark, NY

RM: There are two schools of thought. It sucks for the guys who ran fast enough to lap everyone, but it’s better for the show to have 16 cars on the lead lap instead of six. It’s nothing new, and I can’t recall when this policy started, but likely the late ’80s or early ’90s. I’ve never liked it, or closing the pits, because it’s manipulating the competition, and sometimes it actually becomes an advantage to those cars because if they pit for fresher tires and more fuel for the sprint for the finish.
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Q: I am tired of the rule that allows wave-around cars to pit before they go green. On the caution for Sato, only the top six were still on the lead lap, but seventh-place Rossi and 17th-place Dixon were a lap down. When the pits opened, all six lead lap cars pitted. On the next time by for the cars a lap or more down, nobody pitted. A few laps later, everyone ahead of Newgarden got the wave-around, putting them on the lead lap. Then they pitted, staying on the lead lap. In NASCAR, only one car gets the Lucky Dog. In IndyCar, the rule allowed 10 cars to get the lucky dog. (Not that any of this was ever explained on TV).

So when they restarted, the top 17 were on the lead lap. This is totally unfair to the six who were good enough not to get lapped and had earned that buffer. Instead, the 17th-place car went on to finish second. I get that it’s about the show these days instead of racing, but lets keep it IndyCar racing, not IndyCar entertainment. I hope Jay Frye and the powers-that-be fix this rule for 2020.

Mark in Cincinnati

RM: I don’t like it either, and in the old days CART had a rule that the pass-around cars could not pit until the restart, so that was much more fair to the front-runners that had earned an advantage. For example, you’d still lose at least one lap at Iowa, and be a half lap behind at Road America when it went back to green. But when the car counts diminished that rule was eliminated. And I’m told the teams all voted to retain this rule, but that’s not to say IndyCar won’t review it.
https://racer.com/2019/07/24/robin-m...-racing-hpd/4/
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post #1601 of 2268 Old 07-25-2019, 08:57 AM
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I wonder if we'll see much action on Friday. Expected to be 102 F in Hockenheim for FP2!!! But T-storms on Saturday, showers on Sunday. Should make for a nice mixed up grid and race.
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post #1602 of 2268 Old 07-26-2019, 08:01 AM
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post #1603 of 2268 Old 07-26-2019, 08:40 AM
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Gasly did himself no favors by crashing in FP2. He will be on the backfoot in Qualifying tomorrow.

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post #1604 of 2268 Old 07-26-2019, 08:43 AM
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post #1605 of 2268 Old 07-26-2019, 08:49 AM
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Gasly did himself no favors by crashing in FP2. He will be on the backfoot in Qualifying tomorrow.
Yeah that was ugly. He was back to being slow again to boot. I wouldn't be surprised to see someone else in the seat after the break. I'm sure Horner has Alonso's cell number.

Racing Point's upgrades seem to have been super effective. GRO driving for his job it seems. Do that every weekend Romain. Williams still three and a half seconds off the pace even with upgrades.
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post #1606 of 2268 Old 07-26-2019, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post
I wonder if we'll see much action on Friday. Expected to be 102 F in Hockenheim for FP2!!! But T-storms on Saturday, showers on Sunday. Should make for a nice mixed up grid and race.
Deemed the "griddle" for this race.
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post #1607 of 2268 Old 07-27-2019, 09:59 AM
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post #1608 of 2268 Old 07-27-2019, 10:02 AM
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Another dumpster fire for Ferrari. Kimi is on fire all weekend. Hopefully Max gets a good start and makes this interesting.
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post #1609 of 2268 Old 07-27-2019, 10:15 AM
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Getting out of Q2 was damn tight.

Spoiler!
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post #1610 of 2268 Old 07-27-2019, 10:19 AM
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Gasly recovered nicely.

WTF is going on with Ferarri?

Ham got pole again. I know I am beating a dead horse, but in any other racing series this doesn't happen. In Nascar, from Earnhardt to Gordon to JJ to Kyle Busch you don't see them winning the pole and race 80% of the time. In Indycar, RP doesn't have one driver that wins pole and race every time.

One final thing on the pits. Gros avoided Kvyat and almost swerved into the William's mechanic. Despite what happened with Sato a couple of races ago, the pits are still safer in the US.
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post #1611 of 2268 Old 07-27-2019, 11:01 AM
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This has been such a miserable two days in sports for me in my miserable life!! First two days in a row the dreaded Red Sox destroy the Yankees, and now BOTH Ferrari's have mechanical trouble after looking so good in practices and Seb will start at the back and LeClearc will start well back too. Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!
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post #1612 of 2268 Old 07-27-2019, 01:57 PM
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I agree with a lot of what Clarkson said here:

Karl S.
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This has been such a miserable two days in sports for me in my miserable life!! First two days in a row the dreaded Red Sox destroy the Yankees, and now BOTH Ferrari's have mechanical trouble after looking so good in practices and Seb will start at the back and LeClearc will start well back too. Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!
I hold no brief for the Scuderia but I do hate it when every F1 race weekend turns into another boring Mercedes parade. We still don’t know what will happen tomorrow of course but I’m not holding my breath that it will be different. I encourage everybody to watch Jeremy Clarkson’s rant about what is wrong with F1 on YouTube. I thought he was absolutely right. In fact I might have written it myself.

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post #1614 of 2268 Old 07-27-2019, 02:42 PM
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I watched the Clarkson rant. It was ok, but completely disagree about the stewards. They need to loosen it up a little, but don't need to get rid of them all together. Remember it was the drivers and teams that wanted these rules. The reap what they sew.

For those that love Bernie, it was he and CVC that put F1 into its current mess. That being said if you removed the top three teams then the races would be exciting. Look at qualifying today. Q2 was extremely close for the midfield.

I think the new cost cap will do a lot to bring the teams closer together. The midfield are close on spending and pretty close on the track. Unfortunately, it will take a couple of years to get where it needs to be. The $175 million with exceptions is still to high. Read this.
https://www.racefans.net/2019/06/12/...21-masterplan/
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post #1615 of 2268 Old 07-27-2019, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Another dumpster fire for Ferrari.
They should just retire from F1.
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post #1616 of 2268 Old 07-28-2019, 12:34 AM
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Getting out of Q2 was damn tight.

Spoiler!

That's amazing, truly amazing, they actually had space in their diagram to fit the Williams cars in.
Well done, very well done!
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post #1617 of 2268 Old 07-28-2019, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Ewww..rain. Boogity, boogity, boogity!
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post #1618 of 2268 Old 07-28-2019, 09:06 AM
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What a race! Can it rain every GP please? Max still in with a shout for the WDC? Horner... Dude just call up Fern right now? Or I guess call up the ruskie.
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post #1619 of 2268 Old 07-28-2019, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Great race. I even watched the podium for the first time this year. Feel bad for LeClerc and Hulkenberg.
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post #1620 of 2268 Old 07-28-2019, 10:12 AM
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By far the best race in years, Need to wet the track every race. And after bad mouthing Vettel he really came though. I bet first time in his Career that 2nd place felt great. And why is F1 leaving Germany. Again just a great race,
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