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post #151 of 189 Old 06-07-2019, 01:28 PM
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Yeah, I'd go, maybe I could find a nice chunk of graphite that was missed in the cleanup, to bring back.
Good luck getting that through TSA ..
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post #152 of 189 Old 06-11-2019, 08:53 PM
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The BBC talks to survivors about the series:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48580177
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post #153 of 189 Old 06-13-2019, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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They have a huge hit on their hands.


‘Chernobyl’ Explodes ‘Game Of Thrones’ Digital Record For HBO; Miniseries Nears ‘True Detective’ Viewership


EXCLUSIVE: There’s a lot of anecdotes about what a global sensation Chernobyl has become for HBO, but like the fallout from the horrific nuclear plant eruption of 1986, it is the numbers that tell the real story.

And unlike the initially suppressed devastation that still leaves parts of Ukraine soaked in radiation and put Europe under threat over 30 years ago, the data for the Jared Harris, Emily Watson and Stellan Skarsgård-led miniseries are nothing but good. In fact, heading into Emmy voting, Chernobyl’s numbers are dragon slaying and nearly up to that of a certain Arkansas murder mystery.

To be specific, having seen an almost uninterrupted viewership climb from its May 6 debut to its soul crushing June 3 finale, the widely acclaimed Craig Mazin-created historical drama has emerged with a cumulative audience of 8 million so far.

That’s better than the 7.3 million cumulative viewership that the Amy Adams-led Sharp Objects had over its eight-episode run last summer. While still out of the zone of the 8.5 million that the seven episodes of the first season of Big Little Lies snared in early 2017, Chernobyl is now poised right behind and may even soon surpass the 8.1 million cumulative audience of the eight-episode third season of True Detective.

And remember, all those high profile shows to which comparisons are being made air on TV’s big night of Sundays.

Out weekly, the five episodes of Chernobyl were on HBO’s relatively new expansion territory of Mondays which was previous a dumping ground for toxic shows. In that context, looking at the results of Chernobyl will surely impress the brass at WarnerMedia, who are marching the once Richard Plepler-run premium cabler into more programming over more nights to bulk up inventory for future streaming services.

What might really impress John Stankey and the AT&T crowd is that blast from the past Chernobyl and its vision of the dying days of the USSR has deeply planted its flag in the present and future way people watch the small screen in 2019.

When you break down the numbers of Chernobyl’s dedicated viewership, it’s 35% linear, 13% OD and a massive 52% from HBO Go, HBO Now and other OTT platforms. That last number is the Ace in hand for HBO and a record breaker too. No other HBO series has ever topped 50% in its digital contribution. As you would expect, the previous record holder was Game of Thrones but that David Benioff and D.B. Weiss EP’d Emmy winning blockbuster never made it over 46%, even during its recent eighth and final season.

Chernobyl shows that a great series will find an audience,” HBO Entertainment boss Casey Bloys said to Deadline today of the remarkable numbers the limited series set in what is now the Ukraine has hit and exceed. “Could not be prouder and so happy the viewers seeked it out on our platforms,” the exec added.
Having said that, not everyone loves Chernobyl, at least not in the Kremlin.

Swinging a sickle wide, Russian state TV is planning its own version of the story where a CIA operative is at the heart of the core meltdown. On this side of what used to be the Iron Curtain, obvious Emmy contender Chernobyl has been perched as the top of IMDB’s all-time TV rankings with a 9.7 out of 10 in the last few days – which I get as I named the series the show you had to watch in my review of May 2.


At the same time, Chernobylmania caused creator Mezin took to social media on Tuesday to caution against misery tourism. Visits to the still maintain Exclusion Zone around the former rector and the ghost city of Pripyat has surged into the double digits since Chernobyl debuted on HBO and Sky UK.

https://deadline.com/2019/06/chernob...ys-1202631705/
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post #154 of 189 Old 06-13-2019, 05:48 AM
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Russians aren't very happy about this mini-series, and now here's the result:

https://bgr.com/2019/06/05/chernobyl...cia-spy-story/

Soon to be the official U.S. position. :-)
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post #155 of 189 Old 06-13-2019, 08:31 AM
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Mini Nuclear Reactor in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYrh...&frags=pl%2Cwn
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post #156 of 189 Old 06-18-2019, 06:15 PM
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Parts of Eastern Europe, a huge number of South American power customers, and scattered locations in Japan all had brownouts and blackouts over the past two days... Is Dyatlov still at the toilet?
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post #157 of 189 Old 06-18-2019, 06:45 PM
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Here's an interview with Dyatlov:


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post #158 of 189 Old 06-19-2019, 08:41 AM
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This was as good as anything I've ever seen on TV. Set aside the historical and societal importance of the subject matter; this is art in every dimension film can be art. Drama, acting, cinematography, music, editing, writing. No other reason to watch this is needed aside from the desire to have a great viewing experience.
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post #159 of 189 Old 07-01-2019, 04:22 PM
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The future of nuclear power?

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post #160 of 189 Old 07-02-2019, 01:02 AM
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Superb series
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post #161 of 189 Old 07-03-2019, 11:11 AM
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I haven't been able to watch this yet but here's an interview with an author who's studied this for a long time. He has some issues with the show but the interview is more about his findings.

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/02/73798...clear-disaster

Ukraine actually has built tourism around the site, where you can go to the edge of the exclusion zone and buy trinkets like mugs and yellow vests and such.

The idiocy of the Soviets is astounding. First the thing was way way bigger than any reactor in the west. It was typical of Soviet "big mania" at the time. It was an inherently unsafe design. The Politburo learned that if it didn't happen in Chernobyl, it would have happened somewhere else because these flawed designs were used elsewhere.

But instead of making the designer look bad, they blamed the plant operators. The designer was this prestigious scientist, who was in his 80s by that time, in the Soviet science academy. The reactor which exploded was only 3 years old, not some antiquated unit which had fallen into disrepair.

While Gorbachev was pushing perestroika and glasnost at the time, the Poliburo was still dominated by conservatives who decided to release minimal information. In fact, the West learned of the disaster when radiation detectors in Sweden were set off by workers tracking radioactive material on their shoes (from the fallout which had polluted the Northern Hemisphere) into their nuclear plants.

They never told their own people. The nearest city had a population of 50,000 and was created to build and operate the plant. The day after the explosion was unseasonably warm so this guy went up to the roof of his apartment building and sunbathed. His skin turned dark. He tried to get his neighbors to join him but they declined because he smelt of burnt flesh.
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post #162 of 189 Old 07-03-2019, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
I haven't been able to watch this yet but here's an interview with an author who's studied this for a long time. He has some issues with the show but the interview is more about his findings.

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/02/73798...clear-disaster

Ukraine actually has built tourism around the site, where you can go to the edge of the exclusion zone and buy trinkets like mugs and yellow vests and such.

The idiocy of the Soviets is astounding. First the thing was way way bigger than any reactor in the west. It was typical of Soviet "big mania" at the time. It was an inherently unsafe design. The Politburo learned that if it didn't happen in Chernobyl, it would have happened somewhere else because these flawed designs were used elsewhere.

But instead of making the designer look bad, they blamed the plant operators. The designer was this prestigious scientist, who was in his 80s by that time, in the Soviet science academy. The reactor which exploded was only 3 years old, not some antiquated unit which had fallen into disrepair.

While Gorbachev was pushing perestroika and glasnost at the time, the Poliburo was still dominated by conservatives who decided to release minimal information. In fact, the West learned of the disaster when radiation detectors in Sweden were set off by workers tracking radioactive material on their shoes (from the fallout which had polluted the Northern Hemisphere) into their nuclear plants.

They never told their own people. The nearest city had a population of 50,000 and was created to build and operate the plant. The day after the explosion was unseasonably warm so this guy went up to the roof of his apartment building and sunbathed. His skin turned dark. He tried to get his neighbors to join him but they declined because he smelt of burnt flesh.
The RMBK 1000 was only slightly larger or more powerful than a typical western reactor at 1000mw per reactor versus ~800 per reactor at Fukashima, for example, and this output is fairly typical. The RMBK design was highly efficient and very cheap, which is why it was favoured. Output at all four reactors at Chernobyl was about 3.7Gw versus 4.7Gw for the 6 reactors at Fukashima.

There have been many apocryphal stories about the Chernobyl disaster and you seem to be repeating one about the sunbather. The accident happened on 26 April 1986 and I doubt many people sunbath in the central Ukraine in April. Weather records show the peak temperature on 27 April in Kiev to be about 60F.

The accident was bad enough that there's no need to embellish it.
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post #163 of 189 Old 07-03-2019, 12:29 PM
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What a depressing little show but I couldn't stop watching. So well made.
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post #164 of 189 Old 07-03-2019, 12:33 PM
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The RMBK 1000 was only slightly larger or more powerful than a typical western reactor at 1000mw per reactor versus ~800 per reactor at Fukashima, for example, and this output is fairly typical. The RMBK design was highly efficient and very cheap, which is why it was favoured. Output at all four reactors at Chernobyl was about 3.7Gw versus 4.7Gw for the 6 reactors at Fukashima.

There have been many apocryphal stories about the Chernobyl disaster and you seem to be repeating one about the sunbather. The accident happened on 26 April 1986 and I doubt many people sunbath in the central Ukraine in April. Weather records show the peak temperature on 27 April in Kiev to be about 60F.

The accident was bad enough that there's no need to embellish it.
I'm not embellishing anything. This is what the guy said.

The author writes for the New Yorker and NY Times, not National Enquirer.

I don't know how well his book was received but he is supposedly one of the few who's dug into it for years.

60 degrees may not be much but if it was 35 the day before, it can feel like unseasonably warm.
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post #165 of 189 Old 07-03-2019, 01:03 PM
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I'm not embellishing anything. This is what the guy said.

The author writes for the New Yorker and NY Times, not National Enquirer.

I don't know how well his book was received but he is supposedly one of the few who's dug into it for years.

60 degrees may not be much but if it was 35 the day before, it can feel like unseasonably warm.
The author was repeating a story told to him by a someone about an event that happened over 30 years previous. The truth of the story is therefore suspect since it is anecdotal and unverifiable, but someone who's skin turns black from radiation is going to die, yet this death was not recorded. The actual individual death toll and the death tolls in the immediate decades are well documented and if you read through this thread you can find links to them.

The mini-series makes similar claims that many people who watched the initial fire from a bridge died, when none, apparently did. Boris Shcherbina was a heavy smoker who apparently died of lung cancer and therein lies another problem. It is a natural human tendency to attribute causation to popularized or spectacular events, when often they are much more mundane. Long term studies of the populations in the region around Chernobyl seem to show little to no increase in background cancer rates (with the exception of thyroid cancer which is rarely fatal).

The actual peak temperature in Kiev on April 26 and 27 was about 58.5F.
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post #166 of 189 Old 07-03-2019, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
I haven't been able to watch this yet but here's an interview with an author who's studied this for a long time. He has some issues with the show but the interview is more about his findings.

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/02/73798...clear-disaster

Ukraine actually has built tourism around the site, where you can go to the edge of the exclusion zone and buy trinkets like mugs and yellow vests and such.

The idiocy of the Soviets is astounding. First the thing was way way bigger than any reactor in the west. It was typical of Soviet "big mania" at the time. It was an inherently unsafe design. The Politburo learned that if it didn't happen in Chernobyl, it would have happened somewhere else because these flawed designs were used elsewhere.

But instead of making the designer look bad, they blamed the plant operators. The designer was this prestigious scientist, who was in his 80s by that time, in the Soviet science academy. The reactor which exploded was only 3 years old, not some antiquated unit which had fallen into disrepair.

While Gorbachev was pushing perestroika and glasnost at the time, the Poliburo was still dominated by conservatives who decided to release minimal information. In fact, the West learned of the disaster when radiation detectors in Sweden were set off by workers tracking radioactive material on their shoes (from the fallout which had polluted the Northern Hemisphere) into their nuclear plants.

They never told their own people. The nearest city had a population of 50,000 and was created to build and operate the plant. The day after the explosion was unseasonably warm so this guy went up to the roof of his apartment building and sunbathed. His skin turned dark. He tried to get his neighbors to join him but they declined because he smelt of burnt flesh.
I started to read the article, and I read about a third, and it pretty much says what the HBO shows says. You should see it and then re-read the article.


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post #167 of 189 Old 07-06-2019, 03:22 PM
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Watched the first episode.

Believable that the bureaucracy, especially the higher you go up, would suppress the info?

Especially the guy in the cane ordering them to cut the phone lines to the outside?

The producer or show runner said that the old guy symbolized the old Soviet dream of utopia that never arrived. Yet he still held onto it and would protect that dream even if it meant putting people in harm's way.

The plant chief telling screaming at his subordinate that he didn't see chunks of graphite from the reactor on the ground was something. Pulling rank to gaslight him and then he throws up and is taken to the hospital so the plant engineer and chief tells the other guy to go up on the roof and look for the reactor, sends an armed guard to make sure he does it.

Guy looks down into the abyss and he turns around and his face is burnt. He had refused to go initially because he knew it was probably his death.
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post #168 of 189 Old 07-11-2019, 12:14 AM
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Nuclear plants aren’t being built only because fears of disasters.

Nuclear generated electricity is no longer competitive, not to mention the capital costs of building new plants.


I seem to recall that there was panic at Fukushima, either at the plant or among the management of the utility company. They wanted to throw their hands up and give up. Supposedly the Prime Minister of Japan told the company that they had to contain and fix this.

When things go wrong, I can believe people would be paralyzed by fear, given the enormous potential for devastation.

But that Soviet/Russian culture, where leaders forced underlings, basically bullied and threatened them into doing things they didn’t want to do, led to disaster. The denial for the first day, with Dyatlov screaming at underlings who said they saw graphite on the ground. And they forced that guy to go to the roof and look down to verify the reactor was blown open.

They had to send him with an armed guard.

But the flip side is, hundreds of miners dug the trench under the cement pad, with no expectations of being rewarded, and thousands of biorobots cleared that roof so they could eventually build a containment structure.

The Russian Greatest Generation fought Hitlers armies, basically consumed all the German munitions to weaken the Nazis — cannon fodder. So maybe it’s in their culture to sacrifice in this way.

If the accident happened in the West, I’m not sure hundreds of thousands of Europeans and Americans would have gone into the “exclusion zone” willingly. Of course the Soviets who did were conscripts.
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post #169 of 189 Old 07-11-2019, 06:21 AM
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Finished this last week. As everyone here has said, it was just exceptional television. Very depressing, that it could have been allowed to happen, especially what happened to Legasov, the brilliant scientist who dared to finally tell the truth so the other Russian scientists could understand and paid for it with the destruction of his career and eventual suicide, Shcherbina, the "good man" who did everything he could within the system, and the fictional composite character of Khomyuk, dogged in her pursuit of the truth and the need to expose the lies so the remaining RMBK reactors could be fixed before it happened again.

And the reason for it all? Building these reactors on the cheap in spite of the clear danger and not telling the plant managers about the fatal design flaw. Depressing yes, but like Mrs. Archi said, like eating your vegetables. You really just need to do it because it's good for you.

Of course, now the Russians, shocked by the popularity of this production and knowing in this modern age they won't be able to keep it out, will make their own version and expose the true villain: a CIA saboteur.
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post #170 of 189 Old 07-11-2019, 10:07 AM
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Fascinating account from a Generation X'er who lived in Kiev at the time of the disaster:


There is so much more as to how idiotic the Soviets were in those days than what we saw in the docudrama. For instance, the Russians built the massive "Duga" over-the-horizon radar station about 20 km from the power station. That installation consumed, at times, one quarter of the electricity generated at Chernobyl. It was one of the largest radio transmitters ever built, pumped out dozens of MegaWatts of RF energy, and stood as a monument to Russian Paranoia (it actually cost more than the nuclear power plant). The Duga Radar was actually made obsolete before it was fully operational, because even though the Soviets designed it to detect a "first strike" missile launch against them by the Americans, it was not able to detect a submarine-launched missile strike, something which--if it ever was to happen--would have been used against them rather than an over-the-pole launch, a concept that dated back to the 1950s.

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post #171 of 189 Old 07-11-2019, 11:30 AM
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Fascinating account from a Generation X'er who lived in Kiev at the time of the disaster:

https://youtu.be/nCpEGeyMdTU

There is so much more as to how idiotic the Soviets were in those days than what we saw in the docudrama. For instance, the Russians built the massive "Duga" over-the-horizon radar station about 20 km from the power station. That installation consumed, at times, one quarter of the electricity generated at Chernobyl. It was one of the largest radio transmitters ever built, pumped out dozens of MegaWatts of RF energy, and stood as a monument to Russian Paranoia (it actually cost more than the nuclear power plant). The Duga Radar was actually made obsolete before it was fully operational, because even though the Soviets designed it to detect a "first strike" missile launch against them by the Americans, it was not able to detect a submarine-launched missile strike, something which--if it ever was to happen--would have been used against them rather than an over-the-pole launch, a concept that dated back to the 1950s.
US over the horizon EWR:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-t...U.S._Air_Force

The Chernobyl reactor complex produced 3.7GW of power and dozens of megawatts doesn't quite compare and even 37 megawatts is only 1% of it's peak output.

The Youtube video above is an example of how rumours and impressions get substituted as fact.
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post #172 of 189 Old 07-11-2019, 05:50 PM
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Nuclear plants aren’t being built only because fears of disasters.

Nuclear generated electricity is no longer competitive, not to mention the capital costs of building new plants.
Nuclear power is uncompetitive partly because renewable sources get subsidies, but nuclear doesn't, and there has been no price put on carbon. They are also expensive because some of the existing reactors are single-reactor plants, and they are unprofitable. I met a guy who works in the industry one time on a plane, he said it takes 500 people to run a single reactor, but it takes 600 to run a two-reactor plant. It's not hard to see why single reactor plants aren't profitable. The US should build 4- or 6- reactor plants out in the middle of nowhere near a fresh water source in various places around the country and then transport the power to existing connection points with new high voltage transmission lines. The rural areas are more accepting of them because jobs, and there are fewer people to be against them. The last issue that the new ones have is poor construction management. Better construction management would get them built on schedule and on budget. There are also new advanced technologies ranging from breeder reactors to pebble bed to molten salt reactors that haven't been commercialized, at least not at any scale.
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In the last decade the feds have offered loan guarantees and recently 40 year power purchase agreements at rates above cost and above market rates for renewables.

Still the nuclear industry isn’t rushing in.

Still takes a lot of capital to build, even without political opposition. But they are probably find8ng better return on investment than committing it for the better part of a decade on the construction of a new plan.

Sure, it’s better return to have multiple reactors at one site. What if there’s an accident and it can’t be contained? Other reactors blow up or melt down?

And don’t tell me there will never be accidents at new plants. Part of the problem with Fukushima, IIRC, is that it had operated for a couple of decades before the accident. By then, the plant personnel were far removed from the original operations staff. They were also not trained from the lessons of TMI or Chernobyl. So they weren’t prepared and they were ready to bail, leaving the mess continue to spew more radiation indefinitely.
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In the last decade the feds have offered loan guarantees and recently 40 year power purchase agreements at rates above cost and above market rates for renewables.

Still the nuclear industry isn’t rushing in.

Still takes a lot of capital to build, even without political opposition. But they are probably find8ng better return on investment than committing it for the better part of a decade on the construction of a new plan.

Sure, it’s better return to have multiple reactors at one site. What if there’s an accident and it can’t be contained? Other reactors blow up or melt down?

And don’t tell me there will never be accidents at new plants. Part of the problem with Fukushima, IIRC, is that it had operated for a couple of decades before the accident. By then, the plant personnel were far removed from the original operations staff. They were also not trained from the lessons of TMI or Chernobyl. So they weren’t prepared and they were ready to bail, leaving the mess continue to spew more radiation indefinitely.
Fukushima was a direct result of a design mistake that left the diesel b/u generators in the basement where they were flooded out by the Tsunami. This was pretty clearly a senior management mistake. The crews worked heroically to try and remedy the situation after the tsunami.

This is just a taste of what's coming down the pike:

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-48947573

and far more people are dying, every day now from the effects of environmental pollution and global warming and far more will die in the coming decades from global warming than will ever have died from every nuclear power plant accident. It's easy to point the finger at nuclear power and then ignore the catastrophe that is engulfing us from burning coal and other hydrocarbon fuels. We need to end coal now and the only way to do that is a combination of renewable and nuclear power.
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post #175 of 189 Old 07-11-2019, 08:16 PM
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Please, this has been a really good thread, let's not go down the Global Warming sinkhole.
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post #176 of 189 Old 07-12-2019, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
In the last decade the feds have offered loan guarantees and recently 40 year power purchase agreements at rates above cost and above market rates for renewables.

Still the nuclear industry isn’t rushing in.

Still takes a lot of capital to build, even without political opposition. But they are probably find8ng better return on investment than committing it for the better part of a decade on the construction of a new plan.
That's a challenge, but with the right government incentives and putting a price on carbon, nuclear can work.

Quote:
Sure, it’s better return to have multiple reactors at one site. What if there’s an accident and it can’t be contained? Other reactors blow up or melt down?

And don’t tell me there will never be accidents at new plants. Part of the problem with Fukushima, IIRC, is that it had operated for a couple of decades before the accident. By then, the plant personnel were far removed from the original operations staff. They were also not trained from the lessons of TMI or Chernobyl. So they weren’t prepared and they were ready to bail, leaving the mess continue to spew more radiation indefinitely.
Maybe you should understand the technology before spewing FUD. Who cares about Chernobyl, no one is building RBMK reactors, and they were never built outside of the Soviet Union anyway. The GE Mark I BWR is a piece of crap design with poor safety features. There are 1GWe PWR designs today that can be built with passive cooling so that if everything fails and they are completely dead/dark, they cool themselves through a giant heat pipe of boiling and condensing water. Maybe we should mandate that all new reactors are passively cooled and failsafe in their design, as opposed to requiring active cooling. I think that's a reasonable ask given the severity of a meltdown, even if the backup systems have been extremely carefully engineered and maintained to ensure active cooling regardless of the circumstances. Further, today's reactor designs are much simpler than the ones of the 1970's that were customized for each plant, and had absurdly complex mazes of pipes and wiring compared to today's relatively simple and far more reliable plant designs.

There is a MASSIVE value in having clean, safe, reliable, virtually zero-carbon energy as baseload. Of course we should develop wind and solar, but with nuclear, our electric grid could have 20-50% more capacity and be 100%fossil-fuel-free within 20 years or so. Having a dozen or two 6- to 10-unit mega plants placed strategically throughout the United States would push us forward toward this goal.

With that additional baseload capacity, and drastically expanded renewable resources combined with a massively upgraded smart grid that allows people, cars, thermostats, and appliances to bid on power, we could move to electrify a large proportion of our automobile, bus, and truck VMTs and most of our building heating load through heat pumps. We could also start to look at electrifying long-distance mainline freight railroads, regional commuter rail systems, and basically anything else that uses fossil fuels today.

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Please, this has been a really good thread, let's not go down the Global Warming sinkhole.
It's not a sinkhole. It's just a fact that far more people have died from global warming than nuclear power, and that will only continue to become more so the case over time.
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post #177 of 189 Old 07-12-2019, 03:26 PM
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Several years ago now, I read of a nuclear reactor idea, using molten salt instead of water, said to be less dangerous and most importantly can be powered with spent fuel rods, which seems just a tad better than just burying them. I guess nothing has come of it. That sounds brilliant to me.

https://www.fastcompany.com/3043099/...-nuclear-waste

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post #178 of 189 Old 07-12-2019, 03:29 PM
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The problem with fission reactors it seems are twofold.
1) Accidents happen. Including accidents that nobody had foreseen. And nuclear fuel is, like, really dangerous if it escapes the confines of the reactor. Sometimes via accidents or geologic events that nobody foresaw.
2) What to do with the waste products & spent fuel? Yucca mountain is dead thanks to Nevada NIMBY's. Right now they're storing it on site at the reactors. One of 'em is about a quarter mile from my house. Gives me a nice warm feeling at night to know it's there, just sitting around in barrels. And every week -- more barrels.

The thing is, this stuff is dangerous. Too dangerous. There are better alternatives.
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post #179 of 189 Old 07-12-2019, 05:05 PM
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The problem with fission reactors it seems are twofold.
1) Accidents happen. Including accidents that nobody had foreseen. And nuclear fuel is, like, really dangerous if it escapes the confines of the reactor. Sometimes via accidents or geologic events that nobody foresaw.
2) What to do with the waste products & spent fuel? Yucca mountain is dead thanks to Nevada NIMBY's. Right now they're storing it on site at the reactors. One of 'em is about a quarter mile from my house. Gives me a nice warm feeling at night to know it's there, just sitting around in barrels. And every week -- more barrels.

The thing is, this stuff is dangerous. Too dangerous. There are better alternatives.
Yeah before the nuclear debate pretty much ended in this country, politicians would always have to take a position on Yucca or somewhere else or something else to do with nuclear plant waste.

There was the issue of security, having that waste fall into the wrong hands for dirty bombs and there was still the issue of where it has to end up.

The waste problem still hasn't been solved.
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post #180 of 189 Old 07-12-2019, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
The problem with fission reactors it seems are twofold.
1) Accidents happen. Including accidents that nobody had foreseen. And nuclear fuel is, like, really dangerous if it escapes the confines of the reactor. Sometimes via accidents or geologic events that nobody foresaw.
2) What to do with the waste products & spent fuel? Yucca mountain is dead thanks to Nevada NIMBY's. Right now they're storing it on site at the reactors. One of 'em is about a quarter mile from my house. Gives me a nice warm feeling at night to know it's there, just sitting around in barrels. And every week -- more barrels.

The thing is, this stuff is dangerous. Too dangerous. There are better alternatives.
Accidents do happen, but if we were being honest about it, we'd shut down coal powered electrical generation today because each plant is a Chernobyl - IE each one is a full scale release of metallic (mercury and others) and radioactive contaminants along with massive amounts of CO2 and lung damaging particulates , which if they were being emitted from a NPP would cause global outrage, yet this is happening right now as we converse at hundreds of coal powered plants around the globe and no one says boo about it!

Spent fuel is actually not that dangerous and if we'd do the intelligent thing and drop the containers into the Challenger Deep, they would pose no hazard whatsoever. However if the spent fuel was reprocessed than we'd being seeing it as a very cheap energy source to be reused in other NPPs. Yucca mountain style NIMBYism is a symptom of our innate irrationality:
I remember the huge debate over seat belts (and later air bags) and the dire warnings that in some really really rare situations they might kill you...and so tens of thousands of people went to their deaths because they were afraid to buckle up. It's human nature that we can be stampeded away from safety and towards catastrophe by irrational fear. This fear is almost always stoked by a vocal minority with an agenda.

There really is no other alternative because we live on a planet with a day/night cycle. We need a non-polluting source of power than can run 24x7 especially at night, and this is why we are burning coal.
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