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post #1 of 26 Old 09-12-2019, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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House of the Dragon- HBO HD (2022 launch)

HBO is nearing a pilot order for a second Game of Thrones prequel series...and this one has dragons— lots of dragons...the network is said to be close to deal for a project that’s based on the history of the Targaryens...the series would lead up to and eventually chronicle the house’s civil war— a.k.a the legendary Dance of the Dragons...The Dance of the Dragons was a massive civil war in the Seven Kingdoms held between two rival branches of House Targaryen...the war occurred roughly 200 years before the events in Game of Thrones

https://ew.com/tv/2019/09/12/game-of...el-targaryens/
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post #2 of 26 Old 09-15-2019, 01:18 PM
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HBO is nearing a pilot order for a second Game of Thrones prequel series...and this one has dragons— lots of dragons...the network is said to be close to deal for a project that’s based on the history of the Targaryens...the series would lead up to and eventually chronicle the house’s civil war— a.k.a the legendary Dance of the Dragons...The Dance of the Dragons was a massive civil war in the Seven Kingdoms held between two rival branches of House Targaryen...the war occurred roughly 200 years before the events in Game of Thrones

https://ew.com/tv/2019/09/12/game-of...el-targaryens/

Not entirely sure how I feel about that. On one hand, it's a very logical prequel. And they actually have source material to work with ... albeit it's kind of a fictional non-fiction book vs a fully plotted out story. At the same time I find it hard to get excited about the idea due to the fact we all kind of know where it'll lead -- we know the ending already.

There is also some value to certain past events being somewhat shrouded in mystery. It's one reason why I wasn't super keen on their prequel idea about the Doom of Valyria. It could have been a good show, but the details of its destruction work better as a mystery vs 'oops, we forgot to turn the volcano off while we went on vacation'.

I found the whitewalkers the least interesting part of GOT (and apparently that's the main focus of their other prequel project that got the go-ahead). And the next least interesting part to me was the dragons (which would be a focus of this Targaryen show).

So I'm kind of blase about these prequels coming out.
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post #3 of 26 Old 09-15-2019, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Not entirely sure how I feel about that. On one hand, it's a very logical prequel. And they actually have source material to work with ... albeit it's kind of a fictional non-fiction book vs a fully plotted out story. At the same time I find it hard to get excited about the idea due to the fact we all kind of know where it'll lead -- we know the ending already.

There is also some value to certain past events being somewhat shrouded in mystery. It's one reason why I wasn't super keen on their prequel idea about the Doom of Valyria. It could have been a good show, but the details of its destruction work better as a mystery vs 'oops, we forgot to turn the volcano off while we went on vacation'.

I found the whitewalkers the least interesting part of GOT (and apparently that's the main focus of their other prequel project that got the go-ahead). And the next least interesting part to me was the dragons (which would be a focus of this Targaryen show).

So I'm kind of blase about these prequels coming out.
I actually was totally onboard with an Old Valyria prequel...that was an interesting period that deserved a prequel...this Targaryen prequel is the 2nd most interesting but overall I think HBO is just trying to milk the series too much...HBO never used to do spinoffs/prequels/sequels so this is a completely new direction for them...they think that lots of dragons means huge hit but that wasn't the reason why GoT was such an epic series-- it was all about the characters and story...combine that with a fantasy setting and high production values and they hit it big

trying to get lightning in a bottle twice is going to be hard...AMC did it with Better Call Saul but even that show is not a ratings blockbuster nor did it ever reach the highs of Game of Thrones
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post #4 of 26 Old 09-15-2019, 07:05 PM
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I actually was totally onboard with an Old Valyria prequel...that was an interesting period that deserved a prequel...this Targaryen prequel is the 2nd most interesting but overall I think HBO is just trying to milk the series too much...HBO never used to do spinoffs/prequels/sequels so this is a completely new direction for them...they think that lots of dragons means huge hit but that wasn't the reason why GoT was such an epic series-- it was all about the characters and story...combine that with a fantasy setting and high production values and they hit it big

trying to get lightning in a bottle twice is going to be hard...AMC did it with Better Call Saul but even that show is not a ratings blockbuster nor did it ever reach the highs of Game of Thrones
I originally thought the Old Valyria prequel was a good idea. But after I thought about it more, I kind of went the other way -- I'd rather not know exactly what caused their destruction. Although if given a choice between the Old Valyria prequel and The Long Night (or whatever they end up calling it), I'd probably say just go ahead with the Valyria prequel.

I too think HBO is figuring dragons = ratings. As well as white walkers = walking dead = ratings. But they aren't why GOT was good.

I suppose if they have to do a prequel, it might as well be about the Targaryens... at least George has books about them. He better finish that 2nd Fire and Blood book though, or knowing how things go, 6 years from now they'll still be waiting for him...
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post #5 of 26 Old 09-15-2019, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I suppose if they have to do a prequel, it might as well be about the Targaryens... at least George has books about them. He better finish that 2nd Fire and Blood book though, or knowing how things go, 6 years from now they'll still be waiting for him...
that's the best thing about this Targaryen prequel- it's supposedly based on the 2-part Fire and Blood books...GRRM has released the first Volume...problem is with him you never know when the 2nd Volume is going to be released...GoT was at it's peak when it was following the books, once they past the books the writing started to suffer a bit while they went all in with expensive action set pieces and dragon CGI
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post #6 of 26 Old 09-15-2019, 08:26 PM
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that's the best thing about this Targaryen prequel- it's supposedly based on the 2-part Fire and Blood books...GRRM has released the first Volume...problem is with him you never know when the 2nd Volume is going to be released...GoT was at it's peak when it was following the books, once they past the books the writing started to suffer a bit while they went all in with expensive action set pieces and dragon CGI

The only Martin book I've read was the fictional nonfiction World of Fire & Ice. And it was more a skim ... originally I just was curious about the maps of the world, as with the show it's never exactly clear where everything is. Of course by seasons 7/8 I kind of wished I didn't know where places were, as travel ended up becoming ridiculous.

I think the Dunk and Egg stories are sort of in the middle of the Targaryen reign? Not sure if they want to incorporate those too, or if George is against it, as he supposedly was planning on writing more of them. There is also 'The Princess and the Queen' novella he wrote... fits in the timeline somewhere.

But I agree, at least there is some material to base a show off of. The quality of GOT started to go downhill once it passed the books, starting in season 5. And by the end without any new material, it kind of went off the rails, didn't seem like GOT anymore.

I thought it'd be kind of cool to do a short anthology series based on World of Fire and Ice, just the overall history and smaller stories, but that'd be better as a side project or extra prequel, not something HBO should bank on as being their main GOT followup. They already did this somewhat with those animated shorts (they were on the bluray discs as bonus material). But they could work as live action as well.

If they do make a Targaryen prequel, it could be interesting when they get to Bloodraven/3-eyed crow/raven, his backstory and eventually tie it into the GOT storyline. But it'll probably take them like 4-5 years, at least, to get to it, depending on how they pace the show.

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post #7 of 26 Old 09-16-2019, 10:39 AM
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It's amazing how bad a taste the end of GoT series has left with me - instead of being excited about this show, I'm completely "meh". I guess since D&D aren't involved, it could be good, but the new showrunners are going to have to do something really excellent for me to get back on board. Good luck to them, I guess!
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post #8 of 26 Old 09-16-2019, 12:08 PM
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It's amazing how bad a taste the end of GoT series has left with me - instead of being excited about this show, I'm completely "meh". I guess since D&D aren't involved, it could be good, but the new showrunners are going to have to do something really excellent for me to get back on board. Good luck to them, I guess!
Yeah, I know the feeling.

Unless George all of a sudden announces he finished the last 2 books and HBO planned to retcon the last couple of seasons, not much could really get me that excited about GOT anymore. And of course that isn't happening.

I just hope HBO doesn't go overboard on dragons and zombies. That's not what made GOT a good show.
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post #9 of 26 Old 09-16-2019, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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It's amazing how bad a taste the end of GoT series has left with me - instead of being excited about this show, I'm completely "meh". I guess since D&D aren't involved, it could be good, but the new showrunners are going to have to do something really excellent for me to get back on board. Good luck to them, I guess!
I'm still going to watch all the prequels but my anticipation/excitement is not what it was during the 8 seasons of GoT...
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post #10 of 26 Old 09-17-2019, 02:44 PM
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I think the Dunk and Egg stories are sort of in the middle of the Targaryen reign? Not sure if they want to incorporate those too, or if George is against it, as he supposedly was planning on writing more of them. There is also 'The Princess and the Queen' novella he wrote... fits in the timeline somewhere.
I would like to see Dunk and Egg as it has a different tone. It could be more humorous and adventurous rather than overtly political. Not much source material, though.
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post #11 of 26 Old 09-17-2019, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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hasn't HBO learned their lesson?...if this new series is going to be based off of GRRM's new compendium Fire and Blood books, they should wait until he actually releases the 2nd part...otherwise they're going to be stuck again if GRRM takes his sweet time releasing it

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post #12 of 26 Old 09-17-2019, 03:14 PM
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hasn't HBO learned their lesson?...if this new series is going to be based off of GRRM's new compendium Fire and Blood books, they should wait until he actually releases the 2nd part...otherwise they're going to be stuck again if GRRM's takes his sweet time releasing it
My first reaction was the same as yours... oh no, another show that needs to wait for his final book.

But unlike Fire & Ice, they should at least know where the stories go, which kings succeeded, major plot points and so on.

It's not like they can just rely on his 1st Fire and Blood book anyway, it's more just sort of a textbook framework to go by ... I haven't read it, but it's like his version of the Silmarillion. It's also supposedly a pretty boring read, more like a college history textbook just with the history all being based on a fictional world.

Ideally he releases the 2nd book, but even if he doesn't, I don't think it'd impact the series as much as it did GOT.
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post #13 of 26 Old 10-29-2019, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Game of Thrones Prequel Series House of the Dragon Snags 10-Episode Order

HBO has formally placed a 10-episode series order for a Game of Thrones prequel that would trace the glory days of House Targaryen...The spinoff, titled House of the Dragon, is co-created by GoT book author George R.R. Martin and Colony creator Ryan J. Condal, and is set 300 years before the original Thrones series, chronicling “the beginning of the end for House Targaryen.”...Martin’s companion book Fire & Blood serves as a template for the new series...GoT vet Miguel Sapochnik will direct...Sapochnik and Condal will serve as co-showrunners...

https://tvline.com/2019/10/29/game-o...ff-series-hbo/

now this sounds more like the GoT series that fans want to see- dragons, George RR Martin involvement, Miguel Sapochnik...only thing missing is Ramin Djawadi...the guy who created that USA network show Colony as co-showrunner is a bit troubling but he has a good support network surrounding him so it should be fine
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post #14 of 26 Old 10-29-2019, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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post #15 of 26 Old 10-30-2019, 01:04 PM
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now this sounds more like the GoT series that fans want to see- dragons, George RR Martin involvement, Miguel Sapochnik...only thing missing is Ramin Djawadi...the guy who created that USA network show Colony as co-showrunner is a bit troubling but he has a good support network surrounding him so it should be fine
The Colony guy is my concern too, not exactly the strongest track record there. I wonder why they passed on this same concept when Cogman was behind it. I'd rather have seen him as co-showrunner instead.

And the Long Night apparently has ended ... that must have been one lousy pilot they shot.
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post #16 of 26 Old 10-30-2019, 02:30 PM
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I actually liked the idea of the Watts prequel. Shame it didn't work out.

Despite its numerous flaws, I was able to enjoy the final season of Game of Thrones for what it was. I will say that Lena Headey seemed to have a much better grasp of the material than the showrunners. Perhaps she should have been in charge.
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post #17 of 26 Old 10-30-2019, 02:42 PM
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I actually liked the idea of the Watts prequel. Shame it didn't work out.

Despite its numerous flaws, I was able to enjoy the final season of Game of Thrones for what it was. I will say that Lena Headey seemed to have a much better grasp of the material than the showrunners. Perhaps she should have been in charge.
I wasn't a big whitewalkers fan, just glorified zombies with no payoff to their story -- so I'm fine with the Watts prequel being cancelled. I also wasn't a big dragon fan either, but at least that prequel makes more sense to me and they do have some source material to work with. Hopefully they focus more on characters than the dragons.

Only downside, which is the downside to all prequels ... we all know where the story is going.
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post #18 of 26 Old 10-30-2019, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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The Colony guy is my concern too, not exactly the strongest track record there. I wonder why they passed on this same concept when Cogman was behind it. I'd rather have seen him as co-showrunner instead.

And the Long Night apparently has ended ... that must have been one lousy pilot they shot.
I'm also very surprised that they passed on Cogman's story...in the end they basically ended up using his rough outline so I'm not sure what happened...he was just as instrumental in the success of GoT as Benioff and Weiss...he was a huge fan of the books and wrote some of the best episodes in the series...after HBO passed on his idea he jumped ship to Amazon where he is now on the Lord of the Rings TV series creative team

I think The Long Night was impacted by the mixed/negative outcry to the final season...I think if Season 8 was a huge success among fans then production would have continued and they would have given it a series order...there were too many Hollywood stars attached to it (mainly Naomi Watts) to just dump it...in the end the Long Night series was trying something too different from the established GoT canon (no Stark/Baratheon etc houses, no direct continuity with the main series)...HBO could not afford to take that gamble at this point (especially with the upcoming launch of their HBO Max streaming service)

they decided to play it safe and give us more of the big epic spectacle we've become accustomed to with dragons, Targaryens etc
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post #19 of 26 Old 10-30-2019, 04:10 PM
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I'm also very surprised that they passed on Cogman's story...in the end they basically ended up using his rough outline so I'm not sure what happened...he was just as instrumental in the success of GoT as Benioff and Weiss...he was a huge fan of the books and wrote some of the best episodes in the series...after HBO passed on his idea he jumped ship to Amazon where he is now on the Lord of the Rings TV series creative team

I think The Long Night was impacted by the mixed/negative outcry to the final season...I think if Season 8 was a huge success among fans then production would have continued and they would have given it a series order...there were too many Hollywood stars attached to it (mainly Naomi Watts) to just dump it...in the end the Long Night series was trying something too different from the established GoT canon (no Stark/Baratheon etc houses, no direct continuity with the main series)...HBO could not afford to take that gamble at this point (especially with the upcoming launch of their HBO Max streaming service)

they decided to play it safe and give us more of the big epic spectacle we've become accustomed to with dragons, Targaryens etc
Cogman would have been the logical choice for both a prequel and if D&D had decided to pack it in early after season 6. We can play the 'what if' game and wonder how things would have transpired if they just named him showrunner for the last couple of GOT seasons -- it couldn't have been any worse than what they ended up with.

And Cogman was around from the very beginning and wrote some decent episodes. Seemed like the logical man to take the showrunner reigns to me, but I guess they went in another direction.

I'm hoping some of Sapochnik's creative choices were due to the writing. He made some of the bigger, or more 'epic' episodes, but a couple of them also suffered due to lousy writing. Action + fights + dragons isn't what made GOT good, so although technically he's a fine director, I hope he wasn't behind some of the decisions made -- like let's forget any semblance of wartime strategy, or let's march our frontline into pitch blackness with an undead horde awaiting them, or how about we make everything so dark that nobody watching at home can tell what is happening...

And yeah, it's possible if GOT 8 was better received they may have gone ahead with both prequels. But I assume they didn't really give the go-ahead to 'Long Night' until after GOT ended, so they knew how folks reacted already. Maybe the new streaming service played a role, or the pilot was in fact just lousy. I read they had some issues and tried re-cutting it, but HBO still didn't like it.

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Only downside, which is the downside to all prequels ... we all know where the story is going.
that is definitely a major downside to this new House of the Dragon series...you can literally Google 'The Dance of Dragons' and find out all the details about how this series is going to end (I suggest people don't do it to preserve the surprise)...I'm sure they're going to change some things up but overall I don't see them making wholesale changes to the canon of one of the most important events in the history of the books

but either way outside of an Old Valyria prequel series this is the best option as far as an interesting, complex new series that can live up to the quality of GoT
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that is definitely a major downside to this new House of the Dragon series...you can literally Google 'The Dance of Dragons' and find out all the details about how this series is going to end (I suggest people don't do it to preserve the surprise)...I'm sure they're going to change some things up but overall I don't see them making wholesale changes to the canon of one of the most important events in the history of the books

but either way outside of an Old Valyria prequel series this is the best option as far as an interesting, complex new series that can live up to the quality of GoT

I wonder how they plan to pace the show. I assume they will open with the conquest of Westeros and Aegon, but there is so much material I am curious how they will spread things out.

They could do a new ruler a year, or skip around, or even jump into Dance of Dragons during the first season. I guess they shouldn't rush things, as I think George has stated Fire and Blood v 2 isn't planned until AFTER A Dream of Spring. So I guess that means, umm... 2040 or so?
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post #22 of 26 Old 10-31-2019, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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George RR Martin won't write House of the Dragon scripts until Winds of Winter done

George R.R. Martin took to his blog to react to the massive Game of Thrones news this week where one prequel in development was canceled by HBO while another prequel concept was given a full-series order — House of the Dragon, based on Martin’s history of House Targaryen in Westeros

Martin reveals that House of the Dragon was the first concept he pitched to HBO as a successor show to GoT, and suggests to prepare for the show you not only read his book Fire & Blood but also the anthologies he wrote with Gardner Dozois, Dangerous Women and Rogues...

https://ew.com/tv/2019/10/31/george-...of-the-dragon/
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Game of Thrones Spinoff Prequel House of the Dragon Eyeing 2022 Launch

Blood & Fire, a companion book Martin wrote to go along with his A Song of Ice and Fire novels, will provide a template for the new series...HBO President Casey Bloys said the existence of that source material gave House of the Dragon an edge over other Thrones continuation ideas including Jane Goldman’s pilot, which starred Naomi Watts and which was killed in October 2019...

https://tvline.com/2020/01/15/house-...rones-spinoff/
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post #26 of 26 Old 01-23-2020, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
I gotta question. Which one of y'all put the bop in the bop shoo bop shoo bop?
That'd be @markrubin , though he's denied it under oath.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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