2019-2020 NBA Season thread - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 551 Old 05-18-2020, 08:10 PM
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so you think that something completely controlled by Jordan where he has the final say on everything (including getting the last word whenever another player is interviewed) is considered objective?...I don't understand what the issue is...is there really any sort of argument about this?...this is not a 60 Minutes piece or Real Sports on HBO where a 3rd party is gathering info and presenting it in a neutral way...this is Jordan controlling everything about the production...the director has admitted this...it's not meant to be a documentary in the traditional sense
"Jordan controlling everything about the production" is in direct contradiction to the statements I've seen from the director, at least. Jordan may have had that ultimate control to exercise if he so chose to do so, but my understanding is that he never once exercised it. Accordingly to his statements when being interviewed Scott Van Pelt on ESPN last night, the director was very emphatic on this point. Jordan never once overrode the decisions of the director or demanded removal of any content contained within the documentary.

And there was negative and controversial ground covered in the documentary; his gambling, his toughness on some teammates, his disrespect for the GM Jerry Krause. So outright dismissing it as a, "puff piece" strikes me as exceedingly harsh.

Now with that said, let's understand what this documentary was and what it wasn't. It was a documentary about the career of Michael Jordan the NBA player and global superstar filtered through the lens of the last championship season. Within that context, all was fair. What it wasn't though was a documentary about the entirety of his life, including all of his personal life. That he wouldn't agree to, so to that extent, yes, it wasn't a complete biography of the man's life. Does that make it a "puff piece" then? I don't think so.

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plus I quoted Ken Burns, the noted historian/filmmaker who stated the same thing...what exactly is your dispute with my statements?...that it's a 'puff piece'?...that was Stockton's exact quote which I repeated.
You called it a puff piece and then later attributed the term to Stockton for cover. In other words, they were your words reflecting your apparent point of view based upon your assessment of what you had been reading (and again, never actually seeing for yourself).

And Stockton hadn't seen the documentary when making that statement either, so why did you call it a puff piece when neither you nor Stockton had seen it yet? You've dismissed it out of hand.

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I'm not saying MJ wasn't one of the greatest players ever...he was...I'm saying for me he's not the GOAT...but Top 3 sure...is that really something so hard to believe?
OK, but your story is changing. A day or few ago, you had four players ahead of Jordan with "a better case" for GOAT; Magic, Kareem, Wilt and Bill Russell.

Now you have Jordan in the top 3 "for sure", apparently hopscotching over 2 from your own list. That's progress, at least.

Look, I really don't have an issue with someone who may have a different GOAT. But not only the fact that you claimed FOUR players ahead of Jordan but that you also did so seemingly without much doubt about it.

Even among the so-called experts, when they don't name-check Jordan as being GOAT, it may typically be only one other player (though the particular player may vary; Russell, LeBron, etc,.) they may insert into that exalted position instead. But rarely is it a smorgasbord of different players like you had listed.

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post #512 of 551 Old 05-18-2020, 08:21 PM
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Yes, "kaput either way", I agree.

The fact that the Bulls struggled badly for the next several years doesn't negate the validity of the decision to break them apart, IMO. It was simply time.

A couple beat reporters who covered the team in that last championship season said that it took everything out of them for the Bulls to get through the year. The burden of high expectations, along with increasing age, injury and mental/physical exhaustion. Their last championship brought them little joy, just mostly relief.
I don't disagree and I've basically said so. Keeping MJ was only the choice with hindsight as I said that ultimately would have made sense. Since no one has hindsight until later, I see why Krause wanted to blow up the team though I don't know why he antagonized Phil Jackson. As I mentioned earlier, MJ was not honest to himself about the probability of a 7th championship and that his best shots were lost when he went to play baseball.

I also think that MJ was incredibly closed minded about a lot of things. The idea that torturing his teammates was the only way to get them playing is just wrong and is the playbook of oldtime coaches who thought that screaming and punishment were the only ways. Kerr himself went the way of Pete Carroll by trying to make practices fun, by treating his players as individuals and by adapting the system to get the best out of the players.

In the end, MJ closed himself off to the world (and he obviously had to do it) so he achieved fame and glory but at a high cost. There have been others who wanted to be the best who sacrificed everything for that. In the end, it is really what divides the very good from the great but I've never held it against guys who want to be well rounded rather than single minded.

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post #513 of 551 Old 05-18-2020, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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"Jordan controlling everything about the production" is in direct contradiction to the statements I've seen from the director, at least. Jordan may have had that ultimate control to exercise if he so chose to do so, but my understanding is that he never once exercised it. Accordingly to his statements when being interviewed Scott Van Pelt on ESPN last night, the director was very emphatic on this point. Jordan never once overrode the decisions of the director or demanded removal of any content contained within the documentary.

And there was negative and controversial ground covered in the documentary; his gambling, his toughness on some teammates, his disrespect for the GM Jerry Krause. So dismissing it as a, "puff piece" strikes me as exceedingly harsh
Jordan did exercise his control...he always got the last say on everything...whenever any player made a comment the director would then play it for MJ on his laptop for Jordan to get the final word...MJ's family life while he was married to his first wife (which he was during the entire dynasty) was never mentioned...why?...because it would paint him in a negative light...you're not seeing it objectively because it seems you are a Jordan/Chicago fan...nothing is wrong with that but my point is that any objectivity is lost

you mention 1 interview with Scott Van Pelt on the very network that ran the documentary!...do you not see any potential issues with that?...you're not seeing it because you don't want to see it...Ken Burns is objective and there are many other articles which also question the objectivity of the series...no one is saying it's not entertaining...the point is that it's not a legit documentary in the traditional sense...it's a look at the Jordan years as narrated and told by Jordan...he gets to put down players like Clyde Drexler, Gary Payton, Isiah Thomas etc even if it was just in fun it is not an objective look

Stockton used those exact words in the article I linked to...so when I mentioned it previously it was obvious it was because I knew what Stockton and others have said...where was Karl Malone, Byron Russell etc?...why didn't they make an appearance?

Kareem, Magic, Russell and in the future Lebron do have legit cases for being the GOAT...if anyone said to me Kareem or Russell is the GOAT, you can't argue with that...and I gave you clear examples of why which you choose to ignore- Russell has more then double the rings, Kareem has more MVP's and is the all time scorer in NBA history...your reasoning about different eras etc is just a way to make your argument of Jordan sound more legitimate...the NBA goes through different eras all the time...Showtime Lakers, Bad Boys, Warriors dynasty etc...it doesn't mean anything because you can only play in the era in which you played...there is no hypothetical time jumping or excuse making (well the Warriors wouldn't have won if they played the 85 Celtics as they would have gotten beat up...totally immaterial to the argument because that's pure conjecture...you play a particular way based on the era you're playing in)

and again, you kept mentioning rings as the overriding factor saying Magic has 5 so that means he's lesser then Jordan who has 6...absolutely not...and of course you ignored my comment about Robert Horry having 7 titles...does that mean he's better then Jordan or Kareem?...or even Bird who has 3?...No...a player having more rings just means he was on a great team at the right time...Bird and/or Magic would have had more if the other wasn't playing at the same time

just because the documentary mentioned some good things about Jerry Krause, the overall take was not a good one and made him look bad...I read 3 articles today which stated that same thing...again you're not looking at things from an impartial mindset...you're looking at it as a person who lives in Chicago and loves the Bulls and that dynasty...again nothing wrong with that but my point has always been that this documentary is not objective...it's a Jordan tribute series

as far as my GOAT...it's not Jordan...but I can totally understand people who do have him as the best...Kareem and Russell are definitely ahead of him...Jordan 3rd...although I can make serious a serious case for Magic...my 2 favorite players ever were Larry Bird and Olajuwon but I'm not going to say they were Top 5 all time...Bird is Top 10 and Dream Top 15

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post #514 of 551 Old 05-18-2020, 08:43 PM
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Let's face it -- 'The Last Dance' was basically a puff-piece. Jordan may not have exercised any cuts, but it's pretty clear he put boundaries on what could be presented and how, particularly where his family was concerned. For instance, when his father died, the show indicated he was off visiting his other children. Not true. He was cattin' around, and was visiting one of his girlfriends. He did it all the time, would just disappear for days or even weeks at a time.

I know this. I mean, I really know it, from a very reliable first hand source. There was also barely any mention of Michael's wife & kids. Aside from loving to gamble, we learned very little about his private life. This was no doubt part of the boundaries that were established in order to get the project made.

That said, I don't have a problem with it. I didn't expect the full documentary treatment. I enjoyed it for what it was - a puff piece about MJ and the Bulls championship run. And that's fine. Maybe someday someone else can do a deeper dive. But if they do, they'll have to do it without Michael's involvement or approval. He guards his image jealously. Here in Charlotte where he lives & owns the team, we see that more closely than most.
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post #515 of 551 Old 05-18-2020, 08:53 PM
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I don't disagree and I've basically said so. Keeping MJ was only the choice with hindsight as I said that ultimately would have made sense. Since no one has hindsight until later, I see why Krause wanted to blow up the team though I don't know why he antagonized Phil Jackson. As I mentioned earlier, MJ was not honest to himself about the probability of a 7th championship and that his best shots were lost when he went to play baseball.
Yes, he's not realistic. And maybe that is in part due to time smoothing over the rough patches of his memory and not recalling the increasingly difficult circumstances of the team at that time.

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In the end, MJ closed himself off to the world (and he obviously had to do it) so he achieved fame and glory but at a high cost. There have been others who wanted to be the best who sacrificed everything for that. In the end, it is really what divides the very good from the great but I've never held it against guys who want to be well rounded rather than single minded.
Like with most anything, there are both positive and negative aspects to any path you choose for yourself. Jordan seems to have experienced the extremes of both as a result of his life and the way he chose (or was compulsively compelled to) to live it.

Great achievement in others is inspiring for the rest of us, but ultimately not important for living a reasonably contented life. But those elite few among us who are incredibly driven and talented are needed to move the world forward for the rest of us. Speaking mostly in terms of science, medicine, etc., here, not sports so much.
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post #516 of 551 Old 05-18-2020, 09:45 PM
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Let's face it -- 'The Last Dance' was basically a puff-piece. Jordan may not have exercised any cuts, but it's pretty clear he put boundaries on what could be presented and how, particularly where his family was concerned. For instance, when his father died, the show indicated he was off visiting his other children. Not true. He was cattin' around, and was visiting one of his girlfriends. He did it all the time, would just disappear for days or even weeks at a time.

I know this. I mean, I really know it, from a very reliable first hand source. There was also barely any mention of Michael's wife & kids. Aside from loving to gamble, we learned very little about his private life. This was no doubt part of the boundaries that were established in order to get the project made.

That said, I don't have a problem with it. I didn't expect the full documentary treatment. I enjoyed it for what it was - a puff piece about MJ and the Bulls championship run. And that's fine. Maybe someday someone else can do a deeper dive. But if they do, they'll have to do it without Michael's involvement or approval. He guards his image jealously. Here in Charlotte where he lives & owns the team, we see that more closely than most.
Wow. What's your definition of a puff piece? There certainly is a bunch of stuff that shows MJ in a poor light. Yes, there was barely any mention of Jordan's family but is that because that's what you wanted this show to be about? The name of the show is The Last Dance and it focused upon the Bulls' final playoff run in a season they knew was their last with flashbacks to the previous seasons.

You wanted shocking revelations that entertainers who have tons of admiring female fans cheat on their wives? First hand information means someone who was actually there and saw it rather than someone in the organization who heard things.

Is Ken Burns the only guy that can do real documentaries?

Ken Burns' The Last Dance:

Narrator reads letter:

Dearest Lorilei,

I faced the fiercest opponent today. He had the most terrifying jump shot and moves around the basket. However, I found solace in the fact that he was a two-time cheating scoundrel. I shan't buy his shoes or drink his orange swill..

With fond thoughts from the war,

BJ

"Don't blame me -- I voted for Kodos." Homer Simpson
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post #517 of 551 Old 05-18-2020, 10:03 PM
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W

Is Ken Burns the only guy that can do real documentaries?

Ken Burns' The Last Dance:

Narrator reads letter:

Dearest Lorilei,

I faced the fiercest opponent today. He had the most terrifying jump shot and moves around the basket. However, I found solace in the fact that he was a two-time cheating scoundrel. I shan't buy his shoes or drink his orange swill..

With fond thoughts from the war,

BJ
If I were sipping a beverage, my desk would be wearing it right now, lol. Nicely done.
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post #518 of 551 Old 05-19-2020, 04:28 AM
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...What's your definition of a puff piece?..

With fond thoughts from the war,
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post #519 of 551 Old 05-19-2020, 05:39 AM
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Wow. What's your definition of a puff piece?
Yeah, sure it was. And as I said, I don't have a problem with that. It wasn't billed as a full, warts-and-all documentary. I'm just saying that describing it as a puff piece is not wrong. That's what it was. That's fine. Didn't I mention that I really enjoyed it?

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You wanted shocking revelations that entertainers who have tons of admiring female fans cheat on their wives? First hand information means someone who was actually there and saw it rather than someone in the organization who heard things.
No, I'm just pointing out that there were boundaries drawn that ordinarily wouldn't be there if it weren't a puff piece that depended on the subject's content approval, particularly around his family. James Jordan cheated on his wife, repeatedly. He was a serial philanderer, and that's why he died. He wouldn't have been out there sleeping on the side of the road that fateful night had he not been doing what he regularly did on the down-low.

And that's not just some salacious piece of information that's not pertinent to the story. The death of his father, who always wanted Michael to play baseball, was portrayed as one of the key factors in MJ leaving the Bulls for that 1.5 year stretch. It could be argued that absent that traumatic event, he might have stayed with the team and the Bulls might have won one or two more championships. And it happened because James was doing something Michael would prefer the world not know about. If this were a full documentary and not a puff piece, that might be a key factor regarding the subject's motivation.

And I did not hear that from anyone in "the organization". My source was higher, and closer, than that, which is why I'm certain about it. It was not merely a left-out fact, it was actually misrepresented to paint James, the father Michael adored, in a different light than the reality warranted. Boundaries.

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Is Ken Burns the only guy that can do real documentaries?
Nobody ever said that. But he has a valid point about this one.

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Ken Burns' The Last Dance:

Narrator reads letter:

Dearest Lorilei,

I faced the fiercest opponent today. He had the most terrifying jump shot and moves around the basket. However, I found solace in the fact that he was a two-time cheating scoundrel. I shan't buy his shoes or drink his orange swill..

With fond thoughts from the war,

BJ
Now that's funny.

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post #520 of 551 Old 05-19-2020, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I still think one of the all time greatest lines of trash talk was what Scottie Pippen told Karl Malone during the 1997 Finals (Sunday night game): "the Mailman doesn't deliver on Sunday"

all time classic...funny as hell...totally fits the moment...if he just came up with that on the fly and it wasn't practiced then he gets major props from me
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post #521 of 551 Old 05-19-2020, 07:16 AM
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Wow. What's your definition of a puff piece? There certainly is a bunch of stuff that shows MJ in a poor light. Yes, there was barely any mention of Jordan's family but is that because that's what you wanted this show to be about? The name of the show is The Last Dance and it focused upon the Bulls' final playoff run in a season they knew was their last with flashbacks to the previous seasons.

You wanted shocking revelations that entertainers who have tons of admiring female fans cheat on their wives? First hand information means someone who was actually there and saw it rather than someone in the organization who heard things.

Is Ken Burns the only guy that can do real documentaries?

Ken Burns' The Last Dance:

Narrator reads letter:

Dearest Lorilei,

I faced the fiercest opponent today. He had the most terrifying jump shot and moves around the basket. However, I found solace in the fact that he was a two-time cheating scoundrel. I shan't buy his shoes or drink his orange swill..

With fond thoughts from the war,

BJ
Hehe Sounds like "Captain" Andrew Luck.
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post #522 of 551 Old 05-19-2020, 08:20 AM
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no problem...I hope you keep your promise

You're now on the "C" list.
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post #523 of 551 Old 05-19-2020, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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You're now on the "C" list.
yes..the Champions List...
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post #524 of 551 Old 05-19-2020, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Horace Grant says Michael Jordan lied in 'Last Dance,' calls him 'snitch'

"It's only a grudge, man. I'm telling you, it was only a grudge. And I think he proved that during this so-called documentary. When if you say something about him, he's going to cut you off, he's going to try to destroy your character."..."I would say [it was] entertaining, but we know, who was there as teammates, that about 90% of it -- I don't know if I can say it on air, but B.S. in terms of the realness of it," Grant said. "It wasn't real -- because a lot of things [Jordan] said to some of his teammates, that his teammates went back at him. But all of that was kind of edited out of the documentary, if you want to call it a documentary."...

The interview concluded with Grant being asked why he repeatedly referred to "The Last Dance" as a "so-called documentary." Some have pointed to the fact that two of Jordan's closest confidantes, Estee Portnoy and Curtis Polk, were executive producers on the docuseries as an indication that Jordan had final say and creative control over the project. Director Jason Hehir has pushed back against that criticism, but Grant didn't hesitate to discuss what he believes to be a biased point of view in favor of Jordan

"When that so-called documentary is about one person, basically, and he has the last word on what's going to be put out there ... it's not a documentary," Grant said. "It's his narrative of what happens in the last, quote-unquote, dance. That's not a documentary, because a whole bunch of things was cut out, edited out. So that's why I call it a so-called documentary."...

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...e-calls-snitch

exactly right Horace...but I can already hear the excuses from the Jordan fanboys- Horace is unreliable, it's just sour grapes, he has an axe to grind etc
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post #525 of 551 Old 05-20-2020, 08:26 AM
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...exactly right Horace...but I can already hear the excuses from the Jordan fanboys- Horace is unreliable, it's just sour grapes, he has an axe to grind etc

afair, Horace Grant was a solid citizen during NBA career.
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afair, Horace Grant was a solid citizen during NBA career.
yup, plus he has 4 rings so it's not like he was some scrub
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I don't care to know anything about these athletes private lives, glad they mostly focused on basketball. Jordan was clearly a douche bag while he played but for most of his teammates it was worth it because he is the reason they have rings.

Notice that Jordan,Tiger,Gretzky and Brady all have tight bonds with their fathers, if only I did...
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Hall of Famer and longtime Utah Jazz coach Jerry Sloan dies

Sloan had Parkinson’s disease and Lewy body dementia...a former NBA player, Sloan was the Jazz’s coach for 23 seasons from 1988-2011 until he stepped down 54 games through his final season in 2011...the team won back-to-back Western Conference championships in 1996-97 and 1997-98 under his watch, though the Jazz and star duo Karl Malone and John Stockton famously lost to Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls in each of those NBA Finals trips...

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/longtim...143625829.html

Sloan was a great coach and will be missed...too bad he wasn't able to retire from the Jazz on his own terms...he quit half way into the 2011 after several confrontations with former Jazz player Deron Williams...Sloan felt that the Jazz were catering to Williams and was undermining his power so he quit...
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post #530 of 551 Old 05-22-2020, 09:55 PM
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"Don't blame me -- I voted for Kodos." Homer Simpson
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NBA Eyes Late-July Return at Disney World

The NBA is getting closer to a return, starting talks with The Walt Company about hosting the remainder of the season at the ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex in Orlando...

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...172514237.html

I guess $$ is what's motivating them to return to finish out the season...if it were me I would scrap the season and get ready for the next season...now if they re-start in July that means the next season will be delayed into December
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post #532 of 551 Old 05-23-2020, 02:04 PM
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If they do start again ,I hope they begin with the playoffs. Maybe they could have every team in the playoffs,seed them according to this seasons standings . It still would mess up next years start.
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post #533 of 551 Old 05-23-2020, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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If they do start again ,I hope they begin with the playoffs. Maybe they could have every team in the playoffs,seed them according to this seasons standings . It still would mess up next years start.
I hope they take this opportunity to try out the new re-seeding plan...seed teams 1-16 regardless of conference...if they're going to play all the games in Orlando then this would be the perfect time to test this out
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post #534 of 551 Old 05-23-2020, 03:13 PM
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If they do start again ,I hope they begin with the playoffs. Maybe they could have every team in the playoffs,seed them according to this seasons standings . It still would mess up next years start.
That was my feeling too. Then, the more I thought about it, they really will need a few games to get back into the flow. Some guys will be out of shape. I don't know how many games were remaining in the season, but it can't be that many. Might as well play them out. Let everybody get back on their A-games.

Now what they could do when the playoffs start is to maybe make the first series or two a best of 5, like they used to. That might cut down the number of games they'll need to play to get to the finals. Or it might now since there are typically a lot of sweep/blowouts in the first round anyway.

Maybe make the entire playoffs 5 game series? How about that?
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post #535 of 551 Old 05-26-2020, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Michael Jordan on tape: I didn’t want Isiah Thomas on Dream Team

Over the years, Jordan denied having any involvement in Thomas not making the Dream Team, the first American Olympic team to feature active NBA players...but sportswriter Jack McCallum revealed a past interview with Jordan on his podcast 'The Dream Team Tapes' that tells a much different story...

https://nypost.com/2020/05/26/michae...on-dream-team/

I wonder how Jordan is going to spin this?...the Last Dance is looking less like a 'documentary' every day and more of a Jordan sanctioned fairy tale
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post #536 of 551 Old 05-26-2020, 10:39 AM
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Michael Jordan on tape: I didn’t want Isiah Thomas on Dream Team

I wonder how Jordan is going to spin this?...the Last Dance is looking less like a 'documentary' every day and more of a Jordan sanctioned fairy tale
It was always a puff-piece, as we've discussed before. That's what happens when you give your subject editorial control and veto power. But it has the sheen, the look and the structure of a legit documentary. It's very well done, and I enjoyed it a lot, being a hoophead 'n all. But nobody should be under the impression this was a true documentary, or an unvarnished look at Michael Jordan the man during that dynastic run. It's an unabashed love letter to Michael Jordan the basketball player.
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post #537 of 551 Old 05-26-2020, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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It was always a puff-piece, as we've discussed before. That's what happens when you give your subject editorial control and veto power. But it has the sheen, the look and the structure of a legit documentary. It's very well done, and I enjoyed it a lot, being a hoophead 'n all. But nobody should be under the impression this was a true documentary, or an unvarnished look at Michael Jordan the man during that dynastic run. It's an unabashed love letter to Michael Jordan the basketball player.
yup...

Michael Jordan criticized again in ‘The Last Dance’ aftermath

Former NBA player and ESPN analyst Kendrick Perkins became one of the latest to speak out on how the ESPN documentary shed light on Michael Jordan bullying his teammates, who were often left being negatively portrayed at his expense...“When you look at ‘The Last Dance,’ the whole documentary, it made Michael Jordan look like a superhero, and it made everybody else look like a villain,” Perkins said last week on ESPN’s “The Jump.”

“At the end of the day, ‘The Last Dance’ was to praise Mike — which it should have been — but you didn’t have to tear down other people to praise your greatness, because your greatness alone speaks volumes for itself.”...

https://nypost.com/2020/05/25/michae...nce-aftermath/
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post #538 of 551 Old 05-26-2020, 10:55 AM
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Former NBA player and ESPN analyst Kendrick Perkins became one of the latest to speak out on how the ESPN documentary shed light on Michael Jordan bullying his teammates, who were often left being negatively portrayed at his expense...“When you look at ‘The Last Dance,’ the whole documentary, it made Michael Jordan look like a superhero, and it made everybody else look like a villain,” Perkins said last week on ESPN’s “The Jump.”

“At the end of the day, ‘The Last Dance’ was to praise Mike — which it should have been — but you didn’t have to tear down other people to praise your greatness, because your greatness alone speaks volumes for itself.”...
I don't know if I agree with Perkins on this. It didn't really make any of his teammates look bad, more like victims of his relentless drive. Scottie Pippen didn't look great when he sat out that final play, but Jordan wasn't even on the team at that time. Rodman looks like...Rodman. I doubt he cares one way or the other.

The only person who really looks bad is Jerry Krause. And he should; he broke up the band because of his own ego. But even his performance as a GM was still praised, even by Pippen who he shortchanged. Reinsdorf could probably have done with a little more criticism too, but he's still alive and was contributing interviews for the piece so I guess they gave him a pass.
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post #539 of 551 Old 05-26-2020, 12:02 PM
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I don't know if I agree with Perkins on this. It didn't really make any of his teammates look bad, more like victims of his relentless drive. Scottie Pippen didn't look great when he sat out that final play, but Jordan wasn't even on the team at that time. Rodman looks like...Rodman. I doubt he cares one way or the other.

The only person who really looks bad is Jerry Krause. And he should; he broke up the band because of his own ego. But even his performance as a GM was still praised, even by Pippen who he shortchanged. Reinsdorf could probably have done with a little more criticism too, but he's still alive and was contributing interviews for the piece so I guess they gave him a pass.
Watching the final 98 final, I was surprised to see Jerry Krause and Scotty Pippen in a big hug after the win.

I'll say again that I don't think it was a puff piece because (1) even though MJ was the focus, the doc was about the final season and leading up to it, (2) most of the footage had already been shot so it wasn't about MJ saying what could or could not be shot, it was about him vetoing the use of any of the footage already shot which he didn't (as far as it went with the team) along with other interviews which I don't believe MJ had any input into.

Its not like the Lance Armstrong piece which is mainly about this (in my opinion) despicable person and his history and his lack of remorse for his lies and hurting others to defend himself which is more a character study. The Last Dance isn't specifically a character study of MJ the person. It did open my eyes to how he acted to teammates and how he had to stay separate from everyone for most of the time. I don't think it showed MJ in a particularly great light.

I thought the teammates came off well. I felt bad for Scott Burrell and Jud Buechler. They gave Steve Kerr a lot of time especially about 97 but no one saw that Buechler hit a very big 3 towards the end of the final game. I didn't remember that Kerr was really instrumental in getting the Bulls past the Pacers in game 7.

I also watched the whole game 6 of 1998 and MJ did everything that game and he was exhausted. Almost no one else had a good game and Pippen was very limited due to his back injury.

Finally, watching several of the games really solved the sometimes whining about MJ pushing off on Byron Russell for the final shot. That was nothing. I watched Reggie Miller run directly into MJ in the earlier series to get free for his game winning three and he did that on purpose and said so. Both Stockton and Hornacek pushed defenders into screens to get free (Stockton was notorious for shoving defenders). Maybe in today's game there would be a question about pushing off but back then, what MJ did was nothing compared to what everyone else was doing legally in other plays.

"Don't blame me -- I voted for Kodos." Homer Simpson
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post #540 of 551 Old 05-28-2020, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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not NBA related but I think this is pretty cool...Bruce Lee is getting a 30-for-30 special...

ESPN released the trailer for their new documentary Be Water, which explores Lee's life, career, and legacy as an icon of film and martial arts...the doc delves into Lee's childhood in Hong Kong, his attempt to break into Hollywood, and his eventual ascendancy to stardom with just a handful of films before his untimely death in 1973...it also chronicles the struggles Lee faced to win over American audiences as an Asian leading man...premieres on Sunday, June 7th at 9pm ET on ESPN...

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