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post #181 of 230 Old 11-25-2019, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
I've already made those other gear choices. But I want to route everything through the AVR and use the TV as a monitor as I've always done. Besides, from what I hear, dedicated streaming devices have better operating systems, more apps available, and keep everything updated more than the other devices in the chain.

I had actually given a lot of thought to not even bothering with updating the AVR and using the TV (LG OLEDC9) to send 6 channel audio back down to it via an optical cable. But then I caught the Atmos bug. So my new receiver (Denon X3600H) is capable of 5.2.4 with all internal amplifiers. So weird how when you get the update disease, it tends to metastasize beyond its original boundaries.

If you're intending to get your Atmos via streaming then you're limited to the DD+/Atmos version (or transcoded to the PCM-based MAT 2.0 Atmos version for some devices) since thats what every streaming service is limited to at this time - and if thats the case you'll want to use the C9's internal apps (that are more functional than their streaming device counterparts in general, and tend to provide slightly better visual quality) using HDMI/ARC (could use eARC too, though no real benefit for your configuration) to the receiver to pass the DD+/Atmos and other audio (optical is going to be limited to DD/DTS).



Use a streaming device for those apps not available internally (via the LG Store) or as a backup for the internal apps.
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post #182 of 230 Old 11-25-2019, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post
i have an AppleTV 4K, a Roku Ultra, and a Fire Stick 4K. Without a doubt I use the ATV 99% of the time. It just works for everything. DV, HDR10, plain UHD, 5.1, and Atmos. The only thing I haven’t seen out of it yet is HLG. But then I haven’t seen it yet out of my other devices either. My Vizio allows HLG, I tested that with a USB drive. My Denon allows it, so the firmware updates say. I’ve just not seen a source yet, streamable, that has content that actually works.

Your Roku Ultra can output HLG (support added about a year ago) - you can either test it with YouTube (version 1.0 build 91000100 or later) - search for "HLG HDR", or, you can use RMP (Roku Media Player) to playback an HLG-encoded file (such as https://4kmedia.org/lg-cymatic-jazz-...g-uhd-4k-demo/) either via a UPnP/DLNA server or USB.


Either of those methods will work to test your Roku HLG support with your TV.
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post #183 of 230 Old 11-25-2019, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by LG8600User View Post
If you're intending to get your Atmos via streaming then you're limited to the DD+/Atmos version (or transcoded to the PCM-based MAT 2.0 Atmos version for some devices) since thats what every streaming service is limited to at this time - and if thats the case you'll want to use the C9's internal apps (that are more functional than their streaming device counterparts in general, and tend to provide slightly better visual quality) using HDMI/ARC (could use eARC too, though no real benefit for your configuration) to the receiver to pass the DD+/Atmos and other audio (optical is going to be limited to DD/DTS).



Use a streaming device for those apps not available internally (via the LG Store) or as a backup for the internal apps.
So what you're saying is that for the most common group of streaming content providers - Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Disney+, HBO Max, CBS AA, etc. - there is no advantage, and indeed perhaps a disadvantage if you're after the very best PQ, in using a dedicated streaming device as opposed to using the LG's internal apps and it's own OS? And that the only real advantage in using a streamer is access to more apps?

Well. That's different.
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post #184 of 230 Old 11-25-2019, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
So what you're saying is that for the most common group of streaming content providers - Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Disney+, HBO Max, CBS AA, etc. - there is no advantage, and indeed perhaps a disadvantage if you're after the very best PQ, in using a dedicated streaming device as opposed to using the LG's internal apps and it's own OS? And that the only real advantage in using a streamer is access to more apps?



Well. That's different.


Unless there is a difference in app performance (for instance currently LGs Disney+ app is limited to 2.0 audio) then you’d be for the most part correct. Audio wise you’ll be getting the same thing if they both have Atmos. PQ can differ between internal and device apps, but then we are normally picking nits.
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post #185 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 12:18 PM
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Those aren't the only two possibilities.

IMO the ATV offers an overall better experience than the Rokus and FireTVs and XBoxes and gaming systems I've used. Its performance is robust (4k HDR streams load fully and fast), it's fully featured, highly configurable, and has a slick interface. It seems to offer the highest-quality available version of more things than other streamers do.

But it's more expensive than its competitors, but whether its refinement is worth money to you may have nothing to do with your feelings about Apple. I'm a Windows and Android guy myself, but Apple makes the best tablets, so I use iPads. I can afford to pay a little extra for a better streaming device if it offers a real benefit, and the ATV seems to.
What is 'better' ? I have a Fire Stick 4K, purchased for $20 that loads any 4K title instantly and plays it just fine. I prefer the interface to that of Apple and I prefer the remote.

If I was to spend $200 I'd get the new Shield and have a vastly more capable streamer. But even that is just mildly better than the FireStick 4K. IMO the only reason to get ATV is if you want to use Apple's ecosystem and already use their devices. I hate iTunes and being locked in.
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post #186 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 12:27 PM
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If I was to spend $200 I'd get the new Shield and have a vastly more capable streamer. But even that is just mildly better than the FireStick 4K. IMO the only reason to get ATV is if you want to use Apple's ecosystem and already use their devices. I hate iTunes and being locked in.
We're all appled-up. Phones, iPad & MacBook. But I don't know enough about the ATV to know if there would be any advantage to owning one beyond just as a TV streamer. Maybe someone who does could chime it?
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post #187 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
We're all appled-up. Phones, iPad & MacBook. But I don't know enough about the ATV to know if there would be any advantage to owning one beyond just as a TV streamer. Maybe someone who does could chime it?
In that case its a better fit for you. I imagine you'd be able to use iPhone as remote, use Siri across devices, cast from MacBook etc.
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post #188 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 12:56 PM
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In that case its a better fit for you. I imagine you'd be able to use iPhone as remote, use Siri across devices, cast from MacBook etc.
You can also use it as you hub for HomeKit
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post #189 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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The Mandalorian with fake HDR.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...nalysis-finds/

So either Disney doesn't want to spend the time or the money to properly grade The Mandalorian.

It's clear that they're not spending as much as other streaming services on the original content. I can understand if they're skipping it because of time. Maybe they're editing and doing post-production on each episode right up to the time they released them.

If they're serious, at least at the end of the season, they could re-grade the episodes for the permanent library.

But if they're cutting corners for cost reasons, then they won't and will continue this practice.

There should be no excuses for not having proper HDR on the movies. Presumably they've already spent the money to grade them for the home video release to iTunes and Vudu. I know they're not doing DV grading on the UHD BD releases.
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post #190 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
The Mandalorian with fake HDR.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...nalysis-finds/

So either Disney doesn't want to spend the time or the money to properly grade The Mandalorian.
It's not just The Mandalorian. The 4k streaming versions of the original Star Wars trilogy on Disney+ are also so-called "fake HDR."

Quote:
It's clear that they're not spending as much as other streaming services on the original content.
I don't think the problem is money so much as time. The Mandalorian is budgeted at about $12.5 million per episode, and the upcoming new Marvel live-action shows will be $25 million an episode each. That's an extraordinary amount of money to spend on a TV series.

The issue is that Disney is in a huge time crunch to produce as much content as possible as quickly as possible, and they're doing a rush job on some of the technical details like HDR grading and Atmos sound mixes.

On top of that, the people currently in charge of the Star Wars franchise have some fairly bad ideas about what they want their content to look like. The look of The Mandalorian is pretty consistent with the last few Stars Wars movies, which all had elevated black levels and flat contrast. For whatever reason, that's a look that someone at Lucasfilm likes.

It's possible that they're trying to optimize their movies and shows for viewing on tablet and smartphone screens that have poor contrast, just as they've been compressing the dynamics of their soundtracks to play better through soundbars and earbuds.

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Television and Home Theater Writer/Editor, Primetimer.com

My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers, whoever they may be.
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post #191 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow incredible budget numbers.
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post #192 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 03:17 PM
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For $6.99 a month, what do you want ..

"The Mandalorian" still looks pretty durn good ..
I WANT MORE and NTTD like this.

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post #193 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
For $6.99 a month, what do you want ..

"The Mandalorian" still looks pretty durn good ..
Most subscribers won’t care.

But it’s another way that HT enthusiasts are being marginalized.
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post #194 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 03:36 PM
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Most subscribers won’t care.

But it’s another way that HT enthusiasts are being marginalized.
Most folks still rent DVD's .. the way I read the article you posted, it seems like a bit of false advertising ..

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post #195 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 05:42 PM
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Most folks still rent DVD's
What, really?
I honestly cannot remember the last time I rented a DVD. I'm not sure where I could even go to do that anymore.

Since Netflix happened (in the 90's) I used their disc service. And not long after their streaming started we dropped disc altogether.


I suppose there's Redbox, I've only used that for the occasional game rental. I really can't see any reason to rent DVDs any more when you can rent a streaming copy.
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post #196 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Where would you rent DVDs or any media now these days?

Those Red Box kiosks don't look that busy.

I think people are just settling for subscriptions to Netflix and other streaming services now.

Or maybe they pay for on demand from cable TV or maybe downloadable rentals on iTunes or Amazon.
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post #197 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by NTTD View Post
What, really?
I honestly cannot remember the last time I rented a DVD. I'm not sure where I could even go to do that anymore.

Since Netflix happened (in the 90's) I used their disc service. And not long after their streaming started we dropped disc altogether.


I suppose there's Redbox, I've only used that for the occasional game rental. I really can't see any reason to rent DVDs any more when you can rent a streaming copy.


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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Where would you rent DVDs or any media now these days?



Those Red Box kiosks don't look that busy.



I think people are just settling for subscriptions to Netflix and other streaming services now.



Or maybe they pay for on demand from cable TV or maybe downloadable rentals on iTunes or Amazon.


Netflix still rents discs and there is Red Box.


https://www.mediaplaynews.com/redbox...-market-share/
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post #198 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
It's not just The Mandalorian. The 4k streaming versions of the original Star Wars trilogy on Disney+ are also so-called "fake HDR."







I don't think the problem is money so much as time. The Mandalorian is budgeted at about $12.5 million per episode, and the upcoming new Marvel live-action shows will be $25 million an episode each. That's an extraordinary amount of money to spend on a TV series.



The issue is that Disney is in a huge time crunch to produce as much content as possible as quickly as possible, and they're doing a rush job on some of the technical details like HDR grading and Atmos sound mixes.



On top of that, the people currently in charge of the Star Wars franchise have some fairly bad ideas about what they want their content to look like. The look of The Mandalorian is pretty consistent with the last few Stars Wars movies, which all had elevated black levels and flat contrast. For whatever reason, that's a look that someone at Lucasfilm likes.



It's possible that they're trying to optimize their movies and shows for viewing on tablet and smartphone screens that have poor contrast, just as they've been compressing the dynamics of their soundtracks to play better through soundbars and earbuds.


Thankfully JJ is at the head of IX as TFA looks excellent


I wouldn’t put the “blame” on Disney squarely as we are just shooting darts. It seems what was released was what the directors/DPs wanted. While I know it can be disappointing, not everything will be a showcase and just like with previous formats HDR/WCG and other aspects will be used differently by “everyone”.
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post #199 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 09:47 PM
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Netflix still rents discs and there is Red Box.
Netflix sold off it's disk rental division to DVD.com. They're running that part of the business now, but still under Netflix's name, using the same red envelopes, etc. We have the one disk out at a time, 2 disks a month plan. But after we go 4K in a couple of weeks, with a UHD player, we're going to have to upgrade the Netflix streaming plan. So we'll be dropping the disk plan; try to net out the same monthly.

I called RedBox and asked them if they rented UHD disks and was told yes, but only in certain markets, major metropolitan areas. Charlotte don't qualify. So I need to find a service where I can rent out BD and UHD disks every now & then. I'd rather do it by the disk than have a monthly plan.
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post #200 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 10:24 PM
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^ Netflix still owns the dvd service, they just operate it as a separate division, hence the dvd.com rebranding.

Dazed and confused over high tech.

Sigh...Concrap. The Internet Overlord Cometh
They're not com-tastic!
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post #201 of 230 Old 11-26-2019, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
Netflix sold off it's disk rental division to DVD.com. They're running that part of the business now, but still under Netflix's name, using the same red envelopes, etc. We have the one disk out at a time, 2 disks a month plan. But after we go 4K in a couple of weeks, with a UHD player, we're going to have to upgrade the Netflix streaming plan. So we'll be dropping the disk plan; try to net out the same monthly.



I called RedBox and asked them if they rented UHD disks and was told yes, but only in certain markets, major metropolitan areas. Charlotte don't qualify. So I need to find a service where I can rent out BD and UHD disks every now & then. I'd rather do it by the disk than have a monthly plan.


I know there is at least one online service that people use here (may want to check out the 4K HDR master thread) to rent UHDBRs. RedBox rollout has been much too small, but it’s understandable seeing the size of the market.
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post #202 of 230 Old 11-27-2019, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
I called RedBox and asked them if they rented UHD disks and was told yes, but only in certain markets, major metropolitan areas. Charlotte don't qualify. So I need to find a service where I can rent out BD and UHD disks every now & then. I'd rather do it by the disk than have a monthly plan.
https://www.store-3d-blurayrental.com/
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post #203 of 230 Old 11-27-2019, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by NTTD View Post
What, really?
I honestly cannot remember the last time I rented a DVD. I'm not sure where I could even go to do that anymore.

Since Netflix happened (in the 90's) I used their disc service. And not long after their streaming started we dropped disc altogether.
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Where would you rent DVDs or any media now these days?

Those Red Box kiosks don't look that busy.
For quite a few years, on various threads, one of my standard commentaries was "The Disk will Die at some point and become a niche market" .. some, not all, replies from other Posters would poo poo that idea, some would agree .. as the Streaming delivery infrastructure continued to improve, compression algorithms also evolved, and so, here we are ..

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/media/a...ession-primer/

I maintain that we will continue to evolve (or de-volve depending on how you look at it) until physical media becomes much like vinyl .. I think that even many of the die hard Video / Audio hobbyists have come to appreciate how far the Tech has come .. IMO, 5G will only accelerate things ..

At my age of 75, I no longer have the eyesight nor the hearing of a younger person, so I can't fully appreciate the PQ / SQ that many streaming programs are now able to offer .. however, I am still acute enough to notice improvements ..

I don't buy much physical media these days, but I do still rent a BD or a UHD for the big Hollywood production material, mainly .. otherwise, streaming is just fine by me .. what I share with younger folks is, it's convenient, you don't have to leave the house to get it, and, it just keeps getting better and better .. I think it's way past the point of "just being good enough" IOW ..

I'll add :: if Providers can eventually bring the cost down on a PPV new release stream to that magical $1.50 - $2.00 cost, Redbox and the rest may as well throw in the towel ..

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post #204 of 230 Old 11-27-2019, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
For quite a few years, on various threads, one of my standard commentaries was "The Disk will Die at some point and become a niche market" .. some, not all, replies from other Posters would poo poo that idea, some would agree .. as the Streaming delivery infrastructure continued to improve, compression algorithms also evolved, and so, here we are ..

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/media/a...ession-primer/

I maintain that we will continue to evolve (or de-volve depending on how you look at it) until physical media becomes much like vinyl .. I think that even many of the die hard Video / Audio hobbyists have come to appreciate how far the Tech has come .. IMO, 5G will only accelerate things ..

At my age of 75, I no longer have the eyesight nor the hearing of a younger person, so I can't fully appreciate the PQ / SQ that many streaming programs are now able to offer .. however, I am still acute enough to notice improvements ..

I don't buy much physical media these days, but I do still rent a BD or a UHD for the big Hollywood production material, mainly .. otherwise, streaming is just fine by me .. what I share with younger folks is, it's convenient, you don't have to leave the house to get it, and, it just keeps getting better and better .. I think it's way past the point of "just being good enough" IOW ..

I'll add :: if Providers can eventually bring the cost down on a PPV new release stream to that magical $1.50 - $2.00 cost, Redbox and the rest may as well throw in the towel ..
Yes discs are niche.
I still buy discs for movies that fit specific criteria; they are the type of movie that benefit from being viewed at the highest video and audio resolution, and we will watch them repeatedly, otherwise we stream them when they're available on one of our services or buy the streaming "copy".



However I still see no need to rent physical media, as streaming rental is sufficient for those one-off views.



I still find it hard to buy your comment that "Most folks still rent DVD's" though I understand my experience may not reflect everyone's.
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post #205 of 230 Old 11-27-2019, 10:05 AM
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I still find it hard to buy your comment that "Most folks still rent DVD's" though I understand my experience may not reflect everyone's.
While this chart reflects sales, I believe the same correlation could be made on rentals ::


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post #206 of 230 Old 11-27-2019, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I would still be interested in buying and renting UHD BDs when I eventually get UHD HDR TV.

However, the trends are not promising. For one thing, it seems UHD BD players are no longer being developed or that there's much innovation going on.

So you have to wonder about studio support long term.

As more and more of their home video revenues come from streaming, it seems likely that they will just switch to streaming only. Also doesn't help that some releases only have DV on streams or downloads, not on the disc releases.
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post #207 of 230 Old 11-27-2019, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
I would still be interested in buying and renting UHD BDs when I eventually get UHD HDR TV.

However, the trends are not promising. For one thing, it seems UHD BD players are no longer being developed or that there's much innovation going on.

So you have to wonder about studio support long term.

As more and more of their home video revenues come from streaming, it seems likely that they will just switch to streaming only. Also doesn't help that some releases only have DV on streams or downloads, not on the disc releases.
Well, IMO, players may be the biggest issue going forward .. I still think the disk format will exist, the same way vinyl still exists .. it will just be a more boutique type market .. and, possibly, be more expensive, especially in 4K/UHD ..

Then again, when a format dies, it generally dies pretty quick .. having lived thru and owned about every format there ever was, I've watched it happen ..

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Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
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post #208 of 230 Old 11-27-2019, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
I would still be interested in buying and renting UHD BDs when I eventually get UHD HDR TV.

However, the trends are not promising. For one thing, it seems UHD BD players are no longer being developed or that there's much innovation going on.

So you have to wonder about studio support long term.

As more and more of their home video revenues come from streaming, it seems likely that they will just switch to streaming only. Also doesn't help that some releases only have DV on streams or downloads, not on the disc releases.
Sony has saved physical media for at least the next 5-7 years with their recent announcement that the PS5 would include a 4K Blu-ray player...that is HUGE news for fans of physical media...we will definitely see an uptick in sales of discs
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post #209 of 230 Old 11-28-2019, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
We have the one disk out at a time, 2 disks a month plan. But after we go 4K in a couple of weeks, with a UHD player, we're going to have to upgrade the Netflix streaming plan. So we'll be dropping the disk plan; try to net out the same monthly.
I would drop the discs and only do streaming if their streaming inventory included every movie or series out there, but it doesn't. Far from it. Most new movie releases aren't streamed. This is why I still subscribe to one disc at a time.
The vast majority of what I stream on Netflix is their original series.
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post #210 of 230 Old 11-28-2019, 02:37 PM
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Disk format will die when hardcore AV enthusiasts (we here) are too small to matter. Already most trends show disc sales declining and people prefer streaming.

Although most people are morons - they think they need to stream 4K on their ****ty little tablets and 50" tv's 10 ft away with crappy soundbars, and the actual streaming quality of these services is no better than 720p with compressed audio.
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