Super Bowl LIV in 4K Advance Discussion Thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 157 Old 12-18-2019, 11:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Super Bowl LIV in 4K Advance Discussion Thread

*******************************************
*** MODERATOR NOTE: This thread has been split off from the TNF in 4K thread ****

Fox SB site:
https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/super-bowl-2020

Watch the Super Bowl in 4K Ultra HD when you create a profile

Stream the 49ers v. Chiefs for FREE on the FOX Sports APP and FOXsports.com

Fox SB site FAQ:
https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/super-bowl-2020#sb-faqs

Q: How can I watch the Super Bowl live stream?
Watch Super Bowl 2020 on FOXSports.com or stream it live by downloading the FOX Sports and FOX NOW apps. Create your profile for the best experience.

https://help.fox.com/fox/s/article/C...-Bowl-for-free

Q: What devices can stream Super Bowl LIV?

You can stream Super Bowl LIV on all your favorite devices – including supported living room devices, smartphones, tablets, and computers.
  • AppleTV (tvOS 12 or above)
  • Roku
  • Fire TV streaming devices and smart TVs
  • Android TV
  • Xbox One
  • Samsung Tizen Smart TVs (2017 through 2020 Smart TV models)
  • iPhone / iPad (iOS 11 or above)
  • Android Phone/Tablet (OS 5.1 or above)
  • Computer (various browsers)
Please update your device to the latest version of the FOX Sports app for the best experience.

https://help.fox.com/fox/s/article/H...the-Super-Bowl

Q: What is required to stream the Super Bowl in 4K Ultra HD with HDR?
You will need a supported living room device:
  • Roku (including Roku Premiere, Roku Premiere+, Roku Streaming Stick+, Roku Ultra 4K/UHD TV models with Roku OS built-in)
  • Amazon FireTV 4K
Additionally, you will need a 4K TV with HDR10 support, a compatible HDMI cable, and a high-speed internet connection of at least 25 Mbps or higher.

https://help.fox.com/s/article/Which...UHD-compatible

Q: Can I watch Super Bowl LIV on my AppleTV 4K?
Yes – Super Bowl LIV will be available on AppleTV 4K devices in 4K quality and Standard Dynamic Range (SDR). A 4K TV, compatible HDMI cable, and a high-speed internet connection of at least 25 Mbps or higher is also required.

https://help.fox.com/s/article/Which...UHD-compatible

Q: Is the entire Super Bowl in 4K Ultra HD and HDR?
For the first time ever, FOX Sports is delivering Super Bowl 2020 in 4K Ultra High Definition (UHD) and High Dynamic Range (HDR). On Super Bowl game day, UHD/HDR coverage will begin at 2pm ET with the FOX NFL KICKOFF SHOW and will continue thru the game and post show. You can even watch the Pepsi Super Bowl LIV Halftime Show in UHD and HDR. With more pixels, improved color, and better contrast, get ready for an unprecedented Super Bowl experience.

Additional 4K info:
https://help.fox.com/fox/s/article/I-am-having-trouble-watching-4K-UHD-what-can-I-do

Casting info:

Q: Will I be able to cast the Super Bowl?
Casting using Google Chromecast will be available for the Super Bowl on Apple and Android devices using the FOX Now app, FOX Sports app, FOXSports.com, and FOX.com.

Airplay is not supported.

https://help.fox.com/fox/s/article/W...the-Super-Bowl

Q: What do I need to cast the Super Bowl?

Chromecast is available with the FOX NOW app and the FOX Sports app on Android smartphones and tablets, and iPhones and iPads as well as on FOX.com and FOXSports.com

App requirements:
FOX Sports app v4.11 or higher

Mobile devices operating system (OS) requirements:
Android 6.0 (Marshmallow) and higher
iOS 11.0 and higher

Supported browsers:
Supported browsers

Hardware requirements:
Chromecast (3rd generation)

Important:
The length of your content, your Internet service provider's network availability over time and other factors can impact your Internet speed and therefore Chromecast’s ability to show content in the best possible resolution.

https://help.fox.com/fox/s/article/W...the-Super-Bowl

FuboTV 4k:

How to Stream Super Bowl LIV in 4K with fuboTV

To view ultra-high definition and high dynamic range content, subscribers must have a 4K HDR-enabled television, HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 compatible cable and run the fuboTV app on a streaming device that supports the formats.

Bandwidth speeds of 30Mbps-40Mbps or higher are recommended. 4K HDR-capable TVs may also need calibration to present the content correctly.

4K HDR Supported Devices
Apple TV 4K
Chromecast Ultra
FireTV 4K
FireTV Cube
Roku Premier
Roku Premier+
Roku Ultra
Android Phones with HDR10 Displays
Huawei Mate 10 Pro
Huawei P20
LG V30
Razer Phone
Samsung Galaxy Note 8
Samsung Galaxy Tab S3
Samsung Galaxy S9/S9+
Sony Xperia XZ Premium
Sony Xperia XZ1
Sony Xperia XZ2

Thanks to @dtv757 for compiling the above.

END MODERATOR NOTE
*****************************************
https://www.sporttechie.com/fox-spor...tion-broadcast

"Fox Sports executives announced on Tuesday that Super Bowl LIV on Feb. 2, 2020 will be broadcast in ultra-high definition (UHD) and shot at 1080p high-dynamic range (HDR).

Speaking at the Sports Video Group Summit on Tuesday in New York, Fox Sports executives Michael Davies and Kevin Callahan revealed the plan to produce all of Super Bowl Sunday’s live content from Miami in the 1080p HDR format, including the on-location studio set and halftime show.

“Sometimes UHD is used interchangeably with 4K, but there are a lot of good reasons that 4K winds up being not only technically more difficult-slash-impossible to do a show of this size but also there are some real reasons why sports in general look better in 1080p versus being shot natively in 4K,” said Davies, the SVP of field and technical operations.

At 60 frames per second, 4K suffers from “pixel offset,” he added. “The more frames you get, the more times the refresh happens so that if you’re panning from left to right the pixels will not blur quite as much. At 60 frames [per second], with 4K you’ll get more motion blur in action scenes.”

Fox Sports broadcast its slate of NFL Thursday Night Football games as well as its MLB American League Championship Series in the same 1080p HDR format. (Those broadcasts were unconverted to 4K, as will be the Super Bowl.) Callahan, the network’s director of technical operations, estimated that only 50,000 viewers would have the necessary equipment to consume the Super Bowl in UHD compared to the more than one hundred million viewers who would see standard high-definition. “We still must remember that, while it’s all well and good that we are doing this in UHD, very few people will be seeing it that way,” Davies said.

Fox plans to deploy at least 20 high-frame-rate cameras for the Super Bowl and three SkyCams—two inside Hard Rock Stadium and one outside. One of the in-venue SkyCams would be at a higher-than-usual elevation, tethered to the stadium’s unique spires."

Sure hope they get that 5.1 audio working on the streaming side, along with increased 4K device support (*As of 1/26 neither of these two has happened*)

More details to follow...
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Last edited by LG8600User; Today at 07:13 AM. Reason: Added latest casting info from Fox's support site
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post #2 of 157 Old 12-20-2019, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post
It really isn't about the equipment and infrastructure, it's about the number of viewers that will actually watch it in 4K HDR. That number currently doesn't make financial sense to upgrade everything. Not to mention, the local affiliates are going to take the 720p feed for their commercial insertion. Until ATSC 3.0 takes off, it's not really going to change.

Though if the networks were smart, they'd skip 4K and jump straight to 8K. Downconvert to 4K, and you're also ready for 8K down the line.

Which is why the "only 50,000 viewers have the necessary equipment" (where is this # from?) comment is interesting - thats a huge understatement of the installed 4K/HDR-capable consumer base (MVPD and streamers) - clearly someone is rationalizing the lack of upgrade expenditure.


But since you are mentioning going to 8K and skipping 4K, there's this:





The point is made there that the Japanese went to 8Kp120 in order to avoid the downsides of 4Kp60 pixel-offset - which is exactly what sports broadcasters should be doing.


..and perhaps what FoxSports is intending/doing in their incremental "4K-to-Consumer" approach: skipping 4K cams, holding off to upgrade to more expensive 8KHDR cams (price drop over time), meanwhile get the 4K production/distribution infrastructure in place (increase MVPD/streamer platform uptake) so its ready to go once they do upgrade to 8KHDR cams, etc.


Overall its a pretty rational business decision/approach.
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post #3 of 157 Old 12-20-2019, 01:43 AM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 157 Old 12-20-2019, 01:50 AM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 157 Old 12-20-2019, 04:34 AM
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I'm glad fox sports is the 1st to do the Super bowl in "4K" !!

Thanks fox all the events they do in "4K"

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post #6 of 157 Old 12-20-2019, 11:42 AM
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I'm glad fox sports is the 1st to do the Super bowl in "4K" !!
I would much prefer if NBC or CBS was the first network to broadcast the SB in 4K...I'm guessing that would look spectacular...CBS Masters coverage in 4K I hear is pretty stunning and NBC has top notch production values
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post #7 of 157 Old 12-20-2019, 12:45 PM
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I guess I'm glad that any network is finally going to present the Super Bowl in 4K!

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post #8 of 157 Old 12-20-2019, 01:12 PM
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I would much prefer if NBC or CBS was the first network to broadcast the SB in 4K...I'm guessing that would look spectacular...CBS Masters coverage in 4K I hear is pretty stunning and NBC has top notch production values
I'm personally not a CBS fan . The only thing that cbs owns that I like is star trek but they are charging for it -_-

I personally perfer fox sports

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post #9 of 157 Old 12-21-2019, 12:35 PM
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Did Fox ever enable HDR on the Fire Stick?
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post #10 of 157 Old 12-21-2019, 12:47 PM
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Did Fox ever enable HDR on the Fire Stick?
Yes

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post #11 of 157 Old 12-21-2019, 01:47 PM
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Is it HDR10 or HLG through the Fire Stick?
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post #12 of 157 Old 12-21-2019, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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is it hdr10 or hlg through the fire stick?
It's HDR10.
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post #13 of 157 Old 12-22-2019, 03:57 AM
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I'm just glad we don't have to suffer through another hideous 720p Fox Super Bowl. Fox's Super Bowls are always the worst looking by far because of their awful 720p broadcasting format. I don't really care about the handegg part of the Super Bowl but I always enjoy the halftime performances and annoyingly, the years Fox has gotten the Super Bowl has often correlated with years that the Super Bowl had some of its best halftime performers!

Exciting news that the curse of Fox is being lifted this year. Looking forward to Shakira and J-Lo in 4K!!
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post #14 of 157 Old 12-23-2019, 12:46 AM
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I'm just glad we don't have to suffer through another hideous 720p Fox Super Bowl. Fox's Super Bowls are always the worst looking by far because of their awful 720p broadcasting format. I don't really care about the handegg part of the Super Bowl but I always enjoy the halftime performances and annoyingly, the years Fox has gotten the Super Bowl has often correlated with years that the Super Bowl had some of its best halftime performers!

Exciting news that the curse of Fox is being lifted this year. Looking forward to Shakira and J-Lo in 4K!!
I'm looking forward to watching them dance because they are both hot... but neither one of them can sing esp not J-Lo.
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post #15 of 157 Old 12-23-2019, 08:15 AM
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I'm looking forward to watching them dance because they are both hot... but neither one of them can sing esp not J-Lo.

Shakira can sing and dance, J Lo as a singer is a great dancer. I concur about the heat.
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post #16 of 157 Old 12-26-2019, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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4K/HDR Superbowl: Free Watching

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/super-bowl-2020

"Watch the Super Bowl in 4K Ultra HD when you create a profile"

"Stream the game in UHD and HDR for FREE on FOXSports.com or the FOX Sports App."

"Q: Which devices stream the Super Bowl in 4K?

Fire TV requires app v3.20, Fire TV (GEN 2 and 3), Fire TV Edition & Stick 4K models. Apple TV 4K (Apple TV GEN 5), Apple TV app v3.16 and tvOS 12 or above. Roku requires app v3.16 or above, Roku Premiere, Roku Premiere+, Roku Streaming Stick+, Roku Ultra 4K/UHD TV models with Roku OS built-in"
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post #17 of 157 Old 12-31-2019, 12:39 PM
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Is this going to be broadcast via normal cable TV in 4k, as in I can get it on FOX on my Xfinity 4k box? Or do I need to buy a Fire TV or Apple TV 4K or a Roku 4k?
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post #18 of 157 Old 12-31-2019, 12:58 PM
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Is this going to be broadcast via normal cable TV in 4k, as in I can get it on FOX on my Xfinity 4k box? Or do I need to buy a Fire TV or Apple TV 4K or a Roku 4k?
Not sure about xfinity as they did not have the NFL games in 4k this past season.

But Optimum/altice and fubo have the event(super bowl in 4k) listed on their website

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post #19 of 157 Old 01-01-2020, 04:21 PM
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Not sure about xfinity as they did not have the NFL games in 4k this past season.

But Optimum/altice and fubo have the event(super bowl in 4k) listed on their website

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what about the ad's? and the local ad's?
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post #20 of 157 Old 01-02-2020, 08:27 AM
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what about the ad's? and the local ad's?
I was wondering the same thing. The ads are almost as big as the game itself.
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post #21 of 157 Old 01-02-2020, 11:23 AM
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what about the ad's? and the local ad's?


If they don’t show ads like they have on the NCAAF games that would be a disaster. To my knowledge only NBC has shown ads during a 4K program this year..


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post #22 of 157 Old 01-02-2020, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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If they don’t show ads like they have on the NCAAF games that would be a disaster. To my knowledge only NBC has shown ads during a 4K program this year..


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Not sure many would describe not seeing commercials/ads as being "a disaster", regardless, none of the ALCS/TNF/previous 4K games has had ads.


If you really want/need the SB commercials, you can always switch over to your MVPD (Cable/Sat/OTA/etc) during the commercial breaks for full satisfaction...
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post #23 of 157 Old 01-02-2020, 04:12 PM
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The ads over these last years haven’t been all that great anyway. As BB once sang, The Thrill is Gone!
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post #24 of 157 Old 01-03-2020, 05:49 AM
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The ads over these last years haven’t been all that great anyway. As BB once sang, The Thrill is Gone!
Or record the SB and FF to each commercial and laugh!!!!!!!!!! Love my TIVO

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post #25 of 157 Old 01-03-2020, 07:59 AM
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I watched a few minutes of the Illinois-Michigan State game last night via the Fox Sports app on my TCL 5 series, which supports HDR. While the resolution looked good and the bitrate was stable, the picture seemed rather dark for my taste. I noticed the same thing with the last TNF NFL game (the only TNF game I watched). I looked at the HDR picture settings and nothing had been changed. All of the other HDR content I own looks great, whether it be streaming or Blu-Ray. Has anyone else noticed this? Is it a "feature" of the HDR broadcast? Is this what the big game will be like?
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I watched a few minutes of the Illinois-Michigan State game last night via the Fox Sports app on my TCL 5 series, which supports HDR and WCG. While the resolution looked good and the bitrate was stable, the picture seemed rather dark for my taste. I noticed the same thing with the last TNF NFL game (the only TNF game I watched). I looked at the HDR picture settings and nothing had been changed. All of the other HDR content I own looks great, whether it be streaming or Blu-Ray. Has anyone else noticed this? Is it a "feature" of the HDR broadcast?
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post #27 of 157 Old 01-03-2020, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I watched a few minutes of the Illinois-Michigan State game last night via the Fox Sports app on my TCL 5 series, which supports HDR and WCG. While the resolution looked good and the bitrate was stable, the picture seemed rather dark for my taste. I noticed the same thing with the last TNF NFL game (the only TNF game I watched). I looked at the HDR picture settings and nothing had been changed. All of the other HDR content I own looks great, whether it be streaming or Blu-Ray. Has anyone else noticed this? Is it a "feature" of the HDR broadcast?
No, it seems to be something particular to your TV/settings.

I have seen many reports over the last year or two of different Roku TVs having issues with HDR content being too dark - newer RokuOS firmware versions may have caused/fixed some of these. Not sure which 5 Series you have, but there's this:

https://www.cnet.com/forums/discussi...ture-settings/

"HDR Notes: According to my measurements the TCL 5 series was a mediocre performer (at best) with HDR10 sources. As noted in the review overall light output was a weakness, coming in at just 275 nits in the brightest mode (Brighter/Dark HDR; the Brighter/Bright HDR, confusingly, actually measured slightly dimmer at 246 nits). Only Dark HDR delivered an accurate color temperature; the other two (Normal HDR and Bright HDR) were severely plus-blue. None of the default modes was particularly good at following the target EOTF, and color checker was quite poor. In its favor the 5 series did OK in the gamut test, covering 93.6% of P3."

Might need to play around with the "Picture Mode" settings.

Verify your firmware version is the latest for your TV (latest RokuOS platform release version/build is 9.2.0-4806 - your TV may be different).

Also make sure you have the latest FS app: 3.23 (build 12639).

Otherwise, it might be the difference of external versus internal sources (its not clear where your "streaming" is coming from, but I assume the internal Roku apps). While in a perfect world external sources (e.g. 4K BluRay) would be treated the same as internal sources (apps), most of the time they aren't (slight differences abound and are not advertised).

Also not clear whether the other "streamed" content you are watching is DV (Netflix) or HDR10 (FoxSports uses HDR10). Some TVs have different settings for DV versus other HDR content, not sure if the Roku TVs do (someone else would have to confirm/deny).

You should probably also post this in the Roku/TCL threads and/or their respective support forums.
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post #28 of 157 Old 01-03-2020, 12:05 PM
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Hello,

4k is dead in live sports. There will never be a native 4k HDR live sports event for live TV. It will not happen. 8k is a pipe dream. Be Happy for now what it is as it will get better. What you see at home not matter which way you watch is not close to uncompressed content that is available right not. More important than anything is getting the delivery of content worked out so that its better. Not the resolution.

There are lots of problems and the lists are long and thats just inside the trucks that deliver these shows. You can only imagine the other problems.
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post #29 of 157 Old 01-03-2020, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by S5500 View Post
Hello,

4k is dead in live sports. There will never be a native 4k HDR live sports event for live TV. It will not happen. 8k is a pipe dream. Be Happy for now what it is as it will get better. What you see at home not matter which way you watch is not close to uncompressed content that is available right not. More important than anything is getting the delivery of content worked out so that its better. Not the resolution.

There are lots of problems and the lists are long and thats just inside the trucks that deliver these shows. You can only imagine the other problems.
Strange 1st post. That an in evolution technology that is happening, won't happen.
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HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
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post #30 of 157 Old 01-03-2020, 01:06 PM
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Thank you for responding. My model is the 43S525, which is the 2019 version. Cnet has not reviewed it but Rtings has. According to the latter, it doesn't get very bright in "dark" HDR mode, which they recommend as the mode with the best color accuracy. I have mine set to "Bright" as color accuracy doesn't concern me as much as overall brightness. I tried setting it to "very bright," which helped, but didn't want to leave it there since other sources can be uncomfortable to watch in this mode. I have the TV set to "quick start" which allows it to update the Roku software and apps while the screen is off, among other things, so I'm confident everything is up to date. I would have tried flipping between the Fox Sports app and FS1 via YTTV but my wife was in the room and I didn't want to deal with her eye-rolling at my geekiness. I probably won't get a chance to play around with it tonight, unfortunately.
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