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post #2011 of 10191 Old 10-13-2006, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by vazel View Post

It is interesting how some are reacting. And some refuse to see the political allegory, like they're in denial about their favorite show questioning their ideals. Reminds me of this stubborn guy that wouldn't see the allegory in one of his favorite movies, The Matrix (conservatives= machines, humanist liberals = human resistance).


An allegory in The Matrix???? I have never heard of such a thing. I swear...some people seemed to go to movies to be entertained while others seem to go looking for political agendas.
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post #2012 of 10191 Old 10-13-2006, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Actually I'm surprised there weren't people here on AVS offended by the parallels. Maybe they just have kept their mouths shut because of the censorship here...

They were pretty quiet last year too when one of their favorite shows, FOX's '24', featured a storyline about a corrupt, lying right-wing President who tries to gin up a reason to invade a non-threatening nation for its oil. Oh, the irony. Not one peep of righteous indignation about that storyline in this show that's a favorite of conservative icons like Rush Limbaugh and Clarence Thomas. It's like the plotline sailed right over their heads while they were relishing in all the torture.
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post #2013 of 10191 Old 10-13-2006, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bc022372 View Post

An allegory in The Matrix???? I have never heard of such a thing. I swear...some people seemed to go to movies to be entertained while others seem to go looking for political agendas.

Oh come on; you mean you didn't see the red and blue pills all over the place? Duhh, I think Vader was for red and Luke for blue...

"I knew you'd say that"...*BLAM!*
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post #2014 of 10191 Old 10-13-2006, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bc022372 View Post

An allegory in The Matrix???? I have never heard of such a thing. I swear...some people seemed to go to movies to be entertained while others seem to go looking for political agendas.

Some people like to think.

Actually I first read about The Matrix allegory in a Time magazine review and when I thought about it it made sense. Also consider the leftist Wachowskis. Some people don't want to acknowledge things like this because it's not in sync with their bias but if a conservative like me can accept it and still enjoy it so can other right-wingers. Some of the best TV and movies out there are from left field.
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post #2015 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 06:00 AM
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Based on the look on Tigh's face, I was sure that was going to be his wife's last appearance.
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post #2016 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 06:03 AM
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No one's posted about last night's ep??????? Didn't know cylons could dream, that was weird. Nice to see Ellen finally confronted about her betrayal. Baltar and Six sure do have a complex relationship. Adama's deception about Hera is clearly going to bring trouble down the road. Do we know how many people are on New Caprica?

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post #2017 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 08:04 AM
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I don't think Moore is trying to draw parallels between the American presence in Iraq and Cylons, but he is asking the audience to ask hard questions "What would we do in such a situation?" Would we resort to measures that we now find deplorable? I think it's clear Colonel Tigh is not the moral voice on the show. There really isn't one, but especially not Tigh who has repeatedly made bad calls throughout the course of the show. But you look at where Tigh stands now, and you understand how he got there, even though he's advocating things we find deplorable. That's what's great about this show. Nothing about it is so simple that you should say "Oh, they are criticizing the war in Iraq". No, just like they have done since the beginning, they are putting their characters in complex moral and political scenarios, where they need to make very difficult decisions, and they are asking the audience to shift their perspective in a way many of them are probably not comfortable with. That's why it's not that surprising that some folks have taken a really simplistic stance that the show is just criticizing the occupation in Iraq it's because the show is making them ask questions they are not willing to ask themselves, and they are lashing out.
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post #2018 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by drsimnal View Post

No one's posted about last night's ep??????? Didn't know cylons could dream, that was weird. Nice to see Ellen finally confronted about her betrayal. Baltar and Six sure do have a complex relationship. Adama's deception about Hera is clearly going to bring trouble down the road. Do we know how many people are on New Caprica?

It seems to me that Cylons have biological functions, which is why I find it odd that even they refer to themselves as machines. They bleed, their bodies can be killed just as easily as human bodies, they have sex, they get pregnant. This dream revelation is interesting, because it suggests even their brains function similar to human brains, and I'd always figured their brains were the machine part. What part of them is actually mechanical?
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post #2019 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 08:15 AM
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I've not understood why the colonials have not disected one of them. Doc Cottle must be learning a lot about Cylon anatomy since they have been bringing him Cylon wounded. (I would have expected that the Cylons would have there own Cylon medics but apparently not.) Anyway, as organic as the Cylons are, they still must have some parts like the glowing spine, the whole download transmitter, or the fiber optic interface that Cottle surely most have had the chance to examine.
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post #2020 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 08:37 AM
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A note about last night - anyone catch the line from the preacher about how it starts to hurt more and more each time he downloads to a new body? "First like a headache, now like a white-hot poker." An incentive not to die....very interesting...I wonder if there will come a point where the download will fail?

Also - if someone is up in arms about this show they need to grow up. There aren't any political judgments being made, they're just raising the issues in a creative manner and making you think about it from every angle possible. I quite enjoyed it and was impressed with how the writers didn't let it turn into their own political forum.

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post #2021 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by swamphhh View Post

I've not understood why the colonials have not disected one of them. Doc Cottle must be learning a lot about Cylon anatomy since they have been bringing him Cylon wounded. (I would have expected that the Cylons would have there own Cylon medics but apparently not.) Anyway, as organic as the Cylons are, they still must have some parts like the glowing spine, the whole download transmitter, or the fiber optic interface that Cottle surely most have had the chance to examine.

Last year, didn't he do an autopsy on Sharon when Calli killed her?
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post #2022 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 10:08 AM
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I don't remember, but are we SURE that Adama knows about Hera?

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post #2023 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 10:37 AM
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Does anyone else think that Hera and the mom will be captured as the fleet is taking off?

I was hoping that the occupation would last the entire season and use the escape as the cliff hanger. It looks like it will happen sooner than that, unfortunately.

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post #2024 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drsimnal View Post

No one's posted about last night's ep??????? Didn't know cylons could dream, that was weird. Nice to see Ellen finally confronted about her betrayal. Baltar and Six sure do have a complex relationship. Adama's deception about Hera is clearly going to bring trouble down the road. Do we know how many people are on New Caprica?

I'm suprised that after all her deprecation of humanity's Gods (plural), that she didn't question the source of her information. A human oracle she was led to in a dream, tells her a Cylon lovechild still lives...and she doesn't question it?

Have we ever seen this oracle before?

I'm no expert....so your mileage may vary
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post #2025 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Does anyone else think that Hera and the mom will be captured as the fleet is taking off?

I was hoping that the occupation would last the entire season and use the escape as the cliff hanger. It looks like it will happen sooner than that, unfortunately.

I for one am glad...this setting is depressing! Back to space!

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post #2026 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by petergaryr View Post

Based on the look on Tigh's face, I was sure that was going to be his wife's last appearance.

What else CAN he do? Is there any question that if it were someone else's wife he order them killed, or strap a suicide bomb to them? He is, to quote Ron Burgundy "In a pickle!"

And Jammer has likely been outed by Callie...interesting to see what happens to him as well.

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post #2027 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by vertigo235 View Post

I don't remember, but are we SURE that Adama knows about Hera?

I'm think we're sure--I seem to remember that he was present in the scene where Roslin hands the baby over to Maya.

Even if that weren't true, Dr. Cottle certainly knew and he's Adama's officer. I recall a scene where he's very pissed off in having been involved in lying to Caprica Sharon and Helo. I can't believe that he'd have done that upon secret orders from Roslin nor that Roslin would have dared to attempt to give him such orders, particularly after the fall-out from sending Starbuck after the Arrow of Apollo.

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post #2028 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Iteki View Post

I'm suprised that after all her deprecation of humanity's Gods (plural), that she didn't question the source of her information. A human oracle she was led to in a dream, tells her a Cylon lovechild still lives...and she doesn't question it?

Have we ever seen this oracle before?

No, we've never met her before.


I also think it's an important point about the painful downloads, I think that is going to become significant in the future.

How long have they been using the term "skin job" to describe the human-looking Cylons? My memory is a little rusty, but isn't that the exact derogatory term used in "Blade Runner" to describe Replicants"? Seems almost like a copyright infringement.
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post #2029 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Does anyone else think that Hera and the mom will be captured as the fleet is taking off?

It does seem that way, it's practically being telegraphed by the repeated scenes in which Roslin talks about how important she is.
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post #2030 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

How long have they been using the term "skin job" to describe the human-looking Cylons? My memory is a little rusty, but isn't that the exact derogatory term used in "Blade Runner" to describe Replicants"? Seems almost like a copyright infringement.

I've heard "skin-job" a couple of times before, most recently in the opener where the Chief and the ballplayer blow up that parking garage.

It's really no different than any other term which enters the popular vernacular after awhile. (I'm hearing "frack" more and more, even on Veronica Mars!) Also, it figures that since the colonists are constantly around Cylons for the first time and under their thumb, that derogatory terms for the enemy would arise; they always do as it's natural (if there's ever really anything "natural" about war) to try to make your enemy less than human. Given that, "skin-job" seems especially appropriate here.
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post #2031 of 10191 Old 10-14-2006, 02:34 PM
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The cross-pollination of terms like that is interesting though, and I agree, as terms like that go, "skin job" is on the mark.
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post #2032 of 10191 Old 10-15-2006, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

The cross-pollination of terms like that is interesting though, and I agree, as terms like that go, "skin job" is on the mark.


Pretty sure the first time I heard 'skinjob' was in season 2. The resistance on Caprica had coined the term.

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post #2033 of 10191 Old 10-15-2006, 09:39 AM
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I finally caught up on the last 3 episodes and I must say, I'm totally 100% impressed and all my expectations were met....the show is so dark, so gritty, so real. I love it. Unlike Lost, which really never meets my expectations, the writers at BSG can come up with these incredible storylines which just draw you in and make you want more...and more and more and more. Its some damn fine television

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post #2034 of 10191 Old 10-15-2006, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petergaryr View Post

Based on the look on Tigh's face, I was sure that was going to be his wife's last appearance.

If he where to kill her in front of everyone, then that would really be hard-assed. Could you imagine the other peoples faces. I don't think that will happen but would make for great television. I could see him really go off the deep end then. But unless she is being written out of the show, somehow he is going to get her back to the Galactica.
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post #2035 of 10191 Old 10-15-2006, 12:06 PM
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He knows she's betrayed him repeatedly in terms of adultery. This is betrayal of a different kind, but it did not endanger him directly. He somehow loves her so much that all is forgiven (in terms of sex). This will be harder to reconcile, given that it is tatamount to treason, but I wonder if he can really find it in himself to do something to her. To have her punished by other authorities (ie Adama) may be all Tigh can do.

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post #2036 of 10191 Old 10-15-2006, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by drsimnal View Post

He knows she's betrayed him repeatedly in terms of adultery. This is betrayal of a different kind, but it did not endanger him directly. He somehow loves her so much that all is forgiven (in terms of sex). This will be harder to reconcile, given that it is tatamount to treason, but I wonder if he can really find it in himself to do something to her. To have her punished by other authorities (ie Adama) may be all Tigh can do.

He'll likely use her to send disinformation to the skinjobs at the time of the resuce party's arrival. Only use for her really.

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post #2037 of 10191 Old 10-15-2006, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Iteki View Post

He'll likely use her to send disinformation to the skinjobs at the time of the resuce party's arrival. Only use for her really.

Excellent observation!
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post #2038 of 10191 Old 10-15-2006, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Iteki View Post

He'll likely use her to send disinformation to the skinjobs at the time of the resuce party's arrival. Only use for her really.

Seems like she has other uses as well....heh.

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post #2039 of 10191 Old 10-15-2006, 11:07 PM
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Seems like she has other uses as well....heh.

LOL only use for the resistance that is.

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post #2040 of 10191 Old 10-16-2006, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iteki View Post

I'm suprised that after all her deprecation of humanity's Gods (plural), that she didn't question the source of her information. A human oracle she was led to in a dream, tells her a Cylon lovechild still lives...and she doesn't question it?

Have we ever seen this oracle before?

I seriously doubt it but .....

Could this "love child" be Kelly (sp?), i.e., Starbuck's (alleged) kid?
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