Verizon FiOS HDTV - Page 634 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18991 of 19384 Old 08-22-2016, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
TiVo.
No thanks. Tivo = walled garden. Silicondust allows me to manipulate/save anything I want in the clear that's not DRM (e.g. HBO & Fox).
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post #18992 of 19384 Old 08-23-2016, 01:40 PM
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My FiOS story. I was a CV customer for over 20 years. As soon as internet was available, I rushed to The Wiz (CV used them as a pick-up for the modems). As soon as DVR was available, I went to the CV store to switch out my SA4200HD. For the last couple of years, I paid the extra $5 for boost (50/25). A no brainer IMO.

All this time I kept hearing from friends, family, colleagues how great FiOS is. I signed up for the email notification as to when they would enter my building. That was three years ago.

So late last year (November 2015) installation was complete! I was pumped. Sales teams arrived at the lobby of my building to start signing people up. I talked to a rep who asked me if I'm a sports fan. I said "Of course! Huge Yankee fan" (I live in the Bronx). He then proceeded to tell me that "I will see the stitches on a fastball going 100mph!" It took every fiber of my being to not roll my eyes. I told him I would take the literature upstairs and get back to him. To be honest, the conversation left me a little cold.

I decided to do this online for obvious reasons. Especially because if done online, you save install fees. At the time the current offer was a $400 VISA card if I sign a 2-year contract. For $129 a month I get 50/50 Mbps, Digital Voice, HBO, Showtime, Starz. The bill goes up to $209 for the 2nd year.

Once I got through ALL those options, I had to leave a $250 deposit that is refundable after the 1st year as long as my account is in good standing. More cold feelings. I call BS since there's no deposit required if I forgo the contract and the $400 VISA promo. I then decided to call CV to get them to lower my bill. Why not? There’s competition now. And they did by $50.

That was seven months ago. I decided to give FiOS another shot. And this time I got the deal I want sans contract, sans deposit and sans Visa card. No big deal. My wife would’ve just spend it anyway LOL!

What was the tipping point for me leaving CV? The Samsung MDVR. I was having a lot of issues with the SA8300HD that served me well for over 10 years. They suggested I go for the Samsung. Of course they do. It’s $4 more p/month. But I can record up to 15 shows at once with no conflicts. Sounded great! Boy was I wrong! It is an absolute horrible experience. The playback response is so bad I felt it was not worth it. So instead of going back to the traditional DVR, I signed up for FiOS.

I got the Extreme HD w/hard drive based DVR (non-Quantum), 100/100 internet and voice. At least the hard drive is 500GB. The CV one was 80GB I believe. Maybe 160GB. So it is a big upgrade. The biggest thing to get used to is the Guide and menu system. It is pretty daunting and a huge learning curve. It’s been three weeks now and I am still learning new things.

Believe it or not the speed does not feel twice as fast. I was getting 50/25 from CV. And it was pretty good. Also, I give the CV PQ a slight edge. You heard that right! CV called me the next day to try to get me back. I told them that I’ve been a customer for over 20 years and felt it was time for a change. I also said “who knows, I may be back”. He took it well and wished me luck. We shall see. I’m glad I’m not locked for two years. And my advise is to seriously consider that. A lot of people get seduced by the deal that requires a contract. I cannot easily be seduced…LOL!

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post #18993 of 19384 Old 08-23-2016, 02:54 PM
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No thanks. Tivo = walled garden. Silicondust allows me to manipulate/save anything I want in the clear that's not DRM (e.g. HBO & Fox).
TiVo is the best DVR ever made, hands down. Silicondust is interesting in theory, except that their DVR software in unproven (is it even widely available yet ?), and Windows MCE died with Windows 10, and was awful in the first place. In my case here in CT, we don't have FIOS, so I will probably be giving up my TiVo at some point in favor of DirecTV.
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post #18994 of 19384 Old 08-24-2016, 08:57 AM
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TiVo is the best DVR ever made, hands down. Silicondust is interesting in theory, except that their DVR software in unproven (is it even widely available yet ?), and Windows MCE died with Windows 10, and was awful in the first place. In my case here in CT, we don't have FIOS, so I will probably be giving up my TiVo at some point in favor of DirecTV.
There is so much wrong and FUD about your post that is hard to know where to begin.
  1. I've been using Silicondust HDHomeRun Primes DVR for close to a year. It has steadily improved and works well. Is it perfect? No, but it keeps getting better.
  2. I used Windows MCE for years and contrary to your assertions, many users believed it to be the ultimate DVR solution.
  3. Obviously you are a Tivo bigot without firsthand knowledge of other products.
  4. Finally, please tell me how I can save/archive copies of my recordings to external media without going through backflips. With MCE and now Silicondust, I can save/archive the direct MPEG2 files to hard disks or Blu-ray data discs for posterity. I'm not aware that Tivo allows you to do this in any form?
-CB
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post #18995 of 19384 Old 08-24-2016, 11:56 AM
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TiVo's best days may be behind them. Especially with Rovi at the helm. And so far the Rovi guide data transitions is a disaster!

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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
TiVo is the best DVR ever made, hands down. Silicondust is interesting in theory, except that their DVR software in unproven (is it even widely available yet ?), and Windows MCE died with Windows 10, and was awful in the first place. In my case here in CT, we don't have FIOS, so I will probably be giving up my TiVo at some point in favor of DirecTV.
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post #18996 of 19384 Old 08-24-2016, 12:25 PM
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There is so much wrong and FUD about your post that is hard to know where to begin.
  1. I've been using Silicondust HDHomeRun Primes DVR for close to a year. It has steadily improved and works well. Is it perfect? No, but it keeps getting better.
  2. I used Windows MCE for years and contrary to your assertions, many users believed it to be the ultimate DVR solution.
  3. Obviously you are a Tivo bigot without firsthand knowledge of other products.
  4. Finally, please tell me how I can save/archive copies of my recordings to external media without going through backflips. With MCE and now Silicondust, I can save/archive the direct MPEG2 files to hard disks or Blu-ray data discs for posterity. I'm not aware that Tivo allows you to do this in any form?
-CB
To be fair, I haven't used SiliconDust's DVR software. Maybe it's all great and amazing, and as good as TiVo. But I can directly address MCE. MCE is a nightmare. I had it for a couple of months before I gave up on it and got a TiVo like I should have in the first place. It is unreliable, the interface sucks, it's confusing as all get-out to change settings, and there are basically no good remotes out there for it, compared to TiVo , where you get the Peanut, which is the best remote ever made. I dislike TiVo the company, but the TiVo product is best-in-class, with the exception of the awful cable TV services it has to connect to, but that's out of their control.

Through TiVo Desktop, you can extract video and save it on a computer or other media, although DVRs really aren't meant to be archival devices. MCE encrypts their files by default as well, do either way you have to jump through a few hoops to decrypt them. Yes, with MCE you're already on the computer, but there are tools out there that make it relatively easy on TiVo.

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TiVo's best days may be behind them. Especially with Rovi at the helm. And so far the Rovi guide data transitions is a disaster!
There are definitely some issues with TiVo. They are also slow as molasses to add features, but no one else even bothers to compete in the space, so TiVo is still the best
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post #18997 of 19384 Old 08-25-2016, 06:47 AM
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It's even more pathetic for FIOS since cable is very bandwidth constrained. Cable could and should do more to deal with their bandwidth crunch, but FIOS has effectively zero bandwidth limitations, since they can use IPTV if they wanted to, which on GPON, has no practical limits for 4k, HD, etc, etc. FIOS hasn't even converted to MPEG-4 for most channels, and they've just compressed the channels more. Sure, cable is far worse, so FIOS has the edge there, but only by being less bad, not by actually being good. With GPON FTTH, they could be sending IPTV streams directly off of C-Band like Google Fiber is. They could also offer symmetrical gigabit to any customer that currently has the equipment for 150/150 or above installed, but they won't.



TiVo.
I hear you but the bottom line is that Verizon is going to only offer services that customers are willing to pay for and not what the capabilities of the technology can offer. I'm sure there are a lot of tech savvy customers like you who would be willing to pay a little more for premium services but the vast majority will not. As time goes on, i'm sure we will see faster speeds and IP TV. BTW they are now offering 100/100 mbs for the basic package here in NY which they just introduced recently. Having sold FiOS for about 8 years, I can tell you that for most people, 100/100 is overkill but I agree it is nice to have options for those who want to pay for them.

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post #18998 of 19384 Old 08-25-2016, 06:59 PM
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I hear you but the bottom line is that Verizon is going to only offer services that customers are willing to pay for and not what the capabilities of the technology can offer. I'm sure there are a lot of tech savvy customers like you who would be willing to pay a little more for premium services but the vast majority will not. As time goes on, i'm sure we will see faster speeds and IP TV. BTW they are now offering 100/100 mbs for the basic package here in NY which they just introduced recently. Having sold FiOS for about 8 years, I can tell you that for most people, 100/100 is overkill but I agree it is nice to have options for those who want to pay for them.
So their only marketing now is that they are NOT [insert incumbent cable provider here]? They should have differentiated themselves with gigabit internet and kept the absolute best picture quality possible, but they didn't do either. Now they have nothing to differentiate, so they are just another provider. They haven't used their inherent bandwidth advantage to keep ahead of the cable companies in a meaningful way. Even with QAM-based video, they could have gone to MPEG-4 entirely for HD with 4 HD's per QAM, and offered gigabit symmetrical for $70/mo, and cable would not have been able to even touch that. But they decided to just offer what cable offered, and just be basically another cable company.
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post #18999 of 19384 Old 08-27-2016, 07:58 PM
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To be fair, I haven't used SiliconDust's DVR software. Maybe it's all great and amazing, and as good as TiVo. But I can directly address MCE. MCE is a nightmare. I had it for a couple of months before I gave up on it and got a TiVo like I should have in the first place. It is unreliable, the interface sucks, it's confusing as all get-out to change settings, and there are basically no good remotes out there for it, compared to TiVo , where you get the Peanut, which is the best remote ever made. I dislike TiVo the company, but the TiVo product is best-in-class, with the exception of the awful cable TV services it has to connect to, but that's out of their control.

Through TiVo Desktop, you can extract video and save it on a computer or other media, although DVRs really aren't meant to be archival devices. MCE encrypts their files by default as well, do either way you have to jump through a few hoops to decrypt them. Yes, with MCE you're already on the computer, but there are tools out there that make it relatively easy on TiVo.
Yikes, not much of this is true regarding WMC.
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post #19000 of 19384 Old 08-28-2016, 02:27 PM
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Yikes, not much of this is true regarding WMC.
I've actually USED MCE, and I know how horrible it is. I also know how TiVo's archival process works. So yes, I do know what I'm talking about.
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post #19001 of 19384 Old 08-28-2016, 06:57 PM
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I've actually USED MCE, and I know how horrible it is. I also know how TiVo's archival process works. So yes, I do know what I'm talking about.
Be that as it may, there's still a bunch of incorrect info in your post.
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It's even more pathetic for FIOS since cable is very bandwidth constrained. Cable could and should do more to deal with their bandwidth crunch, but FIOS has effectively zero bandwidth limitations, since they can use IPTV if they wanted to, which on GPON, has no practical limits for 4k, HD, etc, etc. FIOS hasn't even converted to MPEG-4 for most channels, and they've just compressed the channels more. Sure, cable is far worse, so FIOS has the edge there, but only by being less bad, not by actually being good. With GPON FTTH, they could be sending IPTV streams directly off of C-Band like Google Fiber is. They could also offer symmetrical gigabit to any customer that currently has the equipment for 150/150 or above installed, but they won't.
Too bad people are not subbing to Google's TV Service (and not as many as expected to their internet service either). No matter how good it is, unless it makes money - the Company will cave. Just last week Google fired 50% of their staff that worked with Google Fiber because they are so far below what they projected.

Google is following directly in the steps of FiOS. They had the best product - but in the end, even with a better mousetrap, people did not beat a line to use the service.
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post #19003 of 19384 Old 08-28-2016, 11:06 PM
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Google is following directly in the steps of FiOS. They had the best product - but in the end, even with a better mousetrap, people did not beat a line to use the service.

because in the end most people only care about the bottom line- price...having superior HD image quality or fastest internet speeds don't mean much to the Average Joe
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because in the end most people only care about the bottom line- price...having superior HD image quality or fastest internet speeds don't mean much to the Average Joe
Which explains why Google Fiber has less than 200k subs after 2 years and was originally designed to have 5Million in the first 5 years.

When Google fires 50% of the Google Fiber staff, that tells the tale.
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post #19005 of 19384 Old 08-29-2016, 10:37 AM
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Which explains why Google Fiber has less than 200k subs after 2 years and was originally designed to have 5Million in the first 5 years.

When Google fires 50% of the Google Fiber staff, that tells the tale.

Well, for starters, don't install your cutting edge service in the locations that they did. People in those areas don't give a crap about the latest and greatest. You install them in densely populated "high tech" cities and you will get immensely more subscribers. I'm sure the "test cities" were chosen because it was easy to get access to be able to install the fiber, but it was a terrible idea for a business model. Google, of all companies, should know that.

Not to mention, they obviously didn't do their homework on how difficult it was going to be to get access to poles, etc. to be able to provide service to everyone. Of course the existing companies are fighting them tooth and nail, because they know most customers would switch to Google. Not necessarily for the "latest and greatest", but most subscribers are just fed up with the customer service that they are receiving from their current providers. Besides, people in a lot of locations are being raped because their provider has a monopoly in their area.

I'll take a fiber cable over wireless any day, but I really hope Google's wireless plan works out, because they need to be in the market. The existing providers are mostly terrible. Competition is good for the consumer.
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Well, for starters, don't install your cutting edge service in the locations that they did. People in those areas don't give a crap about the latest and greatest. You install them in densely populated "high tech" cities and you will get immensely more subscribers. I'm sure the "test cities" were chosen because it was easy to get access to be able to install the fiber, but it was a terrible idea for a business model. Google, of all companies, should know that.
Yes, Austin is known as being so far behind when it comes to tech

~53k Video Subs......amazing.

Voom had ~30k when it shut down....over 10 years ago.

Your contention is that Google can only work in Silicon Valley, which would make it dead before the roll out.

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Of course the existing companies are fighting them tooth and nail, because they know most customers would switch to Google. Not necessarily for the "latest and greatest", but most subscribers are just fed up with the customer service that they are receiving from their current providers. Besides, people in a lot of locations are being raped because their provider has a monopoly in their area.
You are making statements that facts do not back up.

As seen from the sub counts, most customers DID NOT SWITCH to Google.

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post #19007 of 19384 Old 08-29-2016, 11:07 AM
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You are making statements that facts do not back up.

As seen from the sub counts, most customers DID NOT SWITCH to Google.

Again, locations.

If their wireless model takes off and they get service into a lot more areas, we'll revisit this in a year or so and see who was correct.
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Again, locations.

If their wireless model takes off and they get service into a lot more areas, we'll revisit this in a year or so and see who was correct.
So according to you, it will only work in small isolated Silicon Valley tech areas.

That's not a business - nor mass appeal.

You are making the same excuses posters used to explain FiOS lack of success 6-8+ years ago. Even after expansion, it never had the uptake people claimed it would - and we saw Verizon cutback (just a Google Fiber is doing now).

Furthermore, this is the AVS Home Theater Discussion>HDTV>HDTV Programming Thread. And the Focus is TV.

Again, 53k Video Subs.

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post #19009 of 19384 Old 08-29-2016, 07:50 PM
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Be that as it may, there's still a bunch of incorrect info in your post.
Like what?

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Too bad people are not subbing to Google's TV Service (and not as many as expected to their internet service either). No matter how good it is, unless it makes money - the Company will cave. Just last week Google fired 50% of their staff that worked with Google Fiber because they are so far below what they projected.

Google is following directly in the steps of FiOS. They had the best product - but in the end, even with a better mousetrap, people did not beat a line to use the service.
I find it amazing that anyone would NOT subscribe to their internet. The TV is another story. Apparently their DVR kind of sucks, even though the picture quality is better than anything else out there. They also don't have the scale to put together the massive lineup that DirecTV has, even though it would be technologically trivial with IPTV.

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So according to you, it will only work in small isolated Silicon Valley tech areas.

That's not a business - nor mass appeal.

You are making the same excuses posters used to explain FiOS lack of success 6-8+ years ago. Even after expansion, it never had the uptake people claimed it would - and we saw Verizon cutback (just a Google Fiber is doing now).
The fact of the matter is that by any reasonable standard, FIOS has provided an ROI far earlier than reasonably expected, and is quite profitable even with a ~20% take rate. Unfortunately, quite profitable and a good ROI is not good enough for the morons running Verizon, i.e. Shamwow and McWireless. Basic math escapes these pea-brains to the point where they just see massive profits in wireless and can't understand the concept of actually building telecom infrastructure with a reasonable ROI, so the last ~35% of their customers that don't have FIOS yet will likely never see FIOS outside of a few parts of Boston or maybe Alexandria. If the idiots running Verizon had any brains they would have gone 100% FIOS, and continued with their plan to stop maintaining copper and converting people over to fiber.
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Like what?
Pretty much everything related to WMC.
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post #19011 of 19384 Old 08-30-2016, 05:39 PM
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Pretty much everything related to WMC.
Specifically. I actually BUILT an HTPC using MCE, found out how much it sucks, and then got a TiVo. The HTPC has long since been stripped of DVR duties, but continues on as a general purpose HTPC for web, photos, movies, etc, on the big screen.
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post #19012 of 19384 Old 09-03-2016, 08:43 AM
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We watched Eye in the Sky OD last night. I highly recommend it. It's a very well-done thriller about complex moral issues, in which both sides are presented in an emotional way.

Anyway, I had been dreading the audio compression/limiting that I've complained about here several times before. Amazingly, the soundtrack was unsullied for most of our viewing. However, it did pop up several times for a few seconds in an obvious way. It made me wonder: maybe the OD audio is not limited at all times, but perhaps only when network traffic requires it.
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post #19013 of 19384 Old 09-16-2016, 08:35 PM
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I switched back to FiOS after 5 months with RCN...I requested that they not give me the new Quantum boxes (I tried it and didn't like it- no external storage, no native passthrough option)...I thought the tech would be bringing the same old Motorola 7232 DVR box I was using previously but he brought the Cisco CHS 435HDC...any performance differences between the two?...might be my imagination but navigating the Guide and Menu seem slightly slower/laggier with the Cisco...should I exchange the Cisco for the Motorola 7232?
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post #19014 of 19384 Old 09-17-2016, 01:00 PM
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For those of us with 3D TVs, FIOS has blocked all the 3D movie offerings that HBO has been sending them since February! Even Comcast and Time Warner don't do that.
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post #19015 of 19384 Old 09-17-2016, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by film113 View Post
For those of us with 3D TVs, FIOS has blocked all the 3D movie offerings that HBO has been sending them since February! Even Comcast and Time Warner don't do that.
That's not good. We rarely watch 3D, but it was nice to have the option. I wonder why they blocked them? Maybe it takes too much bandwidth? I can't imagine many people stream 3D, so it shouldn't have much impact.
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post #19016 of 19384 Old 09-17-2016, 02:44 PM
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For those of us with 3D TVs, FIOS has blocked all the 3D movie offerings that HBO has been sending them since February! Even Comcast and Time Warner don't do that.
Is that something local(you don't list your location): There are a few 3D listings on HBO on FiOS in the Buffalo, NY area. I just tried one of them (Jupiter) and it is in 3D here.

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post #19017 of 19384 Old 09-17-2016, 05:15 PM
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That's not good. We rarely watch 3D, but it was nice to have the option. I wonder why they blocked them? Maybe it takes too much bandwidth? I can't imagine many people stream 3D, so it shouldn't have much impact.

Well, one movie that is available in the HBO 3D listing is SEVENTH SON. Since there was no domestic 3D Blu-ray and it's not even available on Vudu, etc...this is the only way most people can see it as it was released (aside from importing a disc). But FIOS has blocked it. Hard to believe that other carriers seem to have the bandwidth and FIOS all of a sudden doesn't.

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post #19018 of 19384 Old 09-17-2016, 05:20 PM
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Is that something local(you don't list your location): There are a few 3D listings on HBO on FiOS in the Buffalo, NY area. I just tried one of them (Jupiter) and it is in 3D here.
NY/NJ area and yes I have Jupiter...along with Coraline and Book of Life. But they've been there all year. What FIOS has blocked are all titles since...SEVENTH SON (as noted above) but also titles like MAD MAX, POINT BREAK, EVEREST, JURASSIC WORLD, IN THE HEART OF THE SEA, INSURGENT, and every other HBO 3D title released this year
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post #19019 of 19384 Old 09-17-2016, 05:29 PM
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NY/NJ area and yes I have Jupiter...along with Coraline and Book of Life. But they've been there all year. What FIOS has blocked are all titles since...SEVENTH SON (as noted above) but also titles like MAD MAX, POINT BREAK, EVEREST, JURASSIC WORLD, IN THE HEART OF THE SEA, INSURGENT, and every other HBO 3D title released this year
OK, when you say "blocked" you apparently mean that they have not paid the producers extra to license the 3D version.

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post #19020 of 19384 Old 09-17-2016, 06:51 PM
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OK, when you say "blocked" you apparently mean that they have not paid the producers extra to license the 3D version.
No. I got in touch with HBO and they confirmed that they were sending it to FIOS (as they were to all other providers).
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