HDMI over Cat5e problems and solutions, read before posting - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #481 of 502 Old 02-27-2019, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Ward216 View Post
I think it would be a lot easier if you listed what gear you have and what you want to end up accomplishing. No offense, but your questions are confusing w/o any context. thanks
appreciate the feedback ward.

I currently don't have any AV distribution, I'm still looking at best options. I'm just trying to understand, what is the latest in this space recommended. My goal would be to centralize, cable boxes for each room, appletv, bluerays, PS4 and provide distribution throughout the house, for a select 1 or 2 rooms provide full surround sound. Ideally I can even use it for PS4 and control with smart home hubs/devices like smartthings and/or alexa. I've started a separate thread on these details.

I was just hoping on this one to get an idea about the hardware being described and what is the latest which this forum has reviewed/used and recommends
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post #482 of 502 Old 02-28-2019, 06:03 PM
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Here's my recomendations:

1) install catt 6a cabling and cat 6a patch panels/ports.
2) buy a cheap HDMI extender from somewhere that has a generous return poilicy. If it doesn't work come here for assistance. Be prepared to eschange it for another make or model that may work.
Without any idea what you plan to connect (PC, consumer electronics, 1080p, 4K/30, distance, data throughput, IR return data, etc). My best advice would be to avoid a situation where you might need one of these, wifi and streaming video are way more reliable. Note, this tech doesn't change rapidly. There are only a few mfg's that even make the chipsets used. Any item that worked great in 2017 is probably still pretty great.

There's room for ALL of God's creatures...right next to the mashed potatoes!
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post #483 of 502 Old 02-28-2019, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ward216 View Post
Here's my recomendations:

1) install catt 6a cabling and cat 6a patch panels/ports.
2) buy a cheap HDMI extender from somewhere that has a generous return poilicy. If it doesn't work come here for assistance. Be prepared to eschange it for another make or model that may work.
Without any idea what you plan to connect (PC, consumer electronics, 1080p, 4K/30, distance, data throughput, IR return data, etc). My best advice would be to avoid a situation where you might need one of these, wifi and streaming video are way more reliable. Note, this tech doesn't change rapidly. There are only a few mfg's that even make the chipsets used. Any item that worked great in 2017 is probably still pretty great.
thanks appreciate the advice
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post #484 of 502 Old 03-01-2019, 01:42 AM
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HDMI over CAT, HDMI over HDBT and HDMI over IP have all 'moved on' since 2017 - though the demands of 4K UHD is such that all options now require some form of 'compression' to cater for the full bandwidth of 4K UHD with HDR, DV, Atmos etc

The reduction in cost of Streaming devices, the move to multi-streaming platforms on TV's and the move to BT control vs. IR for many devices has had a big impact on the 'Distributed Home' market which has resulted in far fewer options for the Distribution side and generally many of the lower cost options dropping out of an increasingly complicated market to address.

Distributing signals when you have differing capabilities in your Zones makes things doubly tricky.

I would start with a fresh sheet of paper, forgot about distribution for now (you may come back to it) and itemise out what you want to do in each Zone, the capabilities of each Zone, who will utilise each Zone and then weigh up Centralised vs Distributed Sources.

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post #485 of 502 Old 03-20-2019, 08:08 AM
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My home was built 4 years ago and my low voltage contractor used a HDMI cable which is the old standard (i think HDCP 1.3). However, i recently purchased a 4k/HDR TV and it is my understanding the old cable won't work and i need a 2.2 HDMI cable. The problem is my A/V set up has a brick wall and media closet and the old HDMI Cable was stapled to the studs when it was installed prior to the sheet rock being finished. As a result, i can't simply pull the new HDMI cable through the wall to my receiver and TV, even though the run is only about 10-15 feet. from the back of the TV to the media closet.


I'm going to have a 4k Apple TV, Xbox 1 X and Direct TV 4k receiver hooked up directly to a SonySTRDN1080 Receiver and connect it to a Samsung QLED TV FWIW.



My low voltage contractor said he can use one of the 2 Cat 5 cables he ran to the back of the TV and use what is called a HDMI Balun to somehow convert the Cat 5 cable and allow the data to flow to the A/V receiver.



Has anyone used this type of set up at their homes or are you familiar with this type of setup working?
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post #486 of 502 Old 03-20-2019, 09:18 AM
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A minor footnote to this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodane View Post
make sure you have a good return policy, covering even if you simply and SUBJECTIVELY do not like it.
I recently returned a couple electronic items, including a HDMI-to-VGA adaptor, that I hoped to use to feed an old Video projector, to a Walmart store, because I accidently bought the wrong items. (In the case of the cable, it lacked an audio output. It also didn't support conversion of 1080p resolution video to the 1024*768 mode the projector wanted, though it worked at lower resolutions.) I had cut the shrink wrap packaging open to try the cable, so I wasn't sure they would accept it. They did. They didn't ask for my reason, or whether the items worked. There was no restocking fee.

They seem to have a pretty good return policy. With a receipt, within the return period, you can freely return most things.

I haven't tried this on special orders. But that website says "Return items by mail or in store... Ship it back for free. It's as easy as logging in to your account & printing a return label."

However, it also says the same policy does not apply to Walmart Marketplace (items not sold and shipped by Walmart.com), so you might avoid those things, if you may need to return them:

https://help.walmart.com/app/answers...d/3039/kw/3039

Of course you may have to pay a little more than if you buy things through the cheapest eBay or Amazon marketplace merchant, and Walmart doesn't carry everything, not even on special order. But they do have have a few extenders:

https://www.walmart.com/search/?quer...dmi%20extender

(Note that some of them ARE from other other merchants, and would not carry the good return policy.)

P.S. My opinion: It's one thing to return something because it's no good, or doesn't work they way you hoped. But taking unfair advantage of such a policy in other ways could mess things up for the rest of us. So I suggest you don't over-use it.
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post #487 of 502 Old 03-31-2019, 08:28 AM
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My opinion:


Distributed video contractors have traditionally relied on expensive setups to get video into areas with minimal obtrusiveness.

Today, we have small streaming devices that can attach to each television, with a remote available on every smart phone. 4k+ can be had for $70, and no recurring charges to maintain it.

When 8k comes around, each TV and projector and streamer can be upgraded as desired.


The only problem is the audio receiver, and I think this can easily be addressed through HDMI over Cat5e. Unfortunately, it seems like projector manufacturers do not care about this as most projectors do not include ARC/eARC support.
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post #488 of 502 Old 05-13-2019, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barto78 View Post
My home was built 4 years ago and my low voltage contractor used a HDMI cable which is the old standard (i think HDCP 1.3). However, i recently purchased a 4k/HDR TV and it is my understanding the old cable won't work and i need a 2.2 HDMI cable. The problem is my A/V set up has a brick wall and media closet and the old HDMI Cable was stapled to the studs when it was installed prior to the sheet rock being finished. As a result, i can't simply pull the new HDMI cable through the wall to my receiver and TV, even though the run is only about 10-15 feet. from the back of the TV to the media closet.


I'm going to have a 4k Apple TV, Xbox 1 X and Direct TV 4k receiver hooked up directly to a SonySTRDN1080 Receiver and connect it to a Samsung QLED TV FWIW.



My low voltage contractor said he can use one of the 2 Cat 5 cables he ran to the back of the TV and use what is called a HDMI Balun to somehow convert the Cat 5 cable and allow the data to flow to the A/V receiver.



Has anyone used this type of set up at their homes or are you familiar with this type of setup working?
Yes, its pretty much the standard in most new installations I see in larger homes
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post #489 of 502 Old 05-20-2019, 05:36 PM
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HDMI cables are not Version compliant - there is a separate set of Certified standards (Standard, High Speed, Premium High Speed and the New Ultra High Speed) which apply to cables.

Until you plug in the installed cable you have no way of knowing of it will work (or not) with 4K UHD signals - 25' is where things get very difficult for a copper HDMI cable with 4K.

HDMI over CAT Extenders are a great option (if you have a spare CAT5, or preferably CAT6, cable you can use) Extenders based on HDBT are the best option, ensure you look for any Features you require (HDCP 2.2, ARC, eARC, HDR, Dynamic HDR...) the one drawback being they all have to use some form of compression for the highest bandwidth 4K signals (the manufacturers all claim they are 'visually lossless'.

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post #490 of 502 Old 06-22-2019, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
HDMI cables are not Version compliant - there is a separate set of Certified standards (Standard, High Speed, Premium High Speed and the New Ultra High Speed) which apply to cables.

Until you plug in the installed cable you have no way of knowing of it will work (or not) with 4K UHD signals - 25' is where things get very difficult for a copper HDMI cable with 4K.

HDMI over CAT Extenders are a great option (if you have a spare CAT5, or preferably CAT6, cable you can use) Extenders based on HDBT are the best option, ensure you look for any Features you require (HDCP 2.2, ARC, eARC, HDR, Dynamic HDR...) the one drawback being they all have to use some form of compression for the highest bandwidth 4K signals (the manufacturers all claim they are 'visually lossless'.

Joe
Hi.
My situation: after 15 yrs, swapping out old, pre-HDMI plasma and AVR. Got a very good deal on LG OLED 65B8, and a Denon AVR-x4400H receiver. The TV is wall-mounted about 15 feet away from a gear cabinet. The old TV was connected component cables. Unfortunately, the cables do not seem to have been run through a conduit, I cannot pull new cable, and the crawlspace under the room is not accessible (I went under the house; no good).
On the upside, the original contractor did run Cat5e between the two, so it looks like I can make use of that.

SO, I'm looking for connection solutions. It's been suggested I use an HDMI extender over Cat5e. Ideally I would like to use the LG for apps like Netflix, etc, so (I believe; I'm learning) I will have to be able to use ARC to drive audio from the LG back to the Denon.
Can anyone recommend a good 18GPS, ARC-able extender for this purpose? I am also open to any other suggested solutions.


Thanks!
Paul
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post #491 of 502 Old 06-23-2019, 05:54 AM
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ARC - if possible can you 'test' how reliable ARC and its buddy CEC are in your system using a conventional HDMI cable before you look for an ARC enabled HDMI Extender solution.

Assuming ARC works then yes there are ARC enabled HDMI Extender options - though they are not cheap.

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post #492 of 502 Old 06-23-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
ARC - if possible can you 'test' how reliable ARC and its buddy CEC are in your system using a conventional HDMI cable before you look for an ARC enabled HDMI Extender solution.

Assuming ARC works then yes there are ARC enabled HDMI Extender options - though they are not cheap.

Joe
Joe, as a temp solution, I have a long HDMI cable snaking through the room, directly connecting the TV to the AVR, and ARC works very well. I have not noticed and dropouts, sync or other problems at all so far.


Paul
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post #493 of 502 Old 06-24-2019, 01:33 AM
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Positive start - now to look at Extender options which support ARC, I would ensure you look for local support/a simple returns option if you were to hit any issues.

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post #494 of 502 Old 06-24-2019, 03:51 PM
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I'm also looking for an HDMI over Cat6 solution that supports ARC. A number advertise it but it seems to be hit or miss if they actually deliver.

I'm eyeing this one on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/AV-Access-Ext.../dp/B07HH1212W

I don't want to try it until I get everything else in place so I can return in the 30 day window. I'm a little skeptical as on another thread someone said that due to bandwidth limits of Cat6 you can only pass HDR or ARC, not both. Not sure if that is true or not. This one advertises both (HDR10).

My cat6 run is about 50-75 feet and I don't really have any good way of testing it with HDMI. I never knew replacing a TV was so much work...
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post #495 of 502 Old 07-01-2019, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ks_man View Post
I'm also looking for an HDMI over Cat6 solution that supports ARC. A number advertise it but it seems to be hit or miss if they actually deliver.



I'm eyeing this one on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/AV-Access-Ext.../dp/B07HH1212W



I don't want to try it until I get everything else in place so I can return in the 30 day window. I'm a little skeptical as on another thread someone said that due to bandwidth limits of Cat6 you can only pass HDR or ARC, not both. Not sure if that is true or not. This one advertises both (HDR10).



My cat6 run is about 50-75 feet and I don't really have any good way of testing it with HDMI. I never knew replacing a TV was so much work...


I highly recommend the AVPro Edge HDBaseT Extenders. The last I used them (November) the best model supported 18gps and ARC over simple CAT5e. (Though definitely use Cat6a for any future upgrades). Very reliable product. Close to plug and play ease. A little on the expensive side, but well worth it. Don’t think the chipset can support 48gps, so they probably will need to be replaced when 8k becomes relevant, but that’s a few years away. 4k isn’t even broadcast yet (except maybe by sine satellite service on select sports).


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post #496 of 502 Old 07-02-2019, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
Positive start - now to look at Extender options which support ARC, I would ensure you look for local support/a simple returns option if you were to hit any issues.

Joe
Joe,

For my situation, would you recommend the AV Pro edge AC-EX70-444-Kit? It's certainly not cheap. Is it overkill?

My setup: DirecTV to Denon AVR-x4400H to LG OLED65B8PUA. Audio is a 5.1 system. Not going to expand; smallish room.

Again, I'm looking for a HDMI over Cat5e solution to send a signal from a gear cabinet about 15 feet away to the wall-mounted TV. The original installer did not place a conduit and I can't access under the house to pull new HDMI or other cable. He did run Cat5e site to site; that's the only reason I'm mapping out this solution.

If I understand correctly (dubious), I need to run this: DirecTV box --> Denon --> HDMI/Cat5e Extender --> Cat5e/HDMI Receiver --> LG TV. I was also hoping for a setup that can handle ARC, so that I can run apps (Netflix, Hulu, etc.) from the LG and send that audio back to the Denon.

Do you have any thoughts about this plan and/or specific gear suggestions?

Thanks again,
Paul
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post #497 of 502 Old 07-02-2019, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bills4pmc View Post
If I understand correctly (dubious), I need to run this: DirecTV box --> Denon --> HDMI/Cat5e Extender --> Cat5e/HDMI Receiver --> LG TV. I was also hoping for a setup that can handle ARC, so that I can run apps (Netflix, Hulu, etc.) from the LG and send that audio back to the Denon.
If the HDBaseT extension solution with ARC support is more than $100 or so more than the non-ARC one, I would forget about ARC and just add a streamer box (Roku, AppleTV, FireTV, etc) directly to the Denon. The apps on the LG TV aren't that great, so going with a more mainstream streaming solution is an easy fix to the problem.
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post #498 of 502 Old 07-02-2019, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDiver View Post
If the HDBaseT extension solution with ARC support is more than $100 or so more than the non-ARC one, I would forget about ARC and just add a streamer box (Roku, AppleTV, FireTV, etc) directly to the Denon. The apps on the LG TV aren't that great, so going with a more mainstream streaming solution is an easy fix to the problem.
FlyingDiver,


Thanks for the suggestion. Forgive my ignorance -- 15 years since I've looked at any of this stuff: I assume the streamer box would connect to my AVR in one of the HDMI inputs, correct?


Paul
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post #499 of 502 Old 07-02-2019, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bills4pmc View Post
Thanks for the suggestion. Forgive my ignorance -- 15 years since I've looked at any of this stuff: I assume the streamer box would connect to my AVR in one of the HDMI inputs, correct?
Yes. On my Denon, one of the HDMI In ports is labeled Media Player. That's a good one to use.
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post #500 of 502 Old 07-08-2019, 04:39 AM
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As per Paul above I would consider a 'streamer' connected to the AVR as an option to using the TV streaming Apps - my own TV is only ever used as a 'Display' (I only send images to it) and never as a source device, my Satellite box, Streamer, Disc player etc all connect to the AVR.

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post #501 of 502 Old 07-20-2019, 07:36 AM
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So what was the final verdict?

I can attest that the AVPro Edge HDBaseT extenders are expensive, but worth every cent. They just “work” and work well. They also extend your ability to control and add additional Ethernet ports in case you’d add WAP at that location, etc. I’m sure a lot of integrators would agree. Stay away from the non-branded extenders and you’ll get everything and more with AVPro Edge equip that you’d expect from better brands like Atlona, Gefen, etc., but probably even better.

As for ARC, the AVPro Edge line has it, but I’ve always said the best setups have independent sources for apps, versus broadcast TV, versus physical media (BluRay), etc. in each of my zones, I have 4 possible sources for Netflix for instance. From the TV Apps, the TiVo Apps, and BluRay Apps and finally, from my Roku Ultra. I’ve learned that you use each device solely for its primary purpose. Therefore, I don’t need ARC, most integrators would agree. I chose Roku for my Apps because it integrates well with C4. You can chose your media player based upon your needs. There are a lot of comparison charts you can google.


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post #502 of 502 Old 10-03-2019, 02:14 PM
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This is amazing info. I'm currently working on a project for a long run of hdmi and I'll have to try this out.
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