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post #91 of 129 Old 09-23-2015, 08:25 PM
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Without causing conflicts. Tough customer.

That's why things like Control4 cost money. To do what you are asking takes R&D.

So one HC250 AND 4 SR250 or SR260. Especially if you want hard remotes.

Otherwise there are other alternatives but the hard remote makes your choices fall away.

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post #92 of 129 Old 09-27-2015, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Cheers.

Had a chat with the nearest Control4 dealer and decided that it doesn't quite suit the needs of this install.

I'm pretty happy with what I've got Sussed, and decided to just use 4 Harmony Touch Remotes.
After talking to HDAnywhere, there shouldn't be conflicts.

So I'm pretty much finished all the planning now. Just to wait until the install time, which could be about 9 months from now.

Again, thanks for all of your help guys, I'll post updates once the install begins!

Thinking of doing a video record too. We'll see!
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post #93 of 129 Old 10-06-2015, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have any experience with electric blind systems?

I am looking at a motorised Somfy system for the sunroom and Living room of the house.

The reason being that the living room has a double height space, and it would be good to have it automated.

Secondly, the Sunroom is a 3 sided square-ish room with a solid roof and glazing on all of the sides.
My client was recently at a friends house and was less than impressed with them going around the room lowering all of the blinds!

I'd rather install a mains wired system for perpetual functionality. No pissing about with replacing batteries. Especially in the Living Room!

Does anyone have any advice?

The client wants to use a SmartThings hub or a Loxone Server for other automation systems such as lights and door locks.

Due to its open nature I agreed that this would be a good hub system to install as they aren't proprietry like Creston or Control4.

Last edited by Falcon2915; 10-07-2015 at 02:20 PM.
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post #94 of 129 Old 10-11-2015, 05:13 PM
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Batteries tend to have a good life but it you can provide power. Do it.
Remember somfy and their hubs Can be hooked into control4 with the right driver anyways.

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post #95 of 129 Old 01-04-2016, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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A recent thought occured to me, in regard to the termination of cables in various rooms.

Do UK building regulations allow open back boxes for Low Voltage wiring?

If not, how does one get around funnelling a large number of cables into a 2 gang plate without too much fuss?
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post #96 of 129 Old 01-04-2016, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon2915 View Post
A recent thought occured to me, in regard to the termination of cables in various rooms.

Do UK building regulations allow open back boxes for Low Voltage wiring?

If not, how does one get around funnelling a large number of cables into a 2 gang plate without too much fuss?
Building regs do not regularly cover LV.

Don't think the UK ones do.
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post #97 of 129 Old 01-04-2016, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMHarman View Post
Building regs do not regularly cover LV.

Don't think the UK ones do.
Cheers, good to know.
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post #98 of 129 Old 01-04-2016, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
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Cheers, good to know.
A quick Google says that low voltage in Europe is anything above 50 volts.

For your own and future owners make sure the cable is in wall rated and properly labeled and you should be golden.
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post #99 of 129 Old 01-07-2016, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys,

Talk about pre-planning, the build hasn't even started!

I am however very grateful for all of your input, it's helped me to rule out a lot of potential errors.

The last few days I've been thinking about the spare HDMI input available on the HDAnywhere Matrix. There is a Nintendo Wii which would want to be used, however I've kind of hit a bump in the road regarding that.

Video signal is no issue. I can use a HDMI converter and I'm sorted connecting it to the HDMI Matrix. Same with the sensor bar, there are USB powered bars available, or I could just hack it myself for this purpose.

The real issue is the controllers, as I understand it, they function via bluetooth, and bluetooth has a limited range. If I want to route the Wii to several connected displays I need a way of improving the Wii-mote range. It could be up to 80Ft.

Has anyone found a work-around for this?
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post #100 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Speaker question,

As an example, I will talk about an en suite bedroom.

If 4 speakers are to be wired in Parallel, 2 in the bathroom and 2 in the bedroom, and both sets are rated at 8 Ohms, I take it my total impedance is about 2 Ohms?

But here's the question, assuming 2 speakers are 100W and the other 2 are 80W is this safe to do?

If so, what kind of power do I need from an amplifier? I'm looking at just a small amp that can be connected to an Airplay device.

Obviously, being a bedroom, it doesn't need to raise the roof!
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post #101 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon2915 View Post
Speaker question,

As an example, I will talk about an en suite bedroom.

If 4 speakers are to be wired in Parallel, 2 in the bathroom and 2 in the bedroom, and both sets are rated at 8 Ohms, I take it my total impedance is about 2 Ohms?
Assuming you mean two stereo pairs of speakers (total of 4, but arranged as 2 pairs), that would be 4 ohms, as only 2 speakers are wired in parallel.

Quote:
But here's the question, assuming 2 speakers are 100W and the other 2 are 80W is this safe to do?
Mixing speakers of different power handling is fine as long as you're not exceeded the power ratings, which you won't.

Quote:
If so, what kind of power do I need from an amplifier? I'm looking at just a small amp that can be connected to an Airplay device.
You need a 4-ohm-stable stereo amplifier. Anything that says it can support 4-8 ohms will work.

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post #102 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Perfect. Thank you for the quick response!



Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post
Assuming you mean two stereo pairs of speakers (total of 4, but arranged as 2 pairs), that would be 4 ohms, as only 2 speakers are wired in parallel.



Mixing speakers of different power handling is fine as long as you're not exceeded the power ratings, which you won't.



You need a 4-ohm-stable stereo amplifier. Anything that says it can support 4-8 ohms will work.
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post #103 of 129 Old 03-22-2016, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have opinions on using a UPS in an equipment rack?

I realise, that in this particular application, there is no 'need' for this kind of redundancy, but it may make things easier in not having to reconfigure the Media Rack from an unplanned loss of power.

I've calculated about 15 powered items in the rack, and so would be using rack mount PDUs, I was thinking 6 gang. Can one plug these into a UPS or is it not a good idea?

Do you even need a UPS for a relatively standard domestic environment?
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post #104 of 129 Old 03-22-2016, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon2915 View Post
Does anyone have opinions on using a UPS in an equipment rack?

I realise, that in this particular application, there is no 'need' for this kind of redundancy, but it may make things easier in not having to reconfigure the Media Rack from an unplanned loss of power.

I've calculated about 15 powered items in the rack, and so would be using rack mount PDUs, I was thinking 6 gang. Can one plug these into a UPS or is it not a good idea?

Do you even need a UPS for a relatively standard domestic environment?
It is often worthwhile to have any controller or machine with spinning platters on a ups.

The need for the DVD / BD player, less so.

Also consider what you might want to do in the event of a power out signal. Your conteoer May want to tell some devices to shut down. Send a message to you that the power is out then shut down.

To so that the switch / router / modem would need to stay alive.
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post #105 of 129 Old 05-27-2016, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all!

Thanks to your input and suggestions. I'm pretty much finished regarding the infrastructure! YAY! it has taken time, looking at different systems etc, but I think that I have determined a simple and cost effective system.

Below is an outline of the house as it stands just now. I've changed and swapped things a lot, from my first post, but I believe this works the best;

WiFi -

2 wireless access points produced by Ubiquity (PoE). These will be strategically placed to ensure maximum coverage and speed. (AC Standard) These will be connected to a standard BT Router probably. One that is supplied by the ISP.

Wired Ethernet -

All wired ethernet will be CAT6

I have provided for a 48 port patch panel in the rack. ( We have a 32U Dell Rack)


Bedroom 2

• 2 behind TV Location raised at mid wall
• 1 in Bathroom behind mirror
• 1 on wall adjacent to door


Bedroom 3

• 2 behind TV location raised at mid wall
• 1 on wall adjacent to door

Master Bed

• 2 behind TV location raised at mid wall
• 2 below TV directly
• 1 in bathroom behind mirror
• Include HDMI wall port

Lounge

• 4 behind TV location raised at mid wall
• 1 At Door for iPad
• Include HDMI wall port

Sun Room

• 4 raised behind TV location
• 1 in Roof for Wireless AP

Office

• 2 on wall adjacent to door
• 4 on left wall behind desks

Hall

• 1 in roof for wireless AP

Main Bathroom

• 1 drop behind mirror




Kitchen

• 1 in Wall iPad

Utility

• 2 at washer dryer location

Garage

• 4 Drops to attic space
• 1 Drop at Loxone Kit

Exterior

• 1 drop per camera location PoE x 4


Later additions:

Summer House

• 4 drops to summer house


Satellite Television

As the residents of the home require provision for satellite television, and the key is to hide all wires and boxes, RG6/WF100 coaxial cable will be routed as follows;

8 cables will be run from the location of the satellite dish to the central A/V cupboard terminating at an 8 port patch panel. In turn there will be a separate 16 port patch panel directly below this.

This second patch panel will feed 2 satellite cables to each of the below rooms;

• Master bedroom
• Bedroom 2
• Bedroom 3
• Livingroom
• Office
• Sunroom
• Garage (Attic)

The reason to run two cables to each location is that if one were to locally connect a satellite box (Freesat, SkyHD Virgin etc) in a room, they require two feeds from the satellite in order to record programs and watch simultaneously.


Terrestrial Television (Freeview)

Freeview Digital television is the secondary provision for the property, if the residents wished to abandon satellite television for any reason, over the air Freeview television can be accessed instead.

In order to achieve this, on the exterior of the building directly below eaves on a gable end will be a Digital Freeview aerial installed. This aeriel will feed a signal into the attic space where it will be split by a distribution amplifier. In turn, each of the single cables will be routed to the television points stated above.


Source Devices

In order to maximize utility and benefit from the structured cabling outlined above, an HDMI Matrix will be installed in the server rack. This device takes HDMI inputs from any source device and sends it, using the Ethernet network to Television locations (4) in High Definition.

The source devices which will be used are;

• 1 Playstation 3 for DVD, Blu-Ray and Netflix playback
• 1 Security camera DVR
• 2 Sky HD boxes

Residents will have the ability to watch from any source device they wish, at any of the television locations within the property. Furthermore, this could be extended up to 8 locations if required.

In order to compliment these sources, there is also a server PC mounted within the A/V cupboard running Plex media center. This will store and serve DVD backups, Home videos, Photos , Slideshows and other content.
This will be accessed at each television location using a miniature computer functioning independently at each location.

All media devices will be controllable using a Logitech Harmony remote, or similar universal remote.

Distributed Audio

One of the most important requests was for the ability to play music within the property, and for this to be a straightforward process. After much consideration, and research into competing systems, it was concluded that SONOS would be the most reliable and user-friendly system for the property.

A package of in-ceiling speakers has been selected to output the audio in all locations. Whilst all of these locations may not be used initially, having the wiring installed, and the good price of the speaker package means that there is a great deal of flexibility.

The audio zones are as follows;

• Master Bedroom and Bathroom (Zone 1)
• Bedroom 2 and bathroom (Zone 2)
• Bedroom 3 (Zone 3)
• Office (Zone 4)
• Main Bathroom (Zone 5)
• Living room (Zone 6)
• Kitchen/Sunroom (Zone 7)

To begin with, only 3 of the above zones will be active.

Zone 1 –
The Master Bedroom and bathroom will consist of a pair of speakers in the main bedroom and a pair of moisture resistant speakers in the bathroom. These will be wired together to a single SONOS AMP located in the A/V cupboard. Users can select music to play using any connected iPhone, iPad or other device with a suitable application.

In order to make volume adjustment quick, and not have to use an iPhone etc to change up or down, a volume control knob will be installed in the bedroom wall.


Zone 6 –
Due to the shape and size of the Living Room, it does not lend itself to in-ceiling speakers, therefore another solution has been chosen.
Mounted below the Television will be a SONOS soundbar. This solution satisfies two requirements, it allows better sound output for the television when watching, as they commonly do not have quality speakers, and secondly will allow music to be played through when the TV is not in use. Thus keeping the ecosystem the same.

Zone 7 –
The final zone will encompass the open plan kitchen/dining/sunroom area. This area will have four in-ceiling speakers wired to a second SONOS AMP. As with the Master Bedroom, there will be an in-wall volume control available.

In conjunction to the core SONOS system, an Airport Express will also be installed. This allows guests to play music from their phones, tablets or computers over the speakers IF they have been given access to the WiFi network.

A secondary audio system may be installed within the remaining rooms. As and when required. Considering that these areas will not always be occupied, a more cost effective solution can be implemented allowing guests to play their own music from their devices. This would be Bedroom 2, Bedroom 3 and the Main Bathroom. Guests would have NO access to the main house network, meaning privacy and opportunity for errors in the system are protected.

*EDIT - I have reconsidered this approach, and feel that a multi-zone amp would be better. At the moment here in the UK, the only suitable solution is the 6 zone amp provided by Loxone themselves. However, I know that multi source and zone amps are readily available in the US, e.g. Russound. I'm interested in finding out whether importing a unit would be cheaper. The Loxone 6 source/zone amp RRP's for about £600.


Miscellaneous

A few additional items are also to be included which will pull the whole system together.

Three budget tablets are to be installed in key rooms in the house, these being the Kitchen, Master Bedroom and Living room.
These will be installed flush in the wall and will allow occupants to control the heating, monitor CCTV, Lighting, Audio, Blinds/Curtains and security.


A Loxone home automation system will control lighting, security, heating and many other services within the home. These can all be accessed via the installed tablets.



So, thats the lot. I've spent close to a year refining and considering technologies to be used, but I think this is the best I can get.

I'd love some more input if you have the time.

Thanks for all the help!

Falcon2915
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post #106 of 129 Old 08-24-2017, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post
Assuming you mean two stereo pairs of speakers (total of 4, but arranged as 2 pairs), that would be 4 ohms, as only 2 speakers are wired in parallel.



Mixing speakers of different power handling is fine as long as you're not exceeded the power ratings, which you won't.



You need a 4-ohm-stable stereo amplifier. Anything that says it can support 4-8 ohms will work.

I've been rethinking how necessary it is to have 2 speakers in what is a relatively small bathroom, hence I have a follow up question to my speaker question.
If I install a stereo pair of 8 Ohm speakers in the bedroom, then a single stereo in the bathroom, how would I connect these to keep the impedance at 4 Ohms. Is this possible?

I understand that I need to take a 4 core from the amp to the bedroom speakers, 2 wires for the left, 2 for the right. How then can one connect a single stereo to this?
Is it even possible?

Cheers for the input!
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post #107 of 129 Old 08-24-2017, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon2915 View Post
I've been rethinking how necessary it is to have 2 speakers in what is a relatively small bathroom, hence I have a follow up question to my speaker question.
If I install a stereo pair of 8 Ohm speakers in the bedroom, then a single stereo in the bathroom, how would I connect these to keep the impedance at 4 Ohms. Is this possible?

I understand that I need to take a 4 core from the amp to the bedroom speakers, 2 wires for the left, 2 for the right. How then can one connect a single stereo to this?
Is it even possible?

Cheers for the input!
Install a dual voice coil speaker in the bathroom. Single speaker two tweeters wired for stereo.
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post #108 of 129 Old 08-24-2017, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Install a dual voice coil speaker in the bathroom. Single speaker two tweeters wired for stereo.
Just as a quick google search, something like this?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PWRC62-6-5...UAAOSwls5Y65-J

But it looks like it only has 2 binding posts?
Should it also be 8 Ohm?
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post #109 of 129 Old 08-24-2017, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon2915 View Post
Just as a quick google search, something like this?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PWRC62-6-5...UAAOSwls5Y65-J

But it looks like it only has 2 binding posts?
Should it also be 8 Ohm?
Binding posts on other side as well apparently.
Also it is 8 ohm. Two 8 ohm present a 4 ohm load. So a 4 ohm stable amp will be fine with this.

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post #110 of 129 Old 08-24-2017, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Binding posts on other side as well apparently.
Also it is 8 ohm. Two 8 ohm present a 4 ohm load. So a 4 ohm stable amp will be fine with this.

My apologies, I was just looking at what was shown in the images, nice of them to make it clear there are in fact 2 sets of binding posts!!

Cool, thank you for your input. that puts things at ease. Should be a pretty straight forward job then!
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post #111 of 129 Old 11-24-2017, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Evening everyone, after a VERY long time in planning the cable install etc, things are crystallised and the build is finally beginning just now with ground clearing.

I thought it would be a good time to run the cable schedule past some eyes to make sure I haven't made any glaring errors! I actually looked at my first post made on the subject a long time ago, and it's amazing what you learn over the course of a few years! It's definitely evolved.

Anyway, here it is, have a gander and, if you have any comments, please reply.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Cable_Schedule_Rev_6_13.11.17_UPLOAD.pdf (92.4 KB, 42 views)
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post #112 of 129 Old 08-18-2018, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Current rack build progress





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post #113 of 129 Old 08-18-2018, 02:08 PM
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Re: somfy blinds.
The wiring depends on the size and weight of the drape cloth.
The smaller motors are low voltage
The larger motors are 110v

We recommend the RS485 ones if you are using with a good control system.
Provides detailed positional status which at least for our automation system, can graphically show exactly how open each blind is (ie: 51%).

There is a calculator to determine motor size requirement.
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post #114 of 129 Old 08-19-2018, 02:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Re: somfy blinds.

The wiring depends on the size and weight of the drape cloth.

The smaller motors are low voltage

The larger motors are 110v



We recommend the RS485 ones if you are using with a good control system.

Provides detailed positional status which at least for our automation system, can graphically show exactly how open each blind is (ie: 51%).



There is a calculator to determine motor size requirement.


I ended up running Lutron cable. (2x16AWG + 2x22AWG). Which should cover LV blinds.


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post #115 of 129 Old 09-15-2018, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Re: Blinds

As said above, it’s Lutron cable at each location. No massive drops as it’s a small house, so I expect it should be fine.

I was thinking of either Somfy or SilentGliss. SG are good products.

All of the control will he via a Loxone Miniserver.


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post #116 of 129 Old 10-10-2018, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi all, things have come along nicely with the build, mainly down to having a great electrical contractor who understands the concept of integrated homes.

The drywall is in the process of being put up, and they, at my request will be terminating the PPs and maybe the local room outlets. Depends how far along they are when I go back.

I’ve been spending some time now sorting out the more tricky concept of VLANs throughout the property, and thanks to some extremely helpful guys on another thread, I think I understand the jist of VLAN tagging now.

There will be 3 separated networks;

Owner
Guest
Guest house

Some of them can interact with some devices, but not others. The owner network is ubiquitous.

Along with these VLANs, they are split into different SSIDs depending on who can access what.

I’m still working on it, but getting there.

What’s the opinion on the automation system? Should I put it on its own VLAN with allowance of tagging so the owner can access it from their network? Or just leave it in their network?
The owner has to have access obviously for control

What do you think?


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post #117 of 129 Old 10-10-2018, 11:57 AM
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Most residences the control (automation) system is on the generic LAN.
For more security, we suggest the automation system be on it's own LAN (along with the security system).
The firewall would need customized settings to allow the right users, on the right LAN to get to the info they need to have.
That setup can be complex. Someone who is good at networking would be needed (casual Wifi router installers need not apply).
We (Allonis) developed a four port firewall to do this as it took a few weeks of spare time to get it all working "right". For any given installation, the settings need customization however. But, the basis of the setup is there.

Things like VPN, open ports for HTML5, open ports for security monitoring, Power forwarding for external connection, DHCP vs. static vs. reserved addressing etc are some of the factors.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothtlk View Post
Most residences the control (automation) system is on the generic LAN.
For more security, we suggest the automation system be on it's own LAN (along with the security system).
The firewall would need customized settings to allow the right users, on the right LAN to get to the info they need to have.
That setup can be complex. Someone who is good at networking would be needed (casual Wifi router installers need not apply).
We (Allonis) developed a four port firewall to do this as it took a few weeks of spare time to get it all working "right". For any given installation, the settings need customization however. But, the basis of the setup is there.

Things like VPN, open ports for HTML5, open ports for security monitoring, Power forwarding for external connection, DHCP vs. static vs. reserved addressing etc are some of the factors.
OK, thanks smoothtlk.

I'm happy to configure the VLANs myself with no problem.

I was just wondering whether I should put the automation system on a separate VLAN.
Frankly, there probably isn't a need in this case.

I just wanted to know if there was a good reason to do so, as opposed to advertising what another company can do.
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post #119 of 129 Old 10-10-2018, 04:56 PM
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If you are proficient at networking, and if you are segmenting the system anyway, then you might as well put the control / security system on it's own.
It's just as important (or more) than segmenting the other networks.

But, as you know, once it's setup, you aren't "done"...when you add a new device to the system, then that device has to be setup as well.
Device meaning a lighting controller, a Voice hub, Etc.
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post #120 of 129 Old 10-11-2018, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Understood.

I thought it might be good from a security point of view to put the automation on a separate VLAN.
This system is called Loxone, and is run by a single PLC. So, all of the lighting and automation is run by the one system.
It addresses the items itself using a specific comms protocol I believe, and as such, none of the items connected to it go through the switches.



Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothtlk View Post
If you are proficient at networking, and if you are segmenting the system anyway, then you might as well put the control / security system on it's own.
It's just as important (or more) than segmenting the other networks.

But, as you know, once it's setup, you aren't "done"...when you add a new device to the system, then that device has to be setup as well.
Device meaning a lighting controller, a Voice hub, Etc.
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