Nuvo GC and P300 Compatibility? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 37 Old 11-05-2015, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Nuvo GC and P300 Compatibility?

My wife and I are in the early stages of designing our first WHA system. As it stands right now our needs are:
5 zones
Keypads in 3 of the zones
App based device control for the other 2
In-ceiling speakers

We both agree that the Nuvo Grand Concerto has some of the best looking keypads we've seen and offers more than enough for future expansion. So this will most likely be our WHA foundation.

On the source side, we'd like to utilize something for various streaming options. For this we are seeking help.

Nuvo will be the brand, because having metadata to the keypads is of most importance. The 2 options I've found are the new P300 and the Music Port. The price difference between the 2 products is astounding.

Other than hard drive, what features of the Music Port command the higher price over the P300?
If we went with the lesser of the two, will we still have metadata? And also have the ability to control volume, source,etc through both the GC keypads and the Player app?

I can find loads of information about the GC and its accessories and also the Player series and it's parts. But can't find information about cross platform functionality.
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post #2 of 37 Old 11-05-2015, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mindtrip1016 View Post
Nuvo will be the brand, because having metadata to the keypads is of most importance. The 2 options I've found are the new P300 and the Music Port. The price difference between the 2 products is astounding.
Well, first, to truly compare the two, you have to buy a $99 NAS box and four of the P300s - since the MPS4 serves up four simultaneous streams. But if you don't need that many (most of us don't), it's added functionality you pay for but won't use...

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Other than hard drive, what features of the Music Port command the higher price over the P300?
Four outputs at once, built-in hard drive, and keypad (NuVoNet) capability.

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If we went with the lesser of the two, will we still have metadata? And also have the ability to control volume, source,etc through both the GC keypads and the Player app?
No and no. We've been begging NuVo to create the product you're asking for, but it's not apparently on the roadmap. I'm working on a solution, but it will require a NuVoNet adapter (hard to find) to function.

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I can find loads of information about the GC and its accessories and also the Player series and it's parts. But can't find information about cross platform functionality.
You've found all the information about the cross-family functionality. Zero.

You can still connect P300 as a source to the GC, but you won't get metadata on the keypads today. I encourage you to email NuVo and post these questions on their Facebook page - the more they hear from POTENTIAL customers (and not just us existing customers), the more likely we'll get some movement...

Jeff

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post #3 of 37 Old 11-05-2015, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jautor View Post
Well, first, to truly compare the two, you have to buy a $99 NAS box and four of the P300s - since the MPS4 serves up four simultaneous streams. But if you don't need that many (most of us don't), it's added functionality you pay for but won't use...



Four outputs at once, built-in hard drive, and keypad (NuVoNet) capability.



No and no. We've been begging NuVo to create the product you're asking for, but it's not apparently on the roadmap. I'm working on a solution, but it will require a NuVoNet adapter (hard to find) to function.



You've found all the information about the cross-family functionality. Zero.

You can still connect P300 as a source to the GC, but you won't get metadata on the keypads today. I encourage you to email NuVo and post these questions on their Facebook page - the more they hear from POTENTIAL customers (and not just us existing customers), the more likely we'll get some movement...

Jeff
What sold me on the Nuvo GC was their elegant keypads (I have 14), streaming metadata. When Nuvo announced the addition of MCS and NuvoNet--- that sealed the deal. I eventually added the $500 Autonomics software license, as its GUI could stream Pandora along with XM and I was assured Spotify would be added soon.

Fast forward --- to today’s reality.

Autonomic has discontinued the Mirage (MCS) NuvoNet PC application, so there's no further development. Spotify support is not going to happen.... XM no longer works after IIRC Sirius changed something on their server side, and with MCS discontinued, no updates to clients were going to happen either.

Nuvo, in my opinion, appears to be stepping back from what many of us think is/was their main sales feature---metadata keypads: which begs the question, why should anyone buy an audio system that relies solely on custom apps and custom hardware? At some point premium/pricey/ low volume custom brands seem to be sold, go out of business, or hold a meeting and ditch support for their products.

A Sonos path, as a GC source, makes the most sense for those of us with “legacy” systems. Given Sonos popularity, price, and the fact the system keeps getting better over time with new features and music services added for free, why not? I added a Sonos Connect as a source, after XM quit working and am happy with it. I have read that Sonos has opened their API to third party developers so that should help as well. I’m no coder but I would be happy just to see the metadata from a Sonos connect on my GC keypads and that would be more than a P300 has to offer.

I know Jeff is working on it, and legacy GC owners look forward to a workable solution.

Steve
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post #4 of 37 Old 11-05-2015, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by stats View Post
What sold me on the Nuvo GC was their elegant keypads (I have 14), streaming metadata. When Nuvo announced the addition of MCS and NuvoNet--- that sealed the deal. I eventually added the $500 Autonomics software license, as its GUI could stream Pandora along with XM and I was assured Spotify would be added soon.
Exactly my experience and decision process as well. The $999 Mirage software + NuVoNet adapter (NV-MP was the 'bundle') and the great keypads with full metadata and control sold me. I bought the XM tuner as well, but ended up using my DirecTV set-top box (already as a source) along with some software bridging to get metadata for that, too (this is the foundation for my Player solution).

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Autonomic has discontinued the Mirage (MCS) NuvoNet PC application, so there's no further development. Spotify support is not going to happen.... XM no longer works after IIRC Sirius changed something on their server side, and with MCS discontinued, no updates to clients were going to happen either.
I have my MCS machine set to reboot every other day because Windows Update confuses it and causes one of the processes to fail (and Autonomic's auto-restart watchdog doesn't catch it). The update the MPS4 got last year was, I believe, a one shot update to deal with the end-of-life of Windows/XP.

Quote:
Nuvo, in my opinion, appears to be stepping back from what many of us think is/was their main sales feature---metadata keypads: which begs the question, why should anyone buy an audio system that relies solely on custom apps and custom hardware? At some point premium/pricey/ low volume custom brands seem to be sold, go out of business, or hold a meeting and ditch support for their products.

A Sonos path, as a GC source, makes the most sense for those of us with “legacy” systems. Given Sonos popularity, price, and the fact the system keeps getting better over time with new features and music services added for free, why not? I added a Sonos Connect as a source, after XM quit working and am happy with it. I have read that Sonos has opened their API to third party developers so that should help as well. I’m no coder but I would be happy just to see the metadata from a Sonos connect on my GC keypads and that would be more than a P300 has to offer.

I know Jeff is working on it, and legacy GC owners look forward to a workable solution.
I'm watching the Sonos developments as well. Keep those NuVoNet adapters handy!

Jeff

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post #5 of 37 Old 11-05-2015, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you, Jeff, for answering all the questions we had. I will definitely send an inquiry to Nuvo as a potential customer. This information that Steve and yourself have provided, seems as if the Music Port has been abandoned or soon to be replaced. The P3500, having only 3 zones, seems like an unlikely replacement for the GC. Hopefully Nuvo has something in the works for us seeking a higher end option.
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post #6 of 37 Old 11-06-2015, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindtrip1016 View Post
Thank you, Jeff, for answering all the questions we had. I will definitely send an inquiry to Nuvo as a potential customer. This information that Steve and yourself have provided, seems as if the Music Port has been abandoned or soon to be replaced. The P3500, having only 3 zones, seems like an unlikely replacement for the GC. Hopefully Nuvo has something in the works for us seeking a higher end option.
I've read that 16 zones are possible with multiple Nuvo Players.

New, unreleased XTS Russound keypad:



http://www.cepro.com/article/russoun...s_app/russound


Keep in mind it doesn't exist yet, so it may never will. It was announced February 2015. It doesn't connect to the music controller, but to the home IP network, similar to any tablet. So, you could mount any tablet on a wall in its place. I like the small form factor, but I would prefer 2 gang, rather than this single gang.

If you go with keypads, install them at thermostat height (~60"), not switch height.

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post #7 of 37 Old 11-06-2015, 12:39 PM
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If you like the MPS4 concept, it's designed and manufactured by Autonomic Controls, who have their own offerings similar to the GC and MPS4.

http://www.autonomic-controls.com/products.php

Their touchscreen KP consists of an iTouch mount.

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post #8 of 37 Old 11-06-2015, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
Keep in mind it doesn't exist yet, so it may never will. It was announced February 2015. It doesn't connect to the music controller, but to the home IP network, similar to any tablet. So, you could mount any tablet on a wall in its place. I like the small form factor, but I would prefer 2 gang, rather than this single gang.
They showed it at CEDIA last month (didn't ask about release date), but the price was a bummer (IIRC, $599 MSRP)...

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post #9 of 37 Old 11-06-2015, 02:11 PM
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I'll come in. I will tell u the gc keypads are bullet proof. Mine are 10 years old and have never once failed. I have 12. My music port has been flawless minus the first year when there were hard drive issues but that's all good for years now. I also have 2 iPod docks and the dual tuner which I don't use anymore cause times have changes. All in all I would do it again in a heart beAt the same way. Yes music port is expensive but it handles everything u can ever need I feel. I get all my metadata. I also use the app but only when outside cause my outdoor keypads are in my kitchen but I will say if I'm in the kitchen I use the keypad for outside vs the app. They are very easy to use. My wife figured it out on her own when we moved in. I never showed here. Very very easy to use. I have been in 3 homes with the wireless p series. Nice. App is nicer looking but it's nice to have keypads I feel. I'm also not a glued to my phone kinda person.

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post #10 of 37 Old 11-08-2015, 10:38 PM
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I'm watching the Sonos developments as well. Keep those NuVoNet adapters handy!

Jeff
Jeff, can you describe what means you are using to communicate to your NuVo outside the NuVoNet adapter? Is it a PC application and PC serial port? How is it different from plugging a PC directly into the MPS4 serial passthru? I dont have a NuVoNet adapter, so I'm just not sure how it works.

Thanks in advance.
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post #11 of 37 Old 11-09-2015, 07:02 AM
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Jeff, can you describe what means you are using to communicate to your NuVo outside the NuVoNet adapter? Is it a PC application and PC serial port? How is it different from plugging a PC directly into the MPS4 serial passthru? I dont have a NuVoNet adapter, so I'm just not sure how it works.
You'll notice that the MPS4 has two connections to the GC - an RS232 (the pass-thru) and a NuVoNet.

The way NuVo has built the system, if your device wants to be a "source" on the system - and therefore display metadata and have a menu, it has to be on NuVoNet. The RS232 connection is for remote control (and configuration) of the GC.

Since the MPS4 is also the back end of the mobile app (the only Ethernet connection in the setup), as well as four sources, it has both connections to the GC.

The NuVoNet adapter has the same two connections - NuVoNet and an RS232 pass-thru. If you have an MPS4, you don't need a NuVoNet adapter, because there's one built in, and there is an API to make the NuVoNet functions accessible over Ethernet.

My program can use either a NuVoNet adapter, or the NuVoNet pass-thru function on the MPS4...

Jeff

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post #12 of 37 Old 11-09-2015, 08:39 AM
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Thanks for the explanation. I've dabbled a little with the API using a Digi One and a program which just telnets in and starts issuing commands. It still requires a PC, of course.

It would appear that an alternative stand-alone approach (sans PC) would be to program a Digi Connect to read a Sonos box, and simply set the retrieved metadata to the appropriate source on the GC. Or one could use an Arduino as well, I would imagine.

[edit] how about the RS232 program port on the GC? Ever tried connecting directly? Some of the old radios have them as well.

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post #13 of 37 Old 11-09-2015, 09:57 AM
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Thanks for the explanation. I've dabbled a little with the API using a Digi One and a program which just telnets in and starts issuing commands. It still requires a PC, of course.
Yes, regardless, there is some CPU running software somewhere in the chain to drive the interface...

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It would appear that an alternative stand-alone approach (sans PC) would be to program a Digi Connect to read a Sonos box, and simply set the retrieved metadata to the appropriate source on the GC. Or one could use an Arduino as well, I would imagine.
Anything that can talk Ethernet and RS232 can do the job. I've got my stuff easily running on a Raspberry Pi or a Windows PC...

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how about the RS232 program port on the GC? Ever tried connecting directly? Some of the old radios have them as well.
That's the same control port. The MPS4 and the NuVoNet adapter both attach to this port for performing control actions (zone on/off, volume, system configuration, etc.). The Tuners have a different command set (and configuration software), and I can't remember if there was any functionality unique to that interface that wasn't available through the NuVoNet source menus. That may be the way you program the presets from software - as opposed to navigating the menu UI...

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post #14 of 37 Old 02-01-2016, 06:33 AM
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Yes, regardless, there is some CPU running software somewhere in the chain to drive the interface...



Anything that can talk Ethernet and RS232 can do the job. I've got my stuff easily running on a Raspberry Pi or a Windows PC...



That's the same control port. The MPS4 and the NuVoNet adapter both attach to this port for performing control actions (zone on/off, volume, system configuration, etc.). The Tuners have a different command set (and configuration software), and I can't remember if there was any functionality unique to that interface that wasn't available through the NuVoNet source menus. That may be the way you program the presets from software - as opposed to navigating the menu UI...

Jeff
Jeff, good afternoon !

I am from Brazil and I have been looking some of your posts about how to expand capabilities for our legacy Nuvo Grand Concerto.

I have a home setup with NUVO GC, NUVO Pads, NV-MP and MCS 3.0 SW (Mirage)... I use the SW to add Pandora beyond the MP3 library.

Question : Do I have any other alternative to have Spotify, Deezer, etc working with my system or with the MCS SW ? Or we will have to invest in something like MPS4 (Expensive HW and we do not have it in Brazil) ?

Thanks in advance for your support !!!
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post #15 of 37 Old 02-01-2016, 06:34 AM
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Jeff, good afternoon !

I am from Brazil and I have been looking some of your posts about how to expand capabilities for our legacy Nuvo Grand Concerto.

I have a setup with NUVO GC, NUVO Pads, NM-MP and MCS 3.0 SW (Mirage)... I use the SW to add Pandora beyond the MP3 library.

Question : Do we have any other alternative to have Spotify, Deezer, etc working with our system or with the MCS SW ? Or we will have to invest in MPS4 (Expensive HW and we do not have it in Brazil) ?

Thanks in advance for your support !!!
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post #16 of 37 Old 02-01-2016, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rmhochheim View Post
Question : Do I have any other alternative to have Spotify, Deezer, etc working with my system or with the MCS SW ? Or we will have to invest in something like MPS4 (Expensive HW and we do not have it in Brazil) ?

Thanks in advance for your support !!!
I'm working on a solution that will support the NuVo Player family, which will require a PC or a Raspberry Pi and as RS232 port. In order to support menus on the keypads, you'll need the NuVoNet adapter. I'm hoping to also support the Sonos Connect at least for metadata, and a direct serial link for the majority of folks that don't have the NuVoNet adapter...

I've at least got metadata working reliably from the P300, and I home to do some cleanup to get an "alpha" version out for folks to try...

Since you've got the Mirage setup, all you need is one of the NuVo Player units to get going. Once I post my code that is...

Jeff

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Question : Do we have any other alternative to have Spotify, Deezer, etc working with our system or with the MCS SW ? Or we will have to invest in MPS4 (Expensive HW and we do not have it in Brazil) ?
Oh, and since you have the NuVoNet adapter, you should also look at the CasaTunes streamer products - they have a NuVo driver, too. I don't know what availability in Brazil looks like for them, but certainly worth an email!

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Oh, and since you have the NuVoNet adapter, you should also look at the CasaTunes streamer products - they have a NuVo driver, too. I don't know what availability in Brazil looks like for them, but certainly worth an email!

Jeff
Jeff... That's all I was looking for...
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Jeff... That's all I was looking for...
Well, it's certainly not that simple... They have to add the support for each of the services - it's not just the matter of presenting a login screen - they have to "do" something after that! And while many software products do add more functionality for free over time, there are IRS regulations that discourage that behavior these days, and we should never expect a product to "do more than we paid for" later... But yes, it's nice when it happens!

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Well, it's certainly not that simple... They have to add the support for each of the services - it's not just the matter of presenting a login screen - they have to "do" something after that! And while many software products do add more functionality for free over time, there are IRS regulations that discourage that behavior these days, and we should never expect a product to "do more than we paid for" later... But yes, it's nice when it happens!
This is correct Jeff ... Definitely I'm aware that there's a whole programming behind the login... also we have the regulation of the use of services.

But at some point, I feel that we were abandoned regarding to the natural evolution Nuvo / Legrand should have provided us ...

Question : Any other alternative (HW / SW) that we could plug into our NuvoNet to provide Deezer or Spotify ?
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post #21 of 37 Old 07-21-2016, 10:14 AM
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any updates on this? Just trying to see what direction to take before I buy a p300, as I already have a nuvo net adapter.
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post #22 of 37 Old 07-21-2016, 10:15 AM
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any other threads available for advice on this?
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sorry for the double post...
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any updates on this? Just trying to see what direction to take before I buy a p300, as I already have a nuvo net adapter.
If you have a PC or a Raspberry Pi (to run the Python program) I have something that's not complete (meaning I need to really do error handling and finish the project up), but does work. The software grabs metadata from the P300 and pushes it through the NuVoNet adapter to the GC. It will currently allow for music service browsing (Pandora, Intennet Radio both work) via the keypads. Limitations right now are the inability to go more than one menu level deep (so no music library browsing), and general stability (that error checking, etc.)... I'll also be adding the ability to work without the NuVoNet adapter to just get metadata (no menu/browsing), and I'd also like to add Sonos support.

If you're at all curious and have some tolerance for faulty software that may need to get restarted "daily" (-ish), I suppose I can make my current version available on Github. And I also suppose at this point, if anyone wants to help, I've done most of the "hard" work, the rest is simple for anyone more Python-capable than I am (this is my first Python program - I used it to learn the language).

Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
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post #25 of 37 Old 07-23-2016, 01:14 PM
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Thanks Jeff...I think I'll probably just go ahead and get the p300 and use it via iphone until you get the bugs worked out of it I just got a GC expander and really like de-cluttering my audio closet from all of the passive amps I had before plus I always always had problems using other brand amps on the passive zones and getting the signal sensing to turn off/on to work well with the nuvo GC so I'm done with that finally. Any tricks on how to be able to control volume on a particular zone via iphone once that zone is selected from the keypad? Thanks and if you ever feel like kicking ideas around or having me trial some software for ya, feel free to give me a shout. Easier to talk via phone in more detail (if so just pm me your cell and i'll shout at you) THanks, Aaron
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post #26 of 37 Old 07-23-2016, 01:15 PM
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Also, thanks so much for trying to figure out a fix for us guys that don't want to ditch the whole GC setup...I like having my keypads
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post #27 of 37 Old 09-16-2016, 04:22 AM
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So....what's this P30 Touch Panel all about?

https://t.co/kh2sfDYVYm

My Area: Sony XBR65X850E / Marantz NR1608 / Polk Speakers / Xbox One X / PS4 Pro | Dining Room: Samsung UN55LS03N ("The Frame" 2018) | Bedroom: TCL 49S405 (Roku TV)
Nuvo Player Portfolio Whole-Home Audio System (P4300, P200, P10 keypad, P30 tablet)
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post #28 of 37 Old 09-16-2016, 04:51 PM
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So....what's this P30 Touch Panel all about?
The best news to come out for the NuVo line!

I'm still at CEDIA and will post more later, but this is a wall mounted, PoE powered 7" Android based touch panel. Runs the NUVo Player app but can run others as well - so a lot of potential.

Should be available in 4Q for around $349 MSRP. Easy to mount over a 1 or 2 gang box or hole.

NuVo also has an upgraded 3-zone P4300 Professional Player with a front panel display for setup, better amps and some other features I can't remember.

I'll upload some images of the P30 later but it's just a black rectangle as you'd expect...

Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
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post #29 of 37 Old 09-17-2016, 02:57 PM
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The new P30 wall-mount touchscreen, next to the existing P10 keypad.



Back of the P30 - there's a simple frame to screw to the wall, and the protrusion is smaller than a single-gang opening. This will help with placement over existing double-gang keypad locations, as you can place several inches off-center in either direction. That was my concern with the larger touchscreen - I have one or two places where the existing keypad is next to a light switch (side-by-side, not over/under).


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post #30 of 37 Old 09-19-2016, 04:55 AM
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Thanks; so it's a tablet running the Player app basically? I guess that makes sense, and it's nicer than having to find a good looking bracket to wall-mount any other tablet. I could use 1 in the main area kitchen/dining room where most of our music activity is.

My Area: Sony XBR65X850E / Marantz NR1608 / Polk Speakers / Xbox One X / PS4 Pro | Dining Room: Samsung UN55LS03N ("The Frame" 2018) | Bedroom: TCL 49S405 (Roku TV)
Nuvo Player Portfolio Whole-Home Audio System (P4300, P200, P10 keypad, P30 tablet)
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